R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

[RaidaTheBlade]

Interested in seeing Jedi_Knight's list still, but I like the idea of throwing in yp$ and having kinda a pyro-sligh style...

The current pyro-rakdos lists that the pyrored thread has go real cheap on the mana curve. I'd like to see something a bit more like the old pyrodragons build. Kinda our creature base, with exavas and some number of dragons for the hardy topend, but with young-pyro and spells to get value early-game and also hold off aggressive decks.


The big question would boil down to whether there would be any reason to play something like that over boros burn, which would have to be conclusions drawn from testing...

But I definitely am intrigued.

[magicdownunder]

It comes down to play style, lots of burn's intense wins come from your ability too manipulate your deck and manage your resources (life totals and spells) thus making it slightly harder to play well.

RB however provides you with tons of powerful lines of plays which can win on its own (its more about casting a creature and killing everything which gets in its way - this is arguably easier too do) but since its a fair deck your opp. can interact with you . If you like creatures Rw, RB, Rb or Br aggro are def. fun and great choices just don't expect "freewins" you have for fight for everything.

[Midnight_v]

So... I'm torn between this and burn for dallas this weekend. I wonder how the matchups vs the field look. I'm in dallas and I'm seeing alot of fiendslayer being tossed about both in the main and in the side, as we get closer. Its really hard to decide between running spike jesters and running warleaders helix and friends. I just want to put on a good showing.

[Midnight_v]

So... I'm torn between this and burn for dallas this weekend. I wonder how the matchups vs the field look. I'm in dallas and I'm seeing alot of fiendslayer being tossed about both in the main and in the side, as we get closer. Its really hard to decide between running spike jesters and running warleaders helix and friends. I just want to put on a good showing.

[deck] 7 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
3 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
3 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Temple of Malice
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Searing Blood
SB: 2 Lifebane Zombie
SB: 2 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 3 Doom Blade
SB: 4
Skullcrack
SB: 1 Dreadbore
SB: 3 Searing Blood
[/deck]

Thinking about taking this to Dallas/Ft.Worth. Please help, gents? I'm kinda own my own I guess, but if someone can say "stop being stupid and run XYZ' at least. I dont' know if I'm missing anything. Like do I need answers to Fiendslayer or re-animator or... I don't know what.

[LP, of the Fires]

Stop Being Stupid and Run Burn.

[magicdownunder]

Stop Being Stupid and Run Burn.

Pretty much, this would of been different if burn hasn't exploded on the scene - but now that it has its not a good idea to leave yourself open for free losses.

That said here is a list which took a GPT in Australia (yeah... yeah... I know the Australian paper magic scene is bad):

[deck]Mrow 2nd place GTP Australia[/deck]

Xathrid Necromancer gives you a fighting chance against burn, all the 1 drops lets you get around BO and Mogis's Marauder helps you push through.

.....Do I think the above list is great? No... no I don't.... its missing critical cards like thoughtseize, its running trash like Rakdos Charm and it has ZERO dark Betrayals in a meta where Bx is still consider the best deck in the format.

[Tyrael]

Seems like Thoughtseize + Necro would give you a decent matchup fighting chance vs burn

I've been able to play with a friend's W/B humans deck and it were exactly those two cards that helped me grind out games vs opposing burn decks

[Midnight_v]

Stop Being Stupid and Run Burn.

Pretty much, this would of been different if burn hasn't exploded on the scene - but now that it has its not a good idea to leave yourself open for free losses.

Well thank you for that demoralizing insight.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've been a great help

[Valdarith]

He's right though. Decks like Rb are fine to run at FNM or IQs but at a big tournament just play what's good and proven. It's probably in your comfort zone which is a nice bonus. It's not like someone is telling you to play Esper.

[Tyrael]

Everyone is building decks specifically to beat Esper at the moment so I think that would be a bad idea regardless

[Jedi_Knight]

I respectfully disagree. Play the thing you know how to play - if you have enough matches under your belt, RB works. We're soft to burn, that much is true, but we have an excellent Monsters and Esper matchup. MBC is even. I haven't played a paper tourney since the PTQ (I plan to do since I've finally moved out) and my online winrate is currently 58% out of 300+ games.

Point being: since the next set is just around the corner, you can either experiment or play what you know. As I don't have any PTQs or bigger Type 2 tournies coming and my winrate with Burn is much lower than with RB, I see no reason to switch just about now. That is me though: I hate playing mirrorrs. In every card game I currently play (that would be Hearthstone and SWLCG) I do prefer decks that has the element of surprise. Be it Imperial Navy aggro, Druid Murlock blitz or RB.

I am planning on doing the BotG qualifiers with RB. The first one went 3-2
after a terrible mistake on my part when I was 3-1. Didn't have enough alcohol to do it right.

On the other hand what was said is true to a certain extent: this deck is currently not T1. It may have been able to do T1,5 but with Burn on the rampage you have to expect to get many losses by few hitpoints here and there. But as we have seen a pilot good enough can break the meta even with a subpar deck.

[Guttler]

I was on the RB train for the longest time, but found myself switching to burn too recently.

I loved Rakdos at the start of the season due to it's ability to just play control against G/R, which was everywhere, but as the season dragged out I found myself being forced to play against a ever growing number of the unholy trinity of standard; BBoV, MoW, and Sphinx Rev. The biggest problem with creature aggro and red in general in todays standard is that there exist an array of very popular very powerful cards that you just fold to. (Really hoping I don't see a 5-drop aggro killer in JOU previews.)

I have no big standard events for the rest of this standard season, so my plan is just to work on my burn game. I've never played a strait burn deck, usually just going with creature aggro, I noticed myself making small but important mistakes with burn, this is something I'd like to iron out now incase I end up playing it
until october or burn in another format.

[magicdownunder]

I respectfully disagree. Play the thing you know how to play - if you have enough matches under your belt, RB works. We're soft to burn, that much is true, but we have an excellent Monsters and Esper matchup. MBC is even. I haven't played a paper tourney since the PTQ (I plan to do since I've finally moved out) and my online winrate is currently 58% out of 300+ games.

Point being: since the next set is just around the corner, you can either experiment or play what you know. As I don't have any PTQs or bigger Type 2 tournies coming and my winrate with Burn is much lower than with RB, I see no reason to switch just about now. That is me though: I hate playing mirrorrs. In every card game I currently play (that would be Hearthstone and SWLCG) I do prefer decks
that has the element of surprise. Be it Imperial Navy aggro, Druid Murlock blitz or RB.

I am planning on doing the BotG qualifiers with RB. The first one went 3-2 after a terrible mistake on my part when I was 3-1. Didn't have enough alcohol to do it right.

On the other hand what was said is true to a certain extent: this deck is currently not T1. It may have been able to do T1,5 but with Burn on the rampage you have to expect to get many losses by few hitpoints here and there. But as we have seen a pilot good enough can break the meta even with a subpar deck.

Solid advice, burn is the only reason why I moved away from Rb Aggro as well.

Burn isn't for everyone since you tend to make or break your games off your "scry" which makes its a difficult deck to play if you have little experience with the deck or lack that deep knowledge of the other archetypes (you really need to know what
you want from your scrys).

If you DON'T care about the burn MU or you think the burn players in your area are horrible (most burn players are) then go for it

[Jedi_Knight]

Deck preferences aside, this is where I am at with SB:

[deck]Sideboard for Qualifiers[/deck]

Not happy with the following: 1x Mortars, 1x Skullcrack, 1x Dark Betrayal. I do have to improve the MBc matchup though so DB can be justified. If anyone can think of a card more useful than the other two mentioned (by useful I mean uasble in more matchups than either aggro/monsters or burn/control) I would be glad. I am all up for trying crazy shit... after all guys (or zem, not to hurt his pride ) came up with Spark Trooper and it worked so if there is anything crazy like that in our colors, bring it on!

Wild Ricochet is one example of a card like that.

[Jedi_Knight]

And the latest news: fucked up another match (this time U devo) because frankly playing at midnight is not good for my brain. Still 2-1 in qualifier, so let's hope I meet someone much dumber than me right now.

How did I fuck up? Forgot that if I want something with Specter attacking, I gotta put the bullshit on top of the library and the card I want under that (talking about Jet scry ofc). Ofc I automatically put the shit on the bottom as always and then I stared at the single LS that could have been used to get rid of the Specter for 2 minutes thinking what kind of idiot I am...

[magicdownunder]

Hmmmmm.... what are you trying to beat?

Devour Flesh answers Hexproof and helps vs burn so you could run those, RR is also good vs Burn and aggro-control decks (but no one plays those anymore).

If Blue or midrange is causing you problem Pack Rats from the sideboard could be really fun.... really really fun >:).

[Aodh]

Child of Night > Burn

[Toddington]

Child of Night > Burn

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Have you tested it?

[Aodh]

Just some Cockatrice testing and it was pretty sick. Made the match-up less bad. It was a 3-4 of in my SB for my MBA deck that I ended up not playing at the GP. It's better than Gift of Orzhova since it's cheaper and doesn't set you up for 2-for-1's and better than Whip of Erebos since it's cheaper and works on its own. I think it's our best bet also since it's a bear that furthers our gameplan while making them question theirs.

[Toddington]

Bestowing it in MBA seems legit, I guess some Dos Rakis lists have played Herald? It's super bad against YP$.

[Darth B8R]

This is kinda outa nowhere but what happened to the Dos Packis lists that were floating around on this thread? They looked promising. Was it the printing of Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow that got people down on the Rat? It just seems like with Rat + Phoenix + Tymaret there's a lot going on there worth investigating.

Anyone still rocking the Rat?

[Midnight_v]

I've been a great help

Yeah I decided not to go because of you and MDU's advice.
I felt like I'd prepared myself for playing R/B aggro but I did take a look at playing burn for those days before.

I personally was much better with the aggro deck, not being comfortable with a deck is a recipe for disaster.
Though to be sure i did learn what was WRONG with it, also why burn is good in this enviorn even if no one tells you.

Burn works because it has not problem beating 12+removal.dec. Doesn't care overly much about desecration demon, and by the time someone plays BBOV they've already almost lost (depending). Thats Esper,B/W, and MBD...
B/
R kinda has a lot of the same weakness as Burn but a different set of strengths, not that they're not considerable but the popular decks right now CAN produce a day of bad matchups. In the end I decided I'd just prepare myself more fully for the next big paper event. *Shrug*.
Even being skilled at it, I'd like it to have another B/R aggro power-card or 2.

[magicdownunder]

I think its good you know your enemy (burn) and your limitations.

Right now I think the best approach too aggro would be Ux Devotion (is Ux Devotion aggro?) and RDW (though RDW has consistency issues).

[Midnight_v]

That naya deck might be a problem though. Enough even to make this viable again, depending on what we get.

[Pedros]

After they print new City of Brass we should go again and braintorm which agro deck is best. Mostly decks that need to have solid 2 colors such as GW, RB or WB.

[Tyrael]

Considering that the only thing that was holding G/W aggro from being a tier one deck was their flimsy mana base, they might just come out on top

[zenbitz]

Child of Night > Burn

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Have you tested it?

Not to be too sarcastic... but doesn't burn main deck 20 answers to an x/1? Not including searing blood or firedancer? You make him burn a jet or shock? It doesn't even have haste...

[Aodh]

Better a 2/1 with lifelink on 2 than a 3/1 that peeks on 3. It's certainly not good, but it's better than subjecting yourself to a 2-for-1 a la wings.

[Jedi_Knight]

Child of Night is not a card worth SB slot. Sure, it is more useful than LBZ but replacing a piss poor card matchup wise with a terrible card won't bring us the victory. We might as well go second Whip in SB.

Tried the Devours, they sure help with Hexproof. Against burn... Well, better than other options.

Qualified for champs after waiting whole day for qualifier to start. Made 4_0 and split battling... Well, not really good players. But I honestly couldn't care less since the result is there.

All in all, deck lost it's power with GRx on the downlow. Just sticking with it since I need to regain my tickets. The list will be posted tommorrow on wotc page I guess.

In other news... It may be time to move away from LBZ. Suggestions as to what to replace it with?

[magicdownunder]

Child of Night is not a card worth SB slot. Sure, it is more useful than LBZ but replacing a piss poor card matchup wise with a terrible card won't bring us the victory. We might as well go second Whip in SB.

Tried the Devours, they sure help with Hexproof. Against burn... Well, better than other options.

Qualified for champs after waiting whole day for qualifier to start. Made 4_0 and split battling... Well, not really good players. But I honestly couldn't care less since the result is there.

All in all, deck lost it's power with GRx on the downlow. Just sticking with it since I need to regain my tickets. The list will be posted tommorrow on wotc page I guess.

In
other news... It may be time to move away from LBZ. Suggestions as to what to replace it with?

Grats on your placing

Can you post your current list - I'll come up with suggestion when I can see the bigger picture (I agree on cutting LBZ).

[Halewind]

In other news... It may be time to move away from LBZ. Suggestions as to what to replace it with?

Jedi_Knight, I don't know how many LBZ maindeck do you play, not seen your list for a while, but I can tell you that I replaced 2 LBZ x 2 Herald of Torment, and never looked back: for 3 mana, a 3/3 flyer stops specters and phoenixes, or attacks throw them. Is not bad that is't black, so can block a master. And if you have other guy, like YP$, Ash Zaelot, Spike Jester, think of him like other dragon (with haste) that leaves a body if he dies. Demon on Exava is as good as you can think and ends games in 2 turns. I found that 2 is the right number, because I want to play it with bestow if I can. The 1 point of damage is relevant only
if you drop it in stalled games, but's the reason I only play 2, he's not good in multiples. I even remove it against burn, cause it's a clock that makes other creature hard to kill with burn spells if you play it rigth. Hope this helps.

[Jedi_Knight]

Current deck is here: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/229825.

Won't really have time to play anything before the champs and I don't even know whether I'll make it, but here it is. The updated list should definitely be -2 LBZ main -something SB +LBZ SB. Can't really think of anything else, not in the deckbuilding modus operandi right now.

[magicdownunder]

I actually think the LBZ won't be horrible during the championship due to the huge number Ux Devotion, Jund and Control decks.

If you were to cut them I'll run +1 Shock and +1 Price or HDF MD and -Skull for 2x LBZ, that said outside the Bx Devo MU I don't think LBZ zombies will be bad (unless your super unlucky and pair with the few burn decks ).

[Pedros]

To be honest I dont hate is vs burn as well. You cant entirely cut searing blood targets, and it gets past YP / Ash zealot tokens. Also while playng Burn I like to grind my op with chandra phoenix trade and then burn to the face and recour.

Similar vs Chandra, when you already have Spike Jesters you cant cut all targets.

Rememver you still have Tymaret to sac blood target.

[Pedros]

Moving Forward cards that can be potentially good:

Eidolon of the Great Revel - Rakdos tends to have bigger mana curve, so it might be quite good.
Prophetic Flamespeaker - quite a lot of removal to allow him to pass throu.
Gnarled Scarhide - another good 1 drop with 2 power, plus bestowing him is awsome. Imo best 1 drops in those colors.
Master of the feast - this will be allstar or really bad, depends how meta would shape. His time to shine would be when DD rotate.
Tormented Thoughts - dont know why but I like this card a lot. Turn 1 guy, turn 2 jester swing, turn 3 swing cast Tormented Thoughts. I dont think oponent can recover from it.

Also just noticed that there is no double colored cards in this set.

[Jedi_Knight]

Decided to go with LBZ main based on the aforementioned resurgence of Ux Devo. Stomped R1 over MBC 2-0, just raced the fuck out og his double NVS double DD hand. Saw Crypt Incursion G2 so I guess players really are scared of Burn.

[magicdownunder]

Decided to go with LBZ main based on the aforementioned resurgence of Ux Devo. Stomped R1 over MBC 2-0, just raced the fuck out og his double NVS double DD hand. Saw Crypt Incursion G2 so I guess players really are scared of Burn.

Nice I hope you win it

[Jedi_Knight]

Aand 2-0 against Esper. Helped that he stumbled on 4 lands G1 and LBZ took care of Archangel G2. Should be pretty easy to at least get 5 boosters know even if I fuck up. And As I know myself, that is pretty likely.

/edit

aaaand lost0-2 against another MBC because according to goldfish he qualified with hexproof so I shipped double dreadbore hand back to get something more aggresive... didn't quite work out.

ok, 1-2 against esper aggro, made a misplay that cost me the second game. dropped right after I conceded. now I can finally play that Arkham Horror board game I bought yesterday.

[MattT]

Moving Forward cards that can be potentially good:

Eidolon of the Great Revel - Rakdos tends to have bigger mana curve, so it might be quite good.
Prophetic Flamespeaker - quite a lot of removal to allow him to pass throu.
Gnarled Scarhide - another good 1 drop with 2 power, plus bestowing him is awsome. Imo best 1 drops in those colors.
Master of the feast - this will be allstar or really bad, depends how meta would shape. His time to shine would be when DD rotate.
Tormented Thoughts - dont know why but I like this card a lot. Turn 1 guy, turn 2 jester swing, turn 3 swing cast Tormented Thoughts. I dont think oponent can recover from it.

Also just noticed that there is no double colored cards in this set.

Off-topic: Scarhide is what makes me
think a Tempo deck could work. A few aggressive critters that aren´t bad topdecks is just what you´d want there.

On topic: Tormented Thoughts is a Rakdos´s Return which scales better. It´ll be a blowout after Jester aswell as post Master.

PV just released an article on CFB on Flamespeaker. The question is if he´s worth twisting your deck around.