[Primer] Boros Burn

[zemanjaski]

Do t bring in three copies of mortars vs. Esper FFS.

[Jediace42]

I mostly wanted those to respond to the BBoV that they, at least locally, are usually sideboarding in against me. Maybe for that only 1 or two?

[Purp]

The thing is that you should be able to beat a BBV. If they are able to comfortably cast it on t5 you are either far ahead, or far behind.

The thing with esper is they could side in these 4 cards: Fiendslayer, NVS, BBV or Archangel. 1 Chain/1 Mortar should be fine heading into g2.

[rage_jl]

IF you're afraid of Angels, Fiendslayers, Nightveils (which you can already kill) keep a chain or two in. IF you see blood baron in game two, or if it was there in game one (it happens occasionally) then bring Mortars in. Not all of them run it. You don't keep searing blood in for Elspeth tokens, don't bring in mortars for maybe a blood baron. You are not control against Esper you want to be aggro and hit them hard and fast while holding skull crack turn 5/6 on. Esper is a decent matchup for this deck, it was put together for that matchup and performs quite well against them. I wouldn't bring in wear // tear against them until I saw BO in game 2, if it's going to 3. Maybe hitting a sphere for a creature is possibly good, you want to kill the BO if they drop it early so your phoenixes don't miss a hit. You have to take spells that cause damage out and 2 damage from a shock to the player or jace is better than
holding a wear // tear hoping he'll hit your phoenix with a sphere: so you can show them! I'm not sure if this is right, it's definitely not gospel, but its what I have been using.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Looks like I finalized my list for GP Phoenix. Heading out tomorrow morning.

[deck]4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

1 Blood Crypt
2 Boros Guildgate
7 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
3 Toil/Trouble
1 Wear/Tear[/deck]

Full Report to be posted either Monday or Tuesday when I am back home.

[zemanjaski]

Oooh looks awesome.

[Jedi]

Looks like I finalized my list for GP Phoenix. Heading out tomorrow morning.

[deck]4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

1 Blood Crypt
7 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
3 Toil//Trouble
1 Wear//Tear[/deck]

Full Report to be posted either Monday or Tuesday when I am back home.

I like this list & will probably run it myself! Your main deck only has 58 cards in it
though. 2 Boros Guildgates maybe as you only have 21 lands?

Edit: Corrected card link.
Edit: Correcting my English...horrible.

[NerdBoyWonder]

I like this list & will probably run it myself! Your main deck only has 58 cards in it though. 2 Boros Guildgates maybe as you only have 21 lands?

Edit: Corrected card link.
Edit: Correcting my English...horrible.

Good catch. The last 2 cards are Boros Guildgates. Updated the list. 23 lands. 3 Black Sources. 11 White Sources. In testing the extra scry has been pretty awesome and helpful. Being able to Toil through hand disruption is pretty damn awesome also. Managed to beat MBC after I got back to back discarded.

[zemanjaski]

Run two Blood Crypt I think (-1 mountain).

And yeah, Divination makes hand disruption look a bit silly.

[Mr. Metronome]

Want to test:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
1 Boros Guildgate
5 Mountain
4 Mutavault
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
3 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Glare of Heresy
4 Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

Part of me is scared to give up all the tempo draws, but the deck looks like it has substantial game against
MBC, Esper and even that Junk deck that the Duke is pushing. It's probably the best Firedancer shell yet; you just cut Toil // Trouble against creature decks for them and you've got 26 spells with which to trigger them. Sideboard should tell you what I want to beat and what I think is effective for those purposes.

Been away from the thread for a while, getting caught up.

The most recent list I've been running (around when we were fiddling with the new temples) has been underperforming in my LGS, what do you think of a list similar to above but with access to Anger of the Gods? I keep getting beaten by random janky Hero of Iroas decks and the like.

[magicdownunder]

Why did we cut YP for T/T on paper?

we didn't (we?)

Didn't you know? We're all a hive-mind collective now....

[magicdownunder]

I 3-1 the daily event running:

[deck=MDU's Blind Zurm]Lands 23
6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Others 5
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Blind Obedience
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burns 24
3 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Shock

Sideboard 15
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil/Trouble
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Wear/Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
3 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

I tried to gear the list to beat the top5 decks - Bx Devotion, Esper Control, Burn, Jund Monsters and Ux Devotion, hence the 3x BO, 3x Assemble, 3x T//T and 3x MM.

I personally thinks it runs well, the only issue is that I'm having great trouble in dealing with control list what are geared to beat us (the version
with 3-4 FSP) - I do have glare but I feel that its not enough.... heck even the Boros charm trick is countered by counters or Azorius Charm.

[montu]

Playing the DE . . . using Zem's latest RWb.

M1: BG Dredge

G1 - Shocked his Mystic T1, and had an easy win in 7 turns.

+4 Satyr Firedancer
-4 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]

G2 - Shocked his Mystic T1. He didn't hit second land until T4. He Toughtseized me on T7 when he had 7 life and I had a Boros Charm and Skullcrack in hand, and 5 untapped land.

[Kaitscralt]

Remember to follow Dies to Removal on Twitter, @diestoremoval, for bad jokes, updates about Zem's articles and more.

Support DTR, or I will randomly change your username while you sleep.

[montu]

Now 2-0 in the DE.

Match 2: Jund Monsters

G1: I mull to 6. I chain his Courser early but he gets a great draw and puts Reaper, Zenagos, Domri on board by T5.

-3 T/T
+1 W/T
+2 Chained

G2: He mulls to 6 and gets flooded. I hammer him quickly.

G3: I keep a 2 land hand (2x Temple) because it's chock-full of burn. I scry a MJ and decide to keep it on top. He gets a Dragon and Polukranos on board. I have to 2-1 both (2x Lightning Strike for the Dragon and Lightning Strike/Searing Blood for the Polukranus). He gets Rampager on the board, which I Helix. I smacked him with Phoenix for a bit before finishing him off with Charm and Strike.

[montu]

Now 3-0 in the DE.

Match 3: UW Control

G1: I kept a sub-optimal opening hand (only Crypt / Mutavault with a Charm and Chained), because I was on the draw. Game went smoothly and I easily won.

+4 Firedrinker
+2 Chandra
-3 Searing Blood
-2 Chained
-1 Shock

G2: I lost early tempo because of 2 Azorius Charms putting my FDS back top deck. I killed his Jace because he had to -2 it right off the bat. He blocked my FDS with Aetherling (hmmm), which I finished off with a Strike. He was low on cards, and I forced him to use a counter against Toil, and then I got Phoenix on the board. I forced him to use another counter against Toil again, then Skullcracked his Sphinx, and another Skullcrack for the win.

[zemanjaski]

How's the manabase feel? I am pretty proud of it. I also thinking going down to only 2 Chained is justified, given how uninteractive our creature base is.

[zemanjaski]

How's the manabase feel? I am pretty proud of it. I also thinking going down to only 2 Chained is justified, given how uninteractive our creature base is.

[Kaitscralt]

glitch

[DDDebeli]

4-0-ed my LGS two days ago with an older list - no temples other than RW, 4 Mutavault, 2 guildgates, and standard rest. 3-3-3 shock-cttr-SB split.
SB:
2x Assemble
3x MM
1x Spark trooper
1x CTTR
3x Peak Eruption
1x W//T
1x Glare
3x TT (even without the black splash)


2-0 against BG midrange, mostly on his screw in both games (me helping with shock on mystic)

2-1 against rdw, he played turn 1 FDS into turn 2 2xFDS in first game, but was on the draw so I liked playing like I have reverse SFD on the board Lost the game on the draw, had no shock, and couldn't get back from behind.

2-1 against RW devo, we split the first two games, and I won off a mull to 4 in third being on the play >:) Kept mountain, YP$, Peak eruption and CTTR coz going on three cards doesn't make sense. He kept a mountain and 2xnykthos hand and missed
third land drop while I peeled foundry and mutavault off the top He used MM on my YP$ but PE set him far behind while I topdecked CP and pecked him to death... I don't remember much mull to four wins on the play in my magic carrer, have to say it feels good.

Won the last 2-0 against RG monsters, YP was a total boss in this MU, opponent had no MM overload and I had cttr for his polukranos in both games. Uncontested YP wins games on his own. Even when I can't attack through caryatids and coursers, he is still keeping his guys from attacking and giving me time to draw my burn.

I mulliganed in only one game whole night, other than that, mana was great, even with 4x Muta. I know it isn't a very big sample but I like my playset of mutavaults even at the expense of some consistency. Have to try the new manabase... Altho, my meta has almost no control so having TT only against mono B isn't very good imho. But against a more
open field (where esper is a big chunk of metagame), I could see myself going to manabase with a little black.

I left one spark trooper in my board out of sentimental reasons and I have to say he was incredible both times I drew him (against RG and RW), RW opponent found it very funny to lose to that card

[montu]

Ended up 3-1 in the DE

Match 4: UW Aggro

G1: He had Espeth and Brimaz on board. I had him to 2 life, then top decked a land.

G2: My opening hand was suboptimal . . . 4 lands (including 1 mutavault) 2x Phoenix, and WLH. In hindsight, I should have mulliganed. I got blind-sided when he countered my very-much-needed MJ (to kill Captain and scry more burn) with a Fall of the Gavel (WTF?!?). I got a Satyr on board, and Toiled for 2 cards, drawing a Searing Blood and Strike. He Syncopated the Searing Blood, and that's all she wrote.

[Toddington]

Good lord, I hope Fall of the Gavel doesn't become a thing.

[gozmit97]

Though i'm not sure I'll be playing burn tonight at FNM, this is the list i'd run if I can borrow the cards for it and feel like playing it.
[deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells
4 Shock
4 Lightning strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleaders Healix
2 Searing Blood
3 Chained to the rocks

Lands
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Victory
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Boros guildgate
3 Mutavault
8 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Toil/Trouble
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
2 Boros reckoner
1 Spark trooper
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the rocks
1 Wear/tear[/deck]

i've been considering [card]Turn/Burn[/card] with the blue splash, as well as a bit heavier black for Dreadbore, [card]Rakdos's Return[/card], Slaughter Games and [
card]Spike Jester[/card]

[montu]

How's the manabase feel? I am pretty proud of it. I also thinking going down to only 2 Chained is justified, given how uninteractive our creature base is.

Surprisingly, I haven't found any issues that aren't in the RW-only build. No complaints.

I've thought about the 2x Chained. On the one hand, it seems like 3x would be a bit safer for Bx and Monsters. On the other hand, the nice thing about this deck is the plan is dead simple. It's not reactive. You can win on T5, so let him hit you with a Demon. Or, chump block with Phoenix and get it back with a Shock.

[magicdownunder]

I 3-1 the daily event running:

[deck=MDU's Blind Zurm]Lands 23
6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Others 5
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Blind Obedience
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burns 24
3 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Shock

Sideboard 15
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil/Trouble
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Wear/Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
3 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

I tried to gear the list to beat the top5 decks - Bx Devotion, Esper Control, Burn, Jund Monsters and Ux Devotion, hence the 3x BO, 3x Assemble, 3x T//T
and 3x MM.

I personally thinks it runs well, the only issue is that I'm having great trouble in dealing with control list what are geared to beat us (the version with 3-4 FSP) - I do have glare but I feel that its not enough.... heck even the Boros charm trick is countered by counters or Azorius Charm.

3-1 another DE, my only loss was due to my own stupidity in the mirror.

I added an extra Glare of Hersey (over W/T) to deal with Esper (which I fought in my finals) except he was on the BBV and Spector plan so they were kinda useless, I might run the 4th T//T since they're obv. stellar vs control.

[Lightning_Dolt]

OK, had the chance to jam a bunch of games yesterday to help my friend prepare for GP Phoenix.

I found that Young Pyromancer feels generally worse than Ash Zealot. It might just be me, but I like Ashley in the main and YP$ in the side. I think there are a lot of decks where YP$ doesn't apply enough pressure to play the tempo game and while shock becomes better, searing blood becomes worse. Speaking of which, Nightveil Specter was a real pain in the ass. All of out two damage burn spells line up really poorly against it. Is mono black shifting back to using it?

I found that I really wanted a 12th white source, so I added the 4th guildgate. I am not a fan of off colour scry lands, because I firmly believe scry 1 is not worth comes into play tapped in an aggro deck (I realize that literally everyone disagrees with me, but I don't care, if I don't need them for colour fixing, I'm not playing them).

We didn't play
any sideboard games, so I imagine my sideboard probably needs tuning, but this is my current 75.

[deck= LD's Boros Burn]Lands 23
4 Boros Guildgate
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 8
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 3
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 26
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix


Sideboard 15
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

After testing a bunch of games versus his gauntlet, he decided Mono Black w/ white mirror breaker tech. I approve of the choice.

[magicdownunder]

J_S what were you testing against? Outside the weenies (*/2 version not the */1 version) and control MUs YP$ is superior (though it doesn't really feel like it).

[zemanjaski]

How's the manabase feel? I am pretty proud of it. I also thinking going down to only 2 Chained is justified, given how uninteractive our creature base is.

Surprisingly, I haven't found any issues that aren't in the RW-only build. No complaints.

I've thought about the 2x Chained. On the one hand, it seems like 3x would be a bit safer for Bx and Monsters. On the other hand, the nice thing about this deck is the plan is dead simple. It's not reactive. You can win on T5, so let him hit you with a Demon. Or, chump block with Phoenix and get it back with a Shock.

Demon
and Polukranos were much bigger problems when we had more creatures for them to interact with; there's a lot of games with this version where you just never draw a creature.

How painful was your mana base? Do you think we could get away with, say, 4 black sources (the two scrylands and two blood crypt)? How happy were you with 24 lands inc. 4 Mutavaults and 6 scrylands?

[zemanjaski]

How's the manabase feel? I am pretty proud of it. I also thinking going down to only 2 Chained is justified, given how uninteractive our creature base is.

Surprisingly, I haven't found any issues that aren't in the RW-only build. No complaints.

I've thought about the 2x Chained. On the one hand, it seems like 3x would be a bit safer for Bx and Monsters. On the other hand, the nice thing about this deck is the plan is dead simple. It's not reactive. You can win on T5, so let him hit you with a Demon. Or, chump block with Phoenix and get it back with a Shock.

The
fewer creatures we run, the less we need Chained and the more everything can just go to the dome. The deck definitely players more like an "assemble seven burn spells" deck than before, which I am not sure I like (I LOVE) me a tempo deck, but am willing to at least try!

[zemanjaski]

How few Blood Crypt do you think we can get away with?

[Lightning_Dolt]

J_S what were you testing against? Outside the weenies (*/2 version not the */1 version) and control MUs YP$ is superior (though it doesn't really feel like it).

We tested:

Mono Green Aggro
BW Midrange
Esper Control
Mono Black
UW Control
Naya Hexproof
Gr Monsters
Wb Humans
Mono Black Aggro
RW Burn
Mono Red Aggro
Mono Blue

[zemanjaski]

I think my issue with the RWb version is that losing the die roll hurts it SO MUCH more than the RW version with Young Pyromancer, since the deck literally cannot play defense at all ~ everything has to go to the dome because you have so few sources of repetitive damage.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....maybe I should just play what I know.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I think my issue with the RWb version is that losing the die roll hurts it SO MUCH more than the RW version with Young Pyromancer, since the deck literally cannot play defense at all ~ everything has to go to the dome because you have so few sources of repetitive damage.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....maybe I should just play what I know.

Forgive my ignorance, does the way it plays change that much?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, I think that it does. You see, there were two types of opening in the version with YP / AZ: those with a creature and those without. When you have a creature, especially a turn 2 creature, you can just burn away all of your opponent's early plays, so that you get in enormous damage, then finish them off with your last few cards. These games are typically easy to win. If you're on the draw, you might have to play some small amount of defence, but both YP and AZ are good in either role.

If we take out half our creatures, then we just have fewer of those openings, and Phoenix often won't apply pressure in the same way that a 2-drop will; its harder to get in under counter magic the first time (which then begins this delayed process of getting it back into play, often on turn 5 or 6, which can be too slow); and starting to beat down on turn 3 isn't as reliable as turn 2 (we've all missed our 3rd land drops before!).
I don't think the RWb version will do much against Mono U or GW Aggro curving out on you Game 1, but it isn't like I have tested it, and obviously it gets much better after sideboarding (Firedancer is the highest impact sideboard card for this purpose, but also the narrowest).

The upside of course is that:
- their removal is all bad, since it only ever gets to hit Chandra's Phoenix
- the deck is almost entirely non-interactive
- we get some sweet control options as game goes long, and the deck has a lot of play with a pretty incredible mana base (4 manlands, 6 scrylands)

I don't know how much I will like it, since I do think the deck emphasises a different skillset to my primary, but what the hell, its only a 1K and I want to play it.

[magicdownunder]

I TRULY hope you do well in the event and start a Dega wildfire on MODO

[montu]

How few Blood Crypt do you think we can get away with?

I think easily -1 Blood Crypt. It showed up more than I needed it, fairly consistency. (Only 7 matches total though, so small sample). I was never at a lack for black. 24 lands meant I was scrying a lot of lands to the bottom, and ended a number of games with 6+ lands on the board.

After getting trounced by UW Aggro, I was thinking, now that "we" are only running 4 creatures MD, Anger seems like a viable consideration. I know, it has issues, but it also solves a lot of issues (out of control rats, FSPs, token swarm, etc). I'm going to give it some thought.

[zemanjaski]

Well, I have won every 1K that I have entered, so as long as I stay true to form...

[Jediace42]

Well, off to school then the Convention Center for GP Phoenix... Good luck to anyone playing this weekend, I likely wont be on much again till Monday! May all our Enemies Die in a Fire!

[Purp]

Good luck to everyone competing int he GP! Roll it up, and burn it down.

[Elricity]

I'll probably do the SCG dallas next week but I don't think I'm joining you on the dega burn route if for no reason than I traded away my malice/crypts.

Also, I've done it before back before BNG. I can see how the new cards might make a difference.