[Primer] Izzet Control

[Yarpus]

Izzet Control

Izzet Control was actually an idea of Alex and Zem which they shared with community during their streaming session. Thanks for being inspiration for creating this Primer.

In terms of Control, we are all used to the classic decks like UB or UW Control with occasional RB decks that just happen (but they
could be considered as midrange sometimes if they pack lots of creatures). Even if colors like Red and Green are used in Control, they are mostly as splashed color (UWr, UWg) for some quality cards. I believe that RtR-Theros format can be a place where another archetype of Control deck will be made - Izzet Control.

History knows some Izzet Control decks actually. The most popular one happened during days of original Ravnica block. Izzet Counterburn with White splash is still remembered by many due to powerfull interaction between high-quality burn spells and Swans of Bryn Argoll which actually allowed you to turn every burn spell that hits creatures into an actual draw. Drawing 3 cards for 2 mana was kind of efficent. But these days are actually gone and they will most probably never come back.

This time, if Izzet Deck is ever supposed to exist - it is not using any kind of powerfull combo as it's engine. What makes it good is actually the card pool it gets. Packing your
deck with Mountains and Islands gives you access to:
- arguably the best finisher in the format: Aetherling
- arguably the best boardwipe in the format: Anger of the Gods
- arguably the best counterspell in the format: Counterflux
- arguably the most versatile card in the format: Izzet Charm

All of these cards are amazing. Aetherling is an unkillable and unblockable beast that ends people as long as you have enough of mana to protect it. Anger of the Gods is whole turn faster than Supreme Verdict. Counterflux is the actual way to say "No". And when you mean "No", it really is "No" instead of "Dispel". And Izzet Charm - this card is full of versatility as it's either Shock in Aggro matchup, Spell Pierce in Control matchup and no-flashback Faithless Looting. All in one card.

If you got hooked up with the idea of playing UR Control -
let's see the prototype of the deck.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Aetherling

Planeswalkers:
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Ral Zarek

Other Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Izzet Charm
4 Essence Scatter
2 Turn // Burn
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Opportunity

Lands:
2 Mutavault
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
8 Island
6 Mountain
2 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:
4 Counterflux
2 Turn // Burn
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Catch // Release
2 Wear // Tear
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius[/deck]

Let's do some all-around card breakdown.

Frostburn Weird: 1/4 wall in Aggro matchups, 4/1 beater in Control matchups. This guy can put so much early pressure, stonewall most of creatures played in RDW and trade with lots of stuff as long as you have mana.
Aetherling: this is the ultimate winning condition. As long as you have some mana, he is unkillable, untouchable and unblockable. Gives your opponent
pretty short clock in terms of responding.

Jace, Architect of Thought: stonewall for Aggro and great draw engine. This deck heavily relies on having all the right responses - which is why it's relatively important to draw lots of cards. Jace allows you to do that few times and in case of your opponent not putting pressure big enough - threaten him with the ultimate.
Ral Zarek: most of you actually don't like Ral Zarek. I understand that. But what I see in this card is repetable source of 3 damage with minor upside. He's one of the very few Planeswalkers that actually have decent way of interacting with the board state when he comes. He: helps you at burning out big creatures, untaps your lands and blockers, threatens opponent with crazy ultimate. It MIGHT fizzle obviously, but your opponent would never want to check if it actually does or not.

Magma Jet/Lightning Strike:
classic burn package that could be reduced in the future. Burn cards while not dealing with everything your opponent could play - they for sure have some versatility which is big when your meta consists mostly of RDW and UW Control. When UW packs Azorius Charms and plays against creaturless Aetherling.deck - it feels sad as all it does is cantrip. With burn, you have the choice of killing small creatures OR chipping on your opponent's life. And that sweet Scry 2 on Magma Jet.
Izzet Charm: countering Sphinx's Revelation, killing Ash Zealot or filtering Draw 2/Discard 2. While all these modes aren't the most sexy ones in the history - packing them all into one card is what makes Izzet Charm so strong. With meta mostly filled with RDW and UW Control (especially on Modo), this is some real value.
Essence Scatter: creatures are good enough these days to be considered as main threat of nearly every deck. And while you do not have many ways to
interact with the big guys in each deck - this is one of those available for you. It deals with most of your troubles except of Mistcutter Hydra, Loxodon Smiter and Advent of the Wurm. On the other hand it completely nullifies the threats of Fanatic of Mogis and Aetherling. And guess what, those two cards are currently the best finishers in the format.
[card]Turn // Burn[/card]: Izzet's way of dealing with big stuff. While it's costly - it has some sweet options, especially when you have access to cards like Frostburn Weird. Because nobody told you that you can't just 2-for-1 your opponent if you have a blocker on the field, and one of his creatures has 2 toughness. It's a good response to Boros Reckoner as he looses the ability of sending the damage back at you or your creature.
Anger of the Gods: one of the scariest things RDW can ever face. It not only comes down on T3 and wipes their board. It also makes sure any Chandra's Phoenix will just never
come back. While it has a bit less value against GW/MonoG as it doesn't hit every creature they play - generally it's a really good card.
Opportunity: drawing 4 cards at instant-speed is really strong. I'd say when talking about 6 mana usage, it's much better than Sphinx's Revelation. Can't obviously deny the fact that SR scales into late-late game, but Opportunity is all you need when you REALLY want that gas for your deck to run.

Counterflux: pretty damn undervalued card. Last Word was a real Magic: The Gathering card back in the days. Having "cannot be countered" clausule makes it your wild card in Control mirrors. Opponent just wants to draw few thousands of cards from Sphinx's Revelation and has that mana untapped for his SB Dispel? Just say "No, thank you." It's overload will be irrelevant most of the times - sometimes you COULD catch some hotheaded Red player casting all his
burn spells at once. Then you're like Damn It Dude You Forgot This Existed.
Mizzium Mortars: strong card against midrange matchups as it not only hits many of their creatures (anything except of Polukranos/Deadbridge Goliath, Obzedat and Advent of the Wurm) but it also has built-in board wipe. It's just a good card to have in your deck.
[card]Catch // Release[/card]: you might spot that I love me some Fuse. Catch is for sure an interesting option. Capability of grabbing any permanent is nice upgrade from Act of Treason. We all do have the crazy stories about "what I did with Zealous Conscripts..." headlines, and this is sweet enough to be a good weapon against other control and midrange decks. Seeing that ready-to-ult Planeswalker? Ruin someone's day. I'm playing 2 Temple of Triumph just for the capability of theoretically casting Release. It's might not be the best card ever printed... but sometimes it could win games.
Because UW can
sacrifice: Aetherling (exiling him), Elspeth, Detention Sphere, no Artifact, Land. And you could steal their Jace to sacc him as well.
[card]Wear // Tear[/card]: another split card. What makes us feel good about it is the capability of responding to Hammer of Purphoros and Whip of Erebos. What makes us feel great about it is the mere possibility of doing 2for1 as we pack some Temples of Triumph. I love the fact that for 90% of times you can use it as 2-mana Smelt effect, but during those 10% it can win you games just by responding to some kind of annoying enchantment.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: While Niv is not as awesome as Aetherling, it's good to have some kind of split in terms of wincons just not to get blown by some kind of random extraction. Also, he's just like the advertises on porn sites
"One dragon knows all the secret to have a huge, fat CA and draws cards all day - the whole Control Players Community Hates Him! Click to learn his secret of
having huge CA!"

Cards I am considering as well:
Thoughtflare: 1-mana less, but you are loosing 2 cards. As long as deck will not get too many hiccups in terms of lands, I'd rather stay with the Opportunity though.
Young Pyromancer: Frostburn Weird stonewalls aggro. Then what Pyromancer does? It just puts those nasty 1/1 tokens onto battlefield while you are doing YOUR job of slinging spells around. I'm really considering swapping for him even while he's not as good against midrange as Frostburn is.
Izzet Staticaster: if PyroRed will get all the spotlights, Staticaster is your guy. He kills all the Satyrs, Pyromancers and elemental tokens while stonewalling 2/2 creatures this deck plays.

Cards I don't want to play:
[cards]Steam Augury[/cards]: this card deserves it's own deck which should probably be some kind of Midrange or even Counterburn. It floods your hand with the cards,
but those are not always the right ones. That's too dangerous to play it in the deck that relies on small amount of wincons to win.
Guttersnipe: I've seen some people on other forums obviously forcing into this deck. This card is just bad. Not Vexing Devil-bad, but just bad.

FAQ

Ral Zarek is shitter, why do you keep mentioning him?
1. I'm just a sucker for underdog Planeswalkers.
2. He is a source of repeatable damage who can also ramp you a bit.
3. He is a huge threat for any deck that can't put enough of pressure onto you. He grows fast and his ultimate is one of the most backbreaking things ever happening. It might fizzle and it might be useless - but your opponent for sure doesn't want to check it if actually will.

Why you are not playing Counterburn?
I actually loved Counterburn. I have to admit that I played it during SoM-INN format on unofficial polish championships with some
good results (dropped due to 2nd day being full of Draft - I really suck at drafting). So, what's the difference? I think I was the first guy that ever used Vapor Snag in competetive as Unsummon + free Gut Shot was good business, especially with Snapcaster Mage. We had Brimstone Volleys, Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets and even filthy, filthy Tunnel Ignus (my another piece of tech - everyone was playing GR Wolf Run). Act of Aggression anyone?
I actually won one game against weird UW Control played by a really good player just by Act of Aggression-Vapor Snag-Snapcaster Mage combo. I actually used all 4 of each card to beat my opponent. Taking away my opponent's Wurmcoil Engine to kill his Elesh Norn (and Wurmcoil). Stalling the game by casting 7 copies of Vapor Snag (4 + 3 flashbacks). Fun days, fun times.
Currently played burn spells just don't really strike me as cards that can bring your opponent to 0 alone. Same goes for supporting creatures. 2/2 Can't Block is no 3/
2 Flying. During old days you could actually just dome your opponent for 5 with Brimstone Volley, wait till he attacks with something, cast Snapcaster Mage and target Volley for flashback, let Snap die and then aim for another 5.
Magma Jetting your opponent will not get you too far. Same as trying to hit him hard with unevasive Nivix Cyclops. Sad but true.

[atatjacob1]

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate you on your primer, it's very detailed and is an original build.

Have you considered... the other Jace? His two abilities are both very relevant against control and slower midrange decks although not much else. I understand that the RtR Jace is a better choice overall due to his anti-aggro capabilities from his +1 and digging from -2 not to mention that he can arrive a turn earlier. Despite RtR Jace being a better choice, is Memory Adept a viable budget option?

I would also like to point out quicken. Quicken would be nigh unplayable if it wasn't for that last line of text, not the flavor text but the draw a card part. Its usefulness might be reduced due to your lack of sorceries and you would rather play the cards that you'd want to draw with it, but I think it has potential. Instant speed Anger of the Gods, Mizzium Overloaded or even Catching their creature and blocking an attacker
at instant speed, the card allowing you to do this replacing itself with more fuel. I am probably in magical christmas land but in a deck that can use it fully (cards such as divination) it doesn't seem like something to be ignored.

I don't believe U/R has the reach to be a top tier control deck. It loses the best cards from U/W (Sphinx's Revelation, Verdict, D-Sphere, Azorius Charm and Elspeth) and gains Anger and some instant speed burn and (j)izzet charm. IMO, U/R's best chance of seeing competitive play is in the form of a midrange tempo build. Big red splashing blue with stormbreath or spellheart chimera + hammer of purphoros as a finisher. You get full advantage of tempo cards such as (j)izzet charm, essence scatter and magma jet while not relying on big draw cards that U/R is lacking (apart from opportunity, but that doesn't put you out of burn range, does it?). U/R Midrange/Tempo uses the best cards from this list such as weird and can accommodate a burn filled removal package, using
additional blue sideboard options such as Catch, Counterflux and Turn // Burn. What you've created here is a solid shell, but in the wrong form.

I might be totally wrong though so unless you see sense in what I'm saying then take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Yarpus]

Thanks for your response.

@Memory Adept
Memory Adept is usually considered to be a fantastic SB card against control. His 0 just makes them loose their shit all day and night. I actually dislike it here, as we put our money into one basket which is "winning with damage". Still, yes, he is kind of a card you could play in here as your draw engine. His quality is obviously not too high, remember, but he does his job (drawing cards, being fat). In terms of other alternatives, consider Steam Augury (but that requires playing 4 Aetherlings from you) or Inspiration/Thoughtflare. It's all about having reliable draw engines.

@Quicken
Just no. I know logical thinking tells you that control should play cantrips - but if cantrip is that shitty, there's no need to force yourself. Consider Lightning Strike to be a better "cantrip" as you can consider 3 damage as an actual card draw. So it's removal/draw
instead of nothing/draw.

@Viability
When being on draw, UW Control has no interaction with Fanatic of Mogis except of counterspells. I'll just repost something:

Went 1-4 at Trial, All matchups were mono-red. Very high agggro Meta any Suggestions?
I went to me local shoppe and went x-4. I love playing control and at the last FNM I play against a lot of G/W decks and came in second. I don't understand how I lost so many match ups to mono-red. Any help would be appreciated.

Obviously there had to be a flaw on controller's side - but you have to admit that UW is far away from stomping RDWs. It's more like 40-60 matchup with RDW being advantegous. UR doesn't have that many problems. Your "empty" cards are effective removal against them. Hell, just look at Izzet Charm. It kills any creature in their deck except of Reckoner OR stops them from either burn or laying scary Hammer of Purphoros.
Basically, you are making your matchup
against GW Aggro worse - but your RDW matchup is better. Which one matters much more these days? That's the question you need to answer to estimate the power of the deck.

Remember that while you have no lifegain, you can just control the field well enough to never let the actual damage to happen.

Don't worry mate and obviously, don't be so shy in terms of your opinion. I don't bite.

[Jasper]

Is it time for this to become a thing again? I'm getting tired of playing the same stuff all the time.

[Pendulum]

Well, there's definitely nothing wrong with the archetype, at least. Right now, it's biggest challenge is to not just be a shittier version of WR burn; you lose the big stuff like Helix (and a bunch of really good sideboard stuff) and burning their stuff out is arguably just strictly better than countering it instead; however, in my playgroup it's doing an excellent job of being the hatchetman for some of the largely feared decks running around.. Esper, for instance, has a real problem dealing with pretty much any of the modes off of Izzet Charm, and this is quite possibly the best deck to run Young Pyromancer in when most of the workhorse instants can draw you more instants and/or deal with the cards that take out YP$. It's big draws right at this second, in my opinion, are its absolute mastery of the Mutavault beatdown
plan while sitting on a whole hand of answers and diverse threats, and that it's a nightmare to sideboard against (even assuming you're using those precious slots in that fashion) while having lots of easy answers for its own sideboard package.

Personally, I consider UR not as strong as UWR, as I believe the strength White brings to the deck more useful than the play having only 2 colors allows you in your mana-base, but it's a close thing: as I said, either version really, really likes Mutavault and it's a game-winning card here, and while you have to struggle to jam a 1-or-2-of in 'Murica there's little reason not to run the full boat here (especially because you're not trying to curve perfectly like you would be doing in 'Murica). What I'm seeing a lot of, when the deck wins, is that UR loses a lot of Game 1's that UWR would probably/might have won ('cuz we've reached the apex of what the current best cards in Standard are and these are not them), then stomps the
opponent Game 2 while the opponent is still struggling to figure out which of the deck's schizophrenic win-cons to put up resistance against, then Game 3 comes down to smashing them in the face with lands as each player answers the hell out of their opponent's threats. Heck, if nothing else, getting used to the deck at FNM now is highly suggested, as we know it gets new toys in Nyx.

One gripe, I wish we didn't have not one but two Dreadbores in Standard right now, as Ral Zarek is just not as good as he would otherwise be here; the best line of attack this deck has against BR/mono-B aggro is dropping him mid-game and protecting him for a turn or two to step up the pace of playing out Aetherling or more spells, but that's too often shut out because while you're coming up with an intricate series of plays that keep him alive they're just holding the silver bullet.

[Pendulum]

Oh, forgot to mention, Mono-U aggro has a really, really hard time with this deck.

[Jasper]

I guess I'm just doing some soul-searching right now, since Red Devotion has been having lots of variance lately. I saw my buddy playing UWR Control at my last $5k. He had a stack of what had to be 12 lands, the table had 3 D Spheres on it, and he had a full 7 cards in his hand, with 2 copies of Counterflux.

Would it be possible to build an Izzet Control shell around Young Pyro, Purphoros, God of the Forge, and Hammer of Purphoros? Maybe a singleton Stormbreath in the side or something? It would be very odd, seeing a deck simply countering everything, while making tokens, and putting it's excess of lands to use as 3/3 Tokens.

[Toddington]

This is probably more along the lines of UR midrange, but with all the burn spells [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] becomes a recurring blocker/finisher. Discarding them to Izzet Charm and Thoughtflare for cards early on is pretty sweet when one burn spell gives you an army in the late game. It's not like you are forcing burn into the list for phoenix synergy, and do you need more reasons to run Chandra, Pyromaster?

Early game plays of [card=YP$]Young Pyromancer[/card] and Frostburn Weird, with Prognostic Sphinx, Stormbreath Dragon, and Aetherling up top?

I like Izzet Keyrune a fair amount, I've looted more than my fair share of cards
away after an EOT Cyclonic Rift...

I'd be really interested to see what lists people are thinking on.

[Pendulum]

@Jasper: I'm not sure. On the Cons side, counterspell packages are pretty weak right now, since aggro can sneak guys under it and black just plays Pack Rat, and the prevalence of Thoughtseize makes relying on anything even remotely resembling a combo a little iffy. I wouldn't be comfortable playing with Hammer in a deck like that, as I feel it's just too situational. On the Pros side, however, blue does bring a lot to the party, and it's a good combination of play-worthy cards; stuff like Bident of Thassa, Cyclonic Rift, and Steam Augury would be worth trying out, or hell, just playing a Master of Waves or Curse of the Swine-ing* your own guys with a Purphoros, God of the Forge online seems like lulz. Considering the
reactive quality the deck would have, it also might be the place for Burning Earth and/or Awaken the Ancient, and Frostburn Weird would be an all-star no doubt.

I'd probably start with something like this.. the deck looks hella fun, so maybe I'll sleeve it up:

[deck]I hate Izzet puns.dek[/deck]

[Toddington]

Remember this list from Daily Decks?

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... /deck/1367
[deck]
Lands (24)
7 Island
4 Izzet Guildgate
7 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Steam Vents

Creatures (12)
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Master of Waves
4 Young Pyromancer




Other Spells (24)
2 Bident of Thassa
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dissolve
3 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rapid Hybridization
3 Shock
2 Steam Augury
2 Teleportal
2 Turn // Burn
[/deck]

This is pre-BotG I guess, but not much changed meta-wise. YP$ and Master is living the dream!

[Jasper]

I have a prejudice against Master of Waves, having lost to it so many times now as a Red player. And I'm already kind of 'over' the whole Purphoros idea. That was my inner Johnny right there.

This is probably more along the lines of UR midrange, but with all the burn spells [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] becomes a recurring blocker/finisher. Discarding them to Izzet Charm and Thoughtflare for cards early on is pretty sweet when one burn spell gives you an army in the late game. It's not like you are forcing burn into the list for phoenix synergy, and do you need more reasons to run [card:
22zt5y8v]Chandra, Pyromaster[/card]?

Early game plays of [card=YP$]Young Pyromancer[/card] and Frostburn Weird, with Prognostic Sphinx, Stormbreath Dragon, and Aetherling up top?

I like Izzet Keyrune a fair amount, I've looted more than my fair share of cards away after an EOT Cyclonic Rift...

I'd be really interested to see what lists people are thinking on.

Wow, I actually kind of like the idea of Izzet Keyrune in a control shell. Not a huge fan of Prognostic Sphinx though. I'd rather have an actual finisher like Stormbreath in that slot. I'm thinking maybe 4 Phoenix, 4 YP$, 2 Stormbreath as the creature package. Frostburn is obviously great, but there may not be any room for it.

Something like 23-24 lands if we go with the Keyrune? Obviously you want Chandra,
but what about Ral Zarek?

I'm gonna see if I can put something together in a minute before I head out for the day.

[deck]
Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 4
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ral Zarek

Spells 22
3 Izzet Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Turn // Burn
2 Lightning Strike
3 Searing Blood
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Thoughtflare

2 Izzet Keyrune

Lands 24
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
3 Mutavault
7 Mountain
6 Island

Sideboard 15
4 Counterflux
2 Negate
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
1 Stormbreath Dragon
[/deck]

[Toddington]

I've never played with Ral Zarek, but I can see him being sweet if you want to bolt stuff. I guess he ramps the turn after you play him, and then taps down blockers for Stormbreath/Phoenix beats.

23 land with keyrune seems fine for a couple each of Chandra and Stormbreath. 24 lands/keyrune, 10 creatures, 2-4 planeswalkers, leaves room for 24-22 spells. What sort of package do we want right now? Burn, draw, soft counters? This sounds pretty Counterburn-y, but that's not a bad thing.

[Jasper]

The problem here is that while we are drawing cards, we are having to discard almost an even amount. It's fine if we are discarding the Phoenix of course, but we are still milling through the deck pretty fast.

Is Elixer of Immortality necessary for a deck like this? Izzet also seems to have a lack of lifegain options.

Edit: On second thought, Searing blood may not be such a great idea with the list I posted. Maybe +2 Lightning Strikes and a Syncopate or something instead. Idk.

[Toddington]

Milling out doesn't seem like a concern unless you are playing a grindy control mirror, and Phoenix is typically good there.

I found this sort of deck wins very quickly once you've stabilized and gone into kill mode, you have burn to throw at the dome unlike other control decks.

[Jasper]

The spell package seems like it would naturally be similar to counterburn. Izzet Charm is an automatic 4-of. Magma Jet is also a 4-of. As for the rest of it, I'm not really sure. I think I like the idea of having 2 sources of card draw, being either 2x Steam Augury, or 2x Thoughtflare. Lightning Strike seems like it needs to be there, but it's kind of weak for killing creatures right now. Therefore, I like 4 sweepers. 2 Mortars and 2 Cyclonic Rifts feels okay. Mortars can happen turn 5 if it really needs to, either from the Keyrune or from Ral Zarek. Oh, and Turn // Burn is in an AMAZING place right now.

[Toddington]

[deck]Counterburn[/deck]

I like how Ral can be used to get Phoenix back, don't know if he's better than more Chandra though. I sort of want Divination...

I was gonna run Dissolve or Counterflux over Syncopate, but this isn't a deck that will have 2 Blue on T3 with any consistency. The Temple will do great work here, most of your spells are 2CMC so you play CIPT lands on odd numbered turns.

After having a better look at this list, I think I want Lightning Strike
over Syncopate, not enough reach/phoenix recursion? Not sure how much is needed.

[Toddington]

Once upon a time in RTR block constructed, I was using Essence Backlash to p4wn Desecration Demons and Armada Wurms. That sideboard technology seems reasonable in today's standard, maybe even better than it was then.

Essence Scatter/Lava Axe, return Phoenix to hand, thanks for playing.

[Jasper]

Essence Backlash seems neat, but that is a big CMC to be banking on. Obviously works well against GR Monsters though. Also probably one of the best answers to a Gray Merchant of Asphodel I've ever seen. I take 5 and you gain 5? How about I take nothing, and you take 5.

[deck]Counterburn[/deck]

I like how Ral can be used to get Phoenix back, don't know if he's better than more Chandra though. I sort of want Divination...

I was gonna run Dissolve or Counterflux over Syncopate, but this isn't a deck that will have 2 Blue on T3 with any consistency. The Temple will do great work here, most of your spells are 2CMC so you play CIPT lands on odd numbered turns.

After having a better look at this list, I think I want Lightning Strike over Syncopate, not enough reach/phoenix recursion? Not sure how much is needed.

I think your list is a good place to start. I'm going to say though, that you have more than enough red sources. You need 16 red sources to reliably cast a [mana]rr[/mana] spell on turn 2. We don't even need [mana]rr[/mana] until turn 3. Counterflux can see mainboard use with 1-2 Keyrunes and 12 blue mana sources. The Scry we have, and the digging from Izzet Charm, plus the mana fixing of the keyrune make
casting [mana]uur[/mana] on turn 3 pretty reliable.

I'd like to have some number of 3+ damage burn spells in the main deck, just for the possibility of Chandra's Ultimate. Ulting into a Magma Jet is not the most game-ending thing I can think of. As bad as Lava Axe is, maybe 2 of them wouldn't be so bad just as a finisher? Idk, wish we just had Warleaders Helix or Boros Charm.

[Toddington]

What numbers are you working with for the colour requirements? You need 20 for RR T2, and 19 (what we have here) for on curve phoenixes. I guess counterflux/dissolve wouldn't be horrendous, as they are fine later on.

[Pendulum]

I... I'm not getting the logic, I'm afraid. Red, a highly-played archetype many of which are currently proving themselves the best in the format, has a problem dealing with Master of Waves, so fuck it, more Lava Axe?

Also, while I do love me some Chandra, believe me, what exactly is she doing for the deck? If it's to use her + ability, Izzet Staticaster just seems strictly better at removal, and we don't really have the big swing turns like other decks that make use of her, and her 0 ability just looks like a weaker version of the card draw the deck already has in spades.

[Jasper]

Okay, so ignore the Lava Axe statement, that was dumb. I don't think MoW will really be an issue when there are 8 mainboard counter spells, 2 bounce spells, and 4 [card]Turn // Burn[/card]. MoW is a 4 drop, and all our counters can be cast before then. Not to mention, Counterflux doesn't care about Judges Familiar. If they go for a MoW drop, then we have to be ready to counter, or block with some number of Pyro tokens and cast the Turn side on MoW.

I believe Chandra's usage is mostly as repeatable Phoenix recursion. This also works well with Turn // Burn if we're playing it like a sorcery. Her +0 does seem kind of weak in a shell like this.


And back on mana, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that 16 is the correct number for t2 RR, and 20 was the best way to reduce varience. I mean, my red Sligh deck has been running 15 lands for the past 2 months, and I very rarely
have any issues with my second land drop. This is all besides the point though, because we don't even need RR on turn 2 anyway.

I've noticed other decks using off-colored Scrylands to great effect. Do you guys think that some number of red or blue Scrylands would be beneficial? The format is pretty slow right now, and turn 1 mindgames are always fun when available. Some Scrylands like Temple of Malice or Temple of Enlightenment would also fix this mana issue we seem to be having, by fixing draws.

[Toddington]

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ur-spells/

[Pendulum]

No, what I mean is why is Master of Waves getting outed for inclusion in the deck? I consider myself a humble man, so I don't expect you to read my walls of text, and even if you did I'm not going to expect you to take everything I say at face value like I'm some sort of great card analyst, but in my first post I did make sure to give a couple of warnings right at the front of my paragraphs; namely: 1) if you're running it as a burn deck with counterspell backup, it's in danger of being strictly worse than a more proactive deck like WR Burn; and 2) it has to define itself as an archetype that stands out from 'Murica Burn, which has access to a much more diverse spell package.
In that spirit, Master seems like a godsend: it's a proven good card, it's got synergy with other spells in the deck (...you do realize it makes YP$ give you bears,
right?), it's good vs. large swaths of the meta, we've already seen this deck perform in the archetype, and keeping the deck to 2 colors means you're more likely to get value out of the devotion requirements. Any one of these should mean it's worth at least looking at.

[Jasper]

Your points on Master of Waves are valid, and for pure a pure Izzet list, it sounds like it will work. I'm not going to be the one to test it, but I'd love to hear about any testing done with it. I only really play paper, and I don't feel like investing in MoW. Also, I'm reading everything you are typing, but I didn't really get the implied message that you were still on the idea of including MoW in this deck.

On the topic of Murrica Burn, I just played FNM last night with a RWU Burn deck and went 3-1, only losing in a close 3 matches to Mono Black.

[quote="Toddington » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:45 am"]http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ur-spells/[/quote:
lkrcizly]

Alright, so you were right. I personally don't haven't had any issues running less, so I'm going to continue doing what works for me.

[zenbitz]

I am no expert but I have played a bit with MU splash B or R (black is better) and Boros Burn. It seems like we would want some kind of blue (probably non creature) permanent to get at least 2 2/1s of master.
Basically Ral Zarek, Domestication, Claustraphobia, or Thassa, God of the Sea - or any Jace obviously. Barring Journey spoilers (at least the RU god, Keranos), that is.

I think the old legacy? counterburn deck ran 13 counters, 12 burn spells and 8 card draw - plus 3x prophetic bolt which burn/drew (so analagous to essence backlash which counters+burns.

[Toddington]

Prophetic Bolt is so getting reprinted this set, calling it now. It fits the lore of Keranos from the planeswalkers guide.

I know it's a creature, but I like Frostburn Weird for master synergy. He fits the deck's plan too, control (3/X's) till you can go into the kill phase.

[zenbitz]

thought a little bit more about this... would be interesting to test the following;
0 permanents
4 creatures/4 walkers
12 creatures/4 walkers
20 creatures/MoW mono blue shell.

[zenbitz]

I guess this is officially a thing now with Keranos spoiled.

[Toddington]

I don't wanna get too off topic here, but does anyone reckon there could be like a superfriends deck, but with gods instead of planeswalkers? Keranos does it all, with back up from Thassa and Mogis. This combination of gods gives you a curve! All three of them get devotion from Frostburn Weird and Nightveil Specter. Weird and Specter are not the worst creatures to be running in a control deck. Kill everything that gets played, eventually Mogis and Keranos will kill the opponent, or you'll get gods active and start swinging. Sounds brutal.

[RedNihilist]

Grixis goodstuff deck?
Seems fun!

[zenbitz]

Any thoughts on this post JOU spoilers? It seems like either Ur-devo (+/- pyromancer?) or Ru-counterburn seem OK, but not sure they are tier 2.

Full control would probably splash white. There are a couple of black cards I want (RReturn, Dreadbore, Thoughtseize, Toil//Trouble) ... but not sure it doesn't dilute unless it's a very light splash (like for toil or 1x Rakdos Return).

[BlakLanner]

I am looking into a UWR Midrange/tapout control deck after JOU. Keranos just seems too good not to exploit. I loved the idea of Pyromancer but, while it did steal me games from time to time, it felt clunky overall. Our instants and sorceries are too expensive to seriously flood the board.

This is my starting framework for the midrange. The other option is starting with a control shell and working from that angle.
[deck]
4 Steam Vents
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
3 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Mutavault

4 Frostburn Wierd
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Keranos, God of Storms

3 Ral Zarek
2 Jace, Architect of Thought

3 Turn // Burn
4 Lightning Strike
4 Azorius Charm
2 Izzet Charm
3 Detention Sphere
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Assemble the Legion

Sideboard
2 Wear // Tear
2 Blind Obedience
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Boros Charm
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Counterflux
[/deck]

[zenbitz]

I have been playing more with pyromancer and it does have it's weaknesses... For your deck... I kind of like Phoenix over reckoner.... But I guess you do have a lil' infinite combo going with the charms.

[zenbitz]

I kinda like this one... but I expect it's not great.

[deck]Izzet Value Town[/deck]

[BlakLanner]

I have been playing more with pyromancer and it does have it's weaknesses... For your deck... I kind of like Phoenix over reckoner.... But I guess you do have a lil' infinite combo going with the charms.

The Reckoners are more for defense than attack. They can trade with nearly any creature or redirect a big chunk to the dome. Many opponents will not attack into one. The triple red also allows the off chance of devotion although that is not my main plan. I am thinking that I might want a few Reprisal as well as a cheaper answer to large things.

Your deck is of a completely different style than mine. I assume those exiles are for your own creatures and not your opponent's. How do you survive long enough to make use of them? I don't see many
ways to kill things in your deck.

[nme]

I'll be playing around with this U/R list when JOU is released on Modo:

[deck]Creatures:
1x Aetherling
2x Keranos, God of Storms

Instants:
4x Steam Augury
3x Dissolve
3x Izzet Charm
4x Turn // Burn
3x Quicken
2x Syncopate

Sorceries:
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers:
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Ral Zarek

Artifact:
1 Elixir of Immortality

Land:
7x Island
5x Mountain
2x Mutavault
4x Steam Vents
2x Temple of Enlightenment
4x Temple of Epiphany
2x Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Annul
3x Counterflux
2x Negate
2x Wear // Tear
2x Fated Conflagration
2x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Essence Scatter[/deck]

I'm still not sure about Ral Zarek, but I like the synergy he has with Keranos. I think a white splash is the direction this list wants to go in, but I don't own Sphinx's Rev's or Elspeth, so I figured I'd try U/R first to see if it's
doable. I think Anger of the Gods is going to be pretty strong if Atheros/Weenie decks see a lot of play. Stormbreath Dragon also gets stronger with a lot of Banishing Lights floating around.

[BlakLanner]

I play with a white splash primarily for DSphere and Az Charm. Elspeth is excellent as well. Rev I can take or leave in most fights. Helps against control to keep card parity. Keranos is an absolute beating and Ral is reasonably effective. I would suggest maining some Counterflux. They are the ultimate way to say no to anything. If you are going to stay UR, I suggest some Frostburn Wierd as an additional defense against aggro decks. They stonewall most hyper aggressive strategies, survive Anger, and can act as a beatdown once the board clears.

[nme]

One thing I like about Frostburn Weird is that it turns on Keranos with the right board state. What do you think about 2x Anger, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 4x Frostburn Weird, -3 Quicken?

[BlakLanner]

That might work since you have few sorceries that can benefit from Quicken. I would probably shave to 2 Izzet Charm and keep the 3rd Anger though since that is your only sweeper. How does your deck answer threats from GR(x) Monsters and the larger GW decks?

[nme]

Turn // Burn and Fated Conflagration mostly, but some combination of Keranos, Ral Zareks -2 and/or burn can take out a large creature that sneaks past permission. I considered a couple Spite of Mogis in place of Fated Conflagration, because if there's one thing this deck can do well is it can fill up the graveyard with instants. I think Fated Conflagration would be more consistent though.