[Primer] Boros Burn

[LP, of the Fires]

Turns out Zs just an LP gimmick.

[Pedros]

Wha kind of sweet BG deck? You dont mean Dredge that you said is awful.

[Shadowlink]

Hey, been lurking here for a week or so and playing this deck in local tournaments. Its interesting when you realize just how meta dependent it is. A lot of the shifts in design have been great, but some I've decided to ignore based on the agro heavy my local scene tends to be (Searing Blood and Satyr Fire-dancer both do a lot of work for me, even though I probably wouldn't run them in a PTQ or GP).
A couple things I've noticed:
Young Pyromancer is pretty ridiculous against most match ups. At his very worst, he's a 2 mana 'must answer' creature that doesn't even cost RR, and at his best he just wins the whole game for you. I'll be running him as a 4 of main for the time being.
Searing Blood is very situational (big surprise, right?), but when I'm looking at a hand with boros charm / skull crack, its nice to have something to deal with creatures. I feel like this deck needs to be changing and adapting all the
time, not just to the meta, but against your current opponent, and Searing Blood opens up a lot of options, though I know it can sometimes be a game 1 dead card too. At this point I feel like Ash Zealot has just about as many upsides and downsides as this card, so if my meta stays heavy agro, blood is probably just better.
Shock is always just 'ok'. It gained some value with Pyromancers, but I am really hoping for a shock + scry 1 in JTN. Probably wont happen, but still hoping.

It feels like the people I've been playing against are either not prepared for this deck and lose to it, or are trying to play it but don't understand how its supposed to work. Hopefully there is a bigger tournament in the Northern California area to try it out, because the deck is making me enjoy standard again. This forum is also keeping me entertainted through my work day, so thank you all for that. Looking forward to more content from Zem as well.

[sin]

Wha kind of sweet BG deck? You dont mean Dredge that you said is awful.

I assumed ari lax's gp cinci deck

[zemanjaski]

Wha kind of sweet BG deck? You dont mean Dredge that you said is awful.

MBC with Reaper, Abrupt Decay, Vraska. It looked fantastic. Was running UG Scrylands to cast Specter and green cards.

[zemanjaski]

No I remain adamant that dredge sucks.

[zemanjaski]

Welcome aboard Shadowlink. If my content you mean vague statements and anime quotes, you're in luck!

[zemanjaski]

We have a member called mutantcrock - I learn something new everyday.

[LP, of the Fires]

Bg midrange is terrible. I build it at least once a month and its always a worse something else,: cardinal Sin of rebuilding.

Dredge is very good. You just to know how to mulligan and sequence.

[montu]

What's everyone else facing on MTGO?

Here's my last 41 Matches (SE or DE)

6 Bx Devo
4 GR Monsters
4 Esper Control
3 RW Burn
3 GWx Hexproof
3 BR Midrange
3 R Devo
2 BW Control
2 RW Aggro
2 UW Control
2 Bant Midrange
2 Ux Devo
2 Jund Monsters
1 UBG
1 UW Midrange
1 BG Dredge

That's tracking fairly well with what's listed on MTG Goldfish:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard

[Shadowlink]

I mostly meant the CFB content, but the comments and quotes here are good too. Your sig from MTG Salvation brought me over here, which is nice because the forum here on the subject seems a lot more active.

[zemanjaski]

BG is MBC with better cards; much like BW or BR midrange; whether it's worth it to do so is debatable, but Abrupt Decay is a REAL magic card.

Dredge sucks and I've not seen much evidence otherwise. Yes, elite players like Ari and Conley can do decent with it, but that's true of any deck for players of that skill level.

[zemanjaski]

Haha! Taste it Ugly Sally!

[zemanjaski]

I have another article out next week; then ill cover the updated deck the week after, once I've got my 35QPs.

[zemanjaski]

I'd say I plan on recording a premier event but we know what happened last time...

[Kaitscralt]

I'll keep you awake

[Elricity]

What's everyone else facing on MTGO?

Here's my last 41 Matches (SE or DE)

6 Bx Devo
4 GR Monsters
4 Esper Control
3 RW Burn
3 GWx Hexproof
3 BR Midrange
3 R Devo
2 BW Control
2 RW Aggro
2 UW Control
2 Bant Midrange
2 Ux Devo
2 Jund Monsters
1 UBG
1 UW Midrange
1 BG Dredge

That's tracking fairly well with what's listed on MTG Goldfish:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard

Something I've always wondered. Are you guys just keeping track of stats
in a notepad or is there a easy way to reference in mtgo?

[BiddingMaster]

i took a uwr control decklist that josh utter leyton wrote a primer for to the scg open in nashville and kicked myself every game i didnt trust my own judgement. It was awful. I could write a book detailing the depths of my sorrow. I digress, a guy played a mono black devotion deck with golgari charms/mistcutters/abupt decay. Im not sure what list your are talking about zem but i feel like the matchup was really not in my favor. I felt like it was the best splash with mono black because the damned deck could come out of nowhere and it has so many answers and i certainly was not prepared to deal with it. He ended up closing game three after 9ning me with a mistcutter which i verdicted and then promptly died to golgari charm on my d sphere with 2 greymerchants under them. When he played it i had to read the card because literally i had never read the card before. I had no idea it could eat enchantments.

[LaZerBurn]

What's everyone else facing on MTGO?

Here's my last 41 Matches (SE or DE)

6 Bx Devo
4 GR Monsters
4 Esper Control
3 RW Burn
3 GWx Hexproof
3 BR Midrange
3 R Devo
2 BW Control
2 RW Aggro
2 UW Control
2 Bant Midrange
2 Ux Devo
2 Jund Monsters
1 UBG
1 UW Midrange
1 BG Dredge

That's tracking fairly well with what's listed on MTG Goldfish:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard

Something I've always wondered. Are you guys just keeping track of stats in a notepad or is there a easy way to reference in mtgo?

Spreadsheet for me, just started a new one for this Season yesterday.

[PrimalBurn]

So I am most likely playing this at FNM

[DECK]
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault

4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
2 Searing Blood
3 Warleader's Helix

2 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard
1 Young Pyromancer
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
1 Warleader's Helix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Wear/Tear
1 Assemble the Legion
[/DECK]

I cut 2 searing bloods from the main the make room for 2 chained. My meta is heavier on the aggro side so I'm not sure it that's the right call any suggestions on that would be appreciated. Also I do see GW from time to time so thinking about just going to 2 glares instead of wear/tear, thoughts?

[BiddingMaster]

so what decklist for boros burn should I be running for my scg open in charlotte nc this weekend. The last list on this page? I think I like it the best out of all of them anyway. Also do I sideboard similarly to the last video posted on channelfireball? It seems that way because the sideboard is very simillar and I think I can get a handle on it but any imput would help out alot. Thnx guys. On a side note you guys dont want to know what ive have been seeing on modo lately. In my first 2 daily events this week i faced off against maze's end twice round one. I can go through all of my recorded games and let you guys know what ive been facing. as far as i know ive seem 4 bw midrange and 2 mono black. i beleive off the top of my head.

[tzir]

Zem's new maindeck looks really well-suited for my meta. The more intricate sideboard has me a bit hesitant, though. Does it go something like this?

UWx control: +1 Chandra, +1 Glare, +1 Mutavault, +4 Cackler, +1 Pyro // -2 Chained, -2 Magma Jet, -4 Shock
MBC: +1 Assemble, +1 Chained, +4 Cackler, +1 Pyro // -4 Shock, -3 Magma Jet (or -3 Phoenix if they've got Nightveil?)
Bw: +1 BO, +1 Chandra, +1 Glare, +1 Mutavault, +1 Pyro // -1 Chained, -4 Shock
Monsters: +1 BO, +2 Mortars, +1 Spark, +1 Pyro // -4 Ash, -1 Skullcrack
Mono-U: lol
Wx/Rx aggro/other aggro: +1 BO, +1 Chandra, +1 Pyro, +1 Helix // -4 Skullcrack
Mirror: +1 BO, +1 Chained, +1 Chandra, +1 Helix // -4 Ash

I cut 2 searing bloods from the main the make room for 2 chained. My meta is heavier
on the aggro side so I'm not sure it that's the right call any suggestions on that would be appreciated. Also I do see GW from time to time so thinking about just going to 2 glares instead of wear/tear, thoughts?

If you're heavier on aggro, Searing Blood gets better. I might move a Skullcrack to the side for a third Searing Blood.

[montu]

Something I've always wondered. Are you guys just keeping track of stats in a notepad or is there a easy way to reference in mtgo?

Spreadsheet for me, just started a new one for this Season yesterday.

I use google docs. Originally, I tried to capture all sorts of stats (date, opp name, on play/draw, ending life totals for each game, etc.)

Now, it's just:

Tournament Type - Opp's Deck - W or L - In How Many Games - Ticket Spent or Won (i.e, packs value) - Short notes on occasion

[DXI-Edge]

I dont think you should bring in Cackler vs. Mono-Black

using Zems current list, bringing in 1 YP, 1 Chandra, 1 Chained and 1 Assemble for 4 shock is good enough

[Elricity]

Couldn't begin to tell you what the meta is like at scg charlotte. What do you expect to face? This deck is extraordinarily meta dependent.

I still haven't exactly decided what to take to FNM yet. Probably the Z build because I can be comfortable with it but I'm expecting boros reckoners in the mirror which is fine, it just means I cut some magma jets or something for the full set of chains and a single glare. Or I just don't bring in cacklers unless I'm on the play, anything works. I've always loved YP in my burn decks so that's not even an issue. I'd like to believe I convinced Z to pick back up the card (I'm sure I didn't). If I can fit a second blind obedience in, I probably will only because of the before mentioned mirror and if I have to play vs my friend's monsters deck again. We'll see when I get there.

DXI, I would definitely bring in cackler vs mono black on the play because they can't kill your
creatures quick enough. On the draw, I might even sub out some ash zealots for mortars if I think they want to try the packrat plan. I want enough removal against that card so that I goad them into continually discarding for it without it getting out of control.

Generally I like bringing dancers because there's always some odd midrange deck but to be honest, I can beat them without the card because unfortunately, the people that bring them aren't that great of players. I really should start trying to go on Mondays where the competition is supposedly higher caliber. Lower turnout though so lower payouts and it's easier to go out on a Friday for me.

[Elricity]

Coming back to the Jace vs YP discussion.

I get both sides of the argument here and I've bounced back and forth on it myself. Hell, for a time I got tempted to board out phoenixes which is probably madness but I was trying to blank Jace, syncopate and dsphere.

Anyway, main question. I get that vs creatures the goal is to tick up to ultimate which plays well against the tokens. But if YP is in play, isn't he keeping his loyalty exactly in check? I'm assuming you mean you kill it, a couple tokens get made, you play Jace and blank the tokens because they're nothing else around? Because otherwise, Jace really is just an expensive pacifism vs YP.

[Jediace42]

So I have to ask, What do my fellow burn players think of Craig Wescoe's Article today about tuning a burn list?

[PrimalBurn]

Ok one final choice on maindeck changes. Keep in mind this is all based on a local meta more on the aggro side. I either want to play 2 shock 3 searing blood or 3 shock 2 searing blood. They both kill the same kinds of targets. My thinking is that you have the potential to get more value out of searing blood but shock seems like less of a dead draw in certain match ups since it at least always does 2 to the face. Any thoughts?

[montu]

So I have to ask, What do my fellow burn players think of Craig Wescoe's Article today about tuning a burn list?

For reference: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11718

Wow, I love what he did there. Some good thoughts.

Also relevant was one of the comments, speaking about MTGO: "I think the rise of Boros Aggro/Burn is going to put a lot of Esper and B/W Control decks back on Last Breath as removal." That's exactly what I've been experiencing.

[montu]

Wescoe's take on 4 Mutavaults:

"The biggest decision I had to make with the lands was whether to run the tenth mountain or the fourth Mutavault. I chose Mutavault because it helps more when flooding and will help us cast Warleader's Helix and Stormbreath Dragon just as easily as Mountain would. The drawback is not being able to cast Ash Zealot on the second turn as often, but this means we kept a two-land hand, which is therefore likely very burn-heavy and we're probably in good shape anyway without needing to cast the Zealot right away."

[Redzone]

"

Wild Ricochet is a maverick style card, especially for the mirror. It is high variance and narrow, so when you pull it off your opponent will be prone to tilt off, flip tables, and break things within arm's reach. Most of the time it will just sit in your sideboard though. If you're the guy (or gal) that loves nothing better than causing people to flip tables, then run it. If instead you're a spike, it's not worth the slot. The fact that it's in redzone91's sideboard at least tips us all off as to what kind of player he is. He probably takes screenshots of his opponents ranting and posts them to Facebook for all his friends to laugh at (btw who does that anyway?)."

Heh, I like him. Sadly noone ever raged about anything other than "I got flooded or mana screwed"

[JohnnyfnB]

So I have to ask, What do my fellow burn players think of Craig Wescoe's Article today about tuning a burn list?

First off, I think he is a great player, especially white weenie aggro. Secondly, I enjoy his articles and his sometimes different view of things. That being said, all he did was crunch numbers by adding several decks together and coming up with a deck list with averaged numbers. I don't really have a problem with that, it's his explanation of SB cards and why or why not to use them. Without him testing them in the build, he really shouldn't say a card is bad or good for that matter with out testing. That's what we do here. Yes we make a suggestion and test it, then we pass judgment.

[Notalec]

I love SBD as a card, but I'm not sure he's what we want in this deck. I don't think we want to be tapping out that late in the game against control, and monsters always seems to have a fight or a mortars to deal with him.

[Kaitscralt]

i do that, craig wescoe

[montu]

I love SBD as a card, but I'm not sure he's what we want in this deck. I don't think we want to be tapping out that late in the game against control, and monsters always seems to have a fight or a mortars to deal with him.

I agree on the one hand . . . on the other . . . how many times have you not quite been able to finish off a control deck. We've all been there . . . nothing we draw is going to win once they turn the game. At least SBD has a bit better chance, even if it is hard to pull off.

[zenbitz]

Isn't his average deck exactly Zem's minus 10 days with a Dragon > Shock? Not that I think it was a useless article, but people should instead read 67 pages of this thread! I kinda think he threw in Stormbreath because he felt like a "real" standard deck ought to run at least one overpriced standard mainstay -- aka "good card". Well, in addition to mutavaults.

[Kaitscralt]

his article was great, and Zem's list is a a much a variation of other people's as vice versa

stormbreath is good, it always warrants more testing

[JohnnyfnB]

his article was great, and Zem's list is a a much a variation of other people's as vice versa

stormbreath is good, it always warrants more testing

I agree, but me personally, if I were to add in SBD, I would want to add 2 more mana. I can totally see holding that bad oscar in my hand without enough mana to cast it. I know we could scry for the lands we need, but depending on the game, that might not be what we need and we would be forcing a card. I love SBD, I have a play set wanting to see action, but I agree it doesn't fit this current gen.

[Kaitscralt]

not with everyone and their special needs nephew sideboarding BO

[Kaitscralt]

the anti-red equipment