[Primer] Boros Burn

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd also replace the wear/tear with Glare of heresy.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah with Esper established as "the best deck" that makes a LOT of sense to me. DONE.

[zemanjaski]

Oh fuck me, you're boarding into 95% of the old walter white anti red build.

If it ain't broke...

[LP, of the Fires]

Are you trying to get me to play this deck? Cause all the recent changes are pulling me.

[MisterMet]

I really need an explanation of how a deck with 22 lands runs 3 Stormbreath Dragon, 2 Chandra, Pyromaster and 4 Warleader's Helix. In an 8-man there isn't enough data to draw a conclusion, but cutting a land and adding higher drops seems wrong to me fundamentally. I can only imagine that you were running 24 and missed two of them.

Given that the rest of the deck is 36 cards, I'll assume you had 4 Mutavault?
Interesting list, 3 SBD seems high to me and the lack of Shock is not terribly shocking, but the card does obviously play well with YP.

My mistake. That was supposed to be four Temple of Triumph's, not two.

Stormbreath Dragon has been great against Monsters and non-burn aggro.

As for not having Shock, that has been a mixed bag
and if I do bring it back in the deck it would replace Searing Blood. SB has helped with racing my opponent but more than a few times I have been on the draw and my opponent had a turn 1 elf or Judge's Familiar.

[LaZerBurn]

This will be my Invi list.

[deck]
4 Chandra Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot
3 YP$

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
3 Chained to the Rocks

2 Guildgates
8 RW Lands
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault

SB
1 Assemble
1 Mutavault
1 Burning Earth
4 Rakdos Crackler
2 Mortars
2 Blind Obediance
1 Spark Trooper
1 WLH
1 Glare of Heresy
[/deck]

Put another card in your SB Purp, I think it's the 4th YP ?

[zemanjaski]

Burning Earth got a LOT better with more creatures in the deck too.

[LP, of the Fires]

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous and inconsistent sideboard I have ever seen. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid.

I'll reference an even sillier Adam Sandler movie next time so my sincerity isn't questionable.

Well, to quote PV, "If you're going to be rude, at least be right."

If you think the sideboard
is inconsistent and/or bad you're either:

1) An infant in competitive magic
2) FAR too conservative
3) Myopic
4) less good then you think you are

The cards may not all be exactly right, but the board is definitely cohesive and the deck has a non insignificant amount of library manipulation. Jamming 4 of's in your board is only something you do when either your sideboard's generally gonna suck(most mono-red aggro decks), or your deck doesn't care about textboxes(MBC).

[Redzone]

I'll try some of this new stuff, it sounds like it could work.
I probably wont try the burning earth sideboard though, having a 1-of means I wont draw it early much, and it's not a gamechanging topdeck later on (like wild ricochet )

[Purp]

Thx Lazer, edited it.

[deck]4 Chandra Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot
3 YP$

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
3 Chained to the Rocks

2 Guildgates
8 RW Lands
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault

SB
1 Assemble
1 Mutavault
1 Burning Earth
4 Rakdos Crackler
2 Mortars
2 Blind Obediance
1 Spark Trooper
1 WLH
2 Glare of Heresy[/deck]

SB:
Monsters Variant: -4 Ash, -4 Skullcrack +2 Mortars, +2 BO, +1 WLH +1 Spark - uh oh I need two more cards for this....
Esper: -3 Chain, -3 WLH, -2 Shock +2 Glare +1 BE +1 Muta +4 Cackler

Not as smooth as I'd like, going to make edits.

[Elricity]

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous and inconsistent sideboard I have ever seen. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid.

I'll reference an even sillier Adam Sandler movie next
time so my sincerity isn't questionable.

Well, to quote PV, "If you're going to be rude, at least be right."

Civility on DTR? Hah! Though I think you're being a bit hard on him.

Anyway, thinking through the line of play vs the mirror that actually doesn't want skullcrack. I see it but damn is that scary. Though I guess if you're keeping them off board presence while establishing yours, you really don't give a fuck about them gaining 4. Hmm, that means next evolution is frostburn weird. Oh god, it's delver wars all over again.

Redzone, I keep asking this but seriously, other than maybe, maybe the mirror, what is wild ricochet good for?

Purp, drop a glare for 4th YP or 4th chain, bring him in vs monsters. Seriously, do both and you have 8 cards. And the esper board looks fine. You could bring in two mortars vs BBV or thune and cut two more shocks. Which is a shame because with CP and YP, shock actually isn't that bad. So, screw the mortars in
my opinion.

[Purp]

Chain!!!! Thats what I am missing.

[deck]
4 Chandra Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot
3 YP$

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
3 Chained to the Rocks

2 Guildgates
8 RW Lands
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault

SB
1 Assemble
1 Mutavault
1 Burning Earth
4 Rakdos Crackler
2 Mortars
2 Blind Obediance
1 Spark Trooper
1 WLH
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

Maybe I'll leave in a Skullcrack, or bring in Burning Earth on the play.

[Elricity]

This is one of the reasons I'm pretty sure Z cut BO to 1. I tend to agree with him, I've had it in hand when I can't really do anything with it right away. It's a fine late game play to stabilize. Also, now you need to rework esper =p. +1 mortar/glare now.

[LP, of the Fires]

[deck]Purp and Zem Burn on 27-March-14[/deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Muavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Blind Obedience
1 Burning Earth
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Cackler
1 Spark Trooper
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

Channeling Zem, if I ran this board, my Monsters plan:

If straight RG: -4 Skullcrack, -4 Ash zealot, +1 YP, +1 warleaders Helix, + 2 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Blind Obediance, +1 Chained the The Rocks, +1 Spark Trooper, +1 Mutavault(more
land is better for extra extort triggers, higher curve, and potential mortars overload)

If Jund Monsters, cut a borors charm for a burning earth.

Vs. Esper: -4 Shock, -3 Chained to the rocks, +1 glare, + 4 Cackler, +1 Mutavault, +1 Burning earth.

Vs. Mirror: -4 skullcrack, -4 boros charm, + 1 YP, + 4 cackler, + 1 chain, + 1 Warleaders Helix, 1 Blind Obediance.

Still not sure how I like boarding vs. mono-black. I know I want assemble, chain, mortars, and probably YP, not sure if I want cacklers or no or what to board out. I'd start with shock and probably shave numbers from there.

[Purp]

I expect obzedat and the mirror to be very popular at the invitational/open this weekend, which is why I like 2 BO.

[Purp]

[deck]Purp and Zem Burn on 27-March-14[/deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Muavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Blind Obedience
1 Burning Earth
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Cackler
1 Spark Trooper
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

Channeling Zem, if I ran this board, my Monsters plan:

If
straight RG: -4 Skullcrack, -4 Ash zealot, +1 YP, +1 warleaders Helix, + 2 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Blind Obediance, +1 Chained the The Rocks, +1 Spark Trooper, +1 Mutavault(more land is better for extra extort triggers, higher curve, and potential mortars overload)

If Jund Monsters, cut a borors charm for a burning earth.

Vs. Esper: -4 Shock, -3 Chained to the rocks, +1 glare, + 4 Cackler, +1 Mutavault, +1 Burning earth.

Vs. Mirror: -4 skullcrack, -4 boros charm, + 1 YP, + 4 cackler, + 1 chain, + 1 Warleaders Helix, 1 Blind Obediance.

Still not sure how I like boarding vs. mono-black. I know I want assemble, chain, mortars, and probably YP, not sure if I want cacklers or no or what to board out. I'd start with shock and probably shave numbers from there.

id be cutting a number of helixs over shock vs control. i don't want mortars on the play vs black, sure on the draw.

[LP, of the Fires]

YP makes shock closer to reasonable and it doesn't tie up your mana heinously, but 4 damage is a 1/5th of 20 which is a lot.

[Purp]

YP makes shock closer to reasonable and it doesn't tie up your mana heinously, but 4 damage is a 1/5th of 20 which is a lot.

2x Shock is 2 mana + tokens.

[LP, of the Fires]

Thing is, I don't ever want to draw 2 shocks vs. control...ever. Drawing 2 helix's isn't optimal either, but the games going at least 5/6 turns regularly and I can expect to resolve one which gives me 2 shocks for 1 card. With the curve being generally low anyways, it's not like I'm finding myself without things to do in the middle turns. That plus from our end, CA is relevant as we don't want to be gassed going into the latter stages of the game. When your second best opener vs. control is mutavault attacking on turn 2, you have to consider the games as somewhat grindy and plan accordingly.

Sure you have the cackler>zealot, hold up lethal for the rest of the game draws, but that's only part of it. If anything, I'd leave in 2 shocks max, erring on the side of one. I'll test that tonight at your recommendation just in case I'm being an ass and am completely wrong.

[Purp]

Then again, I think it's also a matter of playstyle preference. I don't think one is more correct than the other, i have just found that I REALLY enjoy casting multiple spells a turn.

[Redzone]

Redzone, I keep asking this but seriously, other than maybe, maybe the mirror, what is wild ricochet good for?

Maybe the mirror? It's basically the " I win" card in the mirror.
Its also had its uses in esper whenever I drew it, whether it be redirecting a last breath from my phoenix to my mutavault or countering a counter in long drawn out games where you have that skullcrack in hand, and it gets to the point where he has enough mana to protect his rev with counters.

[Purp]

Wild Riccochet Magma Jet seems fun. Not sure if I like it verse control.

[Redzone]

I'm not saying that its better than burning earth vs control, it almost definitely isnt.
But aside from esper/uw control I dont see a matchup where I'd be happy to topdeck burning earth late in the game, whereas ricochet is never a bad topdeck later on. (Even if it's just to copy your own spell, you can do that too)

[Kaitscralt]

I am extremely excited to have young pyro back. He is a boss.

me too, standard has been shitty since young pyromancer got banned, it's so annoying when you want to play a card but JUST CAN'T

[Kaitscralt]

that last unbanning saved us all

[cloudscraper]

I keep finding myself colorscrewed with just 10 white sources. Of the last 14 matches played (4 rounds today, 5 rounds last saturday, 5 rounds previous week) i've lost 6 games ENTIRELY due to having no white mana. For example today I lost 2 distinct games against WB Midrange with multiple white burn spells in hand and my opponent at < 5 life.

Maybe it's me: do you mulligan hands without white mana if they include even a single white card?

[DXI-Edge]

DONT RUN BURNING EARTH

TRUST ME. ITS ACTUALLY REALLY REALLY BAD RIGHT NOW.

/rant

[Purp]

Explain how a one of BE is bad vs Esper? I am not saying its GREAT, it could just be another Glare...but how is it really bad right now?

[Elricity]

Since we're on the creature plan, shock is also extraordinarily useful for countering detention sphere. I actually agree with Purp. You want to avoid tapping out for helix anyway and your creatures are doing all the work so the +2 damage is actually less relevant. You also want the YP so -2 shock, -3 helix, -3 chain gets you your board there. If you do that, you absolutely have to make sure that your line of play causes turn 5-6 BBV or obzedat to just straight kill them. Helix doesn't help with that either so say fuck it and go with the berzerker charge. Intelligently, of course.

Mono black is easy. You cut shocks and magma jets instantly.

Vs jund, you don't want the spark trooper. You do want the boros charm to protect chains.

Red, you're not realistically copying your own spells or countermagic with ricochet on 24 lands. Only american control could get away with that consistantly. And I guarantee you, no good
burn player is letting you get a way with "I win" by hitting helix because they're not going to want to run it into skullcrack anyway. I can see hitting boros charm but I think I can make you tap low to sneak those through too. I could be wrong but I just don't see it. Sure, it's I win vs bad players but let's be honest, you were winning that game anyway.

[magicdownunder]

Here are some old and outdated videos:

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6884840)
Standard Elimination R1 Blind Zurm vs UW Control Event 6884840
Standard Elimination R2 Blind Zurm vs Bx Devotionl Event 6884840
Standard Elimination R3 Split

I can't recall the list but its a Blind Obedience + Z Burn list (hence Blind Zurm) which is good since MODO is has a huge burn infestation.

I still like Searing Blood since its decent vs current Bx list, ok vs control and is solid against aggro (Jund only take 5th places in terms of MODO winnings, though searing isn't horrible in that MU) + I still like the Dancers which I don't think you
want to play in combination with YP$.

[Elricity]

I still like the Dancers which I don't think you want to play in combination with YP$.

It's fun in FNM when you're facing a lot of durdly midrange decks that can otherwise make your plans kinda bad. I wouldn't do it in serious play right now unless GW somehow finds a way back in. Fuck Trostani.

@DXI and Purp: I'm assuming you mean 4 mana sorcery into counterspells and/or D-sphere target with regards to burning earth?

[magicdownunder]

Were you referring to Dancer + YP$ or just dancer in general? If its the latter - I still see Ux Devotion and Esper Midrange online (I don't play FNM, somehow the thought of playing FNM annoys me), not in swarms but enough to justify dancers - YP$ I'll admit has more wider applications but dancer kinda just ends those games.

[DXI-Edge]

Not only that guys, but I want to paint a picture for you:

Your oppponent taps all his mana. He then says "add burning earth triggers to the stack, in response sphinx's rev. Then they d-sphere it.

It just became a glorified, 4 mana sorcery skullcrack. Yaaaaaay....

Besides, our plan against esper isnt to resolve a 4 mana spell at sorcery speed. Its to resolve cheap creatures early, then always hold up skullcrack later.

[Purp]

Your oppponent taps all his mana. He then says "add burning earth triggers to the stack, in response sphinx's rev. Then they d-sphere it.

This is your reason for not like a 1 of burning earth?.

[tzir]

I was being facetious about the sideboarding article, no one would read it even if I wrote it.

I would! Because I'm embarrassingly bad at sideboarding.

[Redzone]

wouldnt each burning earth trigger have to resolve before he could tap the next land?

[cloudscraper]

Purp, how do you approach monoblack / bw?

I have had a lot of success with the man plan while on the play against monoblack, obviously in particular with the 6 one-drops sideboard, hence i'm willing to cut glare of heresy for a Firedrinker, but... I see it MUCH harder to win on the draw.

Today I've tested extensively against a buddy with BW Midrange, admittedly he was playing Blind Obedience and drew it in 66% of our games, but it was a catastrophe for me... I feel like i'm misinterpreting my role or messing up with the matchup.

How often do you burn a t2 pack rat while on the draw? Can we realistically beat Obzedat without Skullcrack in our hand or 2+ creatures on board?

[DXI-Edge]

Your oppponent taps all his mana. He then says "add burning earth triggers to the stack, in response sphinx's rev. Then they d-sphere it.

This is your reason for not like a 1 of burning earth?.

Thats just one of the reasons.

ITS A BAD CARD is a pretty fucking good reason lol

[Elricity]

Were you referring to Dancer + YP$ or just dancer in general? If its the latter - I still see Ux Devotion and Esper Midrange online (I don't play FNM, somehow the thought of playing FNM annoys me), not in swarms but enough to justify dancers - YP$ I'll admit has more wider applications but dancer kinda just ends those games.

I meant both and I did it last Friday because FNM always has some midrange jank. Burn a player, kill a dude, make a token? I mean, why not? I'm not certain about YP vs mono blue though.

@DXI - I see it though hopefully you're playing it early enough that sphinx is off the table. It's certainly a possibility to hit them with while they're dealing with all your other threats though.

@Red - You dont' have to pass
priority until you want to, ever. So load up on as many instant triggers as you want and then first in last out. Also, mana sources don't use the stack/priority system.

@Cloud - Mono black and black white are quite different decks. The answer to whether you kill an early pack rat is if you have enough removal to keep it under control. You want him to go on the pack rat plan when it means each card in his deck reads "[mana]B2[/mana] Summon Rat. Flash. 1/1." As for your role, you're the beatdown deck. Is your strongest card better than his strongest card? No? Kill him first. Yes? Burn his cards, play your better card.

See the mirror: Skullcrack/helix = control. Creatures/no skullcrack = beatdown. Helix is the strongest card in the matchup but one player has a counterspell for it. So make helix not matter. Etc.

[Purp]

What do you think the % of that incredibly unlikely scenario happening compared to chances of it doing at least 3 damage to our opponent?