[Primer] Boros Burn

[Elricity]

He decided to just not worry about it. Also, mending touch or boros charm can both mean that you may only be smoking an enchantment or two.

It's also probably a bit too reactive and slow which generally dilutes the game plan. We're mostly on the plan of adjusting our threats to the shaping meta so that people's cards are blank (see 1 drops vs burn against blind obedience). That is, assuming, the meta keeps up with our hyperspeed and doesn't end up having 52 versions. I wouldn't mind trying it personally although I haven't thought enough about what would board out to board in for the bombs. It can be an
awful topdeck though.

I doubt I'll put it in until after SCG Milwaukee . . . just thinking out loud as I consider various SB options.

The biggest conundrum is what's the best MB for a field of UWx Control, GRx Monsters, B/W Midrange, and R/W Burn.

I'm currently including Drinker and Dancer MB, which splits the middle with that meta (and is solid against Bx and Ux Devo). The problem is Drinker is such a liability against Mortars and burn in general, and Dancer is a dud in UWx Control.

In addition, Dancer and Searing Blood sucks bad with UWx Control, but is so good against Monsters and can pull some miracles against B/W Midrange, and of course smacks down many other matchups.

So, yeah, I really dunno.

If you haven't already put in YP, it's good versus all 4.

Johnny, what's the sideboard look like? The maindeck only has 11 creatures and generally is only boarding up to 16-18 max. It's a shock with scry so there's that and
can do cute combat tricks. However, I can see that one rotting too. I certainly wouldn't consider it game 1. Strikes me way more as a pyroblack spell.

[montu]

Johnny, what's the sideboard look like? The maindeck only has 11 creatures and generally is only boarding up to 16-18 max. It's a shock with scry so there's that and can do cute combat tricks. However, I can see that one rotting too. I certainly wouldn't consider it game 1. Strikes me way more as a pyroblack spell.

I'd have to agree it is not as strong as it seems. First, not enough creatures. Second, there's too much removal.

[BurnItAllClean]

Try swapping out Searing Blood for Titan's Strength. What little testing I have done today has been positive. The deck seems faster. That probably is me, but would like to hear what other people have to say about that and test it themselves.

I'm skeptical, but I'm going to give it a shot tonight. I have a feeling it's going to sit dead in my hand for the most part, but we shall see.

P.S. Someone should send me a clan invite. I wants it. My MTGO name is the same as it is here.

[Khaospawn]

I think the questions you guys need to be asking yourselves when it comes to sideboard specific cards for certain matchups are these:

1) Does it deal damage to opponent? (ex - Spark Trooper, Firedrinker Satyr, Viashino Firstblade)

2) Does it completely invalidate my opponent's strategy or, at the least, hinder them in a big way? (ex - Burning Earth, Assemble the Legion, Blind obedience ((bonus in that it does deal more damage with extort triggers)) )

3) Does it synergize well with my burn or give me extra value out of the cards I'm already playing? (ex- Satry Firedancer, Young Pyromancer)

4) Does it answer specific problem cards that can invalidate my own strategy? (ex - Chained to the Rocks, Mizzium Mortars, Fated Conflagration for Obzedat, Polukranos, Stormbreath Dragon, Desecration Demon, etc)

5) Will these changes alter my strategy? If so, how? These changes must be within the limitations of your overall
strategy. (ex - sideboarding in more creature to become aggressive, sidebarding in more burn/hoser cards to play "control")

6) Can these sideboard cards make me faster? (ex - Blind obedience, while setting you back a turn, will slow your opponent down even more, thus making you "faster.")



I think that if a card can meet the criteria of at least 2 of these questions, it's probably good. Therefore, things like Ratchet Bomb obviously don't make the cut since it doesn't make you faster, answer anything specific, doesn't deal damage, etc.

[Khaospawn]

I should probably add another question:

7) Can the card win the game on its own? (ex - Burning Earth, Assemble the Legion, any creature suitable for the matchup)

[Elricity]

Akroan Hoplite

Shitty bear or scary closer with YP that makes Jace even more terrible?

I'm assuming former as it takes another creature just to make it on par with gore-house.

[JohnnyfnB]

Akroan Hoplite

Shitty bear or scary closer with YP that makes Jace even more terrible?

That card crossed my mind as well as Truefire Paladin. I decided against both. Truefire Paladin can stand on his own, while Akroan Hoplite requires help from YP and the boyz.

[Elricity]

Truefire needs a more balanced mana pool to make him good and frankly I only ever really loved him because of silverblade.

Also, this deck does not want firebreathing.

[Purp]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

[Staind Diablo]

Purp- I have been happy with my testing of BOTH AZ and YP md. I cut a couple searing blood and a helix, and run 4 AZ and 3 YP (I only run a couple shock, but am messing with the numbers). I am sure my build is not quite optimal yet, but I have been very happy with the extra creature threats and having options that fit the situation has been strong for me.

[Elricity]

We're probably going to end up needing multiple builds regardless. The deck is easy to stop if you stop being a moving target. The whole goal has been to make X cards bad to win and right now, we're actively screwing up the meta with the deck.

[montu]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

There's no way I'm cutting Ashley. Gets in damage so quickly. So many combat tricks.

[BurnItAllClean]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

There's no way I'm cutting Ashley. Gets in damage so quickly. So many combat tricks.

Why don't we test something like this?

[deck] Creatures[/deck]

Then we can add/remove a YP$ or Ashley post board.

[Staind Diablo]

That's pretty close to what I have been playing, just 3 YP, 4 CP, and 4 AZ. 3/4/3 might work too. Like I said, I realize my build may not quite be optimal yet, but I like the creatures for sure. Test it out with both md and let us know what you think. I am on board with somewhere between the 10-12 creatures md. I do sb out AZ or YP when not good, and I have found this md version is a lot better against control and MBx, which are the main ones I want to be strong against. I also have had gl with YP against Monsters, but need more testing.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

There's no way I'm cutting Ashley. Gets in damage so quickly. So many combat tricks.

Why don't we test something like this?

[deck] Creatures[/deck]
Then we can add/remove a YP$ or Ashley post board.

What burn are you
removing to fit in YP$?

[JohnnyfnB]

Honestly guys, you should use what creature you get the best results with for your specific meta. Everyone here plays at different places against different decks. We all have different play styles and skill levels. As a group we can decide that "X" card is better overall than "Y" card in certain situations, but IMHO I think that this build is like fire (no pun intended). It's breathing and constantly changing unlike any other archetype. First determine what you will face in your meta, then adjust the build to fit it. I think that Zem's build (even though it is primarily geared towards MTGO) is "the" skeleton build. Start with that and test, test, test.

[Elricity]

Z has been talking about cutting some/all searing blood I believe. I'm iffy on that but I know where he's coming from.

[JohnnyfnB]

I went to 4 Shocks and 3 Searing Bloods and I was very happy with that. I now am at 4 Shocks and 3 Titan's Strengths. I stated earlier that SB has lost sizzle, now that SFD is out of the main. Many times drawing it late is a dead card, unless you add more resources to it. With Shock, it's always 2 to the dome for 1. If your running YP, you should be running 4 Shocks.

[Elricity]

Sunhome guildmage was about the only other card I found that even looked remotely playable. After what I just said about firebreathing.

[JohnnyfnB]

@ Elricity I still like Everflame Eidolon. I know some people feel that it doesn't fit this build, but it's the most mana friendly and the late game bestow is a nice option.

[Staind Diablo]

I am playing on MTGO only, so that is where my testing and playing is being done. I cut shock to 1, searing to 3, and helix to 3 to squeeze in 3 YP. I am considering raising shock count and maybe decreasing searing tho, because shock seems good with YP. I do like having some searing and probably won't cut them all. I am not exactly positive on how many of each burn is best yet, but I do know I like both YP and AZ main so far.

[Elricity]

@ Elricity I still like Everflame Eidolon. I know some people feel that it doesn't fit this build, but it's the most mana friendly and the late game bestow is a nice option.

To each his own. I'm pretty sure that any lifegain spell says hi though. Right now, I'd only want it vs GR.

[Jasper]

He decided to just not worry about it. Also, mending touch or boros charm can both mean that you may only be smoking an enchantment or two.

It's also probably a bit too reactive and slow which generally dilutes the game plan. We're mostly on the plan of adjusting our threats to the shaping meta so that people's cards are blank (see 1 drops vs burn against blind obedience). That is, assuming, the meta keeps up with our hyperspeed and doesn't end
up having 52 versions. I wouldn't mind trying it personally although I haven't thought enough about what would board out to board in for the bombs. It can be an awful topdeck though.

I doubt I'll put it in until after SCG Milwaukee . . . just thinking out loud as I consider various SB options.

The biggest conundrum is what's the best MB for a field of UWx Control, GRx Monsters, B/W Midrange, and R/W Burn.

I'm currently including Drinker and Dancer MB, which splits the middle with that meta (and is solid against Bx and Ux Devo). The problem is Drinker is such a liability against Mortars and burn in general, and Dancer is a dud in UWx Control.

In addition, Dancer and Searing Blood sucks bad with UWx Control, but is so good against Monsters and can pull some miracles against B/W Midrange, and of course smacks down many other matchups.

So, yeah, I really dunno.

Try swapping out Searing Blood for Titan's Strength. What little
testing I have done today has been positive. The deck seems faster. That probably is me, but would like to hear what other people have to say about that and test it themselves.

On the topic of Titan's Strength. Don't forget that it can also be used on an opponents creature at the end of his turn to fix your next draw.

[BurnItAllClean]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

There's no way I'm cutting Ashley. Gets in damage so quickly. So many combat tricks.

Why don't we test something like this?

[deck] [/deck]
Then we can add/remove a YP$ or Ashley post board.

What burn are you removing to fit in YP$?

[deck] Boros Burns 25-March-14[/deck]

Creatures
3 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Instants
3 Shock
2 Titan's Strength
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Lands
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Blind Obedience
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fated Conflagration
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

This is what I'm going to test out tonight.

[Elricity]

9 white sources?

About using titan's strength on an opponent's creature: That's...not what you want to be doing. Run spark jolt if you want more scry.

Don't run spark jolt.

[BurnItAllClean]

You're absolutely right about the white sources. Idk why I want that extra scry so much. Gonna adjust a bit before testing.

[MisterMet]

After reading the recent discussion on Young Pyromancer and Assemble the Legion, I'm testing this out on mtgo:

[deck]
Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph

Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Young Pyromancer

Burn
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Enchantment
3 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Boros Charm
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Last Breath
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Played in one 8-man and went 3-0. So far it looks like replacing Ash Zealot with Young Pyromancer has helped against the more difficult matchups though I also want to see how this deck will perform against control and monsters.

Round 1 vs.
Hexproof (2-1)
Side in: 1x Boros Charm, 1x Skullcrack, 2x Glare of Heresy, 2x Viashino Firstblade
Side out: 1x Chained to the Rocks, 2x Chandra, Pyromaster, 3x Searing Blood
Won game 1 with Young Pyromancer and tokens. My opponent tilted in game 3 after I cast Glare of Heresy on his Unflinching Courage.

Round 2 vs. U/W Devotion (2-1)
Side in: 1x Chained to the Rocks, 1x Last Breath, 2x Mizzium Mortars
Side out: 3x Skullcrack, 1x Chandra, Pyromaster
He won game 1 after casting three Detention Spheres on two Young Pyromancer's and a Phoenix. Game 2 I was able to remove each of his creatures (including a stolen YP and Phoenix) and then won with Mutavault and Chandra. In game 3 my opponent cast Rapid Hybridization immediately on YP and I was able to get him down to a low enough life total with that and Phoenix to finish him off with burn.

Round 3 vs. Black Devotion (2-0)
Side in: 2x Assemble the Legion, 1x Chained to the Rocks, 1x Mizzium Mortars, 1x Boros Charm, 1x Skullcrack
Side out: 3x
Stormbreath Dragon, 1x Mountain, 2x Searing Blood
I didn't see Young Pyromancer or Assemble either game but I was able to win the old fashioned way: with Phoenix, Chandra and burn.

[zemanjaski]

Z has been talking about cutting some/all searing blood I believe. I'm iffy on that but I know where he's coming from.

It's been a lot worse the last few days; it's really only good against Mono U and bad MBC players (who play into it). Lifebane is maindecked less; control is on the rise, GR only have four natural targets.

Nothing is sacred; I can see cutting some number. The flex spells in the main are: Chained to the Rocks, Searing Blood, Shock.

[zemanjaski]

Let's definitively answer the question of YP$ v Ashley before we trek off into even more unknown territory.

Unless a card is strictly better, then this isn't possible.

I suspect this is a matter of preference and play style.

[Elricity]

I don't play enough mtgo (and of course the night I can, maintainence =\) but I can definitely see it. Like I said, this deck has to work the metagame hardcore or it goes bad quick.

[Nezeru]

After reading the recent discussion on Young Pyromancer and Assemble the Legion, I'm testing this out on mtgo:

[deck]
Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph

Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Young Pyromancer

Burn
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Enchantment
3 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Boros Charm
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Last Breath
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Played in one 8-man and went 3-0. So far it looks like replacing Ash Zealot with
Young Pyromancer has helped against the more difficult matchups though I also want to see how this deck will perform against control and monsters.

Round 1 vs. Hexproof (2-1)
Side in: 1x Boros Charm, 1x Skullcrack, 2x Glare of Heresy, 2x Viashino Firstblade
Side out: 1x Chained to the Rocks, 2x Chandra, Pyromaster, 3x Searing Blood
Won game 1 with Young Pyromancer and tokens. My opponent tilted in game 3 after I cast Glare of Heresy on his Unflinching Courage.

Round 2 vs. U/W Devotion (2-1)
Side in: 1x Chained to the Rocks, 1x Last Breath, 2x Mizzium Mortars
Side out: 3x Skullcrack, 1x Chandra, Pyromaster
He won game 1 after casting three Detention Spheres on two Young Pyromancer's and a Phoenix. Game 2 I was able to remove each of his creatures (including a stolen YP and Phoenix) and then won with Mutavault and Chandra. In game 3 my opponent cast Rapid Hybridization immediately on YP and I was able to get him down to a low enough life total with that and Phoenix to finish him off with burn.

nRound 3 vs. Black Devotion (2-0)
Side in: 2x Assemble the Legion, 1x Chained to the Rocks, 1x Mizzium Mortars, 1x Boros Charm, 1x Skullcrack
Side out: 3x Stormbreath Dragon, 1x Mountain, 2x Searing Blood
I didn't see Young Pyromancer or Assemble either game but I was able to win the old fashioned way: with Phoenix, Chandra and burn.

I really need an explanation of how a deck with 22 lands runs 3 Stormbreath Dragon, 2 Chandra, Pyromaster and 4 Warleader's Helix. In an 8-man there isn't enough data to draw a conclusion, but cutting a land and adding higher drops seems wrong to me fundamentally. I can only imagine that you were running 24 and missed two of them.

Given that the rest of the deck is 36 cards, I'll assume you had 4 Mutavault?
Interesting list, 3 SBD seems high to me and the lack of Shock is not terribly shocking, but the card does obviously play well with YP.

[zemanjaski]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... rw-burn-4/

Follow along with red spellslinger Zemanjaski as he runs RW Burn through a Daily Event.

[Elricity]

So I"m screwing around on cockatrice (sue me) but yeah, I like YP way more than Ash. I rarely got to use Ash for combat tricks anymore so I'm much happier beating on people with elementals. Maybe a playstyle thing.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I tend to get a lot more from Young Pyromancer too, I think playstyle is very relevant (it informs how you evaluate cards in different board states).

[zemanjaski]

Besides, Young Pyromancer is my invitational card; they couldn't have designed a more Zem like card.

[Elricity]

I know in paper, I tend to telegraph very hard. So why not play the line that basically says "you know that I know that you know I have it so can ya stop it or you just going to die in a slow painful fire that you can't escape from?". It's the closest thing to torture I probably have ever done since UB drownyard 2 seasons ago.

Oh, before I forget, to everyone that's trying to make YP better by using Purphoros, just don't. You really don't need more when you're already rage beating people with 4-5 elementals by turn 5. Double YP is broken.

[Elricity]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... rw-burn-4/

Follow along with red spellslinger Zemanjaski as he runs RW Burn through a Daily Event.

So, honest question. Does it take a while to edit these or do you prefer to go with your tested versions to put up on CFB?

[LP, of the Fires]

Agree.

The YP/Purphoros/Assemble deck was very fun and very good, but that deck is completely different to this burn deck we're playing.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Purphoros and Young Pyromancer together is too cutesy. YP$ is a house on his own and with the amount of burn backing the card Purphy is too damn slow.

[zemanjaski]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... rw-burn-4/

Follow along with red spellslinger Zemanjaski as he runs RW Burn through a Daily Event.

So, honest question. Does it take a while to edit these or do you prefer to go with your tested versions to put up on CFB?

They have a budget and schedule through which they release content, so even though that video set was submitted in the middle of last week, there wasn't room in the video schedule / budget until today.