[Primer] Boros Burn

[dauntless268]

@ Lazer: I don't this this is a dumb exercise at all...

No 4th CttR vs Black Devo?
Spark vs. Esper might be a MM to combat BB

Black Devo looks like I wouldn't mind a second Assemble if we can find room...

[amcfvieira]

2 Rw burn in SCG Los Angeles top 16. One in top 4 at least.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... vent_ID=19

Basically the stock 60 and 2 approach to sideboard. What do you think about the 4x Firedancer against Monsters? I see Wijaya crusch a RG Monsters in less than nothing with Firedancer. I had usually 2 Firedancer for that match up but I was very impressed with the games I see it, and maybe consider 4 of.

[BlakLanner]

Straight RG, maybe. Jund, no. They will just kill it on sight.

[JohnnyfnB]

With Blind Obedience making a tsunami, Trouble will be replacing my VFB's and Wear/Tear is strongly considered now. I added in Anger of the Gods and it has been working well so far.

[DXI-Edge]

Try YP instead of Trouble. Good in the same matchups, better in more.

[JohnnyfnB]

Against control YP is pretty much shut down vs Jace on turn 4. They play that, you have a 1/1 and 0/1's. You need to devote resources to deal with Jace. When I hit them with a 5 or 6 point Trouble, that pressure is immense. T2 AZ, T3 Trouble and your opponent is at 11 or 10 already with pressure on board. You now force them to stabilize or die. I can see YP being good against all aggro, great against Mono U and good against Mono Black if you can keep him alive to create tokens. Bile Blight takes care of them.

Blind Obedience now makes VFB garbage.

[Valdarith]

Actually it's the opposite. YP$ makes Jace bad. This has been discussed at length.

[Toddington]

Where has this been discussed at length? As far back as I remember, YP$ was only even considered as a Viashino replacement, and that development occurred in the last few days. Was it in this thread?

[montu]

These are most pleasing

http://i.imgur.com/G9lf3u6.png
http://i.imgur.com/WpvP3Zk.jpg

That's how I feel when losing to Hexproof. Really, that's how I feel.

[cloudscraper]

how are the opinions on 10 vs 11 white sources? I've been screwed multiple times today, wishing i had one more source, even a bad one.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Lazer: I don't this this is a dumb exercise at all...

No 4th CttR vs Black Devo?
Spark vs. Esper might be a MM to combat BB

Black Devo looks like I wouldn't mind a second Assemble if we can find room...

I am dumb and clearly didn't think this through before posting Of course CttR comes in Vs B, I've done this every game since, er. CttR was legal Apparently I'm unable to type this though

[JohnnyfnB]

how are the opinions on 10 vs 11 white sources? I've been screwed multiple times today, wishing i had one more source, even a bad one.

I have been thinking the same thing.

[dpaine88]

Dan Paine in the house, how ya been buddy?

Ayyyy What up James.

Been watching your videos and stuff. Great work and congrats on GP Melbourne.

Got a big event coming up this weekend and REALLY want to run this deck but sadly, I have no experience with it and it doesn't seem the type of deck that I can pick up during the week and play this weekend. Lotta hard decisions.

[LaZerBurn]

how are the opinions on 10 vs 11 white sources? I've been screwed multiple times today, wishing i had one more source, even a bad one.

I have been thinking the same thing.

Discussion on this took place some pages ago - the current mana base has 11 - 4SF, 4ToT and 3GG along with 9 mountain and 3 Vaults.

[tzir]

how are the opinions on 10 vs 11 white sources? I've been screwed multiple times today, wishing i had one more source, even a bad one.

I have been thinking the same thing.

Discussion on this took place some pages ago - the current mana base has 11 - 4SF, 4ToT and 3GG along with 9 mountain and 3 Vaults.

zem is running 2 guildgates and 10 mountains.

[dauntless268]

Yes, he went back to 10 for the first time after playing 11 for a while. Advantage is that FDS out of the board is a little more consistent. I can only assume he expected to face a lot of control decks at the GPT. Running 11 is playing it safe, certainly. Let's hear what he has to say.

[jdow30]

How would you guys build a Maindeck, knowing 75% of your meta is GRx Monsters, Mono-Blue, and GWx Aggro?

[cloudscraper]

Dan Paine in the house, how ya been buddy?

Ayyyy What up James.

Been watching your videos and stuff. Great work and congrats on GP Melbourne.

Got a big event coming up this weekend and REALLY want to run this deck but sadly, I have no experience with it and it doesn't seem the type of deck that I can pick up during the week and play this weekend. Lotta hard decisions.

the deck is very good but NOT FORGIVING. Sometimes a single suboptimal scry accounts for a lost game

[zemanjaski]

Against control YP is pretty much shut down vs Jace on turn 4. They play that, you have a 1/1 and 0/1's. You need to devote resources to deal with Jace. When I hit them with a 5 or 6 point Trouble, that pressure is immense. T2 AZ, T3 Trouble and your opponent is at 11 or 10 already with pressure on board. You now force them to stabilize or die. I can see YP being good against all aggro, great against Mono U and good against Mono Black if you can keep him alive to create tokens. Bile Blight takes care of them.

Blind Obedience now makes VFB garbage.

This post upset me so much.

[LP, of the Fires]

How would you guys build a Maindeck, knowing 75% of your meta is GRx Monsters, Mono-Blue, and GWx Aggro?

Maindeck satyr firedancer is option one.

Option two is running the creature heavy build from last open to minimalize dead cards (skullcrack et all) and play cool things like reckoner and mizzium mirtars main.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah if you're in a meta like that the SCG Atlanta list is a better starting point; it's got a positive gr matchup.

[zemanjaski]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=207787#p207787:2ar0etk9]dpaine88 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:25 am[/url:2ar0etk9]":2ar0etk9][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=205846#p205846:2ar0etk9]zemanjaski » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:44 pm[/url:2ar0etk9]":2ar0etk9]Dan Paine in the house, how ya been buddy?[/quote:2ar0etk9]

Ayyyy What up James.

Been watching your videos and stuff. Great work and congrats on GP Melbourne.

Got a big event coming up this weekend and REALLY want to run this deck but sadly, I have no experience with it and it doesn't seem the type of deck that I can pick up during the week and play this weekend. Lotta hard decisions.[/quote:2ar0etk9]

I feel like I make 1-2 errors [i:2ar0etk9]every[/i:2ar0etk9] game. It's a lot like playing UW Delvrr; can't just pick it up I'm afraid.

[JohnnyfnB]

Against control YP is pretty much shut down vs Jace on turn 4. They play that, you have a 1/1 and 0/1's. You need to devote resources to deal with Jace. When I hit them with a 5 or 6 point Trouble, that pressure is immense. T2 AZ, T3 Trouble and your opponent is at 11 or 10 already with pressure on board. You now force them to stabilize or die. I can see YP being good against all aggro, great against Mono U and good against Mono Black if you can keep him alive to create tokens. Bile Blight takes care of them.

Blind Obedience now makes VFB garbage.

This post upset me so much.[/
quote]

You don't think that Blind Obedience completely devalues VFB? Now that your version and the ones used in SCG Seattle and Atlanta attracted attention, decks will be packing BO. Actually they are already!

[zemanjaski]

Yes, he went back to 10 for the first time after playing 11 for a while. Advantage is that FDS out of the board is a little more consistent. I can only assume he expected to face a lot of control decks at the GPT. Running 11 is playing it safe, certainly. Let's hear what he has to say.

This. Like I said when doing me meta analysis post (it was the long one) my local meta is mostly Esper Control.

[zemanjaski]

No Johnny, what upsets me is that you think Jace is good against Young Pyromancer.

[zemanjaski]

Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere, Bile Blight are all terrible against it too.

[JohnnyfnB]

Excuse my ignorance Zem, I haven't played YP vs Jace. What am I missing? All of your tokens have 0 power. I've watched all of your videos and haven't seen you test with YP yet.

[BlakLanner]

You are missing the fact that all your opponent can afford to do with Jace is +1 it if you are making tokens. The moment he -2s, it, or possibly your opponent, will die next turn.

[Aodh]

Yeah, they're all more-than-1-for-1-looking 1-for-1's at sorcery speed.

[JohnnyfnB]

@Blaklanner I understand that. So the tactic is that he is using resources to deal with YP, instead of forwarding his own plan.

[BlakLanner]

Exactly. It stops him from doing what he really wants to do with Jace, which is dig deeper into his deck.

[zemanjaski]

Your 2-mana card invalidates his 4-mana card AND stops him from drawing cards AND makes extra Jace's blanks.

And removal once you've got value from YP is horrible; I had two 1/1s deal 8 damage to an opponent at the GPT.

[zemanjaski]

So, the thing that MUST be understood is that pyro tokens didn't cost you a card. They are free. If your opponent blanks them somehow, or kills them with Bile Blight or whatever, that is card disadvantage for them. Those spells were going to be cast anyway.

[JohnnyfnB]

So, the thing that MUST be understood is that pyro tokens didn't cost you a card. They are free. If your opponent blanks them somehow, or kills them with Bile Blight or whatever, that is card disadvantage for them. Those spells were going to be cast anyway.

I understand that and knew that already. I guess I just needed to be slapped upside the head with it. Thank you for the adjustment.

[zemanjaski]

Its fine, its something I am asked all the time and will be addressing in my comprehensive article on the archetype (probably out Friday - its VERY long).

[JohnnyfnB]

(probably out Friday - its VERY long).

Thats what she said.

[zemanjaski]

Maybe Cackler > Firedrinker right now?

Firedrinker can potentially hit harder, but you're unlikely to get more than 1 or 2 activations out of him (though every activation is free value); usually you're better of spending your mana other ways (often you get 1 activation on turn 2 and then no more).

Compare to Cackler who dodges Doom Blade and Ultimate Price after sideboarding against both MBC and Esper; that's very relevant right?

Discuss.

[JohnnyfnB]

I think RC is fine, but what about Legion Loyalist? It has haste and if YP has tokens tons of extra abilities and value late game when Elspeth is out. I have wanted to try Everflame Eidolon. I know it costs 1R, but it only costs R to pump. Plus it has mid and late game value with bestow to push some extra damage through.

[DerWille]

Didn't you pick Firedrinker Satyr so he could fight through x/3's like Sylvan Caryatid that usually end up stone walling Cackler/Ash Zealot on the ground? Those cards seem to be more problematic than ultimate price/doom blade which are already weak against burn because there's so few targets to hit in the deck to begin with. My experience with the deck has been that it really needs to get the first 6-10 points of damage with as few cards as possible so it can then finish the job with fire. An x/3 can prevent that early damage from happening more than a kill spell because it can stop multiple cards at once instead of just one.

[zemanjaski]

I don't bring in Firedrinker against GR, something about Mizzium Mortars, Polukranos and Domri Rade (fight) turn me off him for some reason.

Legion Loyalist is garbage. SO BAD.

Everflame Eidolon is a real magic card and will see play; if not in this format then after rotation; it is one of the best cards in block constructed.