[Primer] Boros Burn

[zemanjaski]

OK ran through 2x 8-man, winning one and splitting the finals of the other.

RE: Fated Conflagration. Every time I have had Fated Conflagration in hand it has been fine. Good, acceptable, not exciting but fine. That's good enough for me.

RE: Mirrors. You're playing a control mirror and you might not realize it, hitting 4 land to resolve Helix first is a big deal (since it stops your opponent from casting anything as they must rep Sullcack).

[zemanjaski]

Actually Skullcrack is fine vs. Mono U because they have a relevant x/3 (Nightveil) to snipe with Firedancer, whereas GR Monsters don't.

[Pendulum]

What genius - what visionary - could have possibly seen the potential value of Fated Conflag when it was first announced whilst everyone else was so sure it was not even remotely playable? If only such a hero, such a Cadillac of men, existed among us to offer his wisdom and guidance.

$.50?

[magicdownunder]

Actually Skullcrack is fine vs. Mono U because they have a relevant x/3 (Nightveil) to snipe with Firedancer, whereas GR Monsters don't.

I know, my last comment was based on lazer videos where he removed Shock from his list rather then Skullcrack to fit in his extra SB cards.

Shock is > Skullcrack in the Ux Devotion MU no?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah definitely. Not that close either.

[Mr. Metronome]

I'm honestly not liking this deck as much as I used to. I might start playing some variation of a PyroWhite/PyroBlack deck, my local meta has a lot of other small creature decks and not a lot of the decks that burn preys on.

Also, as great as a high-skill deck is, I want something with a few more free wins atm because I don't have a whole lot of time I can afford to devote to playtesting/getting better with a deck.

Definitely keeping it together on MTGO though, and I'll keep following deck progression to see if it gets somewhere I feel comfortable jumping back on it. For now, it's on my backburner.

[magicdownunder]

I'm confused, your meta has lots of small creature decks yet burn can't prey on them? From my understanding burn thrives on small creatures deck... (your skill as a burn player is mainly tested against control and midrange since you can't just play everything without thinking).

That said I have nothing against RB or RW aggro since I also like running creatures with my burns and/or removals.

[zemanjaski]

As with most things I build, it's built for mtgo. Ymmv.

[LaZerBurn]

Just don't cut the shock for Skullcrack

Why I had to choose when I was recording as the only time to make such a horrific SB choice I'll never know!

[zemanjaski]

Recording adds a lot if pressure. I definitely make errors while recording I wouldn't otherwise.

[Mr. Metronome]

I've had a lot of trouble with beating RDW, which makes up a decent portion of my meta.

[zemanjaski]

How do the games play out? How are you sideboarding? What role are you taking and how are you evaluating priorities and threats?

I ask because I crush red aggro.

[zemanjaski]

RedDeckWinning in the house!

[Kaitscralt]

go to sleep

[Kaitscralt]

Nevermind it's still early

[zemanjaski]

What time is it for you Madding? We can skype if you like.

[zemanjaski]

Funny how winning or splitting another 5x 8-mans consecutively boosts the confidence.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Possible new sideboard I will be testing prior to GP Phoenix based on discussion and more than likely facing the mirror:
[deck]2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to The Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Mutavault
3 Viashino Firstblade
1 Wild Ricochet[/deck]

Sparky's did work for me at the GPT and I definitely will miss them but I'd rather put a stop to GR/Jund Monsters' shenanigans instead of trying to race them. With an extra land to bring in post board hitting 4 lands ASAP should be smoother.

[zemanjaski]

Make that seven.

Killed so many control players. Must have been Madding's influence.

[LaZerBurn]

Are you running Fated on MTGO Zem?

[Purp]

How is firedancer doing for you?

[LaZerBurn]

Firedancer is doing amazing for me I the lil guy

[zemanjaski]

Running Fated, quite happy with it. The power level is relatively low but the flexibility is awesome.

I've got four Firedancer in the board. Went 2-0x 2 vs UW Devotion without ever drawing one

[rcwraspy]

I grabbed a Fated and a Wild Ricochet on MODO last night and fired it up. Unfortunately I was only able to play a few games and neither card was relevant, so I'm still waiting to see how I like it. Still like them both as 1-ofs in theory, though. This is the SB I'm running on MODO right now:

[deck]
1 Fated Conflagration
1 Wild Ricochet
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

[cloudscraper]

what is your current configuration Zem, and how are you liking it?

I feel like Firedancers are basically an autowin vs a huge amount of decks which are a small percentage of the meta. But, summing them up, it's an amount between 10 and 25% of each metagame.

I think they are worth their slots.

Are you running something like this, Zem?

[deck=Sideboard?!]4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Viashino Firstblade
1 Mutavault
3 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

[amcfvieira]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... rw-burn-3/

It's been difficult to me play this week, and made a little portion of games. After see this videos, I see that someone more had the same problems I had in MTGO recently. Many times I can reach the 4 land at time or at all. Last night I had twice that I scry 6 cards to the bottom and didn't find the 4th land, and consequentially lose the game.

Other times I had 3 or 4 W.Helix in my hand and I can't play 2x spell in a turn. This kills my mind! I hate been screwed. Now I'm testing with the 24 lands (4th Mutavault of Z sideboard) over the 4th W.Helix in my 60 now Split 3/3/3/3 Chained/shock/searing/helix).

I big portion of the MTGO meta is control and Red Burn,
that were decks I always want to make my land drops, I feel that 24 lands will be better for me.
I think 3 Helix will be a good number, because the deck I want it more it's only the mirror. Against control it's always a card that in multiples will be catch for syncopate and possible let my opponent have mana for dissolve or negate. I will try that way and then report.

Guys, what do you think about that?

I will reduce my number of cards against Monsters too. Cutting one Trooper and one Mizzium. I will test the Fated too. Trooper it's a card that I'm happy with, but feel that I cast it less times that others. Many times I have it in my hand and not the "open window" to make it be huge and play some other spell and it will become in hand some turn. Sometimes I didn't cast it at all. I usually will be happy with only one.

Today's in mirror I was crash for a guy playing Toil/Trouble main deck. He win the role and at turn 3 trouble me and turn 4 trouble me again, I didn't hit the 4
land for Helix and the game was a bye for him. In game 2, after 2 tap lands in the beginning I had a hand full of cards, he hits me again turn 3 with it, ahhh! So it's another bye...
I was very impress with the card in the mirror, Will be a really bad topdeck, but in the beginning will make a huge impact. Against control it's a card that will be great after a detention turn 3 or a verdict turn 4. At least at the play will be great.

What about adding some to the board again?

[Valdarith]

I think a 24th land is fine. A fourth Mutavault would be nice. Would have to resist urge to increase the curve.

[rcwraspy]

A 24th land would probably be fine, but whenever I wonder if I should up the land count I first crunch the numbers in Ham's formula but then also ask myself if the deck would rather be flooded or starved. My opinion for this deck is that I really want to hit the 4th land on T4 but I don't care much about lands after that. Since lands make up a 3rd of the deck, having a hand full of gas will reward you for hitting land much more powerfully in this deck than a hand full of land rewards you for hitting gas.

I'm not sure the difference of 1 land, from 23 to 24, warrants that kind of thinking but I'll throw it out there anyway.

[Staind Diablo]

amcfvieira- I have had similar problems with the mana base, especially last night. I was also considering dropping to 3 helix, as I lost several games with 3 land and 3 helix in hand after many scrys just for a land drop. I also had some trouble hitting a single white mana source several games, so I have gone back to 3 Boros gg, even though I don't particularly love the card. I guess could also play a single plains. Anyway, I plan on trying 2 shock, 3 searing, 3 chained, 3 helix, and trying 3 YP to go with the 4 zealots and 4 phoenix. Could be terrible, but we will see. I think a few more creatures might be good, and seems like YP could be a nice addition against many decks. Plus, seems like Yp and zealot together would be a pretty tough combo to defend. Shouldn't be too terrible against anything I don't think, and should be quite good in some matchups. We will see, at work right now, but will try to test tonight
if I have the opportunity.

[lorddax]

Im in the camp of against the 24th land. In our deck right now we have no efficient mana sinks for extra lands. Seeing land number 5 in our deck is much worse than being stuck on 3, the 5th land can not do anything by itself as we have only 2 cards in the deck(Shock&CtR) that would benefit from a floating mana, and they do not match in color. Land number 5 needs land number 6 to reach maximum value as this is the point where our castable cards goes up allowing us to cast 3 spells a turn or helix + spell.

5 lands also cannot be solved by treating it as a muta vault source as 5 lands still leaves us with only 3 for casting, meaning the 6th land is need to return to the ability to cast 2 spells a turn or threaten helix.

The fifth land only benefits one scenario of recurring and casting phoenix, which our deck will already do quite often.

I typically mulligan 4 land hands as for this deck, if any of the next 3
cards are lands it is really going to hurt.

I feel the deck would much rather be starved then flooded as with significant changes to our structure each land drawn beyond the 4 begins to pull on the deck's power. If we were to move to 24 lands I think we would need to find a decent repeatable sink for the extra land, we would need a Kitten mittens type of effect which atm is attached to Big Daddy Purp which does nothing for our deck. Hammer of Purphoros is our only decent sink for this deck to make use of extra lands atm, and I would argue that shaving off the 4 spot to be a better answer.

[BrainsickHater]

Been keeping tabs on the discussion, and after reading thoughts on Fated Conflagration, here's my list and SB I think I'll be running at my LGS. Keep in mind that this list is built for an intensely creature-heavy meta; there are two people who play control and 30-40 players each week. Last week I played against Red aggro, UW devotion, U devotion, then WW.

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
3 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Shock

4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
3 Boros Guildgate

Sideboard
4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Fated Conflagration
[/deck]

I'm really happy with this list because the sideboard plans feel good; in the past I always felt like there were too many cards I wanted and I
diluted my deck too much. I've had hands where I have Satyr Firedancer, 2 lands, and 4 non-burn SB cards, which feels really bad.

About the sideboard:
This sideboard is skewed towards having exactly the right tools against any creature deck I'll face. The idea is that the matchups Reckoner is extremely good in and the matchups that Firedancer are extremely good in are different, and I can board more conservatively (and avoid diluting my deck) by having fewer high impact cards as opposed to jamming a bunch of things that I want in my deck and losing to inconsistency. I think Fated Conflagration is great in this board, as it answers things that a Boros Charm + Firedancer can't and can also send five to the face with Reckoner.

I'm not playing Spark Trooper because I feel like he only fits into one of the deck's plans to win the game, which is racing them. While a 12 point life swing feels great, Spark Trooper often works only because my opponents are caught off guard by
the card. Furthermore, it's one of the most difficult to cast cards in the deck, and between finding a time when you cast the card and finding a time when the card is excellent to cast, I think I would rather just have a different card in my sideboard. Additionally, you often want Spark Trooper in matches where you want Firedancer, but when you board in trooper, you often have to board out burn. This has created issues for me in the past, and when I play Firedancer, I want to have as much burn as possible.

Sideboarding:
vs G/Rx Monsters: +3 Boros Reckoner, +2 Fated Conflagration, +2 Blind Obedience, +1 Chained to the Rocks / -4 Ash Zealot, -4 Skullcrack
This plan feels great to me. Blind Obedience has already proven to be an absolute house against monsters, and the best my opponent can do against Reckoner is to Mortars it, and I can generally take out one of my opponent's creatures in that situation, or send 4 to the face which is still fine.
If my opponent doesn't have removal, then he can't swing unless he can give his creature trample w/Ghor Clan Rampager, and if he does, then I can respond with Fated Conflagration. With this board, I feel like the fast clock of the deck is preserved while also giving me the ability to slow down my opponent considerably. Against a jund monsters deck, I'll probably bring in 4 Firedancer instead of the Reckoners and board out one Magma Jet or Shock depending if I'm on the play or draw.

vs Ux Devotion: +4 Firedancer, +1 Chained / -4 Ash Zealot, -1 Skullcrack
Again, I love this plan. In the past it felt like I was always boarding out too much burn, and with this plan I only lose one burn spell, which is a spell I really only want if I also have a Firedancer. I don't want Reckoner here, as 9 times out of 10 it just gets Domesticated, which adds do their devotion and is absolutely awful to see on the other side of the table for this deck. Against Ux Devotion decks, a race is
almost always in our favor, as they don't really apply pressure until they see a Thassa or a Master, and we can always delay those cards by at least a turn with Chained to the Rocks, which is a huge tempo swing in our favor. Firedancer fits much very well into the race plan, as he allows you to constantly throw burn at your opponent's face. Oftentimes, your opponent will have to spend a whole turn Domesticating the Firedancer, which is really not a huge deal for us.

vs BW Midrange: +2 Blind Obedience, +2 Fated Conflagration, +3 Viashino Firstblade +1 Chained/ -3 Shock, -4 Magma Jet, -1 Skullcrack (maybe this crack is a Boros Charm, but crack seems worse against BW than MB)
I'm not 100% sold on this plan as siding out almost all of my 2-point burn feels very strange. I will rarely be able to answer a blood baron with Searing Blood plus burn, but I do have Fated Conflagration, and Blood Baron often doesn't need an answer, so perhaps this is fine. When boarding in more
creatures, Blind Obedience is very good, and it's also great as a way to neuter Obzedat if I don't have any conflagrations. Maybe Conflagration is too narrow for this matchup (Blind Obedience might very well be enough to contain Big Daddy), but the card also answers Elspeth, which against doesn't necessarily need an answer, but having an answer certainly doesn't seem bad. Against monoblack I board out 3 shocks and a Jet for the Viashinos and a Chained.

vs UWx Control: +3 Viashino Firstblade, +4 Satyr Firedancer, +2 Fated / -3 Searing Blood, -3 Chained, -3 Shock
I was originally running 3 firedancer in the board but after seeing Z's sideboard plan against control with his 4-dancer board, I was sold on 4. Dancer is a house in the right matchups and the fact that it's better than most of your cards against control is fantastic. There's not much explanation here, just side out dead cards for not-dead to decent cards.

vs small aggro: +4
Firedancer, +3 Reckoner, +1 Chained / -4 Skullcrack, -4 Phoenix
Taking out phoenix is almost certainly wrong, but what else do I take out here? Firedancer and Reckoner are absolute houses against small red and white decks, and Reckoner can apply pressure with the absence of Phoenix, so it seems justifiable to me. When I board for this matchup, I want to board in a way that can win through their nut draw, so adding cheap removal, turning to-the-face burn into removal, and putting the Great Wall of RtR in the way all seem like good ideas. If I was against an Orzhov Aggro deck, I would probably leave Phoenix in and leave the Reckoners in the board, and side out a Boros Charm instead of 1 Phoenix.

- Vomit post complete

[lorddax]

Thanks for the vomit post. Helped me think a bit more about the other decks in the meta. I've just started playing this deck a couple weeks ago and still shaking out what are the problem cards in the opposing decks that I need to be able to deal with. Knowing how the other decks are going to try and win makes crafting sideboards a bit easier. Being able to make a more general SB plan lets us run all these different configs and I think seperates us from players who can only do strict SB guidelines.

Im gonna toss this up, you guys have played a lot more than I have recently so please fix this and add thoughts. Im very shaky on what they would board against us.

GR Monster - Turn 6 win - Land a fatty and ride it to victory over two to three huge swings. Courser adds life back which can be a major pain. Taking their threat out of play is best, slowing them and racing them also works. Courser can really throw off math gaining
3-6 life over the course of a game, very dangerous in multiples. Beware the bow from the board.
Jund - Turn 6 win - Much like GR but with access to strong removal. Their manabase is their weakest link so try to exploit turns 1 - 4 as much as possible.

Ux Devo - Turn 6-8 win - Use Thassa to scry until MoW is available then smash with critical mass of tokens. Dealing with MoW or his token horde neuters the deck. Shutting off Thassa by killing NVS and FBW, watch for counters. They will probably bring in a few counters from the board, so sequence for value.

BW Mid - (Haven't faced)

UWx Control- Turn 8-10 win - Control the board and land Aetherling or a PW ultimate. They durdle a lot and a PW tap out can be punished, most PW can be ignored. Be able to deal 25-30 damage a game as Elixir and Rev will come in, fast repeatable damage works well. CP can cause them to waste counters.

Small Aggro - Turn 4-5 win - Gain critical mass and beat face. Walling their threats or outright dealing with them
destroys their VCA as they don't have a strong way to replenish hands. 2-1's work great here.

American Control - Turn 6-8 - This deck is weird as its our deck but with acccess to sphinx and blue trickery. Brimaz can get out of hand but dealing with him puts them on the back foot. Countermagic in from the board.

Mirror - Turn 5-6 - They are going to attempt to win the same way we are so forcing them to deal with creatures works well, as well as getting ahead on life. Sequencing is important here and disrupting theirs can wreck them.

MBC - (Only faced 1)
BUG - (Only faced 1)
Simic - (Only faced 1)
Naya Aggro - (Only faced 1)

[zenbitz]

How is firedancer good vs. UWx control? I feel like I missed a memo. Zem has FireDRINKER for control, doesn't he?

[Khaospawn]

Damn, I take 4 days off for vacation to drink beer and lead a band and this thread jumps almost ten pages. Meanwhile, the FoS clan thread moved only 4 pages.

After skimming through the last couple of pages, I like seeing where you guys are taking this thing. As for Fated Conflagration, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, but I do love me some Mizzium Mortars. I've won games I had no business winning against Monsters when I drew it and overloaded it.

[BrainsickHater]

How is firedancer good vs. UWx control? I feel like I missed a memo. Zem has FireDRINKER for control, doesn't he?

WELL, I am retarded. It didn't make much sense to me but it was Zem so I didn't question it. I should instead question my abitlity to read.

[BrainsickHater]

But really, wizards should have thought up a name that didn't share over half the same characters. Every time I read this thread I mix them up at some point.

[Khaospawn]

Agreed, even I say the wrong name for the Satyrs when I'm talking really fast.

[Staind Diablo]

I was testing against my friend's BUG control last night and would sb in the Firedrinkers. I was able to play him turn one just about every game, and he asked me if I was running more than 4. I explained to him that even MTGO is confused about SFD and FDS, so you can play up to 8.

[BrainsickHater]

How is firedancer good vs. UWx control? I feel like I missed a memo. Zem has FireDRINKER for control, doesn't he?

I still stand by 4 firedancers in the sideboard though, as it allows me to board out less burn and I always want to see one in the matches he's good in. Oftentimes I want another because they remove the first one.

[Staind Diablo]

I agree, I love the firedancers. He is pretty much exactly what I want out of a sb card, so good when it is good.