Help me douche it up!

[Dutch253]

My playgroup normally plays with a really restrictive list of things we do and don't do. No counters, infinite combos etc. Well we are going to build decks for when we want to be especially douchey! I do know if you're playing cutthroat you need to have blue for counters/extra turns. I was thinking Riku but he's so mana intensive. Gotta cast him, cast the spell you want to copy, pay for the copy. Anyone have a better idea?

[DarthStabber]

teferi, mage of zhalfir is a terrific troll/jerk/griefer commander. As long as you can protect him on your opponents's turns you can do what ever when ever and they play everything as sorceries. And the decks built around him tend to be very good at stopping anything you don't like from happening. Jin Gitaxis does similarly bad things, and usually has a similar deck, and they both work in the other's 99.

[DocLawless]

I had an idea for a deck one time called "Memnarch is a Fucking Asshole and So Am I". Mycosynth Lattice + 'Narch's second ability = Yoink!

[redthirst]

IME, Arcum Dagsson's pretty good at griefing a whole table.

[Dutch253]

IME, Arcum Dagsson's pretty good at griefing a whole table.

I don't want to just be a mono blue griefer. I'm totally open to running 3 colors. I just want to do all the broken shit we usually frown upon: infinite combos, counters, cards like Jin Gitaxias, tooth and nail, Vorinclex, land destruction etc etc etc

[Stardust]

You should probably just choose one or two of those rather than try to do them all. Infinite combos mixed with land destruction seems bad.

Sharuum combo is extremely powerful, for the record.

[DocLawless]

Agreed. Do one thing well instead of several things half way.

[Dutch253]

You should probably just choose one or two of those rather than try to do them all. Infinite combos mixed with land destruction seems bad.

Sharuum combo is extremely powerful, for the record.

Didn't quite mean everything at once. Just wanted to give some examples of the things I want to do.

[DocLawless]

On an imaginary scale of douchiness, I'd put infinite combos at the top. All those other things are just part of the game. Going infinite is part of it too, but if we're not in a competition for prizes they're cheap shots.

Here's my favorite combo: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Darkest Hour and Blasting Station are in play. Sac a black creature to Blasting Station for one damage to an opponent. A black creature died, so Teysa generates a white spirit token which untaps Blasting Station. Darkest Hour makes the white spirit black. Sac it to Blasting Station for a damage. Because it was black Teysa generates another white spirit token, which is black because of Darkest Hour, which untaps Blasting Station. Sac the token to Blasting Station for a damage. Repeat to infinity. Because Teysa + Darkest Hour turns any sac outlet into an infinite
combo.

Any. Sac. Outlet.

[Stardust]

Sharuum has the same combo with Sculpting Steel, but you have: 1) More redundancy (Phyrexian Metamorph), 2) A general that pulls the combo pieces back out of the graveyard for you, and 3) Access to blue. The deck as a whole is getting very close to strictly better than Teysa. Plus you don't need your sac outlet to necessarily even do anything if you've got a Disciple of the Vault or similar on the field. The only downside is that it's succeptible to graveyard hate, something Teysa dodges a little bit (she still gets hit by Leyline and RIP).

[DocLawless]

Does that combo still work under the new Legendary rule?

[Stardust]

Oh dear, I screwed that up. No sac outlet for this one. All it does is give you infinite enters/dies triggers. However! The new rules actually help a lot since any Clone can let you combo off.

Sharuum in play, play Clone.
Sharuum (original) dies to legendary rule.
Return Sharuum to play with Clone's ability.
Repeat.

Your primary wincons then are Disciple of the Vault, Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble (with Vela the Night Clad and Dire Undercurrents as backup). So much redundancy.

[DocLawless]

Wait... what does Clone do that returns Sharuum to play more than once? Doesn't it just copy Sharuum once, send the original to the 'yard, then return it to play so it can go right back to the 'yard? Or can I stack the triggers so Sharuum goes to the graveyard before her ability resolves, enabling me to target Sharuum with her own ETB effect? Forgive me, I need combos explained to me in small words sometimes.

[Jack]

Legend rule checks with other state-based actions (or however you're supposed to say it. I'm not a judge, but I know most rules), so it happens the instant two Sharuums exist on the battlefield at the same time, and has you kill one of them immediately, without using the stack. Then, Clone's ETB trigger goes into the stack. Maybe that's not exactly how it works, but one of them will be dead before you have to choose for the ETB.

[Stardust]

Yeah, freedom's got it. Before you even place triggers on the stack, one of the Sharuums dies. So yes, she can target herself with her own ability.

[DocLawless]

Lesson: Knowing how to abuse the stack is the best skill you can learn.

[Azrael]

Probably one of the simplest generals to start building cutthroat with is Thada Adel, ramp style.

Cram in a healthy contingent of multi-mana mana rocks aside from Thada, fast mana a la Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, Everflowing Chalice, Phyrexian Metamorph, Worn Powerstone, Copy Artifact, Scuplting Steel, Extraplanar Lens, Tezzeret the Seeker, maybe Gauntlet of Power. That gives you a level of mana ramp in conjunction with Thada that ought to be ridiculously unfair.

While ramping, sit back on around 10-12 counterspells, adjusted according to your meta, sprinkle in some blue removal (Pongify, Rapid Hybridization, Curse of the Swine, etc.) and some good creature theft to the tune of about 8 slots total, pump in Knowledge Exploitation/Time Stretch/Time Warp/Temporal Manipulation/Walk The Aeons/Diluvian Primordial/Notorious Throng(if you roll that way), finish with things like
Lightning Greave'd Eldrazi (don't forget Pathrazer of Ulamog), Memnarch, Sphinx Ambassador, possibly Rites of Replication, Blightsteel Colossus, Bribery. The rest of your deck is just about every card draw spell you can find that generates three or more cards for you: Stroke of Genius, Jace's Ingenuity, Opportunity, Mind Spring, Braingeyser, Recurring Insight, Concentrate, Deep Analysis, Tidings, Jin-Gitaxias, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Blue Sun's Zenith, Jace the Mind Sculptor, etc. Mystical Tutor doesn't hurt.

Add Back to Basics, and you're pretty well set.

You're monoblue, so you've got access to counters and removal, but you can also ramp much faster than what most other decks are capable of doing. If you're in a position to be aggressive fast, you can potentially start casting hasty Eldrazi turns 4-5 with the right start, but you're also well-positioned for the long game, since you don't have to over-extend or burn cards from hand if you don't want to, but can quietly ride on the back of
Thada, build up massive mana and/or card advantage, and wait for your moment to strike. Since you can grab other people's Lightning Greaves basically at will, it's pretty easy to arrange for a hasty threat to come down and basically one-shot people at your discretion, without giving them any opportunity to react.

[Jack]

Damn, that sounds awesome. Seems pretty cheap as well.

[Azrael]

Damn, that sounds awesome. Seems pretty cheap as well.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to customize, lots of interchangeable pieces that can be swapped in or out according to budget and availability. And in multi, it's one of the generals that has the highest win rate in our playgroup. It's fast, very hard to slow down or hate out, always has cards in hand, and you can't always tell when it's about to kill you.

Killing Thada 3rd turn slows it down significantly, but it's still going to get there in the end with the rest of its ramp and card advantage package. And a lot of people may not want or be able to kill the Thada quickly enough before the damage is done, especially if your countershield comes back up. If you can steal one or two Sol Rings
before she gets picked off, she's done her job.

Even a relatively untuned build can be pretty dangerous - any deck with that much mana, that much card advantage, and blue access, can make itself a real headache.

[Dutch253]

Probably one of the simplest generals to start building cutthroat with is Thada Adel, ramp style.

Cram in a healthy contingent of multi-mana mana rocks aside from Thada, fast mana a la Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, Everflowing Chalice, Phyrexian Metamorph, Worn Powerstone, Copy Artifact, Scuplting Steel, Extraplanar Lens, Tezzeret the Seeker, maybe Gauntlet of Power. That gives you a level of mana ramp in conjunction with Thada that ought to be ridiculously unfair.

While ramping, sit back on around 10-12 counterspells, adjusted according to your meta, sprinkle in some blue removal (Pongify, Rapid Hybridization, Curse of the Swine, etc.) and some good creature theft to the tune of about 8 slots total, pump in
Knowledge Exploitation/Time Stretch/Time Warp/Temporal Manipulation/Walk The Aeons/Diluvian Primordial/Notorious Throng(if you roll that way), finish with things like Lightning Greave'd Eldrazi (don't forget Pathrazer of Ulamog), Memnarch, Sphinx Ambassador, possibly Rites of Replication, Blightsteel Colossus, Bribery. The rest of your deck is just about every card draw spell you can find that generates three or more cards for you: Stroke of Genius, Jace's Ingenuity, Opportunity, Mind Spring, Braingeyser, Recurring Insight, Concentrate, Deep Analysis, Tidings, Jin-Gitaxias, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Blue Sun's Zenith, Jace the Mind Sculptor, etc. Mystical Tutor doesn't hurt.

Add Back to Basics, and you're pretty well set.

You're monoblue, so you've got access to counters and removal, but you can also ramp much faster than what most other decks are capable of doing. If you're in a position to be aggressive fast, you can potentially start casting hasty Eldrazi turns 4-5 with the right start, but
you're also well-positioned for the long game, since you don't have to over-extend or burn cards from hand if you don't want to, but can quietly ride on the back of Thada, build up massive mana and/or card advantage, and wait for your moment to strike. Since you can grab other people's Lightning Greaves basically at will, it's pretty easy to arrange for a hasty threat to come down and basically one-shot people at your discretion, without giving them any opportunity to react.

One heck of a write up man. Thanks a lot! Mono blue control just wasn't the direction I'm looking to go.

[Dechs Kaison]

Check out my Tajic list. That's probably as douche as it gets for your group.

It leverages all the strengths of Red/White. Basically a decently aggressive list with indestructible creatures and enough BLOW IT THE FUCK UP to keep your opponents off their feet.

[Dutch253]

Check out my Tajic list. That's probably as douche as it gets for your group.

It leverages all the strengths of Red/White. Basically a decently aggressive list with indestructible creatures and enough BLOW IT THE FUCK UP to keep your opponents off their feet.

I really like that list. I'm just wary of decks that really rely on their commanders to close out games. Also what do you when Tajic is tucked? I play a Tajic soldier tribal ish monstrosity online and it's pretty fun. I just feel if you're going full douche in commander blue and green are essential. Not gonna lie, playing red to destroy lands would be delightful!

[Dechs Kaison]

Check out my Tajic list. That's probably as douche as it gets for your group.

It leverages all the strengths of Red/White. Basically a decently aggressive list with indestructible creatures and enough BLOW IT THE FUCK UP to keep your opponents off their feet.

I really like that list. I'm just wary of decks that really rely on their commanders to close out games. Also what do you when Tajic is tucked? I play a Tajic soldier tribal ish monstrosity online and it's pretty fun. I just feel if you're going full douche in commander blue and green are essential.
Not gonna lie, playing red to destroy lands would be delightful!

I just don't let him get tucked. I don't play him when I can't protect or sacrifice him. I keep forgetting to put High Market in that list.

Also, the deck doesn't really need Tajic to win. One or two indestructible creatures and an Obliterate is almost always enough. Or one with a Worldslayer.

[DarthStabber]

Honestly being a "dick" is such a relative term. When I play at a shop with other semi-spikey players no one has a problem with my nekusar deck, especially considering the low number of wheel effects I run (I'm focused on playing a control game as opposed to combo), where as my friends who play more casually think the deck is obnoxious, mostly because seeing me wipe the board repeatedly (turn 4 damnation, turn 5 toxic deluge, turn 7 blasphemous act, turn 9 decree of pain, turn 13 starstorm, and they get all testy, especially when a sword equipped nekusar survives the blasphemous act, though he eats a go for the throat before my next upkeep).

[DocLawless]

That sounds like a game of Magic to me.

[DarthStabber]

That sounds like a game of Magic to me.

I know right.

[Gatts]

You could try making an Edric, Spymaster of Trest deck and cram it full of Flying Men & Friends. It plays with stuff they would see as "casual" while being extremely brutal and aggro.

[Stardust]

And extremely fragile. I've got an Edric deck built. It's not as strong as I was led to believe.

[Gatts]

The problem is you need counter protection, and he can't use those due to his playgroup. The loss of extra turn spells hurts also.
*EDIT* Protection not production

[Azrael]

Egads! We have a front page that's relevant to this topic?!?

http://diestoremoval.com/frontpage/node/9