[Primer] Boros Burn

[Staind Diablo]

I also agree. SFD is SO good in the matchups it is good, I don't think I will cut it from the sb. I am not sure how I feel about it against MB or Bw, but seems like *might* be decent. I am also not sure whether I like the all creature or no creature plan for MB, but I will say that I have had a bit of trouble with the matchup overall. That may just be me playing it poorly, or drawing badly. But I seem to run into turn 4 demon, turn 5 demon, and that is tough to deal with, esp if they thoughtseize a chained. Any tips on this matchup?

[Elricity]

My general opinion on SFD is it's a weak choice on MODO due to black meta but it is quite a bit stronger in paper.

I got dizzy from all the back and forth but what ended up being the consensus on YP? I'd basically been waiting for drown to go away which I figure it has by now.

[Aodh]

MBD is fine unless the Demon -> Demon or 3 -> Demon -> Merchant and you can't kill in response or Skullcrack. These are fringe cases though, since they only see T4 demon 45-60% of the time, let alone multiples. The build above seems more like a Pyro build rather, and FDS seems ill-positioned at non-GP/PT events because of the burn infestation online and the overrepresentation of monsters at the local level.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Elricity - YP is out Dancer is in This is Zem's last big update and list - 1/2 Mortars -0/1 Sparky +2 Blind Obedience for MTGO.

Nice guys.

I like;
- the idea of Renounce, though it *might* be too narrow (yes, I run Firstblade also). I tested it a bunch last season and hated it. Maybe it's better now? Quite possibly. Thing is that Reaper, Domri and Xenagos aren't the cards that beat burn, at least in my experience. Daddy hydra and the mana acceleration are the main culprits IMO.
- the idea of spark trooper as a 1-of back in the 75. Purp's readoning is very convincing for me. Four is A LOT less than 5 and gaining six is a big game. I don't want two copies; that's
raising my curve too much; but access to five high impact life gain spells would be nice, many decks have real trouble beating two helix and this increase the likelihood of those draws.
- 3/3/3 split of chained/searing/shock felt good. Going from 2 to 3 answers to Polukranos and Desecration Demon for Game 1 is a big game.

Now that my head is more clear, I don't think the Blind Obedience will be a good choice for this weekend. The card is most powerful and Rx Aggro, Burn and GR. There will be GR but I don't think that much; it did so badly at GP Melbourne that I know many people sold off the deck; Esper and MBC are popular and both can be rough matchups (both decks can wreck GR if they make the effort too).

Mono U will also be popular, I know three pilots at least wil be attending. That's what pushes me away from Obedience; there are good plans available for GR and Mono U, but Obedience only targets one of those decks. Firedancer isn't as solid vs. GR but it just [i:
15y3ey2p]destroys[/i] Mono U. I also think I'm just a more competent pilot than I was a few weeks ago so I feel ill use the card better; it's also a nice hedge against random creature decks (GR Devotion, White Weenie, GW Littlekid; fringe stuff like that).

I expect the BIG deck of the weekend to be Esper. The 'best' players attending are all control players and the best control deck is Esper. With that on mind, I want an edge on that matchup Game 1. The best way to do that is to at least threaten curving out, which means that this manabase should be the best:

2 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

The 14th untapped red source makes Ash Zealot and Firedrinker Satyr more powerful against control. I'm not hurting for white mana game 1; post board, having removed Blind Obedience*, I don't need as much white, though mr. Viashino will be slightly weakened (I'm not half a source short, but on the flipside I have more untapped lands).

*i wil
still run Obedience on mtgo where it's a total beating.

With that in mind, the 75 ill test (in paper) will be:

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn for GPT Nagoya]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Obvious plans are obvious for UWx, GRx Monsters and Mono U. I need to test whether I want to be all creatures or none vs. Bx Devotion; I've had success with both but more testing is important.

Thanks to everyone for picking me up when I fall down. The community effort and team
work displayed is truly uplifting and I'm very glad that it's not just me benefitting for tuning; we're all finding our own successes and growth, together.

Today's episode of metagaming is brought to you by the letter V, for victory

[cloudscraper]

I think you lose faster if you don't have the Chained to the Rocks when they do find a Chandra's Phoenix. The only alternative is Annihilating Fire, but that card seems bad.

We are keeping a 4-of in our deck for a 4-of in our opponents' deck... and Searing Blood also has an extremely low amount of targets if everyone knows they should cut Ash Zealots and not attack with mutavaults into open mana.

This strategy doesn't convince me

Zem? :s

[Aodh]

cloudscraper - you could be right. The only problem I see is that we just lose if they have an active phoenix and we don't.

[Purp]

other than BO, is there another way to help hedge the mirror in our favor?

[JohnnyfnB]

other than BO, is there another way to help hedge the mirror in our favor?

Wear/Tear: For their BO and SFD
Annilhilating Fire: For their CP's
Anger of the Gods: Wipes their board, especially CP's
Everflame Eidolon: Can bestow for 2R to give a creature fire breathing and if the creature dies, you have another left over. Awesome on AZ or CP
Pay No Heed: For one mana can "negate" a burn to the dome
Peak Eruption: Self explanatory
Pacifism: They need wear/tear
Aurelia's Fury: Taps a creature/s and they can't play non creature spells for the turn
Boros Reckoner: He is awesome in the mirror

[zemanjaski]

Blind Obedience is by far the most powerful card and it invalidates most other choices (eg: siding in creatures lines up terribly against it). The key to the mirror is a combination of experience and understanding what the key thematic points are; like its more important to bottom spells with scry and hit 4 land in some states; in others you need to bottom anything that isn't Warleader's Helix; there are so many small judgement calls in the mirror that the stronger player has an enormous edge.

RE: Boros Reckoner. Its a house against other red decks, and ok to good against GR, depending on how their draw lines up (its pretty rubbish against Jund though). Its awful against Mono U(w), great and GW. In a meta as warped as SCG's, I can see sideboarding Reckoner; you'll face more GR than anything else! With what I am expecting to face, Satyr Firedancer just seems like a safer choice; it isn't as good as Reckoner in every
matchup, but it has much broader application so I would be getting more value from my sideboard.

[hamfactorial]

Blind Obedience is all you need to break the mirror. I haven't lost a sideboard game where I've resolved a BO, it's that much of a beating.

Other mirror keys are delaying the use of your Ash Zealot, forcing the opponent to use their Searing Blood on your Phoenix first, saving your Magma Jets for Mutavault or Zealot (burning the face for 2 is low value unless you have a full hand or need a certain card).

[hamfactorial]

Maybe this is old hat to you guys here, but I've played a mirror in almost every 8 man I've joined since Z's GP performance.

[Valdarith]

Mirror becoming more popular?

Wild Ricochet.

Nice [card]Warleader's Helix[/card] you got there. Mind if I have it? Oh, and I'll cast another one for free too.

If Burn is growing in popularity, it may be time to find a couple of slots for this card. It's just so high-impact in the match that it needs to be somewhere in the sideboard should the deck's popularity increase.

[zemanjaski]

I know that redzone loved his singleton. Its pretty amazing. I would love to hear if he had much success with it in other matchups (maybe MBC or BW - steal a devour flesh or some discard spell and wreck them?)

[hamfactorial]

It can't redirect a Sphinx's Revelation, but I'd laugh my ass off if I got to copy and draw a bunch of cards with it.

[Jonnymagic]

I've had a singleton in my s/b since I suggested it. I've loved it =D. Won a mirror match with it.

[zemanjaski]

Anyone want to lead a discussion on Mortars v Fated Conflag with me? I want someone to verify or contest my analysis.

- Mortars is two mana, TWO MANA. Against small aggro that's a huge upside.
- Four damage kills most things that we want killing (Nightveil Spectre, Blood Baron, Courser of Kruphix, random aggro creatures)
- Fated Conflagration hits like a fucking horse. It kills actually everything, including any problematic Planeswalker. Specifically, hitting Stormbreath Dragon at instant speed is relevant; as is being able to kill Polukranos without the 2-for-1.
- 1RRR is relatively hard to cast, although with 20 red sources I should be OK (sometimes it'll be a 5-drop though and that's getting really sucky).

I lean towards Mortars if I am expecting more small aggro or Mono U devotion. Mortars is just really good against those decks (2 mana to kill Frostburn Weird or Nightveil Specter is pretty damn good; Fated
Conflagration is often going to be too slow to relevantly impact the board, especially if they have Judge's Familiar about).

I would say that overall, Fated Conflagration is better against GR than Mortars, especially if you're on the Firedancer plan (because then killing a Courser is pretty fucking easy), as you're most;y worried about them killing you with burst damage once a Firedancer is set up. Fated is also really nice to bring in against Control; hits everything that Fated hits and kills Planeswalkers which is nice; I usually have 2 Mortars in after sideboard which can sometimes get stranded; Fated would let me answer Jace and keep a burn spell in hand for my opponent (that's kinda like CA) and the scry 2 is obviously super powerful in the deck.

Expected field:
- GR Monsters and Esper: I think Fated Conflagration is better
- Mono U and Aggro: I think Mizzium Mortars is better

With all of that said, I think Fated Conflragation might be a better call for the
weekend. I'm not going to be able to test it much, so I am thinking 2 copies of Fated Conflagration supporting 4 Satyr Firedancer, instead of the previous 3 Mortars and 3 Firedancer. Why? Cost. Cheaper is better. This would also give me nine cards for control (4 Firedrinker, 3 Viashino, 2 Fated) to replace all my bad cards (3 Chains, 3 Shock, 3 Searing Blood) which is SWEET.

This means giving up a small number of points against Mono U (in theory) as I lose early interaction with Mortars, but I hope to gain that back my running the full playset of Firedancer (card they can never beat).

Against GR, I would say that overall, Fated Conflagration is a net-plus to the matchup as it answers the cards you actually lose to (Polukranos and Stormbreath Dragon) whereas Mortars won't always (and Courser of Kruphix is annoying Game 1, but relatively inconsequential given my sideboard strategy after board; its aimed around invalidating this creature).

So, get at me. Am I right or wrong?

New sb would look like
this:

[deck]
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
1 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

vs. UWx: -3 Chained to the Rocks, -3 Searing Blood, -3 Shock; +2 Fated Conflagration, +4 Firedrinker Satyr, +3 Viashino Firstblade
vs. GR Monsters and Mono U: -4 Ash Zealot, -4 Skullcrack; +1 Chained to the Rocks, +2 Fated Conflagration, +4 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Spark Trooper

Still working out how I want to play vs. MBC; one of NZ's top players has offered to jump online with me and test friday night so I can feel confident (that's G0D_L1K3 from the mtgo top 10 rankings). Will let you know what I come up with ofc.

[zemanjaski]

It might be just better to keep in two Skullcrack against Mono U, since they're SO WEAK to Satyr Firedancer its just an easy way to trigger them earlier; Fated Conflagration doesn't answer anything efficiently in the matchup anyway; but you get the idea.

[magicdownunder]

I didn't know G0D_L1K3 was from NZ's, he use to play Bx Devotion allot back in Pre-BnG - I recall beating him with GW a few times during that stage.

[Purp]

God like is in the legacy daily, I must crush him!

[Jonnymagic]

@Z -- I think the tipping point for the choice between the two is how much w/b you'll play. If you think youll play 1-2 matches, it's probably better. If you think none, don't play it. I've absolutely loved it, but its because of that matchup PLUS g/r, not just g/r.

[zemanjaski]

He's still on BW Midrange now, though he has been playing Burn all week to help me test.

[zemanjaski]

I don't expect there to be too much BW although it is possible; I think the way my deck is configured, there is enough upside to Conflagration that I can justify the speculative choice.

Also, I love me some sweet Scry 2 action.

[rcwraspy]

Z in theory I've been treating Fated as a 5th Mortars (4th, actually, but same mindset), not a competing card. If we draw Mortars and need to 2-for-1 with another burn to kill Polukranos so be it. If we draw Fated and just do it with 1, that's good too.

When I get my hands on one on MODO I'll be testing the list I posted above except -1 Searing Blood +1 Fated in the sideboard. Oh I also need 2x Stormbreath on MODO

[zemanjaski]

Dan Paine in the house, how ya been buddy?

[Kyarie]

So, since Fated Conflagration can answer a number of problem cards at instant speed, do you feel you don't need Blind Obedience? Would it be better to cut the Spark Trooper and 1 Satyr Firedancer for the Blind Obedience?

[zemanjaski]

Well, I could run Mortars AND Conflagration; but I like the Firedancer plan a lot vs. some other decks so I want that option. I hear byes against White Weenie, Mono U and GW are a good thing.

[zemanjaski]

I have already explained why I cut Blind Obedience from my GPT decklist.

[rcwraspy]

I don't expect there to be too much BW although it is possible; I think the way my deck is configured, there is enough upside to Conflagration that I can justify the speculative choice.

Also, I love me some sweet Scry 2 action.

Not necessairly just BW. I think the question is, how much do you think you'll see of these specific cards:

Polukranos
Reaper of the Wilds
Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Obzedat
Archangel of Thune

(Mortars hits Blood Baron and Archangel, I know)

You said earlier you think Esper is the deck the better players will be on. Does that mean Blood Baron and Obzedat?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah it probably does. I'd feel a lot better about boarding in Fated than Mortars vs. Esper; it's guaranteed to have value targets.

[Jonnymagic]

I've liked it a lot. I wish it cost less but it really has been a good addition. It even works vs control bc it can blank any PW except vraska unless the - the turn it comes down. That is only really played in that bug superfriends deck though and I've only really seen that in paper.

[rcwraspy]

BW player has 2x Desecration Demon, 2x Underworld Connections, and 1x Gray Merchant on the board. He's at 1 life. I don't have any Mutavaults and just an Ash Zealot in play, but sitting at 17 life. Draw Phoenix for the turn. Normally it wouldn't get through, but he dies to the Blind Obedience trigger before Phoenix even resolves. F'ing love it.

[zemanjaski]

More vids up on CFB today. Honestly not that happy with them.

[zemanjaski]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... rw-burn-3/

[zemanjaski]

DW I will take credit for your contribution.

[Staind Diablo]

Z, what did you think of the Glaring Spotlights in the sb? Did you decide it was just better to be strong against the decks you are more likely to see? I kinda hate feeling like there is a matchup that is basically unwinnable, but I haven't tried the Spotlights yet.

[zemanjaski]

I basically decided that I refuse to play their game and dedicated 2+ sb slots to a deck that is ~3% of the meta isn't worth it; especially when those slots aren't even giving me free wins against it (ie: the matchup is just less terrible, not good).

[Staind Diablo]

Ok, I gotcha. Thanks

[DriftingLifted]

My G/r match-up is doing well, around 60% game 1, 50% match, with the biggest dip G2. I like the 3 Chain main, 3 Mizz side setup although I've also been playing with 2 Satyr Firedancer on the side.

Been having a terrible time with the mirror though, at least the most recent games. Something like 0-4 in matches...I get anxious and play impatiently. I'm assuming that the mirror is a lot more of a waiting game, getting your land drops so you can always hold up the proper reactionary spell to (skull crack or a removal like searing blood). I think I illogically feel I need to spend my mana and race in too many situations then get totally got by the Spark Trooper or Warleader's left in their hand. Going to need to shore up this match-up before the tournament on the weekend, I'll be expecting a couple mirror matches the way Zem's content has been blowing up.

[LaZerBurn]

@Zem - agree on the conclusions RE Fated. Also agree on keeping in 2 Skullcrack Vs MonoU - Dancer is that strong against them

[magicdownunder]

Just don't cut the shock for Skullcrack