[Primer] Boros Burn

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Postby montu » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:28 pm

Burn takes down SCG Seattle.
Looking at the deck list, it reminds me one of the reasons I love playing Rx . . . there are just so many ways to flex the deck. This deck controls early with light burn, and the finishes with heavy creatures and heavy burn. The list I'm playing tries to get early damage with small creatures, control with light burn, and then finish with heavy burn.

I've been considering putting Skullcrack in MB (in place of Magma Jet), but I'm not
convinced just quite yet. Seeing this list reinforces my reservation.

Seeing Z play Blind Obedience against both MDU and yours truly, it's tempting to include it SB.

Fated Conflagration . . . I'm assuming that is specifically for Obzedat? Seems too specific for a SB card. Thoughts?

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Postby Purp » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:30 pm

Skullcrack should me main DECK.
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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:33 pm

The SCG lists are lagging the tech we have here. It's likely they're just being different for the sake of being different, but their lists are definitely suboptimal.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:33 pm

Neil Hartman's winning list was nearer to P Sully's SCG list.

Zem's List was played by Chris Morris-Lent who came in 15th. Burn also came in 11th and 16th :)
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Postby Redzone » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:33 pm

The list is up, looks like someone else went top 8 with burn at the premier.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/digital/Ma ... rn/6865592

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Postby misterbojingles » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:41 pm

Long time lurker, first time commenter.

I'm a bit of a black sheep in my group, but I have a great paper-record with the deck archetype (with an exception of being blown out by a completely wacky meta at one store event), I'm around 67% with the deck against an open (albeit Jund Monsters heavy) field since I started playing it. I thought I would just extol the virtues of a few unpopular cards that have turned out to be role-players for me for purposes of discussion. The first of which is Fated Conflagration.

The card has moved around in my deck both in the main and the SB as a two of (yes, sometimes even a 2-of in the main depending on the meta) and it's never disappointed me. There's never any fear of Obzedats, Blood Barons etc. and it muscles through the first or second big play of G/R monsters while letting you potentially set up your next two turns. Yes it's expensive, and we all want to lower our curves, but
I'll say this much--although the speed, cost and agility of burn are primary reasons this deck is good, red's ability to scry as aggressively as they do is nearly as good/important in my own experiences, and adding the ability to kill things we otherwise have no business killing without two-for-oneing ourselves to a deck with a very tempo-oriented agenda seems solid. It's not a 'wow' card, surely, and there'll be times where it collects dust in the SB, but I'm just suggesting it's perhaps worth more serious consideration as a 2 of in the SB against an open meta. When you call on it though, it delivers.

This brings me to another (pretty big) black sheep pick. I know the number of shocks we ought to have is occasionally debated because sometimes it feels like we're drawing too many, it feels a bit underpowered at times etc., but this is where I feel the scry element comes into play again. I am a huge fan of Magma Jet. HUGE....huge. And because of that, I've been (don't laugh? okaaaayy, laugh)
running 1-2 Spark Jolts over shocks for a while in order to further augment my scry and help dig me to my haymaker spells. It sounds underpowered at first, but frankly, with 1-2 jolts (and some additional temples), I've pushed my scry count in the deck up to 14 and it's felt...blissful. I don't have any numbers to back up this particular one since it's a recent addition, but the inspiration came in large part because of our addition of Blind Obedience (and my goodness, what an ace that card is), and again, I find SJ often does the job of shock for me in many cases anyway. Frankly I've bought into "in scry we trust" as one of the core principles that makes this deck tick.

Anyway, obviously not being dogmatic about any of this stuff, it's all testing/discussion fodder, but I figured I'd say something rather than lurk in the shadows shamefully with my oddball card selections.

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Postby montu » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:43 pm

The list is up, looks like someone else went top 8 with burn at the premier.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/digital/Ma ... rn/6865592
Thanks for posting. I've been seeing more of the MonoB Aggro lately. It can be challenging with they Thoughtseize and Duress you, but so far I haven't lost to it.

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Postby Kaitscralt » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:44 pm

The list is up, looks like someone else went top 8 with burn at the premier.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/digital/Ma ... rn/6865592
:thumbsup:
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby Kaitscralt » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:50 pm

maindeck blind obedience like a literal psychopath
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby montu » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:54 pm

Long time lurker, first time commenter.

I'm a bit of a black sheep in my group, but I have a great paper-record with the deck archetype (with an exception of being blown out by a completely wacky meta at one store event), I'm around 67% with the deck against an open (albeit Jund Monsters heavy) field since I started playing it. I thought I would just extol the virtues of a few unpopular cards that have turned out to be role-players for me for purposes of discussion. The first of which is Fated Conflagration.

The card has moved around in my deck both in the main and the SB as a two of (yes, sometimes even a 2-of in the main depending on the meta) and it's never disappointed me. There's never any fear of Obzedats, Blood Barons etc. and it muscles
through the first or second big play of G/R monsters while letting you potentially set up your next two turns. Yes it's expensive, and we all want to lower our curves, but I'll say this much--although the speed, cost and agility of burn are primary reasons this deck is good, red's ability to scry as aggressively as they do is nearly as good/important in my own experiences, and adding the ability to kill things we otherwise have no business killing without two-for-oneing ourselves to a deck with a very tempo-oriented agenda seems solid. It's not a 'wow' card, surely, and there'll be times where it collects dust in the SB, but I'm just suggesting it's perhaps worth more serious consideration as a 2 of in the SB against an open meta. When you call on it though, it delivers.

This brings me to another (pretty big) black sheep pick. I know the number of shocks we ought to have is occasionally debated because sometimes it feels like we're drawing too many, it feels a bit underpowered at times etc., but
this is where I feel the scry element comes into play again. I am a huge fan of Magma Jet. HUGE....huge. And because of that, I've been (don't laugh? okaaaayy, laugh) running 1-2 Spark Jolts over shocks for a while in order to further augment my scry and help dig me to my haymaker spells. It sounds underpowered at first, but frankly, with 1-2 jolts (and some additional temples), I've pushed my scry count in the deck up to 14 and it's felt...blissful. I don't have any numbers to back up this particular one since it's a recent addition, but the inspiration came in large part because of our addition of Blind Obedience (and my goodness, what an ace that card is), and again, I find SJ often does the job of shock for me in many cases anyway. Frankly I've bought into "in scry we trust" as one of the core principles that makes this deck tick.

Anyway, obviously not being dogmatic about any of this stuff, it's all testing/discussion fodder, but I figured I'd say something rather than lurk in the
shadows shamefully with my oddball card selections.
Thanks for the thought-out comments. One of the challenges with MTG is variance is huge, so it is hard to tune decks . . . you can put in sub-optimal cards and still win plenty. I personally look at synergy and consistency before I look at changes for the metagame. With that said, while there's only a limited number of things Spark Jolt kills outright, it can definitely be a nice way to "top-off" other spells to get that last but of damage in, as well as get a Phoenix back. I too, love scry, in particularly since I tend to round down on the number of lands. I would rather mulligan a 1-land hand than fret over whether or not I should keep a 5-land hand.

I'm not convinced about Fated Conflagration though. Maybe I'll throw it in and see what I think.

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Postby Purp » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:48 pm

The flex slot could always be Glaring Spotlight, at least if you are palying on modo!
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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:59 pm

Totally forgot about that card.
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Postby cloudscraper » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:36 pm

Played the deck today in a 5 rounder. 3 muta 3 guildgate main, no spark troopers but 3 mizzium +4th muta in the board.

2-0 vs eSper control
2-0 vs esper control
2-1 vs mirror match
ID
ID
TOP8: 1-2 vs mirror match, the same guy as before

In general I really really liked the deck, especially the approach to control matchups described by Zem. It seemed to work perfectly.

I also loved Blind Obedience for the mirror match, but i've noticed that the deck is starting to be a known factor in the metagame and people might try to react to it.

Apart from trying to play around Helix with our own skullcracks, trying to chain to the rocks opposing phoenixes and take out AZ for 2 obedience and 2 chained, is there anything else I might be missing about the mirror match?

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:10 pm

The scg winning deck isn't burn. It's more of a midrange deck. Remember the Adrian sully dragon deck? It's that with less dragons, more starting blood.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:17 pm

The scg winning deck isn't burn. It's more of a midrange deck. Remember the Adrian sully dragon deck? It's that with less dragons, more starting blood.
I would say its more inline with what I'll build, P.Sully list didn't run any removal.
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Postby Redzone » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:19 pm

And in the middle of the PE mtgo crashes and hasnt gone up since.. well that's that for today.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:24 pm

The scg winning deck isn't burn. It's more of a midrange deck. Remember the Adrian sully dragon deck? It's that with less dragons, more starting blood.
I would say its more inline with what I'll build, P.Sully list didn't run any removal.
Misalignment of sully. My friend.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:27 pm

And in the middle of the PE mtgo crashes and hasnt gone up since.. well that's that for today.
J_K was 4-0 during that time as well :tears:

How do you guys get the PE to fire? Spam the local channels or do they fill up naturally?

(EDIT: L_P - if ya wanna test Robots on MODO let me know, I reckon you'll do much better with it then me)
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Postby Jedi_Knight » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:29 pm

They fire automatically, at least in standard. about 90 people usually.

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Postby Pedros » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:23 am

Btw mdu I may sell all thseros when they hit 3.3. Want to get some goyfs together?
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:41 am

Disregard goyf. Acquire fetch lands.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:58 am

17 People showed up. Some from Arizona, some from Mexico and a few from the local shop here in Cali. Only 2 people didn't need the byes and I played both of them. Event went 5 rounds with cut to top 4.

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chain to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chain to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Spark Trooper[/deck]

Round 1: Vs B/w Control (2-0)
Game 1: Did not last too long. Held up skull crack expecting to be playing against MBC waiting for Gary. Only real card I saw game 1 was Blood Baron and that point he was forced to play him to have some sort of game but it never mattered. I pushed him too far back that when Blood Baron was on
board I skull cracked when it swung then untapped and Boros Charmed & Lightning Strike for lethal.
Game 2: I boarded out my 2 Chains and brought in Mizziums. I start off with Zealots and Phoenix plan. At the same time my opponent Thoughtseized me twice giving me 4 free damage. One of his Thoughtseizes he misplayed and instead of taking the Mizzium he took a Searing Blood because he was too afraid of the damage. He drops Blood Baron and it was immediately met with the Mortars. Phoenix and Lightning Strike ended the game.

Round 2: Vs U/W Control (2-1)
Game 1: I was too far behind and he took over the game with an Aetherling and Jace.
Game 2: Viashino First Blade & Firedrinkers were in and Searing Blood, Chains and a Shock were out. Game 2 went pretty quick. Ash Zealot into Viashino forcing him to tap and wrath on his turn 4 but it was already too much. Ash Zealot did 6 points of Damage as well as Firstblade. I Helix'd and Boros Charmed for game.
Game 3: Brought in Spark Trooper
because of Elspeth and it paid off. Viashino'd on his turn 4 when he tapped out for Jace after already taking 4 damage from double Magma Jets. He was at 12. I played an Ash Zealot leaving him at 10. He drops an Elspeth for Blockers taping out. Next turn I drop Trooper with Zealot. He takes the 2 from Zealot and blocks 3 from putting him at 5. He draws plays a land and passes with a card in hand. I untap double burn for lethal.

Round 3: Vs Golgari Dredge (1-2)
Guy never played a control match which is deck is completely soft to. At first I thought he was cool but by the end of the night he was a total douche. He went undefeated until I played him again for the top 4.
Game 1: Definitely misplayed wasting burn on some of his creatures and not allowing him to take free damage off of the Herald of Torments.
Game 2: Played to all my outs bringing in my Chains and removing all his big guys. Managed to Boros Charm & Lightning Strike for lethal.
Game 3: Stuck on 3 lands with only 1 white
source. Had control of most of the game but needed to draw a 2nd white source in order to double Chain his bestowed Jarad w/ Nighthowler. Instead topped a mountain. He took it.

Round 4: Vs Junk Homebrew (2-0)
This guy was on TOTAL TILT because my brother stomped him ridiculously bad. He played horribly and I felt bad for the dude but at the same time just have to let things go.
Game 1: Only thing I saw was him put a Brimaz on board but was Chained. After that I burned him to oblivion.
Game 2: Bring in my other Chains and board out a Magma Jet and a Shock. Start off strong with Ash Zealot into Phoenix. He lands one Herald of Torment. It gets chained after he had already taken a point of damage from it. I swing in again with Ashley & Phoenix. He drops another Torment. He takes a total of 3 damage off that thing with me only taking 3 damage total from it. First time I blocked with Phoenix. Second time he swings in for 3 putting me at 17. He swings in again but in response I Helix'd
him for 4 only gaining a life leaving him at 4. He asked if I had charm in hand I revealed and he scooped yelling "FUCKING BURN!" He walked out even more titled and took a smoke break to cool off.

Round 5: Vs U/W Control (2-0)
This was against my buddy and he already had the 2 byes but he still wanted the points and possibly knock out the Golgari Dredge guy in the running. Everyone HAD to play their matches in order to get into top 4 due to breakers.
Game 1: Business as usual. Force him to tap out to Sphinx to survive and it was met with a skull crack. Untapped and killed for lethal.
Game 2: I brought in the team. Firedrinker & Viashino. Turn 1 Firedrinker. Turn 2 Magma Jet and swing with Firedrinker. Turn 3 Viashino with Firedrinker and swing. They get met with a wrath. Turn 4 bring in another Viashino. Turn 5 burned for lethal.
My buddy was happy I won because he wanted to not knock me out for byes since he had them.

Top 4
Rematch against Golgari Dredge Deck. This guy
had previously agreed to scooping to give the byes to someone else if they needed them as long as he got a cut of the prize pool. This guy changed his mind and now wanted $100 of the prize pool in order to buy a box and if he didn't get it his cocky self was not giving anyone the byes. He had already thought he was going into the finals. When he said that to me the fire in my gut was burning. I wanted this guy taken out.
Game 1: We go back and forth but he managed to get me one turn ahead before I had him.
I realized instead of trying to beat this guy and control his board I just need to beat him on lifegain. I knew he had a whip in his board after talking about our decks in the previous match up. Spark trooper came in along side chains.
Game 2: He kept a shitty small land hand with dorks. He takes early damage from Ash Zealot and his dorks were met with Searing BLoods. Boros Charmed for lethal and we went into game 3.
Game 3: I was pumped and more focused than anything. Our decks ran at
optimum but I edged him out. Ash Zealot swings a few times. Then Ash Zealot comes in with Spark Trooper with him taking 6 damage putting me to 24 and him at 9. He hits me for 4 the next turn with me going down to 20. I chain his dude and leave mana up for the two skullcracks sitting in my hand. He drops a whip and brings Jarad back from the graveyard 2 turns after and it was met with a skullcrack with me going to 15 and putting him at 6. I untap, Skullcrack and Boros Charm for game.

Finals: Vs MBC
Game 1: I have to mull down to 4 cards with only seeing one land 3 turns later. He manages to beat me with a demon pretty quick.
Game 2: Board out Ash Zealots and Bring in Blind Obedience and more Chains. Chains came in and took out a demon and out raced his Nightveils pretty quick. Boros Charmed him 3 times and Lightning Striked for lethal.
Game 3: This was the most intense match with everyone locally watching the match up. I was playing against another friend of mine who has been planning to
attend Phoenix also. We decided before hand to split the prize pool of $102 between first and second evenly and just play for the byes. He drew triple Nightveils while I had double Phoenixs. One got chained while the other 2 were on board. Another was killed by a sacrificed phoenix with a searing blood. He thoughtseized himself twice and had an underworld in play. I had helix'd a turn earlier so I was above 20. The last Nightveil was dealth with. He dropped a gary but was met by a skullcrack. We were both low and I misplayed which could have cost me the game. if he had any removal but he was afraid to use underworld because I could have shocked him to death at any point if he did that. I leave a mutavault and a mountain untapped and instead should have left double mountains untapped which would have killed his Mutavault and gave me the game. we trade mutavaults and I go to 2 and he was at 3. I top deck lightning strike for game instead of having to drop a Phoenix and block + Searing blood for
Lethal.

This is what I remembered off the top of my head. I do have video footage of the final and will edit it down and post it online soon.
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Postby Purp » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:03 am

He kept in Connections in G3? He deserved to lose.

Congrats on your win!
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Postby zenbitz » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:09 am

MBD and B/W control side boards.

I am on the fence as to whether I want FDS or VFB in this match up, post board. Firstblade is a guarenteed 4 if they don't have doom blade (and is immune to ultimate price) but FDS can hit for 3 on turn 2 when they probably have templed out. Maybe it matters play vs. draw?

Unsure about BO unless I see a Ghost dad or Whip... but maybe I r doing it wrong?

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:22 am

He kept in Connections in G3? He deserved to lose.

Congrats on your win!
Thanks. Im pretty sure he did but I could be wrong. I have the match on film. Problem people are having when facing me is not knowing what to bring in against the deck. They bring in more removal expecting creature RDW or try to bring in some sort of lifegain that comes in too late.
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Postby Narcasus » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:48 am

I played in a 5k TCG this weekend running the stock list and I felt it went pretty well.

I ended up 7-2 placing 25th out of 320ish people. I also went into the tourny with zero byes where many people got 2 byes from tcg points.

Rounds went as stated below

1: Red devotion 2-1 W The one loss was to unable to hit my 2nd red source until turn 7 even through a scry land and a magma jet.

2: MBD 2-1 W This was one of the closest games of magic I have ever played, I ended up winning off multiple double extory triggers to race playing multiple phoenix. I'm not sure how many of you bring in BO against MBD, but it was a big help this weekend.

3. U/W Control 2-0 W: Not much to say, burn when they tap out.

4. Esper Control 1-2 L : He mentioned he was a grinder online and was taalking to Sulivan to my left about how nice Valencia was. He was a strong magic player and wasn't suprised by burn at all. Game 1 I took
easily, but he brought in both sin collectors and duress and I could never get going either game 2 or 3 with him having a hand full of disruption for my burn and removal for every creature I played. I don't know what to do againt decks that bring in sin collecters but bring in every creature I have, which I did.

5. MUD 0-2 L: This match was super frustrating. Game 1 he curved out amazingly with raptor, owl, specter, specter, MoW. I answered with lightning strikes on the specters and racing with an ashe zealot. I swing in with zealot, he blocks with MoW and i skull crack and feel like he majorly punted. It didnt matter though since the next turn was Tidebinder mage into Thasa. I still thought i could win with him swinging out at 9 life, i would searing blood the tidebinder, turning off thasa, crack back with Ash zealot and charm for the win. Instead he top decks his third specter and i can't turn off devotion and die. Game 2 i mulled to 4 and proceed to almost win but miss my 4th land drop for 2 turns,
making miss some great opporunities to spark trooper and burn him out. I was pretty tilted after this one but was able to relax after a bit of bad beat story telling to my friends.

6. U/W Contol 2-0 W : Same deal, I feel bad playing them.

7. Jund Monsters 2-0 W : I raced game one and drew enough burn to count to 20 and game 2 he kept a two lander with an elf and got stuck on mana after killing the elf and died.

8. MBD 2-1 W : These were close games and with every MBD running lifebane main and not taking them out, i was no longer bringing in Spark trooper but Vashino was able to help in games 2 and 3. I may try the new no creature game plan and see if that works better.

9. MBD 2-1 W : Same story, all 3 great games where I am able to win. He top decked really well in game 2 to push it to the third game, and i drew gas on my last 2 cards in game 3 to close it out

Overall notes would be BO is an amazing card, and I have no idea how to beat multiple sin collectors. I enjoyed playing the deck and
will definitely continue to do so, though my local store is planning on putting a lot of hate into their sideboards after not dropping a game the last 2 weeks.

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:52 am

RE: Fated Conflagration

Its a good, but very overpriced effect. I appreciate that it is a catchall, but Mizzium Mortars does 90% the same thing (doesn't kill Polukranos or Obzedat) at half the price. Also, RRR can be difficult for us, given our mana.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:23 am

Also, Mortars has MUCH more cross-matchup applicability than Fated, in my opinion at least.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:30 am

Got some more ideas to try out...to the surprise of no one.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:34 am

OK, so I think we need an honest assessment of the SB.

Everyone, what do you like, don't like? How effective to the SB strategies feel to you? Be as critical as you like :)

For me, I like the 2 Obedience, 2 Chained, 1 Mutavault and 3 Viashino. I am somewhat open to suggestion on the remaining 7 slots.
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Postby Purp » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:41 am

How has your sb strat of taking out ash zealots against mono b been working? I am starting to think FDS is better vs them than Viashino
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:42 am

OK, so I am thinking of switching Firedrinker for Young Pyromancer. Why?

Firedrinker is only for control, and is only excting on turn 1. It has no synergy with the deck, it stands on its own.

YP has huge synergy with the deck. It is very good against Mono U, Mono B, GW aggro, BW Aggro etc etc. I don't even hate it vs. control; I played with YP HEAPS against control with PyroRed and the card does a lot of work there (the 1/1s add up); you have Boros Charm to protect from Wrath (sick blowout) and killing Jace is easy for Burn, so the card is reasonably threatening there too. I don't know ho good it is vs. GR, but if you're on the tempo draw it's very good obviously.

How's this SB?

2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Viashino Firstblade

How's that as a start? How's my reasoning? What would you add?
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:43 am

I'm 3-0 with it, but I don't think it is correct upon reflection, the games were extremely difficult and I was a much better player than my opponents. That's not a good sign.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:44 am

2 Glaring Spotlight obviously.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:44 am

LP comment, you're my only hope!
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:46 am

This is the obligatory once a week time where everyone has to try and stop Zem from playing his favourite standard legal card.
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Postby Purp » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:47 am

How much better is YP$ to SFD though? Sure vs control, but would you really want to be siding that in? I'd think Searing blood has more of impact in the control matchup than yp$ would...because of jace. they still have to win with elspeths and mutas.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:53 am

I think, as a card, across the format, YP$ is 123861523612391287317-p83423i4t234rlj2mn234uyt234t324jh2342342342t3r4% better than SFD. (derived from extensive playtesting and no bias)

I think a 2/1 body is helpful vs. control, that's often all Firedrinker is. Firedrinker can sometimes sneak in an extra point here or there, but YP$ can generate a bunch of tokens that deal a lot of damage quickly. Yes, it makes us worse vs. jace draws, which were othrewise pretty bad against us, but then its very similar to when you had Jace vs. Firedrinker and needed to keep up mana; it's still manageable imo.

I find YP to be an absurdly powerful card, and I think that so long as you're capable of finding creative lines to solve problems, the card is extremely skill rewarding.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:54 am

As some one who's played with YP a lot...there cards is never really 'bad' so it's easy to self justify putting it in your deck. It literally reads, play cards>value and when you have no spells to play, red decks are fine with a goblin piker.

The problem is, do want just a value guy as a sideboard card? Like, if I was expecting a lot of agro mirrors like W/x GW/x or even red deck mirrors, I could see boarding him, but generally, I want my sideboard cards to be high impact and able to define the pace of play in my boarded games.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:55 am

Like, I know SFD wrecks no removal aggro decks, but so does YP, and YP is actually good if they have removal too.
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