[Primer] Boros Burn

[DriftingLifted]

Feel there's enough relevant non-white targets to justify it over Glare?...what scares you that is white, but isn't an enchantment or can only be exiled. Elspeth doesn't scare us much, and Ephara doesn't either. Archangel and Brimaz can be handled with Mortars, which just leads us back to your thought on a third Mortars.

Wear // Tear can still hit random Coursers, all the god weapons and Jonny mentioned Elixer which seems nice.

[zemanjaski]

If they want to play Elixir I'm fine with that. It's not good.

[amcfvieira]

Amcfveira can you post your list? What are the nine cards you bring in for gr?

My list is your list from post #814 with the third guildgate over Mutavault and the sideboard is the same from last week on paper. It's somewhere diluted in this forum in 800's posts or 900's.
[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to
the Rocks
2 Satyr Firedancer
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
4 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Against RG Monsters I usually side in +2 Blind Obedience, +2 Chained to the Rocks, +3 Mizzium Mortars, +2 Spark Trooper (sometimes +2 Satyr Firedancer); I side out Skullcrack, Ash (If I see a lot of Caryatid), Boros Charm, or something I feel in the moment. When I don't see Caryatid I Like a lot Firedancer, but sincerely I only bring him in a marginal number of games when I feel my opponent play-style is slow. I like to play Firedancer only in mid game, late game, they don't need a good target in early game to take more edge from us.

[zemanjaski]

Glare would hit all the white creatures they like to SB in; plus d-sphere; BO; unflinching courage. The upside of hitting creatures is nice; it's an extra out to GW aggro, BW aggro or midrange; probably some other good stuff I'm forgetting.

I wouldn't bring in wear//tear for a deck like gr with only 4 targets.

[Jonnymagic]

I like wear/tear just because its instant so they can go all in on a whip play that they have to connect with to win the game and I can blow them out. The most value I've gotten is whip > courser > unflinching courage > BO in mirror > Dsphere > ratchet bomb > elixir/pithing needle. I'm running fated atm over mortars bc of obz/polu -- the 4 mana sucks but I've used it a few times to success. I like mortars more, but the one nice thing is my whole deck is still instants which is nice. I've won ONE hexproof match because I got his only lifegain enchantment and was able to race. G/W non hexproof lists run courage too.

[amcfvieira]

I think I consider first a 3 Blind Obedience over a Wear/Tear, Glare, Revoke, etc...
In the match I side out Ash I always want that on turn 2. And it shut down Whip to, only Obzedat will be a problem with Whip and BO in play.

[zemanjaski]

I really don't like drawing multiple BO whereas I do like multiple Mortars.

[zemanjaski]

I can understand the logic though.

Sideboarding a land so OP.

[Jonnymagic]

Glare doesn't deal with whip -- which is the real reason I wanted the card in the first place. I've run with 3 BO and HATE drawing two. I think two is the right number. I'd love to be able to always have it, but I cant risk having two. BO does deal with whip in terms of bringing guys back, but it doesn't deal with the lifegain they get from guys on the board.

[BlakLanner]

4 RW Burn decks in the Top 16 at Seattle.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdata ... &finish=16

Edit - Stupid SCG URLs breaking in the forums.

[amcfvieira]

The only match up that I see problem with Multiple BO in field is against Esper agroo because Detention Sphere can take it all. Sometimes against RG they blow one or shuffle it on my deck, and the second saves my ass. I think I like my sideboard like it is, for now I'm happy with that, but maybe next week I change something. I find some Japanese Viashinos and some Chinese Troopers, so that cards are now some real Shoryuken.

[zemanjaski]

I haven't faced a deck that runs more than 1 whip and I'm not sideboarding for that.

[Jonnymagic]

I totally understand. I've just lost to it so many times that I have to. I played a b/w with it today in g2 and 3 and got to blow it up, so if nothing else I felt very accomplished and at least can keep up some positive momentum instead of banging my head into my desk everytime I see ghost daddy and whip, lol.

[amcfvieira]

If Esper agroo became more popular you will face it more times. In the FNM I lose to that, whip+Obzedat is impossible to beat. I can kill the Obezat with fire but with Whip it will become eternal

[Deht]

4 RW Burn decks in the Top 16 at Seattle.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdata ... &finish=16

Edit - Stupid SCG URLs breaking in the forums.

And one RW Burn in the Top 4.

[Jonnymagic]

This was the list I ran today. Won 3 8 mans. I've been slightly tweaking 3-4 cards a lot, cuz I like to tinker haha.

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
3 Boros Guildgate
4 Ash Zealot
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Shock

3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Blind Obedience
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Wear/Tear
2 Fated Conflagration
2 Chained to the Rocks

[Khaospawn]

First Mortars slows them down, second Mortars ends all resistance.

There's just something beautiful about being able to overload it against R/g.


Simply amazing.

[DXI-Edge]

I can understand the logic though.

Sideboarding a land so OP.

I dont like it...

Honestly? I'm not impressed with most of the lists that Top 16'd. Some card choices make sense, but I'm not 100%.

Assemble the Legion is just bad.

Boros Reckoner doesnt do anything the turn it lands.

Stormbreath Dragon over a Boros Charm just seems wrong.

No skullcrack's main? With the amount of lifegain in standard right now? Really?

I mean obviously some stuff had to work, they top 16'd! but...i dunno. Some of the choices are just...bad

[zemanjaski]

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn as at 5:29pm on 16-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Obligatory next level sideboarding.

[zemanjaski]

My 'understand the logic' comment wa in reference to a 3rd BO in the board.

The decks at the SCG suck, like any list at every SCG basically.

Zem's a mtgo grinder

[zemanjaski]

I mean, guy says MBC is a bad matchup; doesn't maindeck Skullcrack or have access to four in his 75.

[Ajak]

15th place list looks very familiar : http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=64833

I like Chandra in the 75 just on principle.

[deck]4 Searing Blood
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

3 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
9 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Blind Obedience
2 Spark Trooper
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

4th Mutavault in the board is so good; just want to hit my land drops vs. control.

Vs. MBC and BW; board out Ash Zealot and Shock; blank all their removal and just burn them out. Very satisfying.

Vs. Little aggro; become a control deck that 1-for-1s then kill them with Phoenix and Mutavault (that's your ca).

I Agree about Control and small aggro, I'm slightly confused about your MBC and BW plan.

Your still running Phoenix and Vaults so the removals are never really dead - assuming you cut 7 cards what would you bring in which isn't a creatures? 2 Chained to the Rocks (good), 3 Mizzium Mortars (I recalled that you hated this card back in the day), 2 Blind Obedience (really?).

Against BW control (the good versions) your facing down 4x
TS, 3x Duress and 2x Sin Collectors - having creatures is actually safer vs them.

[zemanjaski]

They can't get value against Phoenix; it just means every spell then has draw 1 attached.

Bringing in the Mutavault isn't so I can activate it; it's because I NEED to hit land drops; and sometimes they tap out for demon or Baron; you deal with it then get some value with vaults, but the key idea isn't to be aggressive with them.

I'd rather keep in shock than BO; the plan really is to point 20 at the dome. I'm 2-0 vs MBC with it; but the plan would be less powerful against BW; that's just a better deck against us

[zemanjaski]

Shock vs BO is very close. Interested in hearing what redzone says.

[TBuzzsaw]

So how have the GR Monster match ups been lately with the new lists? I figure I can give Burn a try for the week, but my meta is over 50% GR variants right now.

[zemanjaski]

I'm over 50%. YMMV.

[zemanjaski]

Sup guests? Comment or begone.

[magicdownunder]

Redzones's MD BO seems really appealing, not sure if cutting 2x Chains is the correct call for that though (makes you a tad soft to turn four DD).

Maybe 1x WHL and 1x Shock? or is Chains really the only viable cut?

[Deht]

Just wanted to chime in that I've been really enjoying Blind Obedience especially if the game starts going long or gets into top deck mode. I have yet to lose a game against an aggro deck with Blind Obedience out. Regardless of Blind Obedience, I haven't lost a game to any Black Aggro / Rakdos Aggro decks yet, the burn list just destroys them.

I will say I'm not enjoying how the Naya Hexproof / GW Hexproof decks are starting to get popular at the local stores I play at. Seems like all the GW Aggro players got tired of losing and switched to the Hexproof decks.

[Redzone]

Sooo here goes.

Grinded the deck some more on mtgo, yesterday went quite nicely, 3-1 in 2 DE's and 9-1 in the PE, finishing 1st place.
First of all my statistic since friday is as follows:
mirror 4-2
hexproof 1-1
mbc 3-1
esper control 3-0
bw midrange 2-0
esperhumans 1-0
mono blue 2-1
green devo 1-0
white aggro 1-0
RG monsters 1-1
red devotion 1-0

overall: 20-6, almost 77% win.

What I ran was basically the list we discussed, except with chains sideboard, 2 bo main and wild ricochet side.
I don't remember all the rounds of the PE, 10 rounds is quite a long time, but I remember crushing mbc 2-0 round 1, then got stomped by RG monsters round 2, and faced hexproof round 3.
After losing g1 vs hexproof I almost thought myself out of contention for top 8, especially since not having chains g1 meant voice of resurgence became a real pain.
G2 and G3 I was able to chain the correct targets, use mortars on a
resurgence token with unflinching courage, and barely close out two wins.

In the following rounds I was matched against white aggro, which got surprisingly close (brave the elements and ajani)
By the time round 7 rolled along I was 5-1, with that round deciding whether I'd make it, my opponent played RG monsters but I took it 2-0 because he made the fatal mistake of playing domri g2 when he had ruric thar in play, losing 6 life in the process and bringing him down to an amount where I could boros charm and lightning strike him the turn after for the kill.

Top 8 was against mono blue at first, beat him 2-0, g1 I just held his devotion low and grinded it out, g2 I had chains so I could race.

Top 4 and finals were both vs esper, nothing out of the ordinary except in the finals I held a retarded hand of 2 searing bloods, not knowing that he was esper, then pulled a third one from the top, sitting on 3 dead cards all game.
Game 2 he got mana screwed, didnt draw a blue source so I could just go rambo
on him.
Game 3 was the only fair game we had, he used elixir turn3 but I had enough threats to pressure through.

All in all bo mainboard has been ok, but it has not been decisive in many of the games, I didnt even draw it g1 that often.
Sometimes I drew it and wished it was chained instead, especially in match 2 vs RG.
It was useful in my esper matchups though, since it at least does something even if they counter your spells, whereas chained is just dead there.

8QP yesterday woohoo ;D

[zenbitz]

Not coming from a perspective of great experience or insight here... but having a 1-of of anything (besides vault which is a 4th) in the SB just seems too inconsistent. Whether it's chandra or wear//tear or glare or toil//trouble ... one of the main strengths of deck is consistency, resistance to thoughseize, low number of mulligans. Why add a 1-of that's going to distract you wondering if it will show up or whether to dig when faces should be a-meltin'.?

I can see something like 1x glare instead of 1 chained since they serve a very similar purpose. But going down to 3 chains vs. DD or RG -- not a fan.

[Kaitscralt]

Sooo here goes.

Grinded the deck some more on mtgo, yesterday went quite nicely, 3-1 in 2 DE's and 9-1 in the PE, finishing 1st place.
First of all my statistic since friday is as follows:
mirror 4-2
hexproof 1-1
mbc 3-1
esper control 3-0
bw midrange 2-0
esperhumans 1-0
mono blue 2-1
green devo 1-0
white aggro 1-0
RG monsters 1-1
red devotion 1-0

overall: 20-6, almost 77% win.

What I ran was basically the list we discussed, except with chains sideboard, 2 bo main and wild ricochet side.
I don't remember all the rounds of the PE, 10 rounds is quite a long time, but I remember crushing mbc 2-0 round 1, then got stomped by RG monsters round 2, and faced hexproof round 3.
After losing g1 vs hexproof I almost thought myself out of contention for top 8,
especially since not having chains g1 meant voice of resurgence became a real pain.
G2 and G3 I was able to chain the correct targets, use mortars on a resurgence token with unflinching courage, and barely close out two wins.

In the following rounds I was matched against white aggro, which got surprisingly close (brave the elements and ajani)
By the time round 7 rolled along I was 5-1, with that round deciding whether I'd make it, my opponent played RG monsters but I took it 2-0 because he made the fatal mistake of playing domri g2 when he had ruric thar in play, losing 6 life in the process and bringing him down to an amount where I could boros charm and lightning strike him the turn after for the kill.

Top 8 was against mono blue at first, beat him 2-0, g1 I just held his devotion low and grinded it out, g2 I had chains so I could race.

Top 4 and finals were both vs esper, nothing out of the ordinary except in the finals I held a retarded hand of 2 searing bloods, not knowing that he was esper,
then pulled a third one from the top, sitting on 3 dead cards all game.
Game 2 he got mana screwed, didnt draw a blue source so I could just go rambo on him.
Game 3 was the only fair game we had, he used elixir turn3 but I had enough threats to pressure through.

All in all bo mainboard has been ok, but it has not been decisive in many of the games, I didnt even draw it g1 that often.
Sometimes I drew it and wished it was chained instead, especially in match 2 vs RG.
It was useful in my esper matchups though, since it at least does something even if they counter your spells, whereas chained is just dead there.

8QP yesterday woohoo ;D

i still beat ya, ya bum

[Valdarith]

Burn takes down SCG Seattle.

[PrimalBurn]

So does this mean I get to win a bunch of mirrors in the next week against bad pilots

[montu]

Burn takes down SCG Seattle.

Hmmm . . . so, would one reasonably expect to see more of this deck in the SCG Milwaukee (April 5-6)?

[Kaitscralt]

yes

[Kyarie]

46 Player FNM

List for Reference:

[deck]Creatures:
4 x Chandra's Phoenix
4 x Ash Zealot
3 x Satyr Firedancer

Burn:
3 x Shock
4 x Magma Jet
4 x Lightning Strike
4 x Skullcrack
4 x Boros Charm
4 x Searing Blood
3 x Warleader's Helix

Lands:
4 x Mutavault
4 x Sacred Foundry
4 x Temple of Triumph
2 x Boros Guildgate
9 x Mountain

Sideboard:
2 x Spark Trooper
3 x Viashino Firstblade
4 x Firedrinker Satyr
4 x Chained to the Rocks
2 x Blind Obedience[/deck]

I played my same list as last week. I really need to get a new computer and probably start grinding away with the rest of you online. Otherwise with job and family, I just don't get the opportunity to test and play more than one night a week. I didn't want to change until I had played it a few more times with the exception of the mana change I forgot to do.

I did mean to make the mana base change to:

[deck]Lands:
3 x Mutavault
4
x Sacred Foundry
4 x Temple of Triumph
3 x Boros Guildgate
9 x Mountain[/deck]

I forgot prior to going to FNM and it bit me. The 4 Mutavault land base was responsible for 3 of the 4 mulligans I had to take. All were a single Mountain and either one or two Mutavault. All three times I was holding a mix of Ash Zealot and Searing Blood.

FNM was pretty huge for us with 46 players.

Round 1: vs an online grinder and GP player won 2-1 vs a Bant Ephara Flash Tokens deck. I was on the play and just rolled over him game one - Satyr Firedancer was doing good work here and I wasn't very worried about removal. I misboarded thinking he was playing Bant control and lost game 2. I returned to my original config since I was on the play and it was a close game but a win.

Round 2: vs a regular who often plays control and he played a Bant control list that he threw together because he left his Esper deck in his luggage (just returned from a trip). He was missing a few important spells like Detention
Sphere and I just burned him out. 2-0 win. 2-0 matches; 4-1 games

Round 3: vs GR Monsters. This was an odd matchup. For whatever reason, my opponent chose to play Polis Crusher over Polukranos. Budget or a meta choice to avoid and destroy Chained to the Rocks and Detention Sphere... I don't know. I won game one without any problems and Satyr Firedancer again helped me put on a beating. I boarded out 4 Ash Zealot and 4 Seering Blood and brought in 2 Blind Obedience, 4 Chained to the Rocks, and 2 Spark Trooper. I didn't realize he was running as many elf dorks and that he was running 4 Polis Crusher. Game 2 I lost with Chained to the Rocks rotting in my hand unable to answer Polis Crusher and Stormbreath Dragon. On the play on game 3 I switched up my deck again getting rid of my Chained to the Rocks and Bringing back in Seering Blood. Game 3 ended with me at 34 life. Spark Trooper is a helluva beating if timed right. 3-0 matches; 6-1 games.

Round 4: vs Mirror (Zem's last CFB list with a
few mods). My opponent had been considering a a burn list and liked what he saw that James had written about. His main was 58 of 60. Instead of 4 Mutavault, he ran 2 Mutavault, 1 Temple of Silence and 1 Temple of Malice. He told me that he only owned 2 Mutavault and decided on the temples for the scry and that each can tap to extort with Blind Obedience. His sideboard was quite different with 2 Revoke Existence, 3 Glare of Heresy and an Assemble the Legion with the rest being some part of Zem's list including 1 Spark Trooper, 3 Viashino Firstblade, and 2 Blind Obedience. Game 1 I was on the play and we raced with me winning the race... His greater number of citpt lands cost him the race on the draw. Game 2 we went back and forth and I was short a land for Warleader's Helix and he closed it out when I was at 8 life. Game 3 was frustrating for me. I had to mulligan (3rd of the Mutavault mulligans) and kept with 3 lands and 3 spells (Ash Zealot, Searing Blood, and Boros Charm). Felt fine and let
with Temple of Triumph revealing a Blind Obedience. I felt better. I lost due to only drawing another spell (Lightning Strike) through the rest of the game. Every other draw was another land. I think I ended the game with 9 in play and 2 in hand. 3-1 matches; 7-3 games.

Neither one of us made the best sideboard choices in this match. I think taking out the 4 Ash Zealots and brining in the 4 Chained to the Rocks would be better than my choice. I took out 3 Satyr Firedancers and 1 Shock to bring in 2 Chained to the Rocks and 2 Blind Obedience. With my list I think I should have gone 2 SFD out and 4 Ashley and brought in 4 CttR, 2 Blind Obedience.

So observations: Mana Base switch that most of you have done is a must. Mine will reflect that next week. I'm still loathe to give up Satyr Firedancer because of his ability to convert Boros Charms into a 4 cost 4 damage Searing Blaze. You all are making strong arguments that it isn't a strong card individually and that Mizzium Mortars can hold down
those issues. I think I will be taking him out bringning in Mizzium Mortars and sideboarding a single Wild Ricochet for grins.

Thanks to all who are keeping up such good work on the deck!

edit: Sorry for the weird formatting on second landbase

@ Montu - I would definitely expect to see more Rw burn but the winning list for Seattle was trending closer to your Rw Aggro with a heaping side of burn. You may well be on a good track. BTW good job on your videos.

[Khaospawn]

Was it a Zem list? Cuz Zem lists are the lists of champions.

[PrimalBurn]

amen brother!