[Primer] Boros Burn

[calebjmr]

[card]Chandra's Outrage[/card]

Answers Blood Baron of Vizkopa with gusto.

Also answers Courser of Kruphix

Also answers Stormbreath Dragon

w/ Satyr it answers Desecration Demon

All at instant speed.

I've been testing this card thoroughly and I've never had it be dead if I had mana.

Mortars + Chandra's Outrage + 4 Chains = No threats but Obzedat.

[zemanjaski]

I don't hate it.

I'm cutting Firedancer, I don't face enough decks where I want him. Yeah, that means giving up points vs. Creature decks but they're such a small part of the meta at ~1900.

2 blind obedience
2 chained to the rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Firedrinker satyr
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 spark trooper
3 Vaishino Firstblade

[zemanjaski]

Mortars could be outrage I guess but I just like both modes of the card so much. It's also a perfect single against UW or Esper as it kills any creature they bring in.

[Lightning_Dolt]

You don't want SFD vs Gr? I think I may still need it, since meta seems to be about half aggro and half midrange at my LGS. There is a lot of Gr or Jund monsters.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Also, burning earth is no longer in your good graces?

[jsilv]

My main problem with many of the SB solutions vs. GR Monsters is that they seem to ignore the starts that actually crush you. I'd say the vast majority of my losses to GR have been:
A) Incremental lifegain Courser / Disciple / Ooze present
B) The classic T3 Polukranos, T4 Something Else Soul Crushing draws.

Chained to the Rocks is sweet because it's one mana and helps vs. both. Stuff like Chandra's Outrage doesn't necessarily make an impact against these types of starts and is atrocious on the draw. I liked Spark Trooper to begin with because it was good against the incremental lifegain draws (aka: one more giant burn spell) and at least passable against the second by gaining you six which usually bought you another turn.

Stuff like Guttersnipe probably isn't good enough but is 100x more interesting because it presents a good answer to A (by increasing the potency of your burn) and possibly B. Like I hate my
small ball creatures in this match because unlike last season I can't count on them breaking through, esp. on the draw. Even Chandra's Phoenix just isn't doing all that much work. It takes an extra swing to undo the work of two Courser / Ooze triggers and drawing multiples is miserable because opps get the same amount of damage by attacking you with ONE non-courser creature they have. Fixing this match on the draw would probably require a 7 or more card package and I'm not convinced that's remotely worth it, esp. on MODO where it's 9% of the meta compared to black (22%, 30% if you count BW as well) and UW Control which is 10% (Counting Esper is 14%).

[Lightning_Dolt]

Good point. Thanks

[Lightning_Dolt]

My SB tonight is:

2 chained
2 burning earth
3 spark trooper
3 satyr firedancer
2 blind obedience
3 viashino firstblade

[zemanjaski]

Spirit of the Labyrinth for control?

[zemanjaski]

Sunhome Guildmage is interesting too.

[zemanjaski]

Gore-House Chainwalker for control?

[zemanjaski]

2 assemble the legion
2 blind obedience
2 chained to the rocks
4 firedrinker satyr*
2 mizzium mortars
3 viashino firstblade

SB for the PE. If 25% of the field is MBC, I'm going to run the free win card.

[Rjayz]

Will try piloting this deck tonight for FNM, will be trying with Firedancer in the mainboard seeing the meta here is quite diverse but low on control. Will be trying DXI-Edge's list, with two mortars in the side replacing the Firedancer. I'll report back to let you know how it went

[Jonnymagic]

Finished 2-2 in the DE, lost in the last round to that all in enchant my 1 drop deck in g3 cuz I drew 6 straight land. I'm not too worried about that one, any draw that isn't 4 or more land is an auto win vs that deck bc we answer their threat immediately. I am thoroughly impressed with Blind obedience + outrage vs the ghost daddy and baron. Outrage could be worse than mortars, but they answer the same thing. The only reason I like outrage is it still domes them. I don't think either card is wrong per se, but mortars is more flexible since it has 2 modes. There is more raw power in outrage at the cost of more mana, so I'm not sure which is better. Bottom line is one of those two spells in conjunction with blind obedience makes that matchup muuuuuuuch better. I tried trimming down to 2 chained main and none in the s/b last night, and I think I just got lucky with the matchups that I faced. I think 3 is the right number in
the 75 honestly just because I never really want 2 but I always want access to it in the matchups I need it. Will be playing in my LGS FNM tonight, so I'll report back with the results from that. I'm pretty sure it'll be a preponderance of g/r monsters, but we are in a much better spot against them now I believe.

[JohnnyfnB]

I had 2 Pacifism in my side and went 4-1 at FNM (2nd place). They add to the creature hate vs G/R, Jund, Mono Black and fit nicely on Boros Reckoner. My only loss was to a U/G devotion deck in my last match. In game 3, he top decked a cyclonic rift, overloaded it, and finished me. My 2 Boros Reckoners was holding him back. He was at 4 life and dead when I untapped or dead if he attacked into my Reckoners. Now that G/R has become Jund, Boros Reckoner really doesn't fit in the 75 anymore. He was in there mainly for G/R and aggro decks. That night I beat G/R monsters, Mono Black and G/W aggro.

I still like Firedancer, because you can continue the plan of burning up top and not worry about the creatures. I tried Guttersnipe and they gunned him down faster then they do Firedancer. He looks sexy, but I found that he doesn't provide immediate value. If you play him on 3, you might not even use him. You play him on 4,
you might get a shock off. You don't play him till turn 5, whats the use?

Anger of the Gods has been tossed around. You can Anger, then apply a shock to a creature for 5 or a Lightning Strike for 6. Yes it's a negative 2 for 1, but if you don't answer particular creatures at times, it's game over. Chandra's Outrage is certainly noteworthy, but I wouldn't want to rely on Firedancer to assist. That might have to be a Chandra's Outrage + Shock = answer for Obzedat or Des. Demon. There is also just siding Fated Retribution, It actually can be used against any deck really. If they don't have creatures, they have planes walkers.

EDIT*

This was my list that night.
Creatures 11

4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Lands 23

4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
12 Mountain
1 Plain

Spells 26

4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Warleaders Helix
3 Skullcrack

Sideboard

1 Boros
Reckoner
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Glare of Hersey
1 Pithing Needle
1 Skullcrack
2 Trouble
2 Last Breath
2 Revoke Existence
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Pacifism

[Lightning_Dolt]

Took down FNM without losing a single game. Report tomorrow morning, tired now.

[Khaospawn]

Good job, JS.


Er, L_D.

Fuck it, I'm just calling you Keith.

[LaZerBurn]

I'm in on that one Khaos! Well done Keith!

[zemanjaski]

Last Breath in the sideboard of the Burn deck? Now I have see it all!

[JohnnyfnB]

Last Breath in the sideboard of the Burn deck? Now I have see it all!

I knew I was going to catch flak for that. I know it's counter productive and it's gone. I sided it, because the place I play is very Mono U and Fiend Slayer Paladin happy. It's out now.

[zemanjaski]

SB cards I am happy with:

2 blind obedience
2 chained to the rocks
4 firedrinker satyr*
3 viashino firstbalde

*I kinda want to try Gore-House Chainwalker. It would put less pressure on the mana base, but I suppose the upside to Firedrinker is so much higher.

Currently trying 2 Assemble, 2 Mortars. Assemble has been fucking terrible; I knew going to 5 drops in this deck wasn't good but I tried it anyway Mortars has been the same as Mortars always is; overpriced Flame Slash or free-win card. Assemble probably becomes Spark Trooper so I have more cards for GR, while still hating on small aggro and mono U.

[Purp]

Zem against control if you dont have either a FDS or Ash post board... are we snap mulling to 6?

Also, as you mentioned I might be playing the mono u matchup incorrectly. How are you SBing? I play with the plan that if I don't have a chain in my hand, I try to keep their devotion low to prevent a big Master. If I have a chain in hand, I am typically much more inclined to race.

[zemanjaski]

I wouldn't say we're snap mulling. Maybe I have a Muta or a Viashino and I think I can leverage something there. It's hard to say. But generally yeah, you're boarding in creatures because they're so important.

Broadly sounds like you're playing against Mono U correctly, but you were telling me its a 25% matchup for you, and it just cannot be that low. I am tracking slightly over 50%, but I would wager anything less than 40% might be due to small sample size. How are you boarding for the matchup?

[DXI-Edge]

9 times out of 10, if you can count to at least 12 in your hand, race. Barring a nut draw and needing to get Phoenix through, just race

Plus Firedancer just laughs at that matchup

[zemanjaski]

How'd your testing go DXI? I can jump on skype if you like.

[Purp]

Depending on which SB I am running(assuming SFD), it is usually -4 Ash, -4 Skullcrack. +X Chained, +X Spark Trooper, +X SFD.

Also, do we kill judge's familiar to get them off the board?

[BrainsickHater]

The meta at my LGS is mostly creature decks with a decent MB/BW presence. Out of the creature decks it's everything from cheap, fast aggro to midrangey stuff. This meta is quite a bit different than the meta on MODO which is what a lot of the discussion here is about, so I'd like to get some feedback on some maindeck and sideboard card choices.

Due to the prevalence of creature decks I'm maining three firedancer. My sideboard looks like this:

3 Spark Trooper
2 Blind Obedience
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Shock
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Mizzium Mortars

I'm thinking the ability to go up to four shocks is valuable against faster aggro decks and to neuter the nut draws of GR aggro. Mizzium mortars is a concession to any deck that plays reasonably sized creatures while still be relevant against UW control. I felt I needed something in case I ran into one of the sparse UWx control decks, so I run firstblade,
which is better against MB than FDS. The rest of the board I think is pretty standard; I'm electing to go down the spark trooper route because I expect to have to race frequently.

[BrainsickHater]

Also, I'm considering switching out the shock for Chandra, because that card is nuts. It's spews out card advantage against control and MB, but it's also really good when I have to try and control the board against creature decks. All my burn is +1 damage to a creature and I can draw two cards a turn so that I can afford pointing some more burn at dudes. It also lets me push through more damage when it's time to end the game.

[zemanjaski]

The meta at my LGS is mostly creature decks with a decent MB/BW presence. Out of the creature decks it's everything from cheap, fast aggro to midrangey stuff. This meta is quite a bit different than the meta on MODO which is what a lot of the discussion here is about, so I'd like to get some feedback on some maindeck and sideboard card choices.

Due to the prevalence of creature decks I'm maining three firedancer. My sideboard looks like this:

3 Spark Trooper
2 Blind Obedience
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Shock
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Mizzium Mortars

I'm thinking the ability to go up to four shocks is valuable against faster aggro decks and to neuter the nut draws of GR aggro. Mizzium mortars is a concession to any deck that plays reasonably
sized creatures while still be relevant against UW control. I felt I needed something in case I ran into one of the sparse UWx control decks, so I run firstblade, which is better against MB than FDS. The rest of the board I think is pretty standard; I'm electing to go down the spark trooper route because I expect to have to race frequently.

This honestly looks very solid, good work. You're not over complicating things, everything is very logical.

[Jonnymagic]

My s/b for tonight is very similar -- 3 sparkies, 2 BO, 4 chained, 3 VFB, chandra instead of shock, and im gonna be greedy and try 1 mortars 1 outrage.

[Valdarith]

[deck]
Creatures (21)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (19)
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood

Lands (20)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
11 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
3 Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

The strategy here is based loosely on my PyroBlack build, but it's close to what I was thinking a Rw Sligh build would look like. It's much less dependent on nonred mana than my PyroBlack build but the only terminate effect you're running is Chained and it's dead against control. It plays 16 burn effects so I don't know if that's enough to be included in this discussion but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.

[DXI-Edge]

How'd your testing go DXI? I can jump on skype if you like.

I'm at work, I may talk to you on Skype tonight if your not busy.

Testing went well, Firedrinker is back in my board, and I still really like Firedancer vs. GR. I went 50/50 with my deck vs. GR and the games I lost I was one turn away from winning each time, so its a VERY close matchup.

Only matchups I feel unwinnable in are BW, and I still take games from them, and Hexproof Auras (which is nigh impossible)

I need one more card for the sideboard, right now leaning towards Chandra's Outrage, considering Flame-Wreathed Phoenix for the GR matchup, considering the 1st Spark Trooper, the 4th Firstblade, or a Chandra

Sideboard is as follows:
4 Firedrinker
1 Firedancer
4
Chained to the Rocks
3 Firstblade
2 Blind Obedience

[zemanjaski]

Just won back to back matches vs. GR. Let's keep getting lucky haha.

I am siding: -4 Boros Charm, -4 Skullcrack; +2 Chained to the Rocks, +2 Blind Obedience, +2 Mizzium Mortars, +2 Spark Trooper. That actually feels like a cohesive strategy now.

@ DXI-Edge; 1st Chandra has the random highest upside. Good against control, good against small creature decks.

[Purp]

Z how are you siding for Mono U?

[zemanjaski]

Why my current SB config, would have to be the same as GR actually; though I might experiment with cutting Zealot and leaving Boros Charm in. Zealot is pretty awful in the matchup.

[Elricity]

Gore-House Chainwalker for control?

From experience, firedrinker is better but chainwalker vs control is a close second if they're packing last breath. I actually like chainwalker more vs GR or mono B since it can bust carytids and specters.

Someone mentioned Gauntlet so I figured I'd mention since I used to use it. Sadly, it's too slow at 5 CMC.

[DXI-Edge]

Why my current SB config, would have to be the same as GR actually; though I might experiment with cutting Zealot and leaving Boros Charm in. Zealot is pretty awful in the matchup.

Gee, I wonder who told you that last week

You should be going -4 Zealot -4 Skullcrack vs. Both GR and Mono-Blue.

[BrainsickHater]

Zealot is better against GR because if they're fool enough to block with a fatty you can take it with burn.

[BrainsickHater]

Although I suppose that I would rather have Boros Charm....
I've lost some close games just because my burn was only doing three points of damage.

[Elricity]

Zealot is better against GR because if they're fool enough to block with a fatty you can take it with burn.

Sylvan Carytid