[Primer] Boros Burn

[BlakLanner]

Do I really see BlakLanner lurking this thread?

Yep! With my account and financial issues finally solved, I have made my "glorious" return. Who is running the MODO clan these days?

[zenbitz]

Depends on the deck you're playing against. I could be lazy and just say it controls tempo, but I will be specific. Haste is rendered useless (sucks for aggro), and you get an extra turn to deal with whatever has just entered the battlefield. Against BW, it makes Obzedat, Elspeth, and Lifebane Zombie not as scary. You also won't have to deal with your opponent generating a Pack Rat token during combat to block.
Against GR, Boon Satyr, Stormbreath Dragon, Mistcutter Hydra, etc. are all taken down a peg. If your opponent doesn't have a way to deal with it, Blind Obedience can ruin their day.

I was specifically responding to the question right above mine of whether it's good vs uw heroic and indirectly stating why I think it's not.

I guess my not fully considered thought was that early pressure on the play is good and their guys can't block for a turn... but specifically... the only thing this matters against is probably Brimaz (can be annoying blocker on turn 3)... everything else they are running we want them to block before they suit it.

[Jonnymagic]

Thoughts on renounce the guilds for ghost daddy and obzedat. My only concern is its a very narrow card, but it deals with both very effectively and at no cost to us since we only have one multicolored permanent and that is out of the s/b.

[dauntless268]

I wouldn't cut Chained out of the board for the reasons you said, Jonny. You definitely want it in a lot of matchups. I'm just not sure it's where you want to be against GR.

I think if GR is popular enough it's going to force a concession and you'll have no choice but to find room for four Spark Trooper. Potential 12-point life swings in that matchup are huge. It's the most impactful spell you can be playing against them. Why not run as many as you can?

Adapt the manabase to make Spark Trooper better?

[laranjaBR]

I was wondering if Aurelia's Fury is any good VS GR Monsters... Tap'n some of their creatures wouldn't help us race?

[BlakLanner]

Thoughts on renounce the guilds for ghost daddy and obzedat. My only concern is its a very narrow card, but it deals with both very effectively and at no cost to us since we only have one multicolored permanent and that is out of the s/b.

In a meta like mine where half the players are using Blood Baron, Obzedat, Domri, or DSphere, it is great. If I were going to an Open or GP, though, I wouldn't bother. We either have easy answers to or can completely ignore most of that list (A resolved Obzedat is a real pain unless we are on a BO plan.). Those sideboard slots would be better server shoring up our rougher matchups in that case.

[LaZerBurn]

DTR Clan thread is here BlakLanner What's your nic on MTGO?

[BlakLanner]

I was wondering if Aurelia's Fury is any good VS GR Monsters... Tap'n some of their creatures wouldn't help us race?

I tried it. Best I was ever able to hit for is 4. It doesn't hit Stormbreath or Caryatid, either. I would pass on it.

[BlakLanner]

DTR Clan thread is here BlakLanner What's your nic on MTGO?

So we moved to DTR instead of the old FoS clan? I can live with that. MTGO name: BlakLanner

[Khaospawn]

New strategy:

We just approach every match like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw

Ghost Dad can't repel firepower of that magnitude! Take that, R/g Monsters!

[Khaospawn]

Ok, admittedly, that last post was utter spam. Sorry, guys.

[laranjaBR]

I was wondering if Aurelia's Fury is any good VS GR Monsters... Tap'n some of their creatures wouldn't help us race?

I tried it. Best I was ever able to hit for is 4. It doesn't hit Stormbreath or Caryatid, either. I would pass on it.

Then Chandra's Outrage? Does not hit Caryatid, but hits Stormbreath Dragon and the dome... also helps Ashley against Polukranos.

[LaZerBurn]

DTR Clan thread is here BlakLanner What's your nic on MTGO?

So we moved to DTR instead of the old FoS clan? I can live with that. MTGO name: BlakLanner

Invite sent Welcome back

[Purp]

wrong thread

[Khaospawn]

I'm liking this Chandra's Outrage idea, but the amount of 4-drops in the deck are pretty high as it is if you're on the Sparky plan. Which I am, cuz I just can't quit him yet.

[Jonnymagic]

Thoughts on renounce the guilds for ghost daddy and obzedat. My only concern is its a very narrow card, but it deals with both very effectively and at no cost to us since we only have one multicolored permanent and that is out of the s/b.

In a meta like mine where half the players are using Blood Baron, Obzedat, Domri, or DSphere, it is great. If I were going to an Open or GP, though, I wouldn't bother. We either have easy answers to or can completely ignore most of that list (A resolved Obzedat is a real pain unless we are on a BO plan.). Those sideboard slots would be better server
shoring up our rougher matchups in that case.

But I would say our 2 hardest matchups (at least in my personal experience) are g/r monsters and b/w midrange -- so wouldn't that be good s/b slots to help against poor matchups?

[BlakLanner]

But I would say our 2 hardest matchups (at least in my personal experience) are g/r monsters and b/w midrange -- so wouldn't that be good s/b slots to help against poor matchups?

It may be. It is more a matter of sideboard efficiency.

Against GR, it only hits Domri and Xenagos (and Reaper of the Wilds in GRb). An early Domri sucks but we should be finishing them off around the time Xenagod hits the board. Blind Obedience should slow them down enough on its own.

Against BW, it hits a few of their must-answers in Blood Baron and Obzedat. Blind Obedience again slows them down (especially Obzedat). However, since we lose outright to an Obzedat we don't answer immediately or to a Blood Baron we let linger for more than a turn or two, having
extra hate may help. If your meta includes a lot of those cards, you may be able to find room for a couple copies of Renounce.

I am not convinced that, in an open meta, we can afford to give up other sideboard options to add Renounce. Personally, I am really considering the Chandra's Outrage plan. It answers Blood Baron outright and can take out an Obzedat or Desecration Demon if you have Ash Zealot or Firedancer backup. It also provides a clean answer for Stormbreath, Archangel, and Brimaz.

[Jonnymagic]

Ya im liking the outrage too. I don't know if its quite as good without firedancer (as Zem is leaning towards cutting him lately, which I can't decide for or against yet), but it does seem like a better option than mortars simply because at least we dome them for 2 in addition to answering the threat.

[laranjaBR]

I'm liking this Chandra's Outrage idea, but the amount of 4-drops in the deck are pretty high as it is if you're on the Sparky plan. Which I am, cuz I just can't quit him yet.

I may sound a little bit crazy here but what if you boarded out Warleader's Helix (since it does not hit the Dragon anyway) for Chandra's Outrage vs GR because of the mana curve?

I mean, we give up the life from Helix, and it is better to help us count to 20, but the Dragon is gone for good. Outrage also hits Blood Baron, which is never a bad thing.

Another option, more on the controlish site, is Celestial Flare, which I don't like very much

[Valdarith]

The 8-point lifeswing from Helix is much more important than the marginal value from Outrage.

[BlakLanner]

Flare is double white. Our manabase cannot reliably support it. We really do need some form of lifegain to slow them down so I am not liking to cut Helix. It might be correct to play Spark Trooper and Outrage against GR, but I am not sure if we have enough room in the sideboard for both.

[Jonnymagic]

Spark trooper is EXCELLENT in creature matchups that are removal light, so mono u, WW, g/r, and the b/r aggro. There honestly isn't a better card for those specifically. To me, outrage is specifically for baron and angel -- because if we don't deal with them we're dead. With blind obedience, we can slow dragon down enough to generally kill them -- so we really dont try to deal with dragon in that matchup, we just try to kill them first. That is why helix and sparky are the MVPS of the g/r matchup.

[Khaospawn]

Couldn't have said that better, Jonny. Good form.

[terrancoleman]

i dont know if anyone has mentioned this but the card Pay no heed can fog a storm breath dragon burn spells and even huge Hexproof creatures with lifelink. i think it should be looked at for the sideboard.

[Elricity]

I personally think you're going very much the wrong direction if you start getting too reactive with this deck versus midrange. You're not stalling to get some sort of super bomb here, fellas.

[Jonnymagic]

This deck can't beat hexproof agro. It just cant happen. The only way we beat it is if they stumble hard on mana AND don't draw lifelink suits.

[Purp]

I both lost to it 2-0 and beat it 2-0 at the open. I didn;t SB correctly the first time I faced it. The second time, I brought it one drops, and spark trooper and won pretty easily.

[terrancoleman]

you may be right its just that sometimes i feel like this deck is a turn to slow in some match ups. and thats a lot to ask for jonny @_@ never thought about bringing fire drinkers in on that matchup. interesting.

[Chma]

I confidently took the deck to an 8-man tonight. Lost in round 1 against Cifka on uw. Game 2 I made some pretty bad plays, but both game 2 and 3 archangel of thune, fiendslayer paladin and even soldier of the pantheon made the games neigh impossible. I don't think I even got him down to double burn range once.

Game 3 I kept a 2-land hand with ash zealot and double skull crack, then drew 3 viashino's and 2 helix.

[Jonnymagic]

It is a lot to ask for. Which is why it is a terrible matchup, haha. The only answer is anger of the gods, and even that is only if you draw it before they suit them up. U/W is a matchup that completely depends on how much early damage you can get in, and if you can resolve a skullcrack without it being countered.

[BlakLanner]

Someone on the other forums suggested Ratchet Bomb. Might be a good answer against most aggro instead of Anger.

[zenbitz]

Only thing I could think of against monsters (see previous posts and rampager) was Divine Verdict for 1 chain, just to do something >4 damage at instant speed. Could theoretically kill a Ghost Dad (should it get frisky and block or attack) but still useless against Baron/Stormbreath.

I agree we have to rely on the rest of the meta to take out Hexproof pants, although if it was a little more popular I think it would be an argument for brining back firedrinkers. Probably gives us a 25% chance to win. Could also play wear/tear or revoke existence (Because Bow and Whip are both horrible).

RATCHET BOMB was what we were talking about last night. Kills Sylvan Carytid, D-sphere (sometimes we care), RGB 4 drops (although SO SLOW), even runaway pack rats we were too lazy to burn before they got mutavault.

Not sure we can cut chains for it though.

[DXI-Edge]

ugh no we cant run ratchet bomb in this deck -_-

Honestly I'm considering going back to firedancer main to open up slots in the sideboard, and its a fine card in all matchups except control, which we're fine against Game 1 normally.

Will come back with an update when I fix the main

[Purp]

I was thinking the same Edge. I think we leave ourselves more vulnerable in most match ups by not having Firedancer main.

[JohnnyfnB]

Hey guys, been following the thread. I'm new to the forums, but recently returned to Magic. I like Chandra's Outrage too. I like the synergy that it has with Firedancer, but do you think that Homing Lightning could be considered? It doesn't do direct damage, but if there are 2 Stormbreaths, 2 Blood Barons, or a few Pack Rats, this card is better than Chandra's Outrage. I might be overreaching here, but it seems viable to me. Thanks.

[BlakLanner]

If your opponent has two Barons or Dragons on the field, you are already dead. You just don't quite know it yet.

[JohnnyfnB]

Not if I just ripped a Homing Lightning? : P

[Purp]

While I think naming cards as theories are good ideas and help contribute, but we seem to be losing focus. The cards that are being recommended would dilute our SB plans vs other decks. Trying to improve marginal matchups by weakening other matchups is not a solution. I think we are only a few cards off of a perfect list, but no matter what.. Increasing playskill with the deck will ultimately improve win %.

[JohnnyfnB]

I agree with you Purp to a degree, but I respectfully disagree that Homing Lightning is diluting the build. For instance, versus Pack Rat when they activate their Mutavault, it too gets burned. I know the card seems janky, but I think it has a valid reason for consideration. B/W is one of our toughest match ups and it runs Pack Rat, Mutavaults and Blood Baron. To each his own, I just wanted to share my idea.

[calebjmr]

I've been championing Chandra's Outrage for a few pages now, and I actually got to test it--and at least with paper magic it is a total house.

Synergy with Firedrinker makes nearly everything but monsterous creatures a 1 for 1.

Hits all the key cards in every deck except for ghost dad, reaper, and poluk and still does some to the dome without satyr, and everything with satyr.

Its awesome for a back swing coup.

4 Mana open, pass
They tap out for a big dude, burnface.
Backswing with your phoenix you got back.