R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

[Pedros]

Still trying to decide between taking Burn or this to PTQ. Leaning to RB since I am having terrible time piloting Burn and even though it's one hell of a deck it plays entirely different from I've been playing the last three months.

Seems like we've really come full circle. I went back to 2 Mutas on 25 lands too... currently trying one Chandra MD and one in SB (3 reasons: works as an effective health buffer against aggressive decks, is able to ping the small dudes and she still does wonders against UWx). Really happy with the pack rats: even though what Guttler said is true, them being removal magnet works in our favor because frankly every one of our creatures is removal magnet aside from Phoenix.

I ain't getting rid of Anger in SB. Every aggro matchup
I pray to Purphoros to draw it and when I do, it works wonders. Another reason is that I really expect more people to pack either weird aggro brews or classic/pyro RDW to the PTQ than they do online. Solves Xathrid Necromancer problem too.

Also dropped Skullcrack count to three only: I am not that happy with drawing multiples against Bx devo.

And finally I am still having serious issue with Burn online (the meta on that one settled on the 8creature version it seems) - the match is always really tight and confident plays often leads to total blowouts which I learned yesterday (played SBD only to be Helixed eot and Sparked (Troopered) the next one. I felt like a total idiot looking at the Magma Jet and Skullcrack in my hand. Lesson learned.).

Luckyly you wont face me in Prague this weekend - have a lot of work for my last year at university. I am rooting for u heavily, hope we will meet in Warsaw or in some other PTQ in middle Europe.
I would take deck
you played most for gp or ptq - I played helluva lot of games with RW agro and had good results - 11-3-1 in GP Vienna and 6-1 + top 4 of ptq. Experience > last tech. Small changes doesnt matter.

Now I might be back into game to this deck, as it really goes backward to Dos Packis (or as Lazer once pointed out - Dos Pedros as I was first to introduce rat to this deck).

[magicdownunder]

I don't really think Anger stops Xathrid Necromancer since the ability triggers on death rather then hitting the yard.

In regards to Pack Rat, I decided against it since it doesn't improve my Control or Bx game I may try Ash Zealot at 3x or 2x (18 red sources is enough, Pyrored run 18 mountains and 4 vaults if you recall).

I still havn't dropped an entire match to burn yet, but if they're really causing you grief add 1-2 Whip of Erebos, they can't stop it.

[LP, of the Fires]

I don't really think Anger stops Xathrid Necromancer since the ability triggers on death rather then hitting the yard.

In regards to Pack Rat, I decided against it since it doesn't improve my Control or Bx game I may try Ash Zealot at 3x or 2x (18 red sources is enough, Pyrored run 18 mountains and 4 vaults if you recall).

I still havn't dropped an entire match to burn yet, but if they're really causing you grief add 1-2 Whip of Erebos, they can't stop it.

Creatures have to hit the graveyard to "die" so anger does indeed counter necromans ability

[magicdownunder]

I don't really think Anger stops Xathrid Necromancer since the ability triggers on death rather then hitting the yard.

Creatures have to hit the graveyard to "die" so anger does indeed counter necromans ability

Thanks , Looks like I still have lots to learn.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Lesse' not much to report, besides I'm using the RB version with equal color split. (LBZ main instead of vexing phoenix [love that nickname btw])

I like it atm because it makes hitting the double black for downfall or lbzs out of side easier. That said, I want 3 downfall in this version.


Not sure if I'm gonna go back to the phoenix version that is main red, cause that version causes me more problems then the RB manawise, cause hitting the BB is tougher it seems e.e

[magicdownunder]

I'm confused, you have no issues casting Chandra's Phoenix but Vexing Phoenix somehow strains the color base?

I don't think the color base is a good reason to shy away from Vexing Phoenix, though curve consideration is

Not saying that LBZ is bad or anything (he is great), I'll run him as well if I didn't hate Jund monster.

[RaidaTheBlade]

No, no it's not the phoenix himself but the way the lands get setup.

There's two builds here, one with phoenixs, 7 mountains, 4 swamps; and then one with zombies, and an equal number of mountains and swamps.


The thing I'm saying is that when running the more red list with phoenixes, hero's downfall and the zombies out the board get more difficult to cast reguraly. I like the one that's split down the middle, cause getting BB is easier, and I can run a third downfall main more comfortably.


That said, the only difference is a few lands and phoenixs vs zombies, so they're basically the same anyway

[Guttler]

@Raida

But by playing more swamps it makes Chandra's Phoenix harder to cast and it can potentially hurt being able to sequence 2 spells in the same turn.

On LBZ main, having them main is great if you play vs G/x decks all day, which is a match where Vexing Phoenix is good already. LBZs are just french vanilla creatures vs a large portion of the metagame. I think having them sideboard only is fine.

It's always going to be hard having RR and BB in the same deck, but I prefer to lean on red because the vast majority of spells are red. Sure, that does make some sideboard games riskier on the mana, but one thing about good decks is that they are usually pushing their manabase to the limit.

@MDU I notice you often board out Spike Jester vs decks like R/G and Burn. I actually kind of like them in those matches.

vs G/R it's a creature that Sylvan Caryatid can't chump, but it still gets chumped by Courser. In this
match, I see Shock and being bad if your on the play and Magma Jet as being bad if you're on the draw, G/R doesn't run enough creatures that die to 2 damage to justify the inclusion imo. I like to keep some burn in to hedge against turn 1 Elvish Mystic, but I think Spike Jester is a great beater vs G/R since it can put them under pressure early while your terror their few large creatures.

vs Burn, you want every card to deal as much damage as possible. Spike Jester can be a great early creature because of the pressure it puts on them to either use a burn spell on it and stop themselves from being clocked or use that burn on your face to bring you down to lethal range. I understand it turns on their Seering Bloods, but those will always deal 3 to you because they'll use it on a Chandra's Phoenix or double burn an Exava or SBD. I'd rather cut spells like shock and the terrors first. Vs Burn a good offense is the best defense.

[magicdownunder]

I board out Jester vs Burn when did this happen @_@ I board out most of our crappy 'terrors' and worthless non-haste creatures in that MU

I do board them out vs Gr though, which is a shame because I also like them very much I that MU - not sure what else to cut though (Shock plus anything usually kill anything in the Gr MU - its not bad), I'll work on it

(keep in mind, I'm on a forced break due to RL so I haven't been working on anything for awhile, which really suck because the Standard MOCS1 is just around the corner).

EDIT: App. I did board out jester (its even on video) - my defense is that I was on Full-Retard mode.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Actually, MDU, Guttler is right. Match 2 of your most recent videos, you sided out the jesters and dreadbores for 3 doom blades and 4 skullcracks. Then after game 2 switched the cacklers out for the jesters again.
I actually commented on it earlier with my thoughts, which I'll repost here:

"Hey MDU, I kinda wanted to discuss something. I disagree with your sideboarding in this match, mainly after the first round. It's not that they were horrible, but I don't think they were the best either.

The way I see this match, it goes back to the 'who's the beatdown' core concept. They are the control nominally speaking, while i reality it is a race, but they still fall into the control role more.

He runs some creatures, but we already have enough removal for them, so I don't like removing creatures at all.

When I've played vs them, I leave in all my creatures and bord some of the kill spells for skullcracks.

Really the only difference between us here sideboarding is that you have 4 less creatures, 3 doom blades, and an extra skullcrack.
I really don't like doomblade here, since all the creatures they run die to our burn spells already, and they just don't have enough creatures to justify bringing in even more removal.

So yeah, it goes back to "who's the beatdown?", and that would be us. Dropping creatures, especially cacklers or jesters, goes against that role and weakens us IMO.

It's more of a playstyle thing I guess, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion's sake."


TLDR: I think cutting creatures at all was a bad idea vs that deck, and we should just focus on trying to beat them down, since we are the beatdown and that matchup is a bit of a race


@Guttler; yeah that's actually a pretty good point. And to be fair, the more redbase with vexing phoenix did great work for me on gameday

[magicdownunder]

I should place a disclaimer on that video with the words "Warning I was on full-retard mode while playing" I've stopped boarding out creatures for awhile now.

That video was shot a week in advance vs Burn with that old list I'll board out:

Out:
4 Rakdos Cackler (on the Draw)
2+2 HDF + Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (on the play)
3 Dreadbore

In:
3 Doom Blade
4 Skullcrack

Keep in mind, I don't have a magic guide or anyone to ask for help from for this list so I need too pioneer my own choices (which takes proper experience to create good ones).

Hopefully you guys learn from my mistakes and improvements

We are the Aggro deck vs Burn we just need to overload them and win, if we have Whip it becomes
a cake walk.

[RaidaTheBlade]

I still don't like bringing in doomblade over creatures. The burn list's creatures are all easily killed by our burn, and those can also be used for other things. The doomblades just feel like they're not gonna have targets all the time, and that having a threat on board would be better in that matchup.

Not saying it's bad or will lose the game, but that's just my thoughts.


Also, I do understand that. You do insane amounts for this deck and others like it by spending so much time playing, refining, and theorycrafting with them. I've got a lot of respect for you, and wish that I could do a fraction as much as you do for the deck...
I do try though, so maybe one day ;P
[/sappy]

[magicdownunder]

Depends on the lists really, if I don't see any Boros Reckoners on G2 I'll happily return the creatures over Doom Blade (I don't like the idea of being stone walled by Reck very much)

Also thanks for the props, I do my best on any list I work on.

[magicdownunder]

BTW the cat is out of the bag, it seems that the list won a few highly populated DEs so now it carved out a small portion of the known meta.

[MattT]

@All

Gahh!! FINE I'll test it, hate you guys on DtR with your convincing arguments though Pack Rat looks so sweet....

I´ve tested it in Rb Midrange (no 1 drops) for weeks. Besides the arguments already laid I like that it fills out the curve. He´s just fine anywhere T2-4 and is neat ca on Chandra´s Phoenix T4. Which almost always happens if they didn´t react to the T3 attack of Phoenix plus the 2 drop. T5 I just want SBD, not the I´m-so-brittle-Jester with Herald on top only resulting in negative ca.

[Jedi_Knight]

Just lost a tight match with Burn in R1 of the daily... won G1, he won G2 (double Satyrs prevented me from racing even though I had otherwise nut draw - all four Jesters) and I lost G3 by one Skullcrack. Should have waited few more turns. Crushed Bw devo R2 so not in a bad mood.

I switched pack rats back to the drawer, still not decided between Ash Zealot, Young Pyromancer or Spiteful Returned. The first one helps against aggro, the second one is just good overall and the third one soothes the control matchup. But since our weakest matchup currently is aggro and at least for me Burn, I am gonna go with that trusty Zealot.

I am pretty sure I'll be taking the following list to the PTQ:

[deck]Return of the Jedi RB[/deck]

As you can see, that's 66 cards. The last nine is what I need to figure out. Currently going with +1 Mutavault, +1 Mountain +3 Ash Zealot, +1 Shock main and +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Whip of Erebos (per MDU's suggestion, although it is rather slow) side. Any comments are welcome, since I really wanna do well after spending so much time online and getting much better over the last year.

[Jedi_Knight]

And another match lost to burn... had to mull to 5, send two dragons down which was a mistake since I drew the Whip. Oh well.

[poppa_f]

Yeah I find the burn matchup tricky. I think the key could actually be running Rakdos Returns (if you are running at least 24 lands). If you have 2 Rakdos Returns post-board then you should be able to outrace them if you can returns them on turn 5 for 3

[Purp]

Play Whip... Win the burn matchup.

[Jedi_Knight]

Gonna try the Return for few 8man, then will get back to the Whip if it does not work. Definitely upping the count to 2 - both cards works against control too so it's not bad in either case. Will cut one Anger for it.

[magicdownunder]

Where I current sit:

[deck]MDU Rakdos Aggro[/deck]

After watching my own videos, I've decided I like the variant with Shocks and Rakdos Cacklers best - I've also cut down one dragon because I rather dislike seeing them in my opening hand (it encourages odd "scry" choices during the land hunt).

I've also put one Whip of Erebos MD
because when I had it in my SB I notice during my thoerycrafting I just brought it in against everything anyways.... with Whip MD Vault seemed more attractive so I toss two back in the build (yes I know its greedy) I kinda agree with 4x Skullcrack vs Bx Devotion is alittle shaky but I have no idea what else to include thus I left my 15th SB as unknown.

I may run 3x Devour Flesh again (over 2x Mortars and 1x unknown) since they're great vs Burn, Hexproof, weenies and Bx or I can toss one SBD in the SB for Control but many control players are shifting back into UWB so I'm not sure... or just run the 4th Skullcrack or 1x Crypt Incursion for Dregde and Hyper Aggro so many choices

Anyhow here are some videos (please note these are OLD videos so my choices may be odd, if they are please give me a shout).

[deck=MDU's Young Radko]Lands 23
6 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple Of Malice
2 Rakdos
Guildgate
1 Mutavault

Creatures 21
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
3 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall

Sideboard 15
1 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
4 Skullcrack[/deck]

This is my greedy as hell 23 lands version which is the best one if your luck run high (missing land drops and dying are common).

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6808554)
Standard Elimination R1 Rakdos Aggro vs Gr Monster Event 6808554
Standard Elimination R2 Rakdos Aggro vs Esper Aggro Event 6808554
Standard Elimination R3 Split

[RaidaTheBlade]

I'm really liking the look of that list... I personally would put the dragon back in, cause I run up against a lot of u/w/x (bant seems popular where I am).
And even meta aside, having those big late-game hasters is so important.
I'd proly drop a single downfall for it. Not the best cut, but yeah.


All that aside, I wanna look at that last sideboard slot.
My sideboard right now is exactly the same as yours, with that slot being a third mortars, to help vs aggro and to remove baron.
Given you've gone down a dragon which makes us a bit weaker vs that card (cause it does trade), that might be a good idea.

Another option I thought of would be using it to put a second whip into the 75. Burn is on the up-and-up, and it pretty much gives free wins vs them and most flavors of aggro. Doing this would make me want the 3rd dragon even more though.

Those are my thoughts anyway

[magicdownunder]

@RaidaTheBlade:

I never liked 3x Mizzium Mortars I barely enjoy 2x (I actually think Mizzium Mortars is the worst card in my 15 SB slot since it ONLY hit BBV which two burns or BBZ can do the same), in regards to Whip I think 1x is the correct number (except against Burn) you really need to control the board state (or not be in the brink of death) before you can cast Whip of Erebos so I think it does need really special timing thus not being a card you always want to see (you may notice that all the GP Esper midrange list only run 1x Whip as well).

Having only one is good because "Whip of Erebos is never late nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to".

SBD is really powerful so we always want to see at least 1 through the course of the match thus 3x is the correct number, its just that running 6x 4cc and 3x
5cc really hurts the curve - when your in force land hunt mode it makes things even worst when you also need to hold removal. I personally think 3x Dragon is better with 19 creatures and only 3x 1-drop or 3x random 2-drop so you can maintain our removal wall to say alive.

In regards to RR:

[deck]Greedy Deck.Com[/deck]

We could just cut the Shock and squeeze everything in, we'll suffer alittle vs Small Aggro since they can just overwhelm us but Rakdos Cackler is just as good shock vs small aggro so it shouldn't matter too much.

Not sure I'
ll be willing to run it though since I like Shock....

[Jedi_Knight]

One Whip... ok. That argument is convincing. I am just terrified of the burn now. It fells like flipping a coin: whoever gets the better draw wins. We race, they race, it feels like a fucking demolition derby.

Will go back to two Angers since I anticipate a lot of Ux devo. Ash Zealot so far has proven worthy, sticking to that. RR I dont't think I want... not really sure there though. That leaves few slots to tinker with... I am probably gonna go up to 4 LBZ in my 75. Still deciding whether I want or don't want the second Vault. And trying to figure out whether I want a Devour Flesh or not... had a game where it saved my sorry ass. It's pretty worthless against GR, but gives you options against the aggresive decks, which is what I like in a card.

And I agree about the dragon: 3 is the right number here. We don't have lifegain like we had in Rw so we can't prolong the game on 4CC. Too
many high CMC drops gonna ruin your day.

As for Mortars, few pages back when I returned I mentioned it and I still feel that way: it is the weakest of our cards. By itself it kills only the mentioned Baron, because any other creature at 4 toughness currently in use dies to our black removal too. The main problem is that we want it against Ux as a sort of sweeper and another removal and against BW as an answer to the baron. The only other card I can think of deals with the Baron and/or Obzedat is Fated Conflagration, but it's mana cost prevents us from reliably casting it. Or [card]Chandra's Outrage[/card], but... I am thinking 1/1 split Mortars/Devour Flesh.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Heh, is it bad that the 75 I currently have sleeved up is 72/75 the same as mdu's 'greedy deck'? It's just my speed of greedy.

The 3 cards are the whip and the rr's. The whip argument convinced me, so I am gonna make that change, but I think keeping shocks over rr might be a better idea, though I do find the idea interesting.

Though, if you want to keep removal vs small aggro, but still be greedy, then 2x searing blood might be entertaining

[magicdownunder]

@Jedi_Knight:

So you went with something like:

[deck=MDU's RB with Ash]Lands 24
8 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Mutavault

Creatures 19
3 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
3 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall

Artifact / Enchantment 01
1 Whip of Erebos

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
3 Skullcrack
1 Devour Flesh[/deck]

Def. seems better vs Aggro without ruining the B or Control MU - the Devour Flesh on our own cards is a beaut vs Burn quite bad vs Gr I'll admit but it it does a number vs weenies and it isn't horrible vs Blue.

@RaidaTheBlade: nothing wrong with being greedy, it just
make it had to complain when you lose due to lack of lands and/or colors.

[hoeiberg]

So, going to FNM tonight. Unknown meta (haven't been there for ages), what should i bring: Cacklers, Satyrs or Zealots?

[magicdownunder]

So, going to FNM tonight. Unknown meta (haven't been there for ages), what should i bring: Cacklers, Satyrs or Zealots?

I don't think any of us have come to an agreement yet

Jedi_Knight has the core down (though I'm on the Vexing Devil plan over LBZ so I have slightly less slots open in my SB), if the meta is unknown I'll go with either Cacklers or Zealots (you don't want to face down red with Satyr) the issue is which would you pick between them.

Ash

Cons:
RR on turn 2 is greedy, so your forced to reduce the vault count
Compete with Jester Count

Pros:
Has haste, isn't black (relevant G2-3 vs Bx)
Has First Strike making it a wall vs small
aggro and an excellent card to use with burn or a Witch

Cackler

Cons:
Doesn't have haste (witch helps)
Can't block (unless you make it a 1/1)
Is Black (dies to DB G2-3 vs Bx)
Dead card after T3

Pros:
Is BR making it very hard to kill for Bx players (g1, also soaks up DB so your witch or jester can swing in)
Competes with no other T1 play beside Shock, Cackler into jester T1-T2 is really powerful
is either RB or cast and is only 1cc
Plays well with Witch

Both are good, you pick...

[Jedi_Knight]

What MDU said. Cackler helps against Bx/control, Zealot against aggro.

You got it spot on MDU, the only changes in my list are -2 Vexing Phoenix, +2 LBZ and -1 HDF +1 land main. For SB that gives 1 slot, which I currently have Anger of the Gods in. Now I need to figure out SB plan. Was thinking something along these lines:

Bx devo
-2 Shock, -2 Magma Jet, -2 LBZ (could be -2 Shock, -2 LBZ, -1 Dragon, -1 land)
+3 Skullcrack, +3 Dark Betrayal

BW Midrange (this one i has problemz with SBding)
-2 Shock, -1 Whip, -4 Magma Jet, -1 Dragon, -1 Guildgate/Vault
+2 Mortars, +1 Devour Flesh, +2 LBZ, +3 Dark Betrayal

Ux devo
-4 Spike Jester, -2 LBZ/Zealot (kinda leaning towards removing zealot, since she is effectively dead once Tidebinder comes in)
+1 Anger, +2 Mortars, +3 Doom Blade

GRx
-4 Spike Jester, -3 Zealot
+3 Dom Blade, +2 LBZ, +2 Mortars (not sure about bruinging mortars here)
n
UWx
-??? never know what what I don't wan't
+2 LBZ, +1 Mortars (not sure about mortars here), +3 Skullcrack

RDW of any iteration
-4 Spike Jester, -1 Dragon, -1 Exava, -1 land, -2 ???
+ 1 Anger(wont bring that against RW devo), +1 Devour, +2 Mortars, +3 Doom Blade, +2 LBZ (that only against RW devo)

Burn
-3 Dreadbore, -2 HDF, -1 Dragon/Exava (not sure if that trade is worth bringing LBZ in, prolly not)
+3 Skullcrack, +2 LBZ, +1 Devou Flesh

It's a mess.

[magicdownunder]

I'll post my plan with this (since it matches yours the closest (I except lots of control and Bx during MOCS1 so I'll run the 1-drop version)):

[deck=MDU's RB with Ash]Lands 24
8 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Mutavault

Creatures 19
3 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
3 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall

Artifact / Enchantment 01
1 Whip of Erebos

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
3 Skullcrack
1 Devour Flesh[/deck]

Bx devo
-2 Shock, -2 Magma Jet, -2 Vexing Phoenix (or 1x Whip and 1x Magma Jet, need to test Whip more - though having a creature every turn during top-deck mode sounds good...)
+3 Skullcrack, +3 Dark Betrayal

(With your list I'll cut 1 land, 1 dragon, 2
LBZ and 2 Shock)

BW Midrange
-1 Whip of Erebos -2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix -2 Shock -4 Magma Jet (if he isn't running DD, it maybe better to cut 3 Dreadbore because it does nothing)
+2 Mizzium Mortars +3 Lifebane Zombie +3 Dark Betrayal +1 Devour Flesh

(I agree with your plan, running your list - though same as above if you don't see the DD cut the Dreadbores)

Ux devo
-4 Spike Jester, -3 Ash Zealot, -2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
+2 Mizzium Mortars, +3 Lifebane Zombie, +3 Doom Blade and +1 Devour Flesh

(LBZ is a bomb in this MU, cut witches, Ash and Jester first because they're going good if your winning - Devour Flesh is only bad if MoW is in play, but usually if MoW is in play your going to lose)

GRx + Rx Devotion
-4 Spike Jester, -3 Zealot, 1 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
+3 Doom Blade, +3 LBZ, +2 Mortars

(Mortar is good here (not great) it kills almost everything, if you want extra removals or sweepers cut more witches)

UWx
-1 Shock, -3 Dreadbore, -2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (can
be -1 Whip over -1 shock, I need more testing)
+3 LBZ and 3 Skullcrack

(you don't want to control the control deck so cut the Dreadbores)

Burn
-3 Dreadbore, -3 HDF, -1 Dragon
+3 Skullcrack, +3 Doom Blade, +1 Devour Flesh

LBZ is HORRIBLE in this MU, I'll recommend you keep at least 3 terrors since Mr Reck is a card.

[hoeiberg]

Both are good, you pick...

Thanks for the breakdown, I'm gonna run with Zealot (Cackler and I are not the best of friends at the moment and i like being greedy )

Also I'll add the whip if i can find one

[Jedi_Knight]

Thanks a lot for the comments. The list just works - not as explosive as Burn, but works. Scored 3-1 (beat BW mid R1, Bx devo R2, Esper control R4 and lost to Esper mid R3) in my last training DE even though it should have been 4-0. I made terrible mistakes during Esper Midrange match R3 including forgetting a land drop or dropping a phoenix and THEN killing Sovereign... Really happy with what've got.

Gonna take a break from 8men now, I've grinded 24 QP already, dailies will suffice more than enough. My only regret is that I won't be able to make this Saturday's finals due to the PTQ, but I sure as heck know nothing about limited now.

[nme]

Not sure if anyone is still working on the "Pyro Seer" list anymore but I've been running it on modo for a couple weeks and I've been liking it. My list pretty much evolved into Valdarith's last list with the exception of 4 Young Pyros over Thrill-Kills, so I won't bother reposting it. I played around with both and I'm still not sure which one I like more. Thrill-Kill is probably better overall, but I haven't been in any games yet where the outcome would have been different if I wasn't running YP. I also like Herald of Torment, but I tried out Mogis's Marauders and it won me games that Herald most likely wouldn't have, so I'm convinced that card is staying in my list.

Right now I'm trying to figure out my sideboard. I'm considering running 2x Erebos, God of the Dead for Mono B and Esper control. The card draw engine isn't the greatest, but if I can't find any Pain Seers or have trouble keeping
them on board then Erebos would be a decent option. The opponents can't gain life clause is nice against both matchups as well. I went 1-2 against Esper and I had a good chance to win the first game and did my best not to overextend, but he chain 4 supreme verdicts and I couldn't catch up past that point. I had him in single digits and out came the Elixir and Sphinx's and it was gg. 2nd game I curved out really well and ended before he could stabilize. 3rd game I mulled to 5 and couldn't keep anything on board. The draw engine from Erebos might have helped in that game. There's always the possibility that it could get detention sphere'd, but it does add a couple cards that they would have to have answers for. I'm also considering keeping a few duress for extra hand disruption because it's helped in other games against control. If I do run Erebos, it would make sense to run Thrill-Kills over YP so I have a better shot at activating him.

I could always just run skullcrack, but it feels like I can'
t rely on it. I either never draw it when I need it, or I crack once and they follow up with another lifegain the next turn.

[Tyrael]

Having Skullcrack forces UWx control players to keep mana open for counters, which is HUGE especially when they only have a Syncopate in hand. Mind games dude . You don't even need to have it in your hand, simply the possibility of you having it will scare the hell out of them. This also gives you the time to draw more threats, it's a win-win .

Hence why I prefer it over Erebos, even though we could probably keep him active quite easily in the Rakdos Seer lists.

[LaZerBurn]

@MDU - LBZ comes in for 4 out of 6 match ups. Is it worth running him in the MD?

[Tyrael]

Tonight, someone called me an a-hole for running it main (took his Blood Baron twice in a row in G1 hue)

So do itttt

[magicdownunder]

Def. worth running MD - it make your Bx MU a tad softer and its weak to Reaper but beside that its fantastic (If I wasn't scared of Jund Monsters (though LBZ is good vs Jund Monsters as well ), I'll run LBZ as well to free up some room in my SB).

[RaidaTheBlade]

Just got back from fnm, went 4-1, only loss being to a blitz monored, and that was a 1-2 with the 2 games I loss being topdeck battles where I found land and he didn't. And one I facerolled cause of the whip.

Full writeup in the morning, but I'm happy with it.

[magicdownunder]

It really shouldn't be a bad MU though its kinda like Rw Devotion vs Small Aggro, they can't get past our creatures so we slowly overpower them.

That said 2x Anger of Gods or Drown in Sorrow is looking rather snazzy in the SB, you can bring it in against Small Aggro, Esper Humans and Ux Devotion (three MUs) and its decent vs hexproof.

So I propose:

[deck=MDU's RB out of name ideas]Lands 24
8 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Mutavault

Creatures 19
3 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
3 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall

Artifact / Enchantment 01
1 Whip of Erebos

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Dark Betrayal
3
Doom Blade
3 Skullcrack
2 Anger of Gods[/deck]

SB Plan

---

Wx
In: 2 Anger of God, 3 Doom Blade, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Lifebane Zombie
Out: 4 Spike Jester, 3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch, 1 Stormbreath Dragon, 1 Chandra's Phoenix

Rx (not devotion)
In: 2 Anger of God, 3 Doom Blade, 2 Mizzium Mortars
Out: 4 Spike Jester, 2 Lifebane Zombie, 1 Stormbreath Dragon

Grx and Rx Devotion
In: 3 Doom Blade, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Lifebane Zombie
Out: 4 Spike Jester, 3 Ash Zealot

Ux Devotion
In: 2 Anger of God, 3 Doom Blade, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Lifebane Zombie
Out: 4 Spike Jester, 2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch, 3 Ash Zealot

Hexproof
In: 2 Anger of God, 2 Lifebane Zombie, 3 Skullcrack
Out: 3 Dreadbore, 3 Hero's Downfall, 1 Whip of Erebos

Bx Devotion
In: 3 Skullcrack, 3 Dark Betrayal
Out: 2 Lifebane Zombie, 2 Shock, 1 Stormbreath Dragon, 1 Magma Jet

BW Control
In: 3 Dark Betrayal, 1 Lifebane Zombie, 2 Mizzium Mortars
Out: 2 Shock, 4 Magma Jet (If you don'
t see DD cut the DreadBores)

UWx Control
In: 2 Lifebane Zombie, 3 Skullcrack
Out: 3 Dreadbore, 2 Shock

Dread
In: 2 Lifebane Zombie, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 1 Doom Blade
Out: 3 Ash Zealot, 2 Shock

I like have extra room via running LBZ MD, but I can't decide between Anger or Devour Flesh both are great (not too happy about Reaper crushing my dreams vs Jund Monster either though 7 fliers "should" be enough).

[RaidaTheBlade]

Again, it just came down to topdecks. If either game I had drawn anything at all but land in the last 3 or so turns, I'd have won instead. The deck was interesting cause it was a mix of blitz aggro and red devo. It top 8'd the atlanta open (which honestly was a metagame fluke. The deck is nice, but not amazing, and the player isn't terrible, but he isn't that good either)

I like cackler personally, as a good early play that doesn't suffer much from some of the mana oddness that can happen, but I don't think he's 100% needed either.

My biggest issue with that decklist up there is the mana. It runs the more redbased mana, but has lbz main instead of phoenix, which to me would say that the more 50/50 color split would be better...

What I'd run, jumping off that:
[deck]Rakdos Aggro-Control[/deck]

The differences/explanations are:
-1 Mountain, +1 Mutavault: Probably not the BEST idea ever, but I am greedy, and mutavault helped me out a lot today.

-2 Lifebane Zombie, +2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix: I really like Lifebane Zombie, but running him along with ash zealot and chandra's phoenix with an 8/5 mountain swamp split just eels like it'd be a bit much. I also like the vexing phoenix, because it does some pretty good work. Only times it's been really bad was g1 vs mono-black, and against mono-u, who domesticated it. (Would have happened to the zombie too).

-2 Anger, +1 LBZ, +1 Whip (in the board): By moving lbz out of
the main, I want three in the side. Coming out of the side, it pulled a lot of shenanigans today. But removing the angers weakens us vs the aggro decks. By putting a second whip into the side, we can have 2 post-board, which doubles our chances of drawing it. And that card is pretty much a free win vs aggro. I like having two, and with as much scry as we have from the temple and jets, avoiding 2 is fairly easy.


I would also be mostly okay with dropping a swamp and a mountain for 2 extra guildgates, since we no longer have 1-drop creatures, only 2x shock.
It might also be able to have lbz main, and run a different 2-drop besides zealot. Shred-freak is okay, and spiteful it interesting. Chainwalker is also entertaining with exava.

Aso, all that said, still not sure I want to drop cackler, but while he's been okay, he's not been insane. Most of the time I'd be fine with another two-drop.



Edit: Forgot to mention it, but a few times it did feel like I had too much removal and not enough
threats. It might worth dropping the shocks for +1 Zealot, +1 FW Phoenix, and then doing the mana swap for 4 total guildgates. Dunno, shock is fun.