[Primer] Boros Burn

[agrevall]

Can you post the list? Merci.

[deck]Brad Nelson RW Burn[/deck]

Needs more main deck Chains, and I'm still not sold on Oracle as a card but hey.

[Crims0n]

thats look groadie. zealots are questionable and why are you maining 4 mutavaults with 4 reckoner in the side

[agrevall]

thats look groadie. zealots are questionable and why are you maining 4 mutavaults with 4 reckoner in the side

It's Brad's deck from SCG, not mine.

[Crims0n]

I am aware. Just making observation, wasn't directed at you sorry if it seemed like it.

[agrevall]

No worries! I agree completely, the sideboard as a whole looks like it could use some work. I would say the Zealots are for early pressure in the control matchup but I'd prefer Cacklers here as a 1 drop instead I think.

[zemanjaski]

Overall I like the direction the deck moved in. Running only haste creatures substantially improves the control matchup. Ash Zealot is just a good magic card in every matchup (when supported by that much burn).

Things I like:
- card quality
- mana base quality
- low curve
- 4 mutavaults

So the deck is ultra consistent.

The SB is really bad, but that's fine, that can use work. I like where this deck is at overall.

[Pedros]

Overall I like the direction the deck moved in. Running only haste creatures substantially improves the control matchup. Ash Zealot is just a good magic card in every matchup (when supported by that much burn).

Things I like:
- card quality
- mana base quality
- low curve
- 4 mutavaults

So the deck is ultra consistent.

The SB is really bad, but that's fine, that can use work. I like where this deck is at overall.

This deck is older version of the one he played in SCG Open. Videos are recorded long time before posted, so I would look after deck he played in Open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B17MFmK8owg

[zemanjaski]

It's not clear to me that his newer version is actually better.

[Pedros]

How good is burn vs mono black control? Looks good as we make their removal bad right?

What list would you run Zem?

[zemanjaski]

[deck]Boros Burn v2.1[/deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Terrors
2 Chained to the Rocks

Burn
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

9 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Toil // Trouble
+1 card
[/deck]

[Pedros]

What about Satyr Nix-Smith from SB? A lot of decks should limit their number on removal spells, and it might be a blowout as it is army making machine?

[DriftingLifted]

I'm in agreement about the main board looking quite decent. Brad mentions the sideboard being experimental, but yeah Oracle seems really janky here. It'd be cool if every time you cast him you happen to be able to pull off a Warleader's (or the dream of a free Fated Conflagration? ) but I'm not at all sold on that card.

Thinking of cutting a shock for another Chain mainboard, I just find it such a useful card in nearly any matchup, it's good in the match ups where Shock might be relevant and the meta game locally and at a lot of events I expect will be G/R, Mono U and Mono B. In all those cases I'd rather have a single more Chains, but I guess it just does less in the U/W matchup?

[zenbitz]

I am going to try the 2.1 list... I have been having trouble with RG decks so I started playing (bleah) Mortars. I hate them but ... I also would be worried about running on 2 chained main. Hmmm.... I don't have 4 Firedrinkers... should I use some combination of more toil/trouble or spark trooper instead?

[Googims]

in your situation, the next best 1 drops would be cacklers if you don't have any firedrinkers

[zenbitz]

I guess we run 1 drops vs. MBD and UW for early pressure.... but does this turn their removal on? Or does it keep them honest for game 2/3. For some reason I was running wear // tear SB as well. Probably I got owned by Bow?

[agrevall]

Interestingly, for those that have SCG Premium, Brad has just put up an article saying that the RW Burn deck he played was the worst deck he's played in Standard for 4 years! Mostly he's referencing it's lack of ability to recover when you're behind, with no cards like Stormbreath to finish.

[Deht]

Interestingly, for those that have SCG Premium, Brad has just put up an article saying that the RW Burn deck he played was the worst deck he's played in Standard for 4 years! Mostly he's referencing it's lack of ability to recover when you're behind, with no cards like Stormbreath to finish.

Hmm... If it was so bad, why was he hyping it and why did he play it?

[zenbitz]

Regardless, I think comebacks might be a weakness for this deck. But I don't like solutions (at least Game 1) that turn back on removal. I guess haste is mandatory... Maybe a singleton spark trooper main? Have to cut something though... ashley or shock or jet (depending on meta). I dunno. I mostly have trouble with big fat green guys closing the deal before I top deck the last burn spell.

[zenbitz]

just FYI I have been testing V2.1 above with some modifications:
-4 mutavault
-2 Boros Guildgate
+1 moutain
+4 temple of silence
+2 chained

SB:
-4 Firedrinkers
+3 spark trooper
-1 chained to the rocks
+1 wear//tear
+1 chandra

I am letting my kid use the mutavaults... so going to have to suck it up there. I did order firedrinkers.... and I think they will make all the difference v. UWx control (obviously more mutavault is better, too).
wear//tear is useless and chandra is just a one-for-one. I guess she's good vs. Green? With firedancers the aggro match up is so good she is not needed.

I am a little worried that running 12 creatures vs. Bx control just destroys our VCA. And with dancers we have 16 now... they are bad vs. true control but not worthless against Black.

So against MBD we run:
-4 searing blood
+2 assemble
+4 firedrinker
-2 shock?
or -2 ashley.

[zemanjaski]

I've got an article, a video and a podcast all on Boros Burn being released over on CFB in the next few days

[zemanjaski]

Interestingly, for those that have SCG Premium, Brad has just put up an article saying that the RW Burn deck he played was the worst deck he's played in Standard for 4 years! Mostly he's referencing it's lack of ability to recover when you're behind, with no cards like Stormbreath to finish.

Hmm... If it was so bad, why was he hyping it and why did he play it?

That was a painfully dumb article.

[Deht]

I've got an article, a video and a podcast all on Boros Burn being released over on CFB in the next few days

I look forward to reading the article / watching the video

[zemanjaski]

But not listening to the podcast?

[Deht]

But not listening to the podcast?

Hahaha --- I'll give that a listen too! I've never checked out a mtg podcast

[zemanjaski]

Boom!

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... d-rw-aggro

[Crims0n]

[deck]9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault
1 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence

3 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
4 Searing Blood
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr


SB: 4 Toil // Trouble
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster
SB: 2 Revoke Existence
SB: 4 Chained to the Rocks
SB: 1 Skullcrack
SB: 3 Boros Reckoner
[/deck]

My list for FNM/gameday this week. Been testing pretty good.

[agrevall]

Boom!

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... d-rw-aggro

Awesome set of videos! Realised your line of play against Pack Rat (i.e. attacking into them and only killing them later on) is far better than mine - I would have always snap burnt out the rat turn 2 in that situation previously. Always great to hear the reasoning behind your choices.

[zemanjaski]

I don't think my line is 100% guaranteed better, but I like giving my opponent to play incorrectly and luckily, he did.

[DriftingLifted]

Awesome videos Z, the feedback on reddit and CFB seems all quite positive; blowing people's minds with the mindful red deck play . I find it useful when I'm watching to pause and consider my own line of play, then watch with the sound off to figure out your line of play, then to finally listen to your logic. Really like the depth and detail you put in. Looking forward to more of your CFB content and your commentary improving despite it already being so helpful.

[zenbitz]

What I really like about this deck is that it forces me to become a better magic player. But math is hard!

I kinda want to run Peak Eruption... but seems suicidal if you don't have a good grasp of the meta at LGS (which I don't).

Z - if you explain this in the video ignore me, I will watch it when I get home from work - but can you explain the spark troopers over assemble the legion??

[Elricity]

GR Monsters

Also, Assemble is no longer that great against mono B which was the main selling point of the card.

[zenbitz]

GR Monsters

Also, Assemble is no longer that great against mono B which was the main selling point of the card.

because of bile blight and/or drown in sorrows or other meta-meta reasons?

[zemanjaski]

@ DL thanks man

Re: Spark Trooper vs Assemble the Legion

Spark Trooper helps in my worst matchup whereas MBC is already really good; I don't think you need much if anything for that matchup.

[Mr. Metronome]

Is your list from the video the most up to date or do you prefer Firedancers in the side as per the list in this thread?

[Elricity]

GR Monsters

Also, Assemble is no longer that great against mono B which was the main selling point of the card.

because of bile blight and/or drown in sorrows or other meta-meta reasons?

Basically. Drown isn't that bad because it's not as prevalent since the meta shifted in response to it. Bile blight is still great main deck material which makes it always there.

Same reason we all had to jump ship from Young Pyromancer. While the individual cards are still "good", the meta usually is no longer as kind to grindy red weenie decks so it's better to go in
another direction. If the meta shifts monsterous enough that bile blight is bad, then it can slip back in on occassion. No idea if that's Z's opinion, though.

[Deht]

Cool videos, zemanjaski

[zenbitz]

I just want to say that this is my favoritest thread evah of all the internetz. Thanks to all who contributed over the last year. When I 0-4 tomorrow night because I can't think fast enough, I will curse your names, but until then...

[Elricity]

Don't think fast. Calmly analyze your plays and do your math properly. This is not a turn guys sideways deck. You can tilt someone by going into machine gun mode but it's not worth it if you make misplays. See the amount of time Z took in these videos to discuss his play options and do that internally.

[zemanjaski]

Is your list from the video the most up to date or do you prefer Firedancers in the side as per the list in this thread?

I like my Firedancers in the main. List is almost current, still considering some stuff in the last few sideboard slots (Toil and Trouble).

[zemanjaski]

How does Bile Blight drastically affect Assemble the Legion? Not to say that Assemble is good for this deck, but the plays I can think of where Bile Blight loses you a game despite having an active Assemble are incredibly specific.

+1

I don't think Assemble the Legion is bad, just unnecessary.