Primer: R/w/x Aggro

[Crims0n]

Okay how do you beat RG monsters? I've struggled all week.

[magicdownunder]

Okay how do you beat RG monsters? I've struggled all week.

What list are you running? Rg is a bad MU so you'll need practice to beat them (my personal record against them is really good, however if you follow my evolution from the PyroWhite thread you would have notice that at once stage I felt that gx was worst then Ux).

Its the little things which will make or break the MU, like not killing manadorks, leaving blockers taking damage and so on.

[Crims0n]

I'm running your exact list from the previous page. It's been really good so far except the G/R has been tricky.

[Valdarith]

I understand the context fine. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

[LP, of the Fires]

Psully's deck is an example of premium deckbuilding. He has a plan, something he's trying to beat, and something he doesn't care about losing to. Like, can his deck EVER beat UW game 1? Not really. But the sideboard addresses that, and he's very well set up mainboard vs. everything else with 3 assembles in the board to trump Mono-black.

Master Red mage is master.

It's also very similar to past decks from MDU which is another reason why I'm a fan of it and will take MDU's word over most peoples.

[Purp]

Going to give Psullys list a try for a couple hours.

[magicdownunder]

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6697645)
Standard Elimination R1 Dega Burn vs Rw Devotion Event 6697645
Standard Elimination R2 Dega Burn vs Bx Devotion Event 6697645
Standard Elimination R3 Dega Burn vs UB Control Event 6697645

Ok those are my videos for the week, next week will just mainly be Modern videos until BnG hits MODO (I blames you guys for making me like BnG so much that post-BnG doesn't seem fun anymore).

[Valdarith]

Thinking more about PSully's deck. I wonder how substituting Young Pyromancer in for Boros Reckoner would affect things? By running Pyromancer you get to run Mutavaults, and you have a creature that generates value against mono black devotion that's also quite useful in the mono blue matchup. I can't think of a matchup that suffers from having Young Pyromancer except for maybe Gr monsters, but maindeck Chained to the Rocks, Mizzium Mortars, and Warleader's Helix ought to be more than enough hedge for them, right?

Upon further analysis I do respect his gameplan with the deck. He's basically conceeding against UW game one but has a VERY strong sideboard against them for games two and three. My personality just doesn't like not being able to beat a certain deck in game one (something I have to get over as I continue to evolve in Magic).

[Googims]

hey mdu, would the only changes you'd make to the dega burn draft#2 be malice temples?
I'm actually really interested in playing this, will probably stick to playing dega this time around

[magicdownunder]

hey mdu, would the only changes you'd make to the dega burn draft#2 be malice temples?
I'm actually really interested in playing this, will probably stick to playing dega this time around

The build is really flexible since Rwb has allot to offer in standard, I feel like we really need brainstorming session to really get it kicking so no, I doubt Malice will be enough - though at this stage its the only change I'll make.

I'll welcome any back-and-forth with Dega since its a blast to play (I won't be able to come up with any ideas right now without some new inspirations since I'm just farming $$ in Modern - I entered two events so far and 3-0 both.)

[montu]

I went 5-0 tonight at FNM, winning 2-0 every match. It was almost too easy.

Here's what I played - I decided to begin with PSully's build, and modify it to my tastes - I added two Satyr Firedancers (removing a Boros Reckoner and a [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]), and I swapped in two Mutavaults for two Mountains.

[deck=PSully R/W Burn - Montu's Tweaks]
Creatures (12)
2 Satyr Firedancer
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (22)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
3 Warleader's
Helix
4 Mizzium Mortars

Lands (24)
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil
[/deck]

My match-ups were:

• American Aggro (rogue brew)
• B Aggro
• MonuU Devo
• MonoB Devo
• R/G Monsters

I have to say, I really liked the Satyr Firedancer, and plan on putting 2 more in along with a 4th Warleader's Helix (swapping out the Reconers).

This was the first time I ran Temple of Silence. I found it very helpful.

[Googims]

hey mdu, would the only changes you'd make to the dega burn draft#2 be malice temples?
I'm actually really interested in playing this, will probably stick to playing dega this time around

The build is really flexible since Rwb has allot to offer in standard, I feel like we really need brainstorming session to really get it kicking so no, I doubt Malice will be enough - though at this stage its the only change I'll make.

I'll welcome any back-and-forth with Dega since its a blast to play (I won'
t be able to come up with any ideas right now without some new inspirations since I'm just farming $$ in Modern - I entered two events so far and 3-0 both.)

I've been thinking of maybe adding an elspeth? with 13 white sources I think it's enough to support an elspeth, not sure what to cut though.. maybe a helix/sbd ?

[enmitee]

I went 5-0 tonight at FNM, winning 2-0 every match. It was almost too easy.

Here's what I played - I decided to begin with PSully's build, and modify it to my tastes - I added two Satyr Firedancers (removing a Boros Reckoner and a [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]), and I swapped in two Mutavaults for two Mountains.

[deck=PSully R/W Burn - Montu's Tweaks]
Creatures (12)
2 Satyr Firedancer
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

nPlaneswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (22)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Mizzium Mortars

Lands (24)
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil
[/deck]

My match-ups were:

• American Aggro (rogue brew)
• B Aggro
• MonuU Devo
• MonoB Devo
• R/G Monsters

I have to say, I really liked the Satyr Firedancer, and plan on putting 2 more in along with a 4th Warleader's Helix (swapping out the Reconers).

This was the first time I ran Temple of Silence. I found it very helpful.

Good to hear you had success! What were the match ups like? Do you
mind typing up a short report?:) How was your match up against G/R I feel that is our most tricky match up. GJ!

[magicdownunder]

@montu:

Regards to the MD, I like the inclusion of Dancer and Vaults, I would recommend cutting 2 Mortars for 1x Warleader's Helix and either another shock or Dancer.

The changes I would suggest for the SB would be -3x Assembles (its horrible now) for 1x Vaults, 1x SBD and 1x Mortars

@Googims:

Elspeth, would improve the Gx and Bx MU so its a fine suggestion

[Googims]

@Googims:

Elspeth, would improve the Gx and Bx MU so its a fine suggestion

I also might add a single obzedat, -1 mountain +1 godless shrine, might try fitting in 1-2 RRs.
probably drop the shocks to 2, helix's to 2/3
rework the sideboard for my lgs and play the shit out of this deck.

[magicdownunder]

If you manage to get a obzedat burn build working (that would be a hard feat in regard to the mana) I'll be VERY impressed.

[montu]

I went 5-0 tonight at FNM, winning 2-0 every match. It was almost too easy.

Here's what I played - I decided to begin with PSully's build, and modify it to my tastes - I added two Satyr Firedancers (removing a Boros Reckoner and a [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]), and I swapped in two Mutavaults for two Mountains.

[deck=PSully R/W Burn - Montu's Tweaks]
Creatures (12)
2 Satyr Firedancer
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

nPlaneswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (22)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Mizzium Mortars

Lands (24)
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil
[/deck]

My match-ups were:

• American Aggro (rogue brew)
• B Aggro
• MonuU Devo
• MonoB Devo
• R/G Monsters

I have to say, I really liked the Satyr Firedancer, and plan on putting 2 more in along with a 4th Warleader's Helix (swapping out the Reconers).

This was the first time I ran Temple of Silence. I found it very helpful.

Here's my write-up. If you read anything read M5, G3 (a 3rd game we
played for fun, where I lost due to a terrible surprise, after I thought I played brilliantly!)

M1 - RWB Aggro

G1, G2 - Nothing much to say here. Both games, I was able to control the board until I got SBD out.

M2 - B Aggro

G1, G2 - Again, pretty straight forward. Used removal as necessary to control the board, and with as much burn to the face as possible. He got a Whip in play G1, which made it tougher to win straight up. I decided against boarding in Scullcrack G2, and just focused taking his creatures off the board until I could safely play SBD. I was also able to sneak in some damage with a Mutavault.

M3 - MonoU Devo

G1 - I was able to keep his devotion low, so when he finally did play Master of Waves, it was all by its lonesome self. Control, then Burn and SBD wad the winning play. Having 4 Chained MB was key.

G2 - I boarded out 3 Reckoners and put in 3 Boros Charm. In this game, Firedancer really shined.
He was able to get early devotion and a Master of Waves for 5, but I was able to ping them off with Firedancer. With 2 Phoenix, a SBD, and burn coming there was too much pressure and I out-raced him to 20.

M4 - MonoB Devo

G1 - We both mulled to 6 and had a slow start, each missing a land drop on turn 3. That hurt him worse than me. He Duresed and then Thoughseized me, but my hand was chock full of threats, and I was able to put pressure on casting 2 Warleader's Helixs in 2 turns, one to him, and one to his Nightveil Spector. He was able to play Gary twice, both to an empty board. (lol)

G2 - I boarded in 3 Assemble, 3 Boros Charm, and 4 Skullcrack, taking out 3 Reconers, 3 Shocks, and 4 Magma Jets. Again, I was able to control the board, pummeling him with 2 Warleader's Helixs and getting an Assemble on the board. That was all she wrote.

M5 - R/G Monsters

G1 - Nothing special here. He mulliganed to 4 cards.

G2 - I was able to slow his momentum with Firedancer, hitting him for damage while killing mana dorks. Again, having 4 Chained MB was a life saver. Mortars took out his SBD, and I was able to swing over the top with a Phoenixs and a SBD.

G3 - We played for fun. But I learned a valuable lesson!

He had a Xenagos, God of Revels in play. Along with a SBD, Courser of Kruphix, and Elvish Mystic. I had 2 Phoneixs on board, and in hand I had a SBD, Lightning Strike, and Chained.

He was at 7, I was at 12.

I swung in with my 2 Phoenixs. He blocked one with the Dragon, which I then finished off with a Lightning Strike. I then Chained his Courser of Kruphix. Now he's down to 5. His Xenagos is off line. All he has on board is a Elvish Mystic. I've got a Phoenix on board and a SBD in hand. I should win, right?

He taps for 7 G, and plays a [card]
Mistcutter Hydra[/card] for 6/6, which Xenagos now pumps to 12! BAM. I'm dead.

What I should have done was Chained his Xenagos while it was online. I would have had basically the same line of play (except maybe hitting him with the Lightning Strike instead).

Anyway, I really didn't see that coming, so I thought I'd pass it along. Maybe that was obvious to you guys, but I missed it completely.

[Jack]

Obvious enough that I went "why'd he do that" when you chained Courser. There may have been a reason to make that play (like the life gain prevents you from getting lethal next turn), but I could't see it. It was probably instinctive to you to play your burn in the combat step, and in doing so, you burned a very important bridge.

[montu]

Obvious enough that I went "why'd he do that" when you chained Courser. There may have been a reason to make that play (like the life gain prevents you from getting lethal next turn), but I could't see it. It was probably instinctive to you to play your burn in the combat step, and in doing so, you burned a very important bridge.

Well, what I was thinking was, "As long as I can keep his devotion below 7, I'll be fine a turn."

Absolutely, to your point, it was instinctive.

[Valdarith]

Gr has a lot of ways to win out of nowhere. Xenagos being on the board facilitates one of those ways. ALWAYS take care of him when offered the chance. Now you know.

Another thing to watch out for is a creature bloodrushed by Ghor-Clan Rampager + Blood, but there's not as much you can do about that one.

[Googims]

If you manage to get a obzedat burn build working (that would be a hard feat in regard to the mana) I'll be VERY impressed.

yeah I know it's really iffy, but might as well try stuff out if I can pick one up, haha.
been thinking about aurelia, but it feels more of a win-more card.
might add an erebos to the side, sin collectors, revoke existence? thought about lifebane too, but BBs probably too hard to cast early.

got a ton of b/w control/mid here, u/w control, esper control, g/r monsters, g/w aggro, black devotions with different splashs, it's actually pretty diverse at my lgs.

[magicdownunder]

@montu:

I was reviewing PSully build and your tweaks, I'm under the impression that 2x Satyr Firedancer is bad in a list with only 14 burns - I feel like you need to hit Dancer early to get value and with the lack of high impacted burns (charms and Helix) it doesn't seem as strong.

That said after the recent reports I've been getting I feel that Sally's list is better then Brad's list for the current meta game, I do however wish to improve the UW MU some how.

[LaZerBurn]

@montu:

I was reviewing PSully build and your tweaks, I'm under the impression that 2x Satyr Firedancer is bad in a list with only 14 burns - I feel like you need to hit Dancer early to get value and with the lack of high impacted burns (charms and Helix) it doesn't seem as strong.

That said after the recent reports I've been getting I feel that Sally's list is better then Brad's list for the current meta game, I do however wish to improve the UW MU some how.

I'll second that -I've not played with him much yet but it's pretty apparent that to get value you need him T3/4 and you need Charm/Helix to really get the most from him.

I am remembering my initial comments on MD Reckoner, I am reassessing them

[montu]

@montu:

I was reviewing PSully build and your tweaks, I'm under the impression that 2x Satyr Firedancer is bad in a list with only 14 burns - I feel like you need to hit Dancer early to get value and with the lack of high impacted burns (charms and Helix) it doesn't seem as strong.

That said after the recent reports I've been getting I feel that Sally's list is better then Brad's list for the current meta game, I do however wish to improve the UW MU some how.

I agree 100%. I only had 2 Firedancers going into FNM, and was well aware that my list was a bastardized dilution of strategies. But, I still wanted to try the card. I was fortunate in my games that I drew into Firedancer at opportune times.

I really like the burn-heavy
variant of R/W, and will probably stick with it for a bit, but I'm not sure which direction I'll go (more towards PSully, more towards Brad's, or some other option). I'll decide before Friday, because, again to the point, I was definitely testing my luck trying to split the middle with Firedancer and Reckoner.

On a personal note, because I am severely time constrained, I generally lag in learning what builds/strategies are best against particular decks/metagames. It doesn't look like BNG is creating much of a shift, which will help me figure out which way I want to go sooner rather than later. With that said, I also I think PSully's build is a better option. Having 4 Chained MB is incredibly useful. I've had plenty of success with SBD. It's just a matter of optimizing the number of Reckoners (I wouldn't run Mutavaults with 4 Reckoners MB) and the mix of Removal/Burn, and getting the SB right.

[montu]

@montu:

I'm under the impression that 2x Satyr Firedancer is bad in a list with only 14 burns

Kinda related to this . . . on G2 of my R/G Monsters match, I activated Chandra's ultimate. It took me 8 cards before I hit a burn spell. Fortunately it was a Warleader's Helix.

[PrimalBurn]

Hey guys been awhile since I posted anything but here goes. Yesterday I played in a win a box tournament at a local store with 40 players in it. I ended up in 9th just missing top 8 on tiebreakers but what can you do. Anyway I played the stock list from Patrick Sullivan's article with only small changes to the SB and mana

[deck]Boros Burn[/deck]

Here is a short recap of the games
Round 1 vs Junk Midrange win 2-0
Game one he has turn one thoughtseize to take my dragon but stalls on land and I get there
with phoenix and various burn. Game 2 I kill his first two smiters with mortars and start getting in with phoenix. I eventually land an assemble I boarded in and take over with it.

Round 2 vs Mono Blue Win 2-0
Game 1 he starts with familiar but goes island into double mutavault which stunts him playing his better spells. I land Chandra to kill the bird and get too far ahead with 2 phoenix. Game 2 I keep a removal heavy hand and kill everything he plays for the first four turns. I then land a reckoner and phoenix and those go the distance.

Round 3 vs RWB Midrange 1-2 Loss
His deck is full of whip obzedat and baron so this could be a tough match. Game one he lands a quick demon and I don't draw enough things to slow him down and lose quickly. Game 2 I take out all my creatures except for phoenix and slowly burn him out with the help of a couple of skullcracks. Game 3 is very close but he ends up landing a rakdos keyrune of all things then a whip and I cant draw instant speed removal to save my
life and he gets too far out of range and takes the match.

Round 4 vs GR Monsters 0-2 Loss
I have really learned to hate this deck. Game one I kill his domri he plays another kill his dragon and he goes polukranos into new Xenagos and stomps me. Game 2 I kill a Domri a Xenagos and a polukranos and he kills me with a dragon and a second Xenagos. These games were not even close I know this is a bad matchup for us just not sure how to approach it. One for ones just don't seem to do it the deck just doesn't seem to run out of gas ever very frustrating.

Round 5 vs 5 color brew 2-1 Win
I mull to 5 game one so bad start and he ramps Angel of Thune into Chromanticore and quick finishes me off. Games 2 and 3 go by quick as I hit back to back troubles for 6 each and burn him out.

Round 6 vs UWR Control 2-1 Win
Game one I beat down with a reckoner and land a Chandra. I get him down to 6 life but he hits back to back revelations into Elspeth and takes it. Game 2 I board into more burn and finish his
of quickly with boros charm and trouble I sided oracle in this game and they seems really good. Game 3 is a close one I get him down to 7 cast a boros charm he responds with a helix to which I have a skullcrack for and I take the match.

Overall I really enjoyed playing this deck. I know it still needs some tweaks but it felt very consistent every round I played it. I felt like I had a chance and was in every game I played which is something I haven't felt from a deck in a long time. This is for sure the deck I will be staying with during most of the season and look forward to any input from yall to see how we can tune this

[Valdarith]

Regarding Brad's deck vs PSully's, I favor Sullivan's. Now that Gr is taking a more prominent role in the meta and people are starting to force Brimaz and Courser, I feel 3-4 maindeck Mizzium Mortars is a very good place to be. Maindeck Reckoner is well positioned against those decks as well, but comes at the expense of running fewer or no Mutavault. You're pretty much conceeding the UW match game one but have a strong sideboard strategy to deal with them and mono black. Upon further reflection I like what he did with his list, especially if the global meta evolves like my local meta where everyone and their mother is running Gr.

[Crims0n]

anyway to fit in a pair of mutavaults in sullivans version? I hate playing without them. I definitely like his list though, even though I also love satyr firedancer.

[montu]

anyway to fit in a pair of mutavaults in sullivans version? I hate playing without them. I definitely like his list though, even though I also love satyr firedancer.

You might be able to get away with 2 mutavaults if you're only running 3 Reckoners MD. Probably best to goldfish 20-30 times and see if it pinches too much.

Otherwise, I'll run some stats tomorrow.

[magicdownunder]

Based on our data from last year with all the PyroWhite experiments its been decided that 19 R/W sources would be enough though 20+ is ideal.

For P.Sully list cutting 2 mountains for 2 vaults is what I'll do, since you'll still have 22 R/W Sources

[Crims0n]

MDU have you been able to test on modo with BNG yet?

[magicdownunder]

I've been distracted by Modern.... (the banning happen on the 13th for me)

MOCS3 will be sealed but right after that (on the same month) MOCS1 will also run, since MOCS1 is Standard - I'll make to get in some testing sometime next week.

[Jack]

I think Sully's list is actually better without Mutavault. Not because it would screw up your colored mana requirements, but because it doesn't seem to go well with your plan of attack.

[magicdownunder]

What I'll be testing once I come back from the workshop:

[deck]Rw Burn - MDU Tweaked[/deck]

I think Sully's list is actually better without Mutavault. Not because it would screw up your colored mana requirements, but because it doesn't seem to go well with your plan of attack.

Both sides get gassed out more often
then you think, also great against devour flesh and preventing all in attacks.

[montu]

I think Sully's list is actually better without Mutavault. Not because it would screw up your colored mana requirements, but because it doesn't seem to go well with your plan of attack.

Both sides get gassed out more often then you think, also great against devour flesh and preventing all in attacks.

Yeah, I've been playing this build on MTGO all day, and the Mutavaults have yet to be a hindrance, but they've frequently come in handy.

[Toddington]

Props to MDU, I've really been enjoying the Angry Phoenix list with Satyr Firedancer. I've played a few games and here's where I'm at;

[deck]Angry Phoenix, Dancing Satyr[/deck]

I really hated drawing Skullcrack in matchups where it is bad, so I shipped it to the 'board. I felt like Boros Charm was better in
the main, for the higher damage and general utility.

I really liked the fat end of the Big Boros Burn deck, so I bumped up Mutavault and Stormbreath Dragon to playsets.

It's possible there's too many Mizzium Mortars in the 'board (if there should be any...), but I feel like it's quite good right now and sometimes Shock doesn't cut the mustard. It does create awkward tension with the Dancer, but you don't want him in all matchups where you want to kill creatures (GR?).

I'm really looking forward to seeing developments with the PSully list, he made some good points in his article.

[Purp]

The deck just loses to BW.

[Elricity]

Yeah, mutavault ended up being quite valuable when I was testing with it. Free shocks and all. The deck has more than enough to cast reckoner and still 18 red for the rest. Am I the only loon trying out Oracle?

BW is definitely ugly but I've seen MDU play out of it.

[montu]

4 Dragons feels too top heavy. There's enough burn to control the board until you draw into him. And drawing 2 too early in the game can be awkward.

I'm planning on sticking with 3.

[magicdownunder]

You really want to hit your Dragons T_T (at least 1 or 2).

@Purp:

BW Midrange is a very hard MU (dispute what some may try to get you to believe) mainly because 12 discards, BBV and GhostDad isn't fun.... you'll need luck or if things get out of hand, pack more 1cc creatures in the SB or MD.