Gunning for Tactical/Practical Reviews

[hamfactorial]

I don't know what anyone is talking about here, but I enjoy reading it. Thanks for doing these, Wraith.

[Wraith223]

I don't know what anyone is talking about here, but I enjoy reading it. Thanks for doing these, Wraith.

Glad you like! I have wasted $1,000 on crap gear I did not need or was only "hobby" equipment. If I can get more people to stop buying crap gear; the mid to high range quality will stay in business and have more incentive to innovate. Most crap gear companies are just knock offs (condor, voodoo tactical, Rothco, and crap you generally find in fake military surplus). Also, having folks prepare some for any disaster or attack keeps my country and yours strong.

[Jasper]

There is an alarming lack of Mosin-Nagant discussion in this thread.

"You fire with flame bursting like fire of dragon, twisting bolt like maniac between firings and ejecting empty case as big as beer can from action." - Ivan Chesnokov

[Captain Murphy]

A real man hunts and fights with fists

[Captain Murphy]

Seriously though, this thread is classic. I eagerly await another argument involving caliber and/or misconceptions.

[Wraith223]

I will post this months review in 2 weeks cause I am studying for the Dallas PD exams and constantly working out.

@Jasper, I tried the Mosin-Nagant and found it surpased by current rifles. The round is excellent but there is better upgrades now. Prepping is all about the balance between old school thought/gear and upgrades to those said norms. An example is the pistol. I can't find a better haevy caliber weapon than a rovolver as it is the most reliable weapon. Same goes for the 1911. On the other hand, knives and bolt action rifles have seen significant upgrades. Look at T.O.P.S knives as their quality, utility, and durability is much better than past builds. The Mosin-Nagant is surpased by this:

Its a .308 win.. All the rifles you need and has open sights if your scope fails. You can get it with a left side
bolt so you can reload while not moving your firing hand. That is a big bonus and it carries 10 rounds. The laminate stock does not weigh that much and is damn near indestructable. Most might want to put a large scope on it, but I see an excellent midrange CQB support weapon by utilizing an advanced ACOG from Trijicon. You can get quick detatch scope mounts to utilize a long range scope if necessary. The other cool bonus is that you can put a suppresor on the Ruger as the flash suppresors can be removed. Here is the link to the website.
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteSc ... odels.html
I see a couple of old farts trading parts and building the old russian rifles at the gun shows and I question whether it's worth it. Why? Quality. The upgrades we have to taday in rifles outclasses those old rifles. Now some of you may say an expert marksman can and will prove me wrong, but I counter that most
are not expert marksman that need to use years of training to make an old rifle as good as the current ones.

[Pendulum]

What does CQB stand for?

[Kazekirimaru]

Close-quarters battle.

[Wraith223]

Thanks Kaze.

If you see CQC; that means "Close Quarters Combat" which is the same thing.

[hamfactorial]

Wraith:

I'm looking around for a handgun for concealed carry, but I have two terrible handicaps: 1, I live in California. 2, I'm left handed.

I like 40 and 45, but could be convinced that 9mm is acceptable.

Any recommendations? I don't mind getting a gun modified for left handed use. I looked at 1911s first, since a single stack would be easy to holster in a belt.

I have an FNP-40 as my target gun now but it would make a poor carry gun.

[Captain Murphy]

I'm ambidextrous, a skill that was great for hunting

[Captain Murphy]

What kind of compound bows would you recommend?

[Wraith223]

Wraith:

I'm looking around for a handgun for concealed carry, but I have two terrible handicaps: 1, I live in California. 2, I'm left handed.

I like 40 and 45, but could be convinced that 9mm is acceptable.

Any recommendations? I don't mind getting a gun modified for left handed use. I looked at 1911s first, since a single stack would be easy to holster in a belt.

I have an FNP-40 as my target gun now but it would make a poor carry gun.

Kahr CwW 40 or 45 is reccomended and not to exspensive. I saw you looked at the 1911, but have seen the officers model or concealed carry version?

This model is very esy to carry
and you can get amidextrous versions or upgrades. I prefer Sig, Spring Field Armory, and Tauraus (only 1911 models). Colt is good but they are so overpriced for the value.
Other Concealed carry weapons could be a revolver. They don't violate any laws. Smith and Wesson makes great revolvers and you may have to look hard for something other than damn .38. Here is one in .22 mag.

Here is one in .357 mag, but over the years; I just don't care for that caliber as either goes through or not enough power. Has bad bullet drop as well.


A few other types from Sig might help you and the Feds like the P239 SAS Gen 2 in .357 sig (also in 9mm and .40 SM).


I suggest going to about 4 different gun shows before buying to try every gun that catches your eye and also the ones you might not care for. You will learn a lot from just 2 shows, and the other 2 will get you noticing price differences. Go to an gun club and ask for gun rentals if that is available to you.

[Wraith223]

What kind of compound bows would you recommend?

I gave bow hunting a solid try and found it lacking to me. I want to drop my target immediately and not run after it. Bow hunting is a personal choice. You can pick a target in hunting that is greater in danger than your skill can cover. It is silent hunting, but in Texas, it is now finally legal to hunt with a suppresor. Bow hunting allowed you to hunt silently without your neighbor crapping his or pants. Suppresors can now do the same thing legally.

It is not in my skill or perview to reccomend a long bow, compound bow, or crossbow. I have taken the Bow hunters safety course and there I learned that there are countless opinions on styles, equipment, and hunting methods. Anyone who tries
bow hunting has my respect for the skill required and concern as I have seen many a nice buck running around with an arrow in random places.

[Captain Murphy]

I asked because its almost impossible to get a gun here, and its highly illegal to have suppressor. I still use my bow at times and I'm quite good at it, most hunting here is pigs anyway. Take the pigging dogs out to finish if you had a poor shot.

[Pendulum]

Generally, when using a bow to hunt, you want to drop your target just as fast as when hunting with a firearm; that just means you're gonna be waiting longer for the prey to get into an optimum position.

@Murph: the bow you need is going to be based more on your personal type than a gun would be. Pull weight, the type of hunting you're going to be engaged in, etc. Go feel out what's right for you at a shop instead of looking for brand names.
- Source: family members who bow-hunt semi-professionally

[hamfactorial]

Wraith:

I'm looking around for a handgun for concealed carry, but I have two terrible handicaps: 1, I live in California. 2, I'm left handed.

I like 40 and 45, but could be convinced that 9mm is acceptable.

Any recommendations? I don't mind getting a gun modified for left handed use. I looked at 1911s first, since a single stack would be easy to holster in a belt.

I have an FNP-40 as my target gun now but it would make a poor carry gun.

Kahr CwW 40 or 45 is reccomended and not to exspensive. I saw you looked at the 1911, but have seen the officers model or concealed
carry version?

This model is very esy to carry and you can get amidextrous versions or upgrades. I prefer Sig, Spring Field Armory, and Tauraus (only 1911 models). Colt is good but they are so overpriced for the value.
Other Concealed carry weapons could be a revolver. They don't violate any laws. Smith and Wesson makes great revolvers and you may have to look hard for something other than damn .38. Here is one in .22 mag.

Here is one in .357 mag, but over the years; I just don't care for that caliber as either goes through or not enough power. Has bad bullet drop as well.


A few other types from Sig might
help you and the Feds like the P239 SAS Gen 2 in .357 sig (also in 9mm and .40 SM).


I suggest going to about 4 different gun shows before buying to try every gun that catches your eye and also the ones you might not care for. You will learn a lot from just 2 shows, and the other 2 will get you noticing price differences. Go to an gun club and ask for gun rentals if that is available to you.

Many thanks, sir! I'll look into those Kahr models. I've certainly looked into the officers model 1911s and liked them, but never had one in my hand.

[Wraith223]

I asked because its almost impossible to get a gun here, and its highly illegal to have suppressor. I still use my bow at times and I'm quite good at it, most hunting here is pigs anyway. Take the pigging dogs out to finish if you had a poor shot.

Do you live in Hawaii? If so; that sucks. I friend of mine uses a massive air cannon for hunting cause of an arm injury. he just uses a large compressed tank and shoots a custom lead bullet through a custom air rifle. It works and gets about 2 shots off per tank. It is not load and sounds like a small nail gun. I don't know about the laws where you live, but it might be an option.

@Ham, glad I could help you. Attend many gun shows, look up prices on Buds Guns online, compare prices of gun
broker and guns america, and finally check your local gun club for pricing (ordering the weapon from them) BEFORE buying anywhere. On the topic of used guns, I perfer not to buy used guns. They could have been used in a crime or is stolen. I use a a little fiber optic stick light to check the barrel for abuse or high use. Many a good lokking gun had pits in the barrel or the rifling was significantly worn. That reduces the value by more than half even if you can replace the barrel (AR-15). Pistols are the worst about barrel abuse due to rifles often getting more cleaning. People put their pistol anywhere (insert joke here). You can never fully trust a used gun unless you shoot it often to find unknown problems. It's actual a hunters proverb from "Ghost in the Darkness" (movie).

[redthirst]

Hate jumping into Wraith's shit uninvited, but if there's anything I have a vast collection of useless knowledge about and experience with, it's CC handguns.

Ham: the most important considerations when looking for a gun for everyday carry are - in order:
1. Comfort carrying the weapon (A .22 in your pocket beats the hell out of a .50 you didn't bring when you need a gun)
2. Comfort shooting the gun (Once again, a .22 you can quickly and accurately shoot beats the hell out of a .50 you can barely pull the trigger on and can't hit shit with)
3. Adequate stopping power (I wouldn't recommend anything under a .380)

Sadly, the only one of those you can really apply without testing the guns yourself is (IMO) the least important and the one that's hardest to test is the most important.

[Wraith223]

Good points Redthirst and I don't mind any comments or suggestions as it represents an alternative opinion. We need those. Ham should shoot about every handgun caliber untile he finds a stopping power, accuracy, and recoil he an tolerate. I grew up on one handed 44mag thumb buster shooting, thus I can fire one handed 500 S&W (4inch) with ease. Many may not have the forarm and wrist strength to handle said recoil.

If you notice; I showed a .22 mag pistol. I used to have one and it was decently accurate. .22 long rifle is great, but I don'twant people picking targets greater than their skill or poping off a lot of rounds. Lighter caliber guns tend to trick people into shooting more and that makes you a liability for bystanders. If you want a light caliber round that has good punch + Accuracy; try the FN 5.7. It is a big gun but holds 20 rounds. You can get California friendly mags for it. The little round is an armor
puncher and screams out that barrel. If you are a big guy that is fit; you could conceal carry it.

If you are a first time buyer of concealed carry weapons; PLEASE go to a gun club and try as many pistols/calibers as possible with supervision. There is much to learn to prevent Glock leg, slide burn, and massive wasteful spending on little concealed carry pistols. Don't be afraid to save for the better quality weapon as it will serve you longer with quality, trust, and value retention. The feel, quality, and shooting diffrerences between Smith and Wesson M&P 45 in comparison to the new H&K 45 is quite drastic. Pull the slide slowly, while your eyes are closed, to feel with your hands the smoothness and fine tuned machine the H&K is over the M&P. This an example I use for new buyers to understand how buying a pistol should be.

[Jasper]

I will post this months review in 2 weeks cause I am studying for the Dallas PD exams and constantly working out.

@Jasper, I tried the Mosin-Nagant and found it surpased by current rifles. The round is excellent but there is better upgrades now. Prepping is all about the balance between old school thought/gear and upgrades to those said norms. An example is the pistol. I can't find a better haevy caliber weapon than a rovolver as it is the most reliable weapon. Same goes for the 1911. On the other hand, knives and bolt action rifles have seen significant upgrades. Look at T.O.P.S knives as their quality, utility, and durability is much better than past builds. The Mosin-Nagant is surpased by this:

Its a .308 win.. All the rifles you need and has open sights if your scope fails. You can get it with a left side bolt so you can reload while not moving your firing hand. That is a big bonus and it carries 10 rounds. The laminate stock does not weigh that much and is damn near indestructable. Most might want to put a large scope on it, but I see an excellent midrange CQB support weapon by utilizing an advanced ACOG from Trijicon. You can get quick detatch scope mounts to utilize a long range scope if necessary. The other cool bonus is that you can put a suppresor on the Ruger as the flash suppresors can be removed. Here is the link to the website.
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteSc ... odels.html
I see a couple of old farts trading parts and building the old russian rifles at the gun shows and I question whether it's worth it. Why?
Quality. The upgrades we have to taday in rifles outclasses those old rifles. Now some of you may say an expert marksman can and will prove me wrong, but I counter that most are not expert marksman that need to use years of training to make an old rifle as good as the current ones.

If you only factor quality, then you are absolutely right. For the price of that Ruger, I could arm 10 people with 10 Mosin Nagants and 440 rounds of ammo. Well, at least I could have like 2 years ago.

I feel that even today, for the price, nothing beats the Mosin Nagant for reliability, cost of ammunition, and accuracy. It kicks like a mule, the M44 throws a fireball out of the barrel, it's heavy, and it stinks, but there is nothing I'd rather have for under $150.



On the topic of CC handguns, I really prefer Double Action snub-nosed revolvers. They are loud as hell, and that's the main thing you really want tbh.
99% of criminals aren't willing to die to get the $3.50 out of your wallet. Most snubby's have excellent close range stopping power, and accuracy is decent as well.

If you are dead set on a small auto-loader, I'd recommend something from Kel-Tec.

[Wraith223]

I will post this months review in 2 weeks cause I am studying for the Dallas PD exams and constantly working out.

@Jasper, I tried the Mosin-Nagant and found it surpased by current rifles. The round is excellent but there is better upgrades now. Prepping is all about the balance between old school thought/gear and upgrades to those said norms. An example is the pistol. I can't find a better haevy caliber weapon than a rovolver as it is the most reliable weapon. Same goes for the 1911. On the other hand, knives and bolt action rifles have seen significant upgrades. Look at T.O.P.S knives as their quality,
utility, and durability is much better than past builds. The Mosin-Nagant is surpased by this:

Its a .308 win.. All the rifles you need and has open sights if your scope fails. You can get it with a left side bolt so you can reload while not moving your firing hand. That is a big bonus and it carries 10 rounds. The laminate stock does not weigh that much and is damn near indestructable. Most might want to put a large scope on it, but I see an excellent midrange CQB support weapon by utilizing an advanced ACOG from Trijicon. You can get quick detatch scope mounts to utilize a long range scope if necessary. The other cool bonus is that you can put a suppresor on the Ruger as the flash suppresors can be removed. Here is the link to the website.
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteSc ... odels.html
I see a couple of old farts trading parts and building the old russian rifles at the gun shows and I question whether it's worth it. Why? Quality. The upgrades we have to taday in rifles outclasses those old rifles. Now some of you may say an expert marksman can and will prove me wrong, but I counter that most are not expert marksman that need to use years of training to make an old rifle as good as the current ones.

If you only factor quality, then you are absolutely right. For the price of that Ruger, I could arm 10 people with 10 Mosin Nagants and 440 rounds of ammo. Well, at least I could have like 2 years ago.

I feel that even today, for the price, nothing beats the Mosin Nagant for reliability, cost of ammunition, and accuracy. It kicks like a mule, the M44 throws a fireball out of the barrel, it's heavy, and it stinks, but there is nothing I'd rather have for under $150.



On
the topic of CC handguns, I really prefer Double Action snub-nosed revolvers. They are loud as hell, and that's the main thing you really want tbh. 99% of criminals aren't willing to die to get the $3.50 out of your wallet. Most snubby's have excellent close range stopping power, and accuracy is decent as well.

If you are dead set on a small auto-loader, I'd recommend something from Kel-Tec.

Don't get offended, but you make my spine hurt.

Did you write that just to get a rise out of me? You will spend X dollars on crap, claim to fit out X people for X less dollars when you would never do that (poor arguement), and advise buying the cheapest piece of shit on the gun show table (Kel-Tec). Come on! You can't be serious? I will reccognize your point on Snub nose use, but it takes skill to be effective.
If you live Russia or have vast quantities of Mosin-Nagant ammo
available by your military/local stores; yes, go ahead and buy that moth balled and Cosmoline covered turd. At least the M1903 shoots a round you can find anywhere. Why not shoot that? Oh, you can't or could (both rifles)? Want to know why? Rounds you buy now have a stronger burn rate in the powder than can damage the action or not rated for metal pressures (the gun explodes). We have 30.06 and .308 everywhere, and it boggles my mind why you would waste time on the Mosin-Nagant's caliber in the U.S? Think about it. It's WW1 technology that requires more money to make the gun combat effective (currently) than the gun is worth. Now I recognize the folks who want to keep the old rifles alive as I have an M1 carbine I shoot for fun (uses special lower pressure powder rounds). It is NOT my go to self defense gun for threats or serious fighting. If you want to go play WW1 in the adavanced weapon world; be my guest.
I hope I only have to say this once. Don't buy Kel-Tec. It's crap and made poorly.
The plastics they use in the frame don't care for high heat or cold and will break. Their accuracy sucks as the slide is about as tight as a 40 year prostitute. I have shot many of these weapons and have been dissapointed with everyone I tried. The only worse weapon I have fired is a Llama. You don't see those very often anymore and thank God you don't. An example is needed. I really like the .22 mag auto from Kel-Tec. I finally got my hands on one and was let down by the toy feel. The accuracy was ok, but the front sight fiber optic fell off. WTF? In texas, it gets rather hot, and the thing was flexing in my hand like a $20 airsoft gun. This is not a weapon for you to rely on or spend a single $ on. If can only afford a $300 gun today; save your damn money for a few more pay periods to afford the quality gun. While you save; research the weapons you find interesting, try others at the range from friends, and attend more gun shows. Guns and tacical gear have a significant learning curve on quality and $.
Learn from my mistakes and don't buy crap.
Snub noise revolvers are OK, but should not be your go to gun. They are a back up gun or pocket pistol while wearing a suite. Most new shooters will have issue with them in accuracy at 20. The bullet is not given enough powder to burn in order to reach a "good" FPS, and the twist is not there to give significant accuracy. If you are firing it to scare attackers; you don't understand personal defense in the slightest and a liability to bystanders. It's a backup gun for very close range attacks and requires many practice sessions to become profficient with. Put a laser on it to make the attackers think you could hit them.
I get that maybe you grew up with this idea of gun use from guns presented, but here me out. I have folks come to me asking for advice on buying a new weapon and won't spend over $400. The drove to
meet me in a $75,000 car and wear very exspensive clothes and/or jewlry. A gun is more than a tool or a right to own as a U.S. Citizen. It is a responsibility to not ba a liability to your fellow americans and a life saving device. If a person spends X dollars to look their best in vehicle, clothes, apperance, jewlry, and ect; why does saving for a top quality live saving device so hard to comprehend. I am also very confused why a person will spend more money on a gun to make in combat viable when the gun is barely worth half of said upgrades. It's called "tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime". If it is a challenge to you to take a $300 cheap weapon and make it viable; you are playing with a toy that can hurt you. If you research, try out, and practice constantly on weapons to find your core balence of defensive/offensive weapon for the target you expect to dispatch; you understand self defense. I have nothing persoanl against users of Kel-Tec and Mosin-Nagants, but highly dissagree with the
use, rationality for use in prepping, and explination of why they are better. I am not pushing (X) gun or gear companies, but instead resources that I find the best for prepping for nuub, novice, and expierianced preppers/personal defense. Lastly, please think of what you reccomend as some nuub dumbass could get really hurt of cause an incident. There was a professional elephant hunter that used a light caliber weapon. Many were found dead trying to coppy his shot and use of said light caliber. It takes great skill to effectivly use lower quality or light caliber weapons.

Please ponder this great quote from Will on Son's of Guns, "A pistol is a way to a rifle".

Well I am off tomarrow for my Dallas PD trails. Wish me luck and I will try to get back with any questions so far.

[Captain Murphy]

I live in Australia, its still possible to get hunting rifles but to go about getting a licence, doing the courses and buying a gun is both hard and very expensive. Even bows are banned in certain places.

[Wraith223]

I live in Australia, its still possible to get hunting rifles but to go about getting a licence, doing the courses and buying a gun is both hard and very expensive. Even bows are banned in certain places.

You guys seriously need to break away from England and just ignore them. How sad. It is as if they don't want to you to defend yourself. I now understand the need for the huge knife there. You guys live with how many deadly creatures? Maybe a 2-3 require a serious rifle though. No bears or big cats right? Just aquatic dinosaurs and sharks. Now I got a real question. Have you tried deer meat? And how is it compared to kangaroo?

What about air rifles? I can make a serious elk stopper with one.

[Jasper]

---

I will post this months review in 2 weeks cause I am studying for the Dallas PD exams and constantly working out.

@Jasper, I tried the Mosin-Nagant and found it surpased by current rifles. The round is excellent but there is better upgrades now. Prepping is all about the balance between old school thought/gear and upgrades to those said norms. An example is the pistol. I can't find a better haevy caliber weapon than a
rovolver as it is the most reliable weapon. Same goes for the 1911. On the other hand, knives and bolt action rifles have seen significant upgrades. Look at T.O.P.S knives as their quality, utility, and durability is much better than past builds. The Mosin-Nagant is surpased by this:

Its a .308 win.. All the rifles you need and has open sights if your scope fails. You can get it with a left side bolt so you can reload while not moving your firing hand. That is a big bonus and it carries 10 rounds. The laminate stock does not weigh that much and is damn near indestructable. Most might want to put a large scope on it, but I see an excellent midrange CQB support weapon by utilizing an advanced ACOG from Trijicon. You can get quick detatch scope mounts to utilize a long range scope if necessary. The other cool bonus is that you can put a suppresor on the Ruger as the flash suppresors can be removed.
Here is the link to the website.
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteSc ... odels.html
I see a couple of old farts trading parts and building the old russian rifles at the gun shows and I question whether it's worth it. Why? Quality. The upgrades we have to taday in rifles outclasses those old rifles. Now some of you may say an expert marksman can and will prove me wrong, but I counter that most are not expert marksman that need to use years of training to make an old rifle as good as the current ones.

If you only factor quality, then you are absolutely right. For the price of that Ruger, I could arm 10 people with 10 Mosin Nagants and 440 rounds of ammo. Well, at least I could have like 2 years ago.

I feel that even today, for the price, nothing beats the Mosin
Nagant for reliability, cost of ammunition, and accuracy. It kicks like a mule, the M44 throws a fireball out of the barrel, it's heavy, and it stinks, but there is nothing I'd rather have for under $150.



On the topic of CC handguns, I really prefer Double Action snub-nosed revolvers. They are loud as hell, and that's the main thing you really want tbh. 99% of criminals aren't willing to die to get the $3.50 out of your wallet. Most snubby's have excellent close range stopping power, and accuracy is decent as well.

If you are dead set on a small auto-loader, I'd recommend something from Kel-Tec.

Don't get offended, but you make my spine hurt.

Did you write that just to get a rise out of me? You will spend X dollars on crap, claim to fit out X people for X less dollars when you would never do that (poor arguement), and advise buying the cheapest piece of shit on the gun show table (Kel-Tec). Come on! You can't be serious? I will reccognize your point on Snub nose use, but it takes skill to be effective.
If you live Russia or have vast quantities of Mosin-Nagant ammo available by your military/local stores; yes, go ahead and buy that moth balled and Cosmoline covered turd. At least the M1903 shoots a round you can find anywhere. Why not shoot that? Oh, you can't or could (both rifles)? Want to know why? Rounds you buy now have a stronger burn rate in the powder than can damage the action or not rated for metal pressures (the gun explodes). We have 30.06 and .308 everywhere, and it boggles my mind why you would waste time on the Mosin-Nagant's caliber in the U.S? Think about it. It's WW1 technology that requires more money to make the gun combat effective (currently) than the gun is worth. Now I recognize the folks who want to keep the old rifles alive as I have an M1 carbine I shoot
for fun (uses special lower pressure powder rounds). It is NOT my go to self defense gun for threats or serious fighting. If you want to go play WW1 in the adavanced weapon world; be my guest.
I hope I only have to say this once. Don't buy Kel-Tec. It's crap and made poorly. The plastics they use in the frame don't care for high heat or cold and will break. Their accuracy sucks as the slide is about as tight as a 40 year prostitute. I have shot many of these weapons and have been dissapointed with everyone I tried. The only worse weapon I have fired is a Llama. You don't see those very often anymore and thank God you don't. An example is needed. I really like the .22 mag auto from Kel-Tec. I finally got my hands on one and was let down by the toy feel. The accuracy was ok, but the front sight fiber optic fell off. WTF? In texas, it gets rather hot, and the thing was flexing in my hand like a $20 airsoft gun. This is not a weapon for you to rely on or spend a single $ on.
If can only afford a $300 gun today; save your damn money for a few more pay periods to afford the quality gun. While you save; research the weapons you find interesting, try others at the range from friends, and attend more gun shows. Guns and tacical gear have a significant learning curve on quality and $. Learn from my mistakes and don't buy crap.
Snub noise revolvers are OK, but should not be your go to gun. They are a back up gun or pocket pistol while wearing a suite. Most new shooters will have issue with them in accuracy at 20. The bullet is not given enough powder to burn in order to reach a "good" FPS, and the twist is not there to give significant accuracy. If you are firing it to scare attackers; you don't understand personal defense in the slightest and a liability to bystanders. It's a backup gun for very close range attacks and requires many practice sessions to become profficient with. Put a laser on it to make the attackers think you could hit them.
I get that maybe you grew up with this idea of gun use from guns presented, but here me out. I have folks come to me asking for advice on buying a new weapon and won't spend over $400. The drove to meet me in a $75,000 car and wear very exspensive clothes and/or jewlry. A gun is more than a tool or a right to own as a U.S. Citizen. It is a responsibility to not ba a liability to your fellow americans and a life saving device. If a person spends X dollars to look their best in vehicle, clothes, apperance, jewlry, and ect; why does saving for a top quality live saving device so hard to comprehend. I am also very confused why a person will spend more money on a gun to make in combat viable when the gun is barely worth half of said upgrades. It's called "tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime". If it is a challenge to you to take a $300 cheap weapon and make it viable;
you are playing with a toy that can hurt you. If you research, try out, and practice constantly on weapons to find your core balence of defensive/offensive weapon for the target you expect to dispatch; you understand self defense. I have nothing persoanl against users of Kel-Tec and Mosin-Nagants, but highly dissagree with the use, rationality for use in prepping, and explination of why they are better. I am not pushing (X) gun or gear companies, but instead resources that I find the best for prepping for nuub, novice, and expierianced preppers/personal defense. Lastly, please think of what you reccomend as some nuub dumbass could get really hurt of cause an incident. There was a professional elephant hunter that used a light caliber weapon. Many were found dead trying to coppy his shot and use of said light caliber. It takes great skill to effectivly use lower quality or light caliber weapons.

Please ponder this great quote from Will on Son's of Guns, "A pistol is a way to a rifle".


Well I am off tomarrow for my Dallas PD trails. Wish me luck and I will try to get back with any questions so far.

No, I in fact did not expect you to pound a $900 Scout rifle up your ass in response to my comment.

I kind of came in here with the mindset that this was kind of the firearms GD or something, which I suppose was wrong. I'm not a prepper, nor do I claim to be. I'm a cheap man, who likes to own guns for the purpose of shooting them. I like my Nagant, and I especially like my 500 rounds of ammunition, and bring that together for under $180, and its practically a match made in heaven. If you couldn't tell, I also buy from Taco Bell's dollar menu rather often.

I recommended KelTec based on things I've heard from friends and family members. I've handled them, and they feel pretty much no different to me than any other small polymer framed handgun.
Groupings seemed adequate based on the intended application. I'm not sure why you suggested .22 Mag for self defense, but I suppose that would be good if he was worried about being overrun by squirrels or something.

My personal picks for CC calibers would be .380 and 9mm, simply because they are widely available and inexpensive to train with. It doesn't matter what you carry, or how expensive it is. What matters is your proficiency with it. Whatever firearm you decide to buy, you need to run plenty of rounds through it to become familiar with it. That's why I generally advise against picking .40 or .45 for your first CCW. I'd personally rather be kicked in the nuts than fire another polymer framed .40 or 10mm, but that's not why I don't recommend them. I don't recommend them because their ammo cost is higher. Of course this is irrelevant if you are willing to spend more $$$ to throw lead down range, but to most people, money actually matters.


My apologies for inadvertently getting you riled up.
You going to NCTCOG?

[redthirst]

I think y'all are butting heads because of a very fundamental difference in approach:

Jasper's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to inexpensively poke holes in paper at the range.

Wraith's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to efficiently poke holes in something alive in an emergency.

[Jasper]

I think y'all are butting heads because of a very fundamental difference in approach:

Jasper's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to inexpensively poke holes in paper at the range.

Wraith's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to efficiently poke holes in something alive in an emergency.

Pretty much this. I live in the middle of nowhere, so I spend more time shooting on my own property than I do worrying about the people that live around me.

[Wraith223]

I think y'all are butting heads because of a very fundamental difference in approach:

Jasper's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to inexpensively poke holes in paper at the range.

Wraith's looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to efficiently poke holes in something alive in an emergency.

This 100%. I have shot and bought way to many guns that were only good for paper. I want to know where jasper lives cause I can't find 9mm for decent prices that are cheaper than 45. 380 not to long ago was $80 a box for home defense grade. .380 is not cheap unless you buy reloads. One round I really want to try is 357 sig. Look it up. It looks like a great offensive round for home defense. Those neck down
rounds kick ass.

@jasper, I get you know with the assistance of redthirst. Money is not a real problem for guns $1000 and under. You can always save for it. It's not hard if you are on a budget. Plinking with cheap guns is fun, but when you put them through tough senarios; the frequently jam or fail. I guess I have grown out of the cheap gun fun times.

[Captain Murphy]

I live in Australia, its still possible to get hunting rifles but to go about getting a licence, doing the courses and buying a gun is both hard and very expensive. Even bows are banned in certain places.

You guys seriously need to break away from England and just ignore them. How sad. It is as if they don't want to you to defend yourself. I now understand the need for the huge knife there. You guys live with how many deadly creatures? Maybe a 2-3 require a serious rifle though. No bears or big cats right? Just aquatic dinosaurs and sharks. Now I got a real question. Have you tried
deer meat? And how is it compared to kangaroo?

What about air rifles? I can make a serious elk stopper with one.

Air rifles are still considered firearms. Don't get me wrong, I quite like the laws. I've never felt the need for a gun to protect myself. We have basically no gun crime, the only time you hear about it is when organised crime make a hit. No civilians ever get hurt and we never have random shootings.

The worse you hear about is people fighting drunk and someones head hit the ground too hard and they die. Lots of fights here though.

Dingoes, Crocodiles and boars are the only thing you would generally want to shoot. But again, people have pigging dogs who can fight hard against other creatures. Kangaroos wont try anything with you unless you try to fuck with them, but if they attack you its likely you will be killed.

[Pendulum]

Dingoes, Crocodiles and boars are the only thing you would generally want to shoot. But again, people have pigging dogs who can fight hard against other creatures. Kangaroos wont try anything with you unless you try to fuck with them, but if they attack you its likely you will be killed.

Lol. The worst here we have to deal with (outside of people's trained [or poorly trained] dogs) is, like, really horny bunnies.

[Kazekirimaru]

Dingoes, Crocodiles and boars are the only thing you would generally want to shoot. But again, people have pigging dogs who can fight hard against other creatures. Kangaroos wont try anything with you unless you try to fuck with them, but if they attack you its likely you will be killed.

My mental picture of Captain Murphy ITT:

[Captain Murphy]

lol not even close. I'm clean shaven, half his age and have stereotypical Italian heritage features. I look bad in hats too.

[Jasper]

So around 9 hours ago, I heard a noise outside my house. I grabbed my Glock 17, and walked outside, immediately noticing that one of our properties security cameras had been ripped off the mount. I racked the slide on the Glock, and walked to the front of the house, seeing another damaged camera. I began walking up our right side driveway quietly, and I heard faint talking and footsteps on the left side driveway. I walked back towards the house and jogged to the front of the left side driveway. As soon as I got onto the path, I saw 2 men wearing masks, 1 without a shirt. As soon as they saw me, I aimed with the Glock and they took off running away down the driveway. I yelled for them to get the fuck off my property.

Fucking druggie trailer home fuckups. Read the signs, notice the cameras, and stay the hell off my property. I won't miss next time.

In the 911 call I mention that I fired 1 shot. It took the officer 45
minutes to get to my house, and it was one lone officer, with no ambulance or anything. It's nice to know that the response time is so slow that I can save myself the trouble of calling next time if I'm bleeding to death in my own home.

[Wraith223]

Damn Jasper! What a story. Where do you live and why would they destroy cameras? I don't understand the druggie trailer home context. I would reccomend a rifle next time. Also, shooting a fleeing criminal in the back can often land you in prison. If you like cameras for security; hide them (bird house, tree hollow, in the tree with camo). Still have a few cameras up o get them thinking those are the ones to knock down.

[Jasper]

One of the cameras is actually missing completely, so they may have just wanted the camera for whatever reason. I live out in the country, but at the dead end of my street there are a couple known meth heads who live in trailer homes. I suspect it may be them, and if not them, then some of the trailer house punks up the street.

I'm aware of the law about shooting fleeing suspects in the back. I put a shot into the ground because I wanted them to know that I could have shot them if I really wanted to. I also wanted all their friends down the road to hear, and think twice before coming back. Apparently warning shots are also illegal, or atleast that's what the responding officer told me.

The 2 camera's they damaged are in very obvious locations to deter the idiots. There are also a couple more cameras in less obvious/harder to reach locations.


The next time I go outside in response to a strange noise, I'll
probably take the 12 gauge with me. Semi-auto, 1 in the chamber, 3 in the tube. Probably 00 buck.

I had Jury duty the morning after the incident, but I was able to get it deferred. Spent the day fixing the cameras and looking for the one missing camera in the woods at the front of the house. Been wearing my holster while I'm on the property. Can't even go to FNM without worrying about some punks messing with my house.

[Wraith223]

If I get the job with Dallas PD; we can meet up and see what I can help with or just play cards. Do you have a fence around the Property? If so, paint the posts purple.

[Wraith223]

Gunning for Tactical/Practical February Edition
1. Marlin Lever Action 1895 (45-70)
2. Blackhawk S.O.L.A.G. HD w/Kevlar (green)
3. Nikon Action Zoom 10-22x50
This review is for wilderness man who is hunting big game. You always need a decent pair of protective gloves as most environments have nasty vegetation. A good pair of gloves can allow you to last longer in the field and give you a strength that would otherwise be missed. Many preppers discuss guns, gear, and food, but forget the need for long distance intelligence gathering. A decent set of binoculars can give you a tactical advantage in knowing at long distance what is there or is not noticeable to the naked eye. You could spend $2k easy on a pair of Swarovski Binoculars, but I found them to be a show piece more than anything. Spotting scopes are where the Swarovski brand shines. Nikon is just fine for the medium grade prepper. This review starts with the big
bore Marlin and I warn you, it does kick. It rewards you with reliability and extreme damage.

Marlin Lever Action 1895- used for $350 (new is about $500-700), Blued, Required a $45 upgrade. Here are the Specs.
Caliber 45/70 Gov't. Order Online from Gallery of Guns
Capacity 4-shot tubular magazine
Action Lever action; side ejection; solid top receiver; deeply blued metal surfaces; hammer block safety.
Stock American black walnut pistol grip stock with fluted comb; cut checkering; rubber rifle butt pad; tough Mar-Shield® finish; swivel studs.
Barrel 22" with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves).
Twist Rate 1:20" r.h.
Sights Adjustable semi-buckhorn folding rear, ramp front sight with brass bead and Wide-Scan™ hood. Solid top receiver tapped for scope mount; offset hammer spur (right or left hand) for scope use.
Overall Length 40.5"
Weight 7.5 lbs.

I went to the Saxet Gun Show and found a private seller with this gun.
[img]http://www.marlinfirearms.
com/images/bigbore/photo_1895.jpg[/img]
I made an offer and he took it after some haggling (He finally took my original offer). The owner was too old to fire the beast anymore. Before purchasing the gun, I checked the barrel for use, looked for rust, and checked to see if any parts were missing. Shortly after I hit the ammo tables to collect my needed quantity of supply ammo, and 45-70 is really cheap to shoot if you use the lever revolution ammo I found. Lever Revolution by Hornady uses soft plastic tips that hyper expand ($25-30 a box of 20, 325 grain FTX). I also picked up some bear killer round from Remington and they are 405 grain SP ($35).

I went to gun range shortly to try my new Van Helsing canon. The target ammo was the Lever revolution version as they are cheaper to buy. The gun could not load a single one from the tube. I nearly panicked and getting the round out was as annoying as trying to pull a Lego
out of Cactus pit. My fingers were cut up. I am very upset at this point and gun club representative was a huge dick about me asking for tools to pull the round out. Another patron informed the problem is with the follower that pushes the round down the tube. The Lever Revolution bullet has a tip and causes the jam. I went home to try the Remington version and the weapon cycled flawlessly. A gun shop/smithing service I frequent quoted me $45 to fix the gun with an upgraded follower and after the upgrade; it cycled flawlessly with lever revolution flawlessly. Apparently this is a problem with Marlin lever action rifles that many don’t know about. The original follower was flat or rounded and the new one is concave.

I made the return trip to the Gun range and the gun was deadly accurate. At 100 yards with open sights, the rifle fires quarter inch high of a dime. This is one gun I have not killed any creatures with yet as it has
a specific purpose. Target practice is all it has seen and has never jammed since the new follower has been upgraded. Defend my ass during trips to the mountains is its specific purpose. I have no interest in hunting bears as they taste BAD. Pig hunting is more for the .308 or .223 green tip for me.
There are facts you need know about lever action rifles if you have not owned one. Firstly, you must cycle them fast. Slowly working the lever will cause jams. Aggressive strokes is paramount to reliably loading a round (insert bad joke here). Next, the rear sight is three parts. The ridged slide that the rear sight sites on can fall off if jarred or knocked of place. This will drastically effect accuracy as it sets the UP/DOWN bullet trajectory.

Just keep track of it and check on it every time before you go out to rely on or use it. Thirdly, don’t leave rounds in the tube for long periods of time as they will rust and create wear
on the tube spring. Clean the rounds every few months if this is a ready gun. Next, some lever actions have a secondary safety above the lever rest point that has to be depressed to fire, thus have a firm grip. Another issue is using scopes. Scopes set rather close on a lever action and can give you “Coon eyes” which is from the scope giving you a black eye from recoil. Please be careful. Lastly, the most important fact you must comply with is keeping the action clear of a round till ready to hunt or fire. Never leave a racked round in the chamber as checking the status of the rifle slowly can jam the weapon as another round is being readied for the chamber while checking. The hammer can be easy pulled back thus misfires can and will happen if you leave one in the chamber when at rest. Always work the lever action with the safety on (if available) when clearing the rifle for a ready reset.


Blackhawk S.O.L.A.G. HD w/Kevlar (green and black) $100 from manufacturer (paid $75 from opticsplanet.com).
[
attachment=3]Pic 4.JPG[/attachment]
Shooting with a glove is really nice as it protects your hand from cold weather or is buffer from thorny bushes where I live. You will find two selections in gloves: Nomex and Kevlar. Nomex is for dealing with suppressors as they get really hot. Nomex is also not abrasive resistant. Kevlar is abrasive and puncture resistant. I prefer Kevlar as it more useful to me in the area I live in. City life is great for Nomex as you may not see cacti or thorns as much in south Texas or the Hill Country of Texas. I took a shot in the dark and tried Blackhawk as I saw one at the gun show, but it was sized for the Hulk. Ordering online has bad issues as I found sizing myself was an extreme pain in the ass. The result of measuring revealed I am a small. Great. Now I share the same shame as the Burger King commercial actor with extremely small hands. OpticsPlanet took their sweet ass time getting the gloves to me in 3 weeks, but I saved $25. I
opened the box and stared at them for a minute as I prayed they would fit. Optics Planet must hire ex-DMV employees as their customer service leaves you with the need to see a psychologist for anger management. The gloves fit snug and both felt great. The hard knuckles are very strong and do not hurt your hand as they have excellent padding. The gloves secure to the wrist very strongly and no slip occurs.

Shooting with them is really helpful to my shots with auto pistols and rifles as my strength in hand is increased. I wish I had bought the black instead of the green, but at the time I was trying to get in the Texas Game Wardens. One issue with the gloves is the top soft material. It is pilling and catches burs. I have since seen all the gloves from multiple companies and they all have this issue, thus I don’t think you can get away from this
design flaw. Also, they are made in China. These are good mid grade equipment and I will still use them. If I find a pair of Oakley Gloves in Kevlar for decent price and size for “small hands”; the Blackhawks will be immediately replaced.

[Wraith223]

Nikon Action Zoom 10-22x50 Binoculars, Purchased new at Academy for $120 (on sale), regular price is $140-160.

My trips to the mountains and Yellowstone National Park required decent binoculars. I had tried these out at Bass Pro and they were affordable for amount of times I would actually use them. I have excellent vision as it stands, thus cheap, little binoculars are stupid to me. The zoom feature is really cool as it can help in heavy fog. Weird to say that but try it and you will know. I wish there was an upgrade for honey comb inserts to block glass shine, but they are for civilians. There is a no fault replace policy on the binoculars if you keep the receipt and paperwork inside. I have broke a Nikon scope before and they replaced it with an upgraded/newer version for the cost of shipping. It’s worth it.
The Binoculars come with a
nice padded case worth keeping. The recital covers are OK, but I don’t understand why the cover loops are not complete. I want to put a lanyard on them to keep them together better but you cant’t as the loops are not complete. WTF Nikon?

So far I enjoy having them, but they are heavy. My family uses two as we sometimes split up and each team needs a pair. One per group is always nice. I have not had any issues with them. Would I upgrade to a better model in the future? Yes, but only models that have honey comb cover upgrades. The other companies I prefer are Ziess, Leica, and Swarovski. Nikon is just fine for civilian or beginner use. I tried a cheap comparable pair of Bushnel and they literally fell apart from small amounts of UV exposure (sun light).

[redthirst]

"Van Helsing cannon" is a pretty accurate description. Nice review.

[Wraith223]

"Van Helsing cannon" is a pretty accurate description. Nice review.

Glad you liked it. I think it is a Van Helsing Cannon, but the best desription of one are the Drilling elephant rifles. There is movie called Trader Horn from 1931 with Harry Carey. They use rifles that scare me. Side by side rifles as those are exspensive. The bullets pulled out of their pockets make my 45-70 look like a .22. There is also animals on there I have never seen before and I used to help at a wild game ranch. There are death scenes on there that look real. The porter that is spiked by tribal members in Africa and the tribal member that fell in with the crocs had deaths consistent with....well witnessed deaths as scene on the movie.
The other movie deaths are obvious fakes but not the other 2.

Trader Horn (1931 only) should be required veiwing for hunters and men.