Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[Link]

why the fuck is suga still alive

[zemanjaski]

Sigh whatever. He fucked the game anyway.

Vote Suga

[( G_R )]

I told you that guy is scum. Going after him tomorrow.

[Link]

I still have a good feeling suga will flip red

not sure who your e talking about G_R...?

[Stardust]

Vote zemanjaski.

[imopen2]

Unvote

Vote: zem

You aren't making sense and you are bloodthirsty as fuck

[Manders]

Where did I withhold my vote?

I missed that you were still voting for Capatain Murphy. Sorry. With-holding reads on people for later is just stupid though. I noticed the more expirienced players do this, but it does nothing or is forgotten. It's a wasting typing really. Why say shit like that and let it go for nothing?

@Rez, I don't have time to read through Mafia wiki because my testing dates for DPD is on the 18th and work has me busy. I stop in read through and post some for pushing Fate vote. If i see something confusing; I will look it up on mafia wiki.

On Captain Murphy,
not sure I want to vote a guy who has left the game? I still want a response from him before the full lynch. If he is leaving the game in a "mod kill"; what are some theories on lynching someone else that we have on the scum list? Thats 2 positive points for town if two scum are removed. Void just wants to lynch one. Why not let him "expire" on his own? I see this as a rare oppertunity to let a known scum (doc hunter) "expire" and go after another scum target! Thoughts?

It's not fucking stupid to withhold reads/reasons and I'll tell you why right now.

Say player A does something as scum, but they are not aware of it. Player B is aware player A does it, and sees that player A is doing so in this game. If player A TELLS player B WHY he thinks he's scum, player A is just going to correct that particular quirk, thus ending player B's awesome ability to read player A.

Kinda the same in-game. If I see you doing something, like buddying/defending/etc and I
think it comes from a scum mindset, why the fuck would I want to TELL you about it? I'd rather you keep doing it so I can keep watching you and try to make associations.

Do you understand now?

Really, just whatever expectations you had about how a game was going to go, throw that shit out the fucking window, dude. Players have play-styles and no amount of bitching is going to change it. You're just going to end up pissing people off or making people ignore you because you rant and rave about completely irrelevant/stupid shit.

[zemanjaski]

Guys and girls is like to apologize for my earlier outburst. While I've been saying I think Suga is scum for some time my vote earlier was not made for in game reasons and was instead a result of boiling over frustration with Suga as a person. Honestly I would rather never have to speak to him again and I let my feelings override my play. Whatever frustration I have with him isn't helped by my actions.

Sorry again.

Unvote

[Stardust]

Yeah, my vote won't be moving. Deadline's in 3 days. You guys figure out if you want to join me in lynching zemanjaski or just lynch Suga. I don't care which, just get it done.

[( G_R )]

I still have a good feeling suga will flip red

not sure who your e talking about G_R...?

That was in reply to the question about since when I have thought that Suga is scum. I was supposed to quote an earlier post but I screwed it and said "screw it".

[( G_R )]

I'm fine with a zem lynch too. All this drama is either fake, or people think this is MageCraft.

[Wraith223]

Where did I withhold my vote?

I missed that you were still voting for Capatain Murphy. Sorry. With-holding reads on people for later is just stupid though. I noticed the more expirienced players do this, but it does nothing or is forgotten. It's a wasting typing really. Why say shit like that and let it go for nothing?

@Rez, I don't have time to read through Mafia wiki because my testing dates for DPD is on the 18th and
work has me busy. I stop in read through and post some for pushing Fate vote. If i see something confusing; I will look it up on mafia wiki.

On Captain Murphy, not sure I want to vote a guy who has left the game? I still want a response from him before the full lynch. If he is leaving the game in a "mod kill"; what are some theories on lynching someone else that we have on the scum list? Thats 2 positive points for town if two scum are removed. Void just wants to lynch one. Why not let him "expire" on his own? I see this as a rare oppertunity to let a known scum (doc hunter) "expire" and go after another scum target! Thoughts?

It's not fucking stupid to withhold reads/reasons and I'll tell you why right now.

Say player A does something as scum, but they are not aware of it. Player B is aware player A does it, and sees that player A is doing so in this game. If player A TELLS player B WHY he thinks he's scum, player A is just going to correct that
particular quirk, thus ending player B's awesome ability to read player A.

Kinda the same in-game. If I see you doing something, like buddying/defending/etc and I think it comes from a scum mindset, why the fuck would I want to TELL you about it? I'd rather you keep doing it so I can keep watching you and try to make associations.

Do you understand now?

Really, just whatever expectations you had about how a game was going to go, throw that shit out the fucking window, dude. Players have play-styles and no amount of bitching is going to change it. You're just going to end up pissing people off or making people ignore you because you rant and rave about completely irrelevant/stupid shit.

After what I just read from Zem; I fnd you are correct. Holy shit Zem! You really showed your real face. I can see why Manders was reserved with you. You and G_R are bloodthirsty. I am that hateful to recognizing Imopen2 correct call that you and G_R are throwing serious mud towards Suga. I
find Suga's play style irratating, but he served as a magnet for scum to attack. This has changed my view of the game.
New Scum Team,
G_R
Zem
Fate
Captain Murphy

UNVOTE, VOTE ZEM

[Wraith223]

edit- "I am not that hateful to refuse Imopen2's point that you and....."

[( G_R )]

Define bloodthirsty.

[Wraith223]

@G_R, Wanting to lynch a player with little or no reason beyond the following: Lurking, Low content posting, and considered useless. Another area of Bloodthirsty could be voting with extreme prejudice for any one the "leader' says to (see Iso in Theros game).

[Wraith223]

Why do I get the feeling that G_R is priming Ze to go nuts and rage. Notice that Void voted G_R and shortly after; Zem gets primed by G_R with the Panda picture crap. Zem is very easy to prime for rage. I find the Void vote is a cover move to keep their team somewhat neutral in the emotional train Zem creates.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS!
It's a typical double con. Get Zem raged and targeted for a lynch and keep looking like the friend of town.

UNVOTE, Vote G_R

Zem is still aggresive and that's is his M.O.. G_R seems to be acting different.

[( G_R )]

@G_R, Wanting to lynch a player with little or no reason beyond the following: Lurking, Low content posting, and considered useless. Another area of Bloodthirsty could be voting with extreme prejudice for any one the "leader' says to (see Iso in Theros game).

By this very definition I'm not bloodthirsty.

You see, I have had Suga on my scum list since D1. I voted for him D1 and I stood by my vote today in light of further actions that he took. Have you tried looking at Suga posts? I don't give a crap about his lurking. It's his posting I'm interested in. I look for reasons that make him town and I just don't see them. I even have reasons to believe
that there's a scenario where Fate's WIFOM claim can come from a town mindset. But for Suga?. Uh-uh.

[( G_R )]

[quote="Wraith223 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:58 pmG_R seems to be acting different.[/quote]
This is true and I'll tell you why. I get pissed at people talking shit about the site. If they're such "good" players elsewhere, so be it, but they can take their whining elsewhere. It's faggotry.

[( G_R )]

*fix quote in your heads

[Wraith223]

You are not that bloodthirsty, but conniving. I was to in shock from Zem to notice that at first. I don't care if you voted him earlier cause it could be considered a set up for later play. Seems really easy to set 3 idiot votes to get 2 nightkills a target lynched.
Freedom, Suga, Zem, and Captain Murphy being the easy targets for lynching.
There is a major play being made here by both scum teams here. Stardust and oddly enough G_R are pushing the votes or reads, thus I have severe distrust of them.
We all know Zem hates or can't stand Suga from normal forums, thus Zem's outburts is nothing new.

Imopen2 and Manders Thoughts on my reads of G_R and Stardust? I am a huge jerk sometimes (ok, all the time), but I want town to win!

[( G_R )]

OK then.

[imopen2]

I'm always suspicious of stardust.

At first I thought G_R was more likely scum between him and Zem but the fact that he has been on suga for a while helps his case in my mind.

I really hate the way Zem was acting the last couple pages. Saying suga was scum but not voting him, then saying he would vote him, then saying he had withheld his vote, then voting...

Not sure if I believe it is because of their childish Internet drama but idk how I would figure that out.


Still down to lynch void...lynching Zem is ok with me too for now.

[Wraith223]

@Imopen2, Ok, good thoughts, but are you curious that picking on Suga early game is a nice set up for mid game attack stratagy? Zem has serious drama with Suga elsewhere. I am good with Void vote as well, but I want to bust the mover/shaker that is G_R. Void seems like assistent.

[imopen2]

Yes, it is possible that he set this up from earlier an is taking advantage now, but he also might just have felt suga was scum and still does.

I don't think there is enough evidence to say G_R is scum.

Maybe I should look at his posts tho

[zemanjaski]

Like I said, yesterday was me in a blind fury. I've gotten too emotional in this game and I can't think straight. For now ill abstain and try to clear my head before deadline.

Will answer any questions.

[( G_R )]

@Imopen2, Ok, good thoughts, but are you curious that picking on Suga early game is a nice set up for mid game attack stratagy? Zem has serious drama with Suga elsewhere. I am good with Void vote as well, but I want to bust the mover/shaker that is G_R. Void seems like assistent.

This elsewhere must be somewhere I don't go. In the only place I can think of where I interact with both outside of this game, this drama is not evident. So, taking your word for it, Zem is not doing this on purpose. Fine. Is Suga also this whiny elsewhere? Do you consider this frustration of his to be legitimate?

[Wraith223]

@Imopen2, Ok, good thoughts, but are you curious that picking on Suga early game is a nice set up for mid game attack stratagy? Zem has serious drama with Suga elsewhere. I am good with Void vote as well, but I want to bust the mover/shaker that is G_R. Void seems like assistent.

This elsewhere must be somewhere I don't go. In the only place I can think of where I interact with both outside of this game, this drama is not evident. So, taking your word for it, Zem is not doing this on purpose. Fine. Is Suga also this whiny elsewhere? Do you consider this frustration of his to be legitimate?[
/quote]

On Fires of Salvation, They get heated sometimes, but Katescraft is doing Suga's job so far. Suga is not that whiny in my opinion, but sarcastic/dry humered. Yes, Zem expects people to swoon him or except everything he says as gospal. Suga plays on this is just or is just the opposite of Zem in charactor causing friction.This just another distraction as Zem fairly made it clear that he didn't want Suga anywhere in the same thread/forum as Zem. Nothing new.

Scum are definately riding this wave on Zem as the did with Freedom. That is why I recalled my vote as emotional voting is the scum way. I am willing to settle differences with Imopen2 to not screw town.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 18!
Better put your fingers back to the keys

Stardust (0)
zemanjaski (3) - DroppinSuga, Stardust, imopen2
Void (0)
Wraith223 (0)
Fate (0)
Captain Murphy (1) - Manders
DroppinSuga (3) - ( G_R ), rezombad, Fate
Manders (0)
rezombad (0)
(G_R) (2) - Void, Wraith223
imopen2 (0)

Not Voting (1) - Captain Murphy, zemanjaski

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is: 14 February, 2014 11:59PM EST

@Mod/Kaz, If Captain Murphy "expires"; does that start a new day or does he just dissapear with role identified?

[color=purple:
jjw4glu9]Considering he'll "expire" when the Day ends without a replacement...the Day ends. Night will still occur, etc.[/color]

---


There's been a seriously high concentration of vitriol in this game and it's beginning to get silly. Attack the play, not the person. If you have serious grievances that you simply must vocalize: do it post game, kay? Let's try to keep some semblance of civility here.

Also, replacement possibly found. Stay tuned?

(If replacement is found, deadline shall be extended - just a heads up.)

[imopen2]

Sorry daddy

[Kazekirimaru]

RedNihilist replaces Captain Murphy!

Deadline is extended.

Deadline is: 16 February, 2014 11:59PM EST

[zemanjaski]

Guess I will have time for a re-read this weekend, yay

[( G_R )]

Cool. Which team are you Nihilist?

[RedNihilist]

Hi there guys, nice to meet you!
It will be fun to read 22 pages of things so please be patient with me - it's my first time playing as a replacement...

Cool. Which team are you Nihilist?

.. it's like my third time playing as an unpowered townie, though.

[imopen2]

There are some pretty fun back and forths from pages 10-18 if you like mudslinging and butthurt

[Wraith223]

Hello Red, You stepped in a charactor spot that tried to Doc Hunt early game.

[Stardust]

Two day extension? That's good. More time for you guys to do nothing.

Red, looking forward to your read through. Make sure you stay active this game, alright? You've got good thoughts and I want to hear them.

Everyone else, you should probably be voting for one of Suga or zemanjaski.

[RedNihilist]

I'll try to post something tomorrow morning (it's ~00.50 CET right now).

For now, I'll start by saying that if given the choice between only Z and Suga I'll probably hammer the latter for his auto-voting madness, but I've got the feeling they're both leaning town.
The zemrage is probably an extension of his feelings for Suga outside the game, while I feel like that JumpinSuga is being consistent with his way of playing, which is scummy as hell but as long as it comes from him...

[Wraith223]

After re-reading the thread and long thought, I think stardust is serious scum. I will try very hard to make this clear as possible.
1. Stardust claims to be the doc and wants to be the doc from the beginning of the game.
2. No town wants to discuss the doc cause it's bad news for town.
3. Claiming the doc could be a joke, but why didn't scum kill stardust the first night? Why did stardust say his plan worked?
This has been bothering me for a long time. Here is my call.
1. Stardust claims doc.
2. Deep seated mental cues say don't challenge this and peruse cause it's bad news for town.
3. Stardust now has the swing role of pushing weak players towards a vote cause he is the unchallenged doc that no one cam confirm.
4. Stardust has pretty much avoided most votes when hammer time came, but is generally ok with any vote except imopen2.
5. Stardust and imopen2 seem to be playing a little dance to keep us
from becoming suspicious.
I could be dead wrong, but the 2 unconfirmed claims of doc and stardust's plan working are easy to be accepted or ignored. Those claims bother me and I find stardust strip onager scum than imopen2 cause of this. Lies like these are easy to sell to the idgets and it does not help town. Town can only benefit from known facts to act on, not unconfirmed claims.
Meanders is right. We should not trust the Canadian. Stardust in DTR mafia was scum hunting, but I find in this game; he is just directing us to any target.
Please consider my thoughts and decide whether you want a player pushing votes that makes unconfirmed claims of self role and completed jobs?
UNVOTE, VOTE STARDUST

[Wraith223]

My iPad cut out the play stardust is making.
1. Fake doc to get compliance and trust.
2. Push any vote not on his team.
3. Let the other team kill a town player and kill no one.
4. Strengthen doc claim by saying a plan worked.
5. 2 town are down.
6. Any scum on the other side killed are a bonus, but knocking off other town is paramount for them to win late game with 2 players still alive.
7. Town is forced to pick a scum team to go with to lynch scum in late game. Town has been doing nothing but infight and ignored Stardust's unconfirmed claims. Thus stardust plan is working better than imagined in my opinion.
This is a brilliant play if that is what is going on.

[Manders]

So, I'm caught up. A few things to say:

1) Unvote and welcome, red!
2) When I said not to trust the Canadian, that was a joke. Stop using it as evidence.
3) I'm about 80% sure GR and Stardust are town.
4) If I have to choose between Suga and Zem, I choose Zem. Suga's self-vote, while TERRIBLE for town, read as completely sincere. Zem's been bloodthirsty and pinging mu scumdar since Yesterday.
5) I have no idea why you guys believe Wraith is town. He's absolutely willing to lynch ANYONE and has been since the game started. He's ranting and raving about people being bloodthirsty (btw, your definition of that word was incorrect), but I've seen his vote hop more than anyone's. He's always asking how something someone else does helps town, but he himself has done nothing to help town. Read him again, guys. He's 100% in the backseat waiting to see
what happens, then jumping once something does happen so ferociously so as to make it seem, in our minds, that he's the one that thought of that in the first place.

Regardless, I don't have time to make a case on Wraith, so, unfortunately, he will have to wait. Again. Le sigh.

OOG: I'm hoping to get WiFi at the house soon. Once that happens, I'll be able to post more often using my tablet and life will be better.