[BNG] Flame-Wreathed Phoenix & Mogis, God of Slaughter

[Kaitscralt]

yes but being good in standard makes a card good. we are talking about standard. there is no vacuum.

[Kaitscralt]

you're just trying to speak about cards in a way which you can never be wrong

make some definitive statements

[zemanjaski]

I didn't say the card was bad

edit. "the card" = fanatic of mogis

[zemanjaski]

"Fanatic of Mogis is a good magic card in standard. It is the best way to convert the devotion resource and other synergies into an advantage currently available to a Red Devotion deck".

[zemanjaski]

IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

[zemanjaski]

DOES THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY?

[Kaitscralt]

you have blatantly said cards in the best decks in standard aren't good, because tier one play apparently is not how you judge cards

"the card is not good"

"i never said the card was bad!"

[Kaitscralt]

"Fanatic of Mogis is a good magic card in standard. It is the best way to convert the devotion resource and other synergies into an advantage currently available to a Red Devotion deck".

it's a start

[zemanjaski]

See I think there's a difference between "good" and "best available".

[Kaitscralt]

then maybe 2 cards in standard are ever good at any time by your strange logic

[Pendulum]

See I think there's a difference between "good" and "best available".

What would that difference be?
See, I'm interpreting the meta as radically different from the last one; support cards (i.e. cards that allow you gain incremental advantage) got some boosts in BNG to an already strong base of support cards, and game-winning cards (cards with the express purpose of winning the game, such as Phoenix and Fanatic) are waffling in the face of that... but as to whether or not that's what you're getting at as well is playing Watson to your Holmes.

Then again, while typing the above I just realized everyone should probably just be playing The Rock.

[LP, of the Fires]

You're not actually disagreeing with me.

Playing is synonymous for "good". The other 4 drops would make the deck less good; hence Fanatic of Mogis is the best 4 drop in that shell. It is the sum of all the moving parts that make the deck good, not that 1 card.

But your original statement is kind of bullshit. You're saying fanatic isn't good when it's the backbone of 1 tier 1 deck and earlier in the season made another tier 1 archetype(agro devotion red).

Just because the card isn't good in the deck you wanted to play doesn't make the card "not good", it makes the card "not good in your deck" which is completely different and incredibly misleading unless otherwise stated as such.

[zemanjaski]

It really isn't.

It's a card that is good because of other cards in the meta. That's fine, that means it is a good card right now. There are cards that are good independent of other cards; Fanatic of Mogis is not one of those. That's the distinction. You're overreaching; it has nothing to do with any deck that I have played this season (PyroRed and UW Control mostly).

[Pendulum]

But... I mean yeah it's no good on it's own, it's got devotion. Nobody's playing this because it does a good Hill Giant impression, they're playing it because primarily it's a good piece to interweave with the other cards in their deck, and secondarily because it scores high as a variable threat. So when you say it doesn't stand on its own, I'm interpreting that as a knock at the whole deck, and I have no choice but to do so: the strength of the ability is inextricably tied to the other cards it feeds off of, in the same way that, say, Sensei's Divining Top isn't restrictively annoying to play against without a strategy that can incorporate the Top's abilities. What's confusing is that this is all so mindlessly obvious that it's weird to hear it coming from Z, and I at least think there's more at work there than I'm catching on to.

[Kaitscralt]

apparently it has to be a legacy caliber card to be good to zem, who is hereby called the hoover zem

[iamabadman]

this card sucks. i'll trade mine away

[Midnight_v]

On a different track... Mogis... maybe he can be a wincon in a B/R/x deck, like burn or control or something. . . So I guess Dega.

Since there is such a strong removal set, he could be really good in the right shell.

[Thrillho]

Scoreboard so far is me 2 redthirsty 1.

[Thrillho]

If I'm that dumb what does that make you

[Thrillho]

Thirsty as shit

[Thrillho]

[TubeHunter]

[imopen2]

you've been a great help

[redthirst]

"Card is okay and not really comparable to Fanatic of Mogis" is apparently the same as "Card is amazing and will see lots of tournament play its first couple of weeks in Standard."

You continue to understand posts as well as you do cards.

[redthirst]

And to be clear, I don't think you're dumb because I don't agree with you about cards, I think you're fucking stupid because of how you conduct yourself in general.