R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

[zemanjaski]

No one plays Fiendslayer Paladin at my level; they're all on Archangel of Thune which I'm well set up against.

You can juggle a Fiendslayer with sac. effects if need be.

[windstrider]

I thought as much.

The main point I can see against Chandra is her casting cost. With Pain Seer, that's four damage in a deck that already can do a lot of damage to itself. Plus with 22 land, she'd likely be the only thing you could cast that turn, and that could be a serious loss of tempo in a deck that wants to be casting multiple spells per turn.

[zemanjaski]

I had her in the list originally. Trying Tymaret instead; I don't think she's bad at all - quite strong with Pain Seer and Phoenix obviously.

Listing creatures in cmc cost order is no bueno.

[Valdarith]

I only prefer order by cmc because it helps visualize the curve of your spells. But I see you prefer alphabetical order...except when it comes to lands.

[Guttler]

Zemanjaski sent me that deck list on Wednesday. I was very impressed by the initial main deck, it seemed to have so much synergy. I spent all day Thursday and Friday harassing the the owner of my LGS to make sure he had the cards I was missing and sleeved up Rakdos Suicide for FNM last night.

My deck was 59 of the 60, with the one card being different was that instead of Barrage of Expendables I played 1 ofChandra, Pyromaster.

I ended up going 3-0-2, and making top 8.

Pretournament test game. vs R/G Monsters with a black splash. The splashed card was Vraska's in the main deck and also to allow for flesh/blood to be fused. He showed me he had Golgari Charms in the board but we only played game 1 matches. In game 1 he takes so shots at me with creatures like BTE and Xenegos Satyrs. I am able to remove them and am clocking him out with a phoenix
and a YP. He slams a Polokranos that I don't have removal for and manages to monstrous it for 3 and swing to bring me to but 2, but I am able to finish him off with the crack back. No sideboarding, in game 2. He plops down an early Sylvan Carytid and I plop down an early pain seer. Pain seer continues to attack into his wall and I take 9 points of self inflicted damage from it before he answers it. He doesn't get fatties right away and tries an aggro plan with Xenegos tokens and BTEs again. I keep attacking him with Pain Seer and when he blocks with an X/2, I'll use a shock or other burn before damage. My aggro plan for this match was to ride a Chandra's Phoenix to victory. He played a Scavenging Ooze when I had one in the grave yard, but I had to burn to recur it before he could exile it. The final turn of the game focused around me having Tyramet and Chandra's Phoenix in play, and a hand of Magma Jet; Lightning Strike and him at 9 life. The play would be sac phoenix to Tyramet, end to turn magma jet,
get back phoenix, play phoenix and attack and then then bolt. I used scry to set up my draw as a 2nd lightning strike to really burn him out, but that's a good demonstration of the lines of play this deck can have.

Here was the thrown together sideboard that I used:

[deck]
2 Dreadbore
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Doom Blade
4 Skullcrack
1 Ultimate Price
[/deck]

DO NOT COPY THIS SIDEBOARD, you will lose.

I really did not like this board, I feel it could be much better but I jammed it with removal to handle cards that I perceived to be threats in the undefined metagame.

Match 1 vs White Weenie. This deck is pretty much exactly like the white weenie boros aggro deck, except there was no red splash for Boros Charm.

Game 1. He gets a very fast start with Soldier of the Pantheon that has me reeling. I manage to stabilize, but at a single digit life total. We are both in top deck mode and I have YP, Necromancer and Tyrammet out, and 2 Chandra's Phoenix,
one in play and 1 in the yard. he has a spear of Heliod and a Judges Familiar and 2 dorks. Neither of us can really swing. I get the brilliant idea that even though I don't have a burn spell in hand, I can just attack into him with the Phoenix and, he will spear it then I sac it to Tyrammet for a 4 point swing, which lets me alpha him next turn and then sac my entire team for 16 damage. It turns out that my math was not right and I could only do 15 in a no block situation. I never get the burn to recur my Phoenixe's and he clocks me out with the 2/2 Judge's Familiar.

In this match I sideboarded like this:
-1 Tyrammet
-4 Thoughtsieze
-1 Ultimate Price

+2 Breadbore
+2 Doom Blade
+2 Mizzium Mortars.

Game 2 is pretty much how the match is supposed to go. I'm on the play and can start off with creatures and removal to break up his battalion and slowly grind out the win. Once again I find myself clocking him from 20 to 12 with a Chandra's Phoenix. The final turns come down to me alphaing him
thinking that I'll chip away his board by forcing blocks. He decides not to and cracks me back for 6 to send me to 5. Th game ends unceremoniously when I just untap and attack again.

Game 3, He on the play and gets another agressive 1 drop start. I play a ton of removal and manage to stabilize at 12 life. He is out of gas. His only permanents in play are 2 plains and a vault. He hits me with a Mutavualt to drop me to 10. On my turn I cast a Xantrid Necromancer. He once again animates the Mutavualt and attacks with it, which I happily block. He then realizes that he can't save it with BtE, so I get a zombie vs his board of only plains. I cast a 2nd Xantrid and then beat him down from 21 with just a pair of 2/2's. He lamented the decision to attack with the Mutavualt, revealing that his hand contained Spear of Heliod and Banisher Priest and he never draw a 3rd land. Play mistakes are killer.

Round 2 vs U/W control.

I start off game 1 with temple into turn 2 Pain Seer. He plays a second land and
passes. On turn 3, I play a thoughtsieze on him and he reveals a hand of plains, hallowed fountain, temple, mutavault, syncopate, divination, and Elspeth. I take Divination and then play a blood crypt untapped and jam a second Thoughseize taking Elspeth. So I'm at 14 from self inflicted damage and I attack with seer. He does nothing on turn 3 and I flip land and draw a card, playing my 4th land and a second pain seer. He taps out for Jace and I play a Xantrid Necromancer and kill his Jace and hit for 2 with both pain seers. He is forced to Dsphere Necromancer my untap from both sears reveals Necromancer and seer #3, I fall to 5 life all self inflicted. The final turn sees me with Tyramet and 3 blood seers in play, only of which 2 can attack. I crack in with both seers. He sphinxes for 3 but falls to 7. At the end of his turn, I sac one of the tapped seers so deal 2, I didn't want to kill myself with 2 unlucky reveals. The creatures manage to finish him off.

Sideboard:
-4 shock
-2 Ultimate Price
-1
Magma Jet

+4 Skull Crack
+1 Tyramet
+2 Dreadbore.

Game 2 is much closer. I get an early thoughtseize and he revels a hand of 3 Islands, Plains, Jace, and Celestial Purge. I take Jace and run out a Chandra's Phoenix into his purge then use burn to get it back and start clocking him with it. He casts Sphinx Rev for 1 and I drop a Tyramet. I get him down to 9, but he Verdicts. I burn him to recur the phoenix and take him to 7. He Revs back up to 11. I knock him to 9. but he plays Jace and -2's to draw. I split off a Last Breath in the solo pile and he takes that. When I Dreadbore Jace andswing in with Phoenix he plays Last Breath, but I respond buy sacing it to my Tyramet in the graveyard to recur him. He is still at 9. I have 2 Lightning Strike in hand and he a temple for me revels a 3rd one on top. I play 1 Strike on him, he Dissolves. I play a 2nd which revolves and get's me back phoneix. He is at 6 and I draw the Strike. He syncopates my Phoenix when I try to cast it and I strike him again to
knock him down to 3. I also have a Skull Crack in hand and the final turn goes. I have 4 open mana. He casts Sphinx Rev for 5, tapping 8 land, he leaves 3 open. I have to skull crack here, so I do and he revels that his counterspell was Syncopate, which doesn't work because I had 2 open mana.

The 3rd round vs GW Aggro.

This was the one match up I was looking forward to. Back when I played PyroRed, this was a hard match up. I pretty much had to hit multiple Chined to the Rocks or lose. In game 1 I start things off with Thoughtsieze and rip a Fleecemane, leaving him with a hand of 2 Temple of Plenty, Forest, and Loxodon Smiter. He had a turn 1 Soldier of the Pantheon, but the amount of removal is just so high. I was able to deal with every threat and slowly grind him out with bears.

Sideboard:
-4 Shock
-4 Magma jet
+3 Lifebane Zombie
+1 Ultimate Price
+2 Doom Blade
+2 Dreadbore

I decided to leave in Thoughtsieze because I felt the ability to wreck a hand with it plus Lifebane Zombie would be
good against GW, especially since you can take tricks like Selesnya Charm and Rootborn Defenses.

This would be a critical error. In game 2, my oppoent started off with a turn 1 Experiment One, then his turn 2 was Experiment One and Soldier of the Pantheon. I couldn't handle the extremely quick aggressive draw and quickly folded.

For game three; I switched my board, taking out 4 Thoughsieze and putting 4Shock back in the deck. he game played out much like the first. I deal with all his early creatues. Then he plays an Ajani, which I just kill by attacking it with Xantrid Necromancer and Chandra's Phoenix. He manages to crack me for 8 in one attack with a 3/3 Voice token and a 5/5 wurm. I fall to 11, and kill his voice token with a shock. I attack in with all my creatures, one of which is a Blood Seer to take him to 2 from 6. He has a 5/5 Wurm and if he top decks Ajani there is a strong possibility i'll die to my own Pain Seer, he doesn't draw his out and I take game 3.


3-0, good start.

In
round 4 and 5 I intentionally draw. Normally, I'd of liked to just play test games vs my opponents in these rounds which I could write about here. What ends up happening is that my round 4 opponent is let me just say, not the type of person you want to play a game of magic with unless you absolutely have to, so I just spend the round spectating the on going matches. In round 5, I get another shot; but my brother's roommate got off work and shows up during round 4, after the round 5 pairings go out I draw, we chatting about Hearthstone (which I don't even play) and the new Bant deck which he wants to make for Monday Night Magic. Time flies and it's top 8 before I could get some good testing in.

In my top 8 match. I get paired against my round 5 opponent. I sat next to him earlier, so I know he is playing a Dega deck, but the only card I'm certain he has is Blind Obedience, which he used to destroy an AIR player earlier.

Top 8

This match was abysmal. The R/x
Midrange decks have always been good against PyroRed decks. I play creatures like YP and Phoenix only for them to get Chained to the Rocks. Anger of the Gods wrecks my Xantrid Necromancer board positions. He won game 1 by playing a Blood Baron, which forced me to side in Mizzium Mortars and other terror effects which I knew I needed for Desecration Demons. There isn't really much to say. Dega is just so good vs Aggro, especially when we aren't extremely extremely fast.

Some thoughts on Rakdos Suicide going forward:
1. Mutavualt is a human, which gives it good synergy with Xantrid Necromancer.
2. Burn might be a good plan. With 12 burn main deck and the possibility of brining in both Skullcrack and Toil//Trouble from the sideboard makes a transformational strategy something to think about.
3. I think Zemanjaski may be onto something with Barrage of Expendables. There are quite a few X/1's in the format that can be handles easily by it.
4. Dark Prophecy might be worth consideration, even at it's
prohibitive mana cost.
5. I need to figure out a good sideboard.

[windstrider]

[card]Altar's Reap[/card] is still around. That seems like a good choice for the deck with Phoenix, Pyromancer, and Necromancer.

[Valdarith]

Probably too cute, but something to keep in mind. The deck already generates so much value that it's likely overkill.

[Tanro]

@Tanro what's your list looking like? (if you don't mind sharing, of course)

Just took my Dos Rakis brew I put together to my FNM 5-0 regular tournament play. Made top 8, got knocked out in the semi-finals by a WUG mana ramp control. Just couldn't find the 4th land in time postboard. Was holding 2 slaughter games and sitting at 3 land. However, I will say this deck slaughters traditional control, mono U devotion, and B devotion.

[deck]Creatures (20)
4x Rakdos Cacker
4x Firedrinker Satyr
3x Young Pyromancer
4x Spike Jester
3x Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch
3x Desecration Demon

Removal/Burn (11)
4 Magma Jet
n4 Doomblade
3 Lightning Strike

Otherstuff (5)
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
3x Mindsparker
4x Dreadbore
3x Slaugher games
1x Desecration Demon
3x Electrickery
1x Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

SB Plan
mono U
- 4 Firedrinker, -1 Whip, -1 Hammer, -3 Young Pyro, +3 Mindsparker, +3 Electrickery, +2 Slaughter Games, +1 Mizzium Mortars.
Due to the amount of flyers, and Thassa's unblockable ability, token chump blockers suck here. You need hard and fast removal. Electrickery blows up master tokens, birds, and unevolved raptors. Mortars for late game board wipe, mindsparker to punish those nasty counterspells, and wierd blue removal. Slaughter games seals the deal if played turn 4 on master.

Esper, American, Azorius, WUG Control
-4 doomblade, -3 Lightning Strike, -2 Demon, -1 Satyr, -2 Cackler, +4 Dreadbore, +3 Mind Sparker, +3 Elecktrickery, +2 Slaughtergames
So with this one, you want the dreadbore to kill walkers. Strikes don't do you much good
here either. Magma jet will kill a rolled down jace, but elspeth will be out of range
of 1-1 without downfall or dreadbore. Demons are fun but still your gonna be able to win with your smaller creatures, burn and maybe a chandra ulti. Leave 1 just because it is a pretty quick clock. Mind sparker... You want it. It punishes every counterspell, every sphinx rev, every boardwipe. Elecktrickery, hoses elspeth tokens. Slaughtergames, hoses aetherling, sphinx rev. You decide which you fear more.

Red deck
Bring in the extra demon. Get rid of your 1 drops for removal. Try and get a pyro out, then removal + token for value. Chump block, and then get exava and demons out. Bring in electrickery for those bte crap some creatures on the board decks, It wont kill bte but it hoses all those x/1s . Not terrible against young pyro decks either.

Mono black.
-4 Doomblade +4 Dreadbore -1 Firedrinker +1 mizzium mortars
Consider bringing in the mindsparkers too. You can't block them but you can attack through them
with impunity. This thing also attacks through nightveil with impunity. Attacking through a demon with a bolt or mizzium in hand is fun as well. However most of the Mono black in my LGS don't run mana 1-3 mana creatures instead they focus on more of a mid range strategy. So I tend to just go race and removal. This deck has a lot of edge against Mono B. If you are struggling with it, consider running dark betrayal sideboard and bringing it in for magma jet. You loose the scry but it kills everything they have.


Match 1 2-1 RU pile of kitchen table aggro/planeswalkers/burn.
Game 1 easily killed him, T1 Cackler, T2 Spike Jester, T3 Spike jester T4 win
Game 2 Slow hand, T2 Jester, T3 Jester, Then he resolved a chandra, wiped out my jesters, stabilzed @ 6. I missplayed by removing creatures instead of burning him out. He ultimated chandra for win.
Game 3 T1 Cackler, T2 Jester, T3 Hammer, t4 Hasted Demon, T5 Hammer token, swing in for win.

Match 2 2-0 Ub Devotion. Seriously not a problem.
Game 1
Just squashed him with cackler -> jester, removal removal removal.
Game 3 Cackler -> Jester, Removal, Slaughter games on Master of Waves, Removal, whip, removal, demon Win

Match 3 U Devotion 2-1
Match 1 No relevant Master removal showed up. Opponent drop 3 consective masters of waves on turn 5-6-7 for the blowout.
Match 2 Raced him with cacklers, removal, jesters. Lost 0 life.
Match 3 Was heated, ultimatly the black removal, demon and whip overpowered him.

Match 4 RDW 2-0
Game 1 cacklers and jesters raced him faster, had more removal.
Game 2 Young peezey and friends stalled the board state until I was able to stabilze at 3 life, nearly lost it to burn. Sadly he only had shock. Resolved 2 demons in a row, win.

Match 5 Esper control. 2-0
Game 1 He keeps a 1 land, 2 aetherling 2 Elspeth hand. Nothing doing it. Racked him down in 4 turns.
Game 2 Decent hand for him. Nut draw for me. Cackler -> Burn -> Mindsparker -> Mindsparker -> Demon.

Playoffs:
Match 1
Same RDW
from above. Same outcome 2-0

Match 2 WUG Mana Ramp control 0-2
Game 1 Raced him down to 4, wiped the board, countered all my burn, resolved an aetherling. I scooped 2nd turn after that.
Game 2 Good hand, crap draw. Lost all my creatures to d-spheres (3 of them) never saw 4 lands. Couldn't slaughter games the aetherling. Lost it. Had him down in the single digits again though.

I went for 8 1-drops thinking that Drown in Sorrow and friends will be mostly sideboard, so not relevant in G1

Looks like it'd be good for the control matchup, but I'd be worried about the green matchup (T2 Caryatid, T3 Polukranos) and the GW Aggro matchup with the lack of more removal / burn.

^ Here was the 1st incarnation of my list. I have made some updates :

[deck]
Creatures (23)
4x Rakdos Cacker
2x Firedrinker Satyr
3x Pack Rat
4x Spike Jester
3x Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch
4x Desecration Demon
3x Stormbreath Dragon

Instants Sorceries (11)
3 Magma Jet
3 Ultimate Price
4 Lightning Strike
1 Doom Blade


Otherstuff (2)
2 Whip of Erebos

Land Base (23)
4 Rakdos Guildgate (replace with scrylands)
4 Blood Crypt
7 Swamp
8 Mountain

Sideboard
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Dreadbore
3x Thoughseize
2x Electrickery
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Mindsparker
[/deck]

I would really like to test mogis, and rakdos return. Also considering sire of insanity sideboard instead of mindsparker. I am also holding on to my slaughter games. It may be going back in.

[Jasper]

---

This is what I'm taking to FNM tomorrow, and possibly to the IQ later this month. I've read this entire thread twice, and I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, just need to pick up a couple things to make it better. As always, any help/critique is most appreciated. Don't be afraid to be straightforward or rude, as I'm here to learn, not to argue.

[deck=Jasper's FNM]Creatures 22
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix

Spells 12
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dreadbore
2 Ultimate Price

Thighs 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land 24
4 Blood Crypt
2 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
12
Mountain
5 Swamp
[/deck]

This is from just what I have right now, but there is the chance that I'll be able to trade for more Temple of Malice and Flame-Wreathed Phoenix before FNM starts. I'm mainly wondering about the mana-base, as I suck at that. I'm also not really sold on the lone Tymaret, but I also really don't like top decking Cacklers later either, and the Burger King alleviates some of that pain. I don't own any Stormbreath Dragon, but I do own 2 Desecration Demon and 2 Pack Rat. This just seemed too [mana]rr[/mana] for me to run demons, and Pack Rat didn't seem like a good fit either.

Sideboard is going to be some number of the following:

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

1-2 Whip seem like auto-includes. 3 Dark Betrayals is a nice number. 2 Doom Blade. 1 Toil // Trouble. 2-3 Skullcrack. I like 3 Rakdos Keyrune against aggro, but I already have a lot of spot removal. Rakdos Charm is mostly for blowing up Whip and Spear. I suppose that it's mostly a matter of my local meta.


I know this is a competitive section, but I felt like this was the best place to ask questions. MTGS has been really letting me down lately. I'd love to get some feedback before I head into my FNM tomorrow, and I'll come back with some game reports if anyone would want to read them.

I went with the list as I originally laid it out. I didn't have a chance to check the thread before I was already at my FNM, but the reason I ran FWP was to take advantage of it with Exava. I'll start this off by saying that FWP did absolutely nothing to help me in any of my games, and I'm pretty sure I wont be using it in any decks in the
future besides Red Devotion and possibly the Flyers list being tested.

Also, it should be of note that I suck at writing these, and I was playing after being awake for 31 hours straight.

Set 1: Maze's end fog with Kiora
Game 1: I eventually lose as he builds his gates up and gains life.
Game 2: SB in 3 Skullcrack, 1 Toil / Trouble and burn. Beat and burn, nothing really notable.
Game 3: This ends explosively, with me ulting Chandra and casting 3 copies of Trouble with him holding 7 cards in hand. He fogs, I Skullcrack. He manages to play a bunch of cards out of his hand to lower the Trouble damage enough to survive, but I burned him for the last couple points next turn.
Wow, such solitaire. So skill. It looks fun to play, but playing against it is super lame.

Set 2: The mirror. His deck is based around Desecration Demon, Stormbreath Dragon, and Underworld Cerberus with a couple early ground d00ds and Thoughtseize.
Game 1: My deck is simply faster, and I beat him down without seeing much.
Game
2: I SB in 3 Keyrunes, 3 Dark Betrayal, 2 Whips, and pull my Cacklers, 2 Doom Blade, and 2 of something else. Looking back, this was pretty dumb of me. I get nothing going and get land screwed.
Game 3: Deck stays the same as last game. I get Keyrunes blocking. Betrayal his Desecration Demon. Drop my Whip and he can't deal with my Chandras Phoenix or my Exava. He plays Stormbreath and another Desecration Demon, which is DB'ed. I drop a Chandra Pyromaster and start using her +0 looking for a Dreadbore to remove this Stormbreath. A combination of burn and combat gets him down to 4, with him being dead next turn. His Stormbreath is still in, and he topdecks a Whip. I never find that stupid Dreadbore and I get beaten to death by bigger flyers as his life total rises.
I honestly need to re-read that article about deciding who is the beatdown. I've been playing for around a month and it showed.

Set 3: Hes playing some kind of Black/Blue deck with creatures and enchantments based around stuff in my
graveyard. Nighthowler and friends.
Game 1: He gets mana flooded. Nothing notable.
Game 2: I get mana screwed. He mills and beats me to death with 2 10/10 creatures. Their power was based around something to do with my graveyard.
Game 3: He gets boned by his own lands again.
He was an older gentleman, and his deck looked really fun and inexpensive.

Set 4: Split, and play for the extra pack. He's running the exact deck I played the last 3 FNM's, Tom Ross 21 Sligh. The only thing to say here is that his deck is blazing fast and I couldn't stabilize in either of the games we played. I tried to play the more controllish role but yeah, lost in 2.


Final thoughts:
I'm a huge noob. Not having access to Stormbreath Dragon really hurts me here. FWP didn't do anything for me. Dreadbore was a champ. I need to learn how to sideboard for game 2 better. I need to learn how to identify things more efficiently, and plan better to stop them.

I may have to switch to the PyroBlack camp, since I actually
own all those cards, sans Mutavault. Also keeping a close watch on the Black Heroic lists.


Thanks for suggesting the FDS's Val. I just wish I had been able to read your message sooner, before FWP crapped all over me.

[zemanjaski]

I only prefer order by cmc because it helps visualize the curve of your spells. But I see you prefer alphabetical order...except when it comes to lands.

Its in MTGO output format, which means if someone wanted to save it as a .txt they can upload it into MTGO and load the deck

[zemanjaski]

[card]Altar's Reap[/card] is still around. That seems like a good choice for the deck with Phoenix, Pyromancer, and Necromancer.

Its too clunky for constructed.

[magicdownunder]

No one plays Fiendslayer Paladin at my level; they're all on Archangel of Thune which I'm well set up against.

You can juggle a Fiendslayer with sac. effects if need be.

I see Fiendslayer's in a few MOCS and Champion lists, I think its just the Australian competitive meta game which doesn't run them.

[Longtoe]

In North America, Fiendslayer has fallen out of favor as well.

[Purp]

Tested the list all day today Z vs Mono B, BW and UW. I swapped tymaret for a Pyrewild shaman after a while and it was really impressive. Tymaret was sort of hard to get online. Might put tymaret back in over barrage.

I seemed to draw lands a lot even on 22. Z, do you have a proposed SB?

[Purp]

Tested the list all day today Z vs Mono B, BW and UW. I swapped tymaret for a Pyrewild shaman after a while and it was really impressive. Tymaret was sort of hard to get online. Might put tymaret back in over barrage.

I seemed to draw lands a lot even on 22. Z, do you have a proposed SB?

[Guttler]

Tested the list all day today Z vs Mono B, BW and UW. I swapped tymaret for a Pyrewild shaman after a while and it was really impressive. Tymaret was sort of hard to get online. Might put tymaret back in over barrage.

I seemed to draw lands a lot even on 22. Z, do you have a proposed SB?

How did your test games go?

I found myself drawing a lot of lands too. That may just be one of the side effects of having a deck with cards like Pain Seer in it. Not having Mutavaults also means all your lands can't add any gas.

I kind of liked Tyramet. I had a few game wins where I sacced my other creatures for lethal or I saccing a creature in response to a removal spell to recur him from the graveyard was a big play. TMK
also lets you gain value from chump blocks. If TMK could sac himself, I would of won game 1 vs Dega; got him down to 1 and needed to draw any creature or burn spell, but it was land. I do love PWS. I found that that the games tend to be extremely grindy and when I'm winning it's often with a single creature or a pair of 2/2's, which is usually fine against a gassed opponent, but taking a long time to close out the game is not ideal vs someone who has live draws. PWS is the kind of card that I like better the more Sylvan Caryatids there are in the format, often Green decks are relying on Caryatid for both mana development and chump blocks on your bears, blowing them out with Blood Rush can really set them back.

[Valdarith]

I wonder if Hammer of Purphoros would be a good idea in the main to alleviate the flooding issues with Pain Seer.

[LaZerBurn]

I like that idea Val

[Pedros]

[deck]Suicide Rakdos[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Pain Seer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Xathrid Necromancer

1 Tymaret, Murder King

Spells
1 Barrage of Expendables
2 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
4 Swamp
[/deck]

How easily are you triggering Pain Seer? While this card seems awsome, without dedicated supporting card it seems hard to trigger it.

[Valdarith]

Thoughtseize, terminates, burn spells...seems very easy to get through with Pain Seer in a list like this.

[zemanjaski]

Thoughtseize, terminates, burn spells...seems very easy to get through with Pain Seer in a list like this.

Val gets it.

[zemanjaski]

Tested the list all day today Z vs Mono B, BW and UW. I swapped tymaret for a Pyrewild shaman after a while and it was really impressive. Tymaret was sort of hard to get online. Might put tymaret back in over barrage.

I seemed to draw lands a lot even on 22. Z, do you have a proposed SB?

Flooding on 22 land is more than likely a big issue with the deck. PyroRed ran 22 land but that included 4 Mutavaults; this deck, due to the coloured requirements, just doesn't have access to Mutavaults. Not even 1. Tymaret is the best mana sink available (by like, a LOT) and you can get incremental value from him in various board states, but it obviously isn't the same. Pain Seer drawing extra cards obviously helps too (give you should draw more spells than lands)
. Maybe the deck needs Pack Rat? Just to convert additional resources into threats. It is very possible that the deck is trying to do too many clever things and that fewer would actually be more powerful; switching out Chandra's Phoenix (thus removing the need for RR early) would allow Mutavaults for example - so that is something to consider.

The bigger question then is whether the power level of the cards is sufficient to compensate for the loss in consistency; I obviously don't have a conclusion on that as of yet because it requires a LOT of testing to know.

RE: Sideboarding

I don't like to give sideboards (you may remember me explaining this in my CFB articles even) since I change mine so regularly and I tend to get so much pushback over my choices that I just don't bother

Looking at the list as presented:
vs. UW Control: Shock is by far the worst card (Magma Jet isn't great either but more defensible),
so -4 Shock and +4 Rakdos Cacler/Skullcrack (your choice). I would prefer Cackler because the deck runs so a low creature count I would rather not be having to mulligan to find a 1 or 2 drop post board. Ultimate Price isn't great, but defensible if they're on the Archangel of Thune plan; I would still hedge and -2 UP, +2 Dreadbore.

That gives us 6 cards.

vs. MBC: -4 Shock, -4 Magma Jet (from experience these have to come out, they don't do enough). Then +6 cards from before, +2 Dark Betrayal? Hard to say. Act of Treason could be good with the sacrifice outlets also.

That would give us 8 cards.

vs. Aggro: -4 Thoughtseize and the rest of the deck is relatively well configured for the matchup (Phoenix is a bit weak). +2 Dreadbore, +2 Doom Blade.

That's 10 cards.

Beyond that, not really sure; it usually takes me several dozen games before I am really certain on how I like to play postboard.

[LP, of the Fires]

Firedrinker Satyr>Cackler.

The pump is relevant and you avoid random horeshit like MBC having Dark betrayel for your one-drop(pain seer/necromancer make it a reasonable card for them to bring in).

[Jack]

Cackler does improve a lot of opening hands on 4 Swamps, though.

[zemanjaski]

On 13 turn 1 red sources, FDS isn't reasonable.

[Jack]

Actually, do you think it's even correct to side in Dark Betrayal against this deck? Personally, I'd want to make sure that all of my removal could handle YP$ post board if I was playing black, though it does hit enough relevant shit to merit consideration, and they might not see YP$ game 1.

[zemanjaski]

Whether it's correct isn't relevant; only whether people would do it. I agree with LP; people will and it's defensible even if it's a bit loose.

[MattT]

Thoughtseize, terminates, burn spells...seems very easy to get through with Pain Seer in a list like this.

Some testing of this deck later and continuing on Val comment here I have one issue with the strategy; I struggle with warming to the Necro ca approach. Necro and (so few) Humans ca just feels forced and begging for the opponent to adapt to somehow. If Seer is around to achieve ca by going through a burned path and the spell suite is adapted for this how does this match Necro? He rather feels like a reaction to the inevitable answers to YP$ and Seer (and of course a lovely response to non-exile sweepers) and thus really being included to buy time. Completely going out on a limb here I have wished him to be Nyx-Smith who would also match the spell
suite wanting to get-stuff-through. If I am allowed to ramble on a little longer it´s Necros defensive nature that doesn´t fit for me. YP$ is also defensive in nature, but his defensive ability is married to an offensive action in the deck: casting offensive spells or helping Seer through.

Take this with salt. I haven´t tested the deck for more than a dozen matches. But every bit of info is worth something etc.

[zemanjaski]

I like your analysis, I don't disagree.

But I do think that defensive generated ca is fine when you can eventually convert it into offense.

And necro is very offensive vs. Sweepers.

[LP, of the Fires]

On 13 turn 1 red sources, FDS isn't reasonable.

How many hands are you keeping that cast turn 1 cackler via swamp? I'd lean towards adding a land either way so I guess it's debatable.

RE Necromancer: he's good enough vs. Mono-black and sweepers to be worth it IMO. He also gives you a certain amount of room to overextend into bile blights in certain board states.

[zemanjaski]

It's not so much that Cackler can be cast off turn 1 swamp; but that in addition, with 5 taplands, it makes a greater range of those hands effective because he won't disrupt your curve.

With 4 swamps you'll have one in 40% of openers; same with Cackler; that's about 1/6 games off turn 1 swamp. I think that's a lot.

[zemanjaski]

Sorry, that was a derp. It's 1/6 minus any instance of having a mountain (80%).

So yeah, not huge.

Maybe FDS is just better; the mana sink is so relevant and it's much better later.

Yeah, convinced.

[LP, of the Fires]

Science

[magicdownunder]

Here is the Pre-BnG list I was testing

[deck=MDU's Nothing Cute Br Aggro]Lands 24
9 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault

Creatures 18
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
3 Dreadbore
2 Ultimate Price

Sideboard 15
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Madcap Skills
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
4 Skullcrack[/deck]

Once BnG hit I'll cut -1x Swamp, -1x Mountain and -2x Rakdos Guildgate for 4x Temple of Malice and 2x Madcap Skills and 1x Stormbreath Dragon for 3x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (swapping 2x Chandra, Pyromaster for 2x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix MD).

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6705677)
Standard Elimination R1 Rb Aggro vs Bx Devotion Event 6705677
Standard Elimination R2 Rb Aggro vs UW Control Event 6705677
Standard Elimination R3 Rb Aggro vs Gr Devotion Event 6705677

[Valdarith]

Only thing about Firedrinker Satyr is that you're also running Pain Seer and Thoughtseize. That makes it difficult to run outside of UW.

[zemanjaski]

There probably isn't a list outside of UW where you would want to for sure; maybe MBC I guess?

[Valdarith]

I would even hesitate against them because of Gary, but I could be too conservative thinking that.

[Valdarith]

What if we replaced Chandra's Phoenix with Satyr Nyx-Smith? That would allow us to cut down on red and add Mutavaults, plus give us a sort of mana sink. Then we wouldn't feel quite as obligated to run 11+ burn spells.

[Valdarith]

Big negative not being able to recur it though.

[zemanjaski]

It's definitely worth testing. A guy on reddit suggested Ash Zealot, but I am not a big fan of that switch,