R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

[warwizard87]

While I'm Hall Monitoring Purp's Hall Monitoring, I guess I could also post up a list of what I think I'll be testing post Born:

[deck]
Creatures: 25
4 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 10
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Mutavault
7 Mountain
[/deck]

Not sure about SB, but I probably want it to be semi-transformational and I also wouldn't hate to squeeze a Hammer or two into the 75. This list does a few things I think are important:
1. It plays plenty of dual lands so I can play black cards with a heavier color
weight (I'm thinking mostly Hero's Downfall and Underworld Connections from the SB atm)
2. The curve completely ignores 1-drops giving me more of an opportunity to play ETB tapped lands without hindering my gameplan and lowering my chances of drawing very low impact spells later in the game against removal heavy decks.
3. The curve is also more top heavy - which makes it better against the new Aggro Boogyman, Drown in Sorrow, and better able to grind out games - but is still packed with efficient and Hasty creatures which keeps it aggressive.
4. The deck has a respectable amout of evasion, so even pre SB it can fly over pesky walls like Master of Waves.
5. The deck plays Rakdos's Return, which is just ridiculous.

I am liking this list so I figured wth give it my take.

[deck]// Lands
4 Blood Crypt
7 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice

// Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame
wreathed phonix
2 Sire of Insanity
4 Spike Jester
3 Stormbreath Dragon

// Spells
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos Keyrune
3 Rakdos's Return

// Sideboard
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
1 Slaughter Games
2 Underworld Connections[/deck]

I went with out boros reckoner, I love the guy to death yet I don't think the agro is going to be there cuz of the new black sweeper just scares it away, but I really want to see what sire of insanity can do in a format were pack rats exist also he is bigger then most decks completely shuts out any control deck and I think with all the haste and Chandra this deck will draw live more then any deck in the format. I cut a land and added keyrunes for a extra dude and mana acceleration. I went with dread bore over demise since I really want to have a 2 cost removal spell for guys then a 3 most of the time, and I am not sure if we really care about instant speed
here or not yet since this is completely untested. (obviously)

I do kind of like the curve also, 8 2 drops 7 3 drops(counting keyrune) 9 4 drops(counting Chandra) 3 5 drops 2 6 drops. and rakdos return can easily be turn 5 or 6 drop if need be. Not completely sold on the Flame wreathed phoenix yet its gonna have to prove its self first.

Edit: the more I look at this list the more I am thinking I kind of want whip....is that a thing here maybe?

Edit #2: Also this looks more like rakhammer then dos rakis tbh. mabey move this type of deck to another thread?

[Valdarith]

Why does Reckoner fear tge black sweeper exactly? It's a 3/3. The sweeper is exactly why you want to play Reckoner.

[Valdarith]

I have my own idea posted in the deckstorming thread, but it's a work in progress while I explore other potential archetypes.

[warwizard87]

I didn't say he feared the sweeper I said aggro will. Thus he isn't as good since aggro is going to be checked by the sweeper, in a lot of match ups he will be akward to cast 3/3 since his ability to generate card advantage by acting as a 2 for 1 vs aggro will be weakend by faceing less aggro match ups.

[Valdarith]

I think you'll miss Reckoner in the Gx matches, of which there will be plenty.

[LaZerBurn]

Why does Reckoner fear tge black sweeper exactly? It's a 3/3. The sweeper is exactly why you want to play Reckoner.

Reckoner is weak to Bile Blight, which is likely to be in the MD IMHO. I expect Drown to be a SB option.

[Valdarith]

Reckoner is weak to Hero's Downfall too. May as well not play any creatures with that logic.

Look, I get it. I was in the same boat early in the season. I wanted faster creatures in my deck and Reckoner was too slow. But playing Phoenix in a deck with only 6 or so cards to recur him isn't optimal, and guess what Phoenix dies to? Yep, Drown in Sorrow. So pick your poison.

[warwizard87]

Yeah I wasnt so much worried about what kills reckoner as I was the match ups were reckoner feels strangest vs ease of cost. Yeah I noticed how hard it is to get back the Phoenix only 10 cards in the deck can. Mabey its better off as the 3/3 flyer or reckoner. I'm not worried about speed so much as sustainability and how many match ups a card is effective in.

[Valdarith]

I've resolved to either play hyper aggressive on 22 lands or super big with 25. With the latter you just want to play good cards, and that's where Reckoner shines. Between him, Exava, Stormbreath Dragon, etc you have a lot of threats that are difficult to deal with.

[redthirst]

Edit #2: Also this looks more like rakhammer then dos rakis tbh. mabey move this type of deck to another thread?

It's Rb and it's aggressive so it fits our arbitrary definition of Dos Rakis as well as anything else IMO. Also, I toyed around with the numbers a bit more:

[deck]Creatures: 24
4 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 12
4 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 24
[/deck]

Went with Val and LP's suggestions for more removal.

[Valdarith]

It's good. With 8 four-drops and 3 five-drops I'd consider moving to 25 land though. With only eight ways to recur Phoenix, I'd consider cutting one for the 25th land.

That all said I think a flier-heavy list is worth exploring.

[Midnight_v]

While I'm Hall Monitoring Purp's Hall Monitoring, I guess I could also post up a list of what I think I'll be testing post Born:

[deck]
Creatures: 25
4 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 10
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Mutavault
7 Mountain
[/deck]

Not sure about SB, but I probably want it to be semi-transformational and I also wouldn't hate to squeeze
a Hammer or two into the 75. This list does a few things I think are important:
1. It plays plenty of dual lands so I can play black cards with a heavier color weight (I'm thinking mostly Hero's Downfall and Underworld Connections from the SB atm)
2. The curve completely ignores 1-drops giving me more of an opportunity to play ETB tapped lands without hindering my gameplan and lowering my chances of drawing very low impact spells later in the game against removal heavy decks.
3. The curve is also more top heavy - which makes it better against the new Aggro Boogyman, Drown in Sorrow, and better able to grind out games - but is still packed with efficient and Hasty creatures which keeps it aggressive.
4. The deck has a respectable amout of evasion, so even pre SB it can fly over pesky walls like Master of Waves.
5. The deck plays Rakdos's Return, which is just ridiculous.

I am liking this list so I figured wth give it my take.

[deck]// Lands
4 Blood Crypt
7 Mountain
n 3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice

// Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame wreathed phonix
2 Sire of Insanity
4 Spike Jester
3 Stormbreath Dragon

// Spells
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos Keyrune
3 Rakdos's Return

// Sideboard
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
1 Slaughter Games
2 Underworld Connections[/deck]

I went with out boros reckoner, I love the guy to death yet I don't think the agro is going to be there cuz of the new black sweeper just scares it away, but I really want to see what sire of insanity can do in a format were pack rats exist also he is bigger then most decks completely shuts out any control deck and I think with all the haste and Chandra this deck will draw live more then any deck in the format. I cut a land and added keyrunes for a extra dude and mana acceleration. I went with dread
bore over demise since I really want to have a 2 cost removal spell for guys then a 3 most of the time, and I am not sure if we really care about instant speed here or not yet since this is completely untested. (obviously)

I do kind of like the curve also, 8 2 drops 7 3 drops(counting keyrune) 9 4 drops(counting Chandra) 3 5 drops 2 6 drops. and rakdos return can easily be turn 5 or 6 drop if need be. Not completely sold on the Flame wreathed phoenix yet its gonna have to prove its self first.

Edit: the more I look at this list the more I am thinking I kind of want whip....is that a thing here maybe?

Edit #2: Also this looks more like rakhammer then dos rakis tbh. mabey move this type of deck to another thread?

On a whim I sat down and gave this list a try... I got destroyed like 5-1 vs G/R monsters in the main. I felt like I'd need more side options to cope with that.

[Tanro]

Got My ass kicked last night. But at least I scored the January FNM Promo Poster and an altered swamp.
1-2
Was playing the store Owner's Patriot Control deck.
G1 total race, cackler, cackler, jester, removal on banisher priest.
G2 I just got flooded. Turn 18 and I have 16 lands.
G3 I get him down to 2.... Top deck 5 lands, then chandra, then 4 more lands in 2 turns (0 ability) Should have went +1 twice to win.

Match 2 Jank attempt to mix Mono U and Mono B 0-2
G1 no relevant removal and a slow hand. Lost to turn 3 nightveil
G2 Lost to the damn nightveil again.

Match 3 UB Mill with Wights and Consuming Aberation 2-0
g1 - Just wrecked face.
g2 - Whip saved my ass. I boarded in removal. I kept whipping creatures out of my graveyard just for the lifelink and rolling down wight of precinct six. Finally managed to 1-1 all her threats and go in over the top with a demon. I have to say it was 20 minutes of the
most intense nail biting will I get another 1-1 and out last this deck? Ended up chump blocking a 16/16 with a damn satyr and still had 18 life.

G4 Mirror 2-1
g1 Me Cackler - Him Cackler, Me Jester, Him jester. Me Magma jet removing his jester, scryed into 4th land, turn 4 demon, turn 5 demon, turn 6 whip. Not even funny end.
g2 boarded in removal. Didn't draw any, or any 1 drops, or any 2 drops. Just lost quickly.
g3 Cackler, Cackler kept swinging in for 4, got him to 4 he chump blocks, magma jet extend hand.

He was playing some strange brew with madcap skills and titans strength. No 4 drops. Just a full on turn doods sideways and kill a bitch on turn 4 deck.

I blame that foil master of cruelties I decided to jam in there for the hammer. He is going back in the trade binder, and I am getting a real sideboard soonish. Need the toil//trouble and some ultimate price. Doom blade is coming out because it is so damn dead.

Still on the fence about putting my Vaults unless I run a pack rat list.

[Longtoe]

I am looking at these lists with a glut of two drops. Why isn't the deck running a set of thoughtseize as there are no other 1 drops in the deck. A T1 seize can win a game on its own if an opponent keeps a loose hand or set you up for success.

[Valdarith]

8 two drops is not a glut. It's quite normal. Unless you're also referring to spells, which isn't what should be looked at. These red lists can't consistently cast a turn one Thoughtseize so it's 1cmc is mostly irrelevant.

[Deht]

Anyone have a different gameplan for how to approach the Gr Monsters / Gr Devotion strategies? I reviewed videos posted in here of Dos Rakis and found that it seemed like that matchup had issues. I tried following the outlined plan from page 11 but that hasn't been successful unless the opponent gets land flooded or screwed. I usually can snag G1 with an aggro approach but if I try to go to a more controlling plan on G2 and G3 I seem to run into problems.

[Valdarith]

Gr monsters shouldn't be an issue, especially postboard when you're running 12+ terrors that don't care about toughness and some of them even hit walkers.

What is your sideboard strategy and what problems are you having?

[Aodh]

RB fliers. Phoenix, Herald -> Phoenix, DD -> Dragon. Run all twelve duals and spend T1-T2 with removal/tap-lands.

[Tanro]

That would be sick to see. Thoughtseize on that list could seal the deal.

[Deht]

Right now, I'm pulling out 4 Cacklers and 3 Spike Jesters. Siding in an extra dreadbore, 3 doom blade, 3 Mizzium Mortars. Usually I'm trying to drop a threat that will stick T2 or T3 and then keep the board clear of any big creatures. If I get an indication of a lack of land I'll burn out any mana dorks I can. If Domri appears I kill him on sight as fast as possible. I'm wondering if I'm just somehow going up against their nut draws because I eventually end up not being able to keep up with their threats. Wish I had the cards on MTGO so I could record some matches to show where I'm struggling.

This week I'm putting in Desecration Demon in place of Exava for an experiment, Exava is great but dropping another high powered flyer on T4 following it up with another one T5 would be awfully nice!

[Valdarith]

Sometimes RG will just nutdraw you and there's nothing you can do about it. It happened to me at fnm last month. You just have to chalk them up to luck and move on.

Outside of that, if you're still losing an abnormally large amount of games, you need to reflect on the overall strategy. Are you playing enough removal? Are you not agrrssive enough? Are you killing the wrong creatures?

[Pedros]

Thinking about new standard after BtG, I think going agro and having low impact 1 and 2 drops that got stopped by everything (Weird, Specter, Ash Zealot, Merchant) might not be good. Sometimes heavy removal decks dont even remove low impact creatures as they are stopped by any of their own creatures.

[LaZerBurn]

Are you going to revisit B/R Pedros? Or do you think Aggro will be completely unviable?

[Pedros]

@Lazer

Sorry for not answering on mtgo, I had to wake up early today so I went to sleep too fast ;P

To be honest I feel that agro with many 2/X ground beaters wont be good. It doesnt look like a metagame would change much - so we will fight in a world of Frostborn Weirds (1/4), Nightveil specters (2/3), Gray Merchants (2/4), Ash Zealots (First Strike), Cloudfin raptors (2/3 is easy to achieve), Boros Reckoners and Master of Waves + other big bad creatures such as Desecration Demon and Dragons. 2/X are only good vs UW control and only if they dont have Jace and only in first game, as game 2 we see transformative sb to have combination of Soldier of Pantheon (relevant protection), Paladin (protection and First strike) and Archangel of Thune (4 toughtness means cant be killed by burn you want to have post board). All those options gain you life.

I understand you can always remove them with terror efect or burn, but doesnt
it make us weaker vs those decks? If we use removal on frostborn weird or specter, we might now have it vs Demon or Master of waves. and if we dont have it, then we cant attack. I understand people might say otherwise, and that my worlds are biased, but I dont really know how I can beat mono black with a deck such as Big Boros dauntless, you and MDU are playing right now. 16 creatures, where 12 are stoneblocked by specter and raptor, 8 by any ground creature I mentioned earlier? Remember you cant rely on removal as black decks will thoughtseize / duress it before playing own creatures, or just with a knowledge force you to chain non - relevant thread (turn 1 seize turn 2 rat knowing I have only 1 more removal in hand. If I dont kill it, I die to rat. If I kill it, I dont have answer to specter or demon. How you can then win?)

So how to solve those problems: I have 2 ideas right now that are needed to be discussed:

R/B skies - we have fantastic flyers in those colors. Chandra Phoenix, Herald of Torment,
Desecration Demon, new Phoenix, Stormbreath Dragon. That is 20 flying creatures that fly over all ground creatures like nothing, 2,5 (new phoenix) have haste, and Herald has pseudo haste when cast on turn 5. Might help the creature curve with pack rats, however they would be worse with Bile Blight. Early turns would have to be spend on distruption (thoughtseize), removal (those 2 colors have a lot of it so any combination would be good) and fixing (a lot of RR and BB, however with 12 possible duals it can be done). Card advantage might be made with Chandra and/or Underworld Connections. Strong Lifegain possibility with Whip and lifegain prevention (Erebos) or punisher mechanic (Mogis).

Another archetype I would like to try would be some sort of mono black agro, list similar to the one that placed top 16 last GP - dont know if with heroic mechanic or normal agro. Here Pain Sear would be exceptional, as Thoughtseize and terrors can clean the way for him plus 2 good bestow creatures (Nighthowler and Herald)
will allow him to attack into other creatures. Strong Heroic in Agent of the Fates might get additional card advantage, Grey Merchants gives you reach and Underworld Connections - more card advantage. This archetype might also get you smooth transition from beatdown plan to control plan after sb - you can play similar to mono black control after sb.

As I dont have access to Clans threads, all of you might have already discussed those things, disregard my points as you already solved those problems / said it doesnt matter, might have more stuff than rough sketch of a deck, etc. If u have such, please post them somewhere so I wont be walking in the dark or break open doors by myself...

[MattT]

Also being out of the Clan thread I must say that I like the R/B skies idéa. Thoughtseize into scryland or removal followed by a flier seems like a good plan A. Not as keen on Underworld Connections. This deck feels faster than the MonoB pseudo-Control deck that uses it now. I'd rather pick Chandra for ca as she helps the already evasive creatures through for the last points. The trouble is balancing the offense starting at T3 with removal.

[LaZerBurn]

Here's my first thoughts - I'd like to be Br or Rb rather than BR or RB but this isn't very easy to do as a lot of the best spells need double.

If we want Phoenix we need at least 8 burn - 4 Jet (helps with mana too) and 4 Strike seems best. 2 Chandra is good with the bird. If we don't run the Phoenix we get more wiggle room with the removal suite but lose the recursion, obviously

Stormbreath is definitely in as is Exava as she can block too. The new Phoenix I'm not sure about, I prefer DD but I'd like to test the Phoenix.

Thoughtseize is in, possibly Duress in the SB.

Best removal is Hero's Downfall but it's double black. We need Mortars or Devour Flesh so we don't die to BBV. After that we have Bile Blight, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Drown, Anger ...

I like Erebos and I'd also like to try Mogis - I love Sulphuric
Vortex

With 25 land Rakdos' Return is worth a look.

Read the Bones over Chandra maybe - definite card draw and her ultimate is poor in this build? Connections is good but I think the best deck for this is MonoB Devo with Gary.

Here's my first draft, mana likely needs attention and may in fact be unworkable

EDIT - I'd like to squeeze Pack Rat in here, somehow!

[deck]Rakdos Skies Pile[/deck]
SB starts with Erebos, a sweeper -
Anger or Drown, maybe Mortars, Duress and/or Return Vs Control, Dark Betrayal Vs B.

EDIt - if anyone wants to help me make Cockatrice work I'm up for testing this and MonoB Aggro against the Big 3 - BDevo, UDevo and UW.

[Deht]

Decent FNM turnout but a lot of the regulars weren't there. I performed pretty poorly tonight, went 1-3, swapped Desecration Demon into the list (instead of Exava) and it didn't really do much overall. Exava would've been nice in two of the matchups, but I only dropped him in one match and really he did nothing of note. Disappointing end to Theros only standard for me.

Deck

---

[deck]Jan 31[/deck][/spoiler:
2j24fe4g]


Round 1 - UW Control - 0-2

Round 1

---

G1 - After having a lot of good games against UW Control it just couldn't come together for this one, Mulligan to 6, but I had a very strong hand but he dropped Blind Obedience early and it foiled my dragon and basically started taking over with Elspeth. I scooped after he cast Sphinx's Revelation twice, bumping his life total out of my reach.

Sideboard --- Slaughter Games, Erebos

G2 - Poor draw again, mulligan to a decent 6, don't really remember much about this game overall, other than my draws were absolute crap. Wasn't able to put any real pressure on so he just took the in about 20-ish minutes. Opponent played really well and I played poorly and drew poorly.

Round 2 - GU Combo / Ramp - 2-1

Round 2

---

G1 - Opponent is a really friendly guy that is always bringing in brews and the like. His decks always are unique and a lot of
fun to play against. His deck was a Green Blue ramping deck that had an eventual goal of dropping huge creatures through Garruk. End "goal" is to drop Worldspine Worm. G1 was exactly how the deck should operate, 1 Drop, 2 Drop, 3 Drop, Rats then going forward. He put up a really good fight but was overwhelmed by rats in the end

Sideboard - Cacklers came out and a couple Spike Jesters came out, more removal came in

G2 - Polukranos hit the table on T3, Garruk plus other huge creatures came out too. Prime Speaker came out as a 8/8 or 9/9, something huge. Conceded as he had the win on the table.

Sideboard - No change

G3 - He had two "Shenanigans" instances, one with Stolen Identity on my Stormbreath and then getting it Ciphered on a creature and creating more copies, really funny. Luckily I had removal and a second stormbreath. I had him down fairly low with great board presence and then his combo went off with Garruk dropping Worldspine Worm, but it was a little too late. Snuck
in the right amount of damage. Had a misplay on Wordspine Worm (didn't read the card fully, my bad) but luckily I was able to push the kill through.

Round 3 vs. UW Control 1-2

Round 3

---

G1 - Blah, another control matchup. I usually don't mind playing against control but my opponent spoke very quietly and played very slowly, so it was awkward. Basically first 5 turns were him countering anything I dropped or last breathing it after it hit the board. Eventually Elspeth hits the board, and any pressure I dropped he Verdict'd off. Jace and Aetherling joined the party a little bit later. Played a bit longer then I probably should've on this game as the writing was on the wall but I was trying to see more win conditions and what he had.

Sideboard --- Slaughter Games, Erebos

G2 - Mulligan to 6. Turn 2 Spike Jester, Turn 3 Burn to the face, Turn 4 Slaughter Games, named Sphinx's Revelation, T5 - T6 were more burning to
the face. Game ended with him getting Elspeth on board, me Dreadbore-ing it out. He scooped next draw

G3 - He dropped Fiendslayer Paladin, I almost got him to Supreme Verdict with it on board, but he opted not to and hit Elspeth off of either an Opportunity or Divination. Slaughter Games named Sphinx's (had plenty of removal for walkers). Eventually was able to trade for his Fiendslayer, but with around 3 minutes left in the round he dropped an Aetherling, which is a race I can't win with a Stormbreath on board.

Round 4 GW Aggro 0-2

Round 4

---

G1 - Opponent seemed nice but did the whole "Oh you're doing that huh? Well, I'm going to do THIS" type narration for the full duration of the game. Mulligan to 5. Race, but he managed to drop an Advent at just the right time to force me to hold back attacks and more or less chump. GG two turns after that.

Sideboard -- More removal.

G2 - More narration (was
pretty annoying), more mulliganing (very annoying). Did a ton of 1-for-1'ing him with removal. Got a couple 2-for-1's on his enchanted creature, and did one 3 of his cards for 2 of mine. Ended with a race down to zero that he won when we both landed a creature that the other could deal with. Ah well. I felt that I played well and drew well this game but my opponent just played better.

We have our good nights and bad nights and this was definitely a bad one for me, almost every game my opponents were outplaying me and I just couldn't draw what I needed. Especially frustrating since lately I'd been having great success with the deck. Exava is staying in the deck. This is also the first time this standard that I haven't played against at least one Mono Black Deck or RG List. I played some casual games against another control deck after swapping Exava back in and I just found myself thinking "If I only played and drew this well earlier." I had one game that
was T1 Cackler, T2 Spike Jester, T3 Phoenix, (he verdicts here on his turn), T4 Phoenix, T5 Stormbreath (he concedes) and another game Cackler, jet, Phoenix, Exava, Exava again after Verdict. I only lost one game where I had to mulligan down to like 4 just to see a land (outside of Mutavault).

[Tanro]

Went 4-1 @ FNM. Then 2-1 in the finals. beat the Bant Control Player like a redheaded stepchild. Lost to the Esper Planeswalker control deck nicknamed "boring as shit". I was getting rather bored so I scooped after 25 minutes of the 3rd game in the finals. Seriously getting bored of with FNM now. It is the same top 4 every weekend now that a lot of the good players have stopped coming frequently.

[Jasper]

This is what I'm taking to FNM tomorrow, and possibly to the IQ later this month. I've read this entire thread twice, and I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, just need to pick up a couple things to make it better. As always, any help/critique is most appreciated. Don't be afraid to be straightforward or rude, as I'm here to learn, not to argue.

[deck=Jasper's FNM]Creatures 22
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix

Spells 12
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dreadbore
2 Ultimate Price

Thighs 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land 24
4 Blood Crypt
2 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
12 Mountain
5 Swamp
[/deck]

This is from just what I have right now, but there is the chance that I'll be able to trade for more Temple of Malice and [card]Flame-
Wreathed Phoenix[/card] before FNM starts. I'm mainly wondering about the mana-base, as I suck at that. I'm also not really sold on the lone Tymaret, but I also really don't like top decking Cacklers later either, and the Burger King alleviates some of that pain. I don't own any Stormbreath Dragon, but I do own 2 Desecration Demon and 2 Pack Rat. This just seemed too [mana]rr[/mana] for me to run demons, and Pack Rat didn't seem like a good fit either.

Sideboard is going to be some number of the following:

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

1-2 Whip seem like auto-includes. 3 Dark Betrayals is a nice number. 2 Doom Blade. 1 Toil // Trouble. 2-3 Skullcrack. I like 3 Rakdos Keyrune against aggro, but I already have a lot of spot
removal. Rakdos Charm is mostly for blowing up Whip and Spear. I suppose that it's mostly a matter of my local meta.


I know this is a competitive section, but I felt like this was the best place to ask questions. MTGS has been really letting me down lately. I'd love to get some feedback before I head into my FNM tomorrow, and I'll come back with some game reports if anyone would want to read them.

[Valdarith]

I'm not a fan of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix because it jams up four 4cmc slot. Removing them would allow you to cut a land (Swamp) and lower your curve a bit more. Going with three Firedrinker Satyr would be most optimal IMO.

11 black sources should be sufficient.

[hoeiberg]

Here is the deck I'm currently toying with:

[deck]
CREATURES(27):
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Spike Jester
4x Ash Zealot
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
1x Mogis, God of Slaughter
3x Stormbreath Dragon

CHANDRA(2):
2x Chandra, Pyromaster

SPELLS(6):
2x Dreadbore
4x Lightning Strike

LANDS(25):
2x Mutavault
4x Temple of Malice
4x Blood Crypt
4x Swamp
11x Mountain

SIDEBOARD:
2x Dreadbore
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Doom Blade
3x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
4x "I don't know yet"
[/deck]

So the idea is to be aggro, fast aggro. Then G2 we have the option of transforming into a midrange deck with loads of removal and flyers to beat deck with more early game (I'm thinking here mostly of G/x whose creatures outclass ours at every spot on the curve). I'd very much appreciate any feedback on the deck/the idea (even someone just stating
that it sucks and i shouldn't waste more time on it).

I went for 8 1-drops thinking that Drown in Sorrow and friends will be mostly sideboard, so not relevant in G1

[Tanro]

I'm not a fan of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix because it jams up four 4cmc slot. Removing them would allow you to cut a land (Swamp) and lower your curve a bit more. Going with three Firedrinker Satyr would be most optimal IMO.

11 black sources should be sufficient.

Been running 7 4 drops and 3 5 Drops myself. I prefer demon to phoenix. But that could change, the phoenix seems good against token producers (elspeth, mow) then again, so does drown in sorrow.

[Deht]

@Tanro what's your list looking like? (if you don't mind sharing, of course)

I went for 8 1-drops thinking that Drown in Sorrow and friends will be mostly sideboard, so not relevant in G1

Looks like it'd be good for the control matchup, but I'd be worried about the green matchup (T2 Caryatid, T3 Polukranos) and the GW Aggro matchup with the lack of more removal / burn.

[Midnight_v]

Skies is a SUPER tempting idea.
Its the only deck so far I'd consider running Flame-wreathed phoenix in. I'm on cockatrice everyday, at 7-10 a.m central time and overnights on thurs/friday.

On r/b Skies. I'm going to run Slaughter games in the side always when I run r/b but that just me. Its just won me too many matches when my opponent has went into "Stall for victory mode", but aside from that concession in my overall MTG deck choices. I'm pretty good playtest partner. Any more?

[zemanjaski]

[deck]Suicide Rakdos[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Pain Seer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Xathrid Necromancer

1 Tymaret, the Murder King

Spells
1 Barrage of Expendables
2 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
4 Swamp
[/deck]

This is my latest creation for BNG, and I will try to explain all the choices and intricacies. It is by no means finished or perfect; but the core concept is really strong and the deck is very skill rewarding (and I would contend, flexible and adaptable enough to make work in the format).

Let's start by considering the format as it was BEFORE BNG. We have Mono B Devotion, Mono U Devotion and UW Control as the best decks. These decks beat traditional red aggro in the following
ways:
- Mono B: actually doesn't. Had traditionally had trouble with swarm decks. Particularly weak to Young Pyromancer and Chandra's Phoenix which are well positioned against the traditional composition of their deck. The problems arise when they have a Turn 3 Spectre and you don't have a Lightning Strike; or multiple Desecration Demons. Pack Rat isn't very scary; 3 mana to make a Rat that trades 1-for-1 with your 1 or 2 mana removal is to your advantage and otherwise they're a deck that tries to trade cards except you've got a lower curve and run more spells, so you have a natural card advantage that they can only make up through Underworld Connections (-2 cards though) which costs them life. The Rakdos Suicide deck is well positioned against this deck because all of your creatures are good against removal and you have a lot more answers to their problematic cards (Nightveil Specter and Desecration Demon) than even the RW Pyromancer shell.

- Mono U Devotion. This is the deck that forced Red based
aggro out of the format; almost entirely on the strength on maindecking 16 hate cards (Frostburn Weird, Nightveil Specter, Master of Waves and Tidebinder Mage). These cards would wall your beaters, generating effective card advantage for them, then power out devotion for huge Master of Waves that would then kill you. You'll notice that there are no 1 drops in my list (in the maindeck anyway); this substantially weaks cards like Frostburn Weird and Tidebinder Mage; who's main value in the matchup is shutting down your 1 drops. You've also got more removal and interaction than a normal red deck, which positions your better against their key cards. Basically, you're already pre-sideboarded for this match, and while I don't think it would be favourable, it should be reasonable, which is a huge step forward.

- UW Control. At some point, this matchup became problematic, mostly due to the inclusion of 4x Last Breath. That gave their deck enough early interaction to survive and power out a Jace or large
Revelation. Your cards were all good, but you just weren;t quite interactive enough. RB interacts with this strategy much better than RW; Thoughtseize and Dreadbore are extremely powerful against their strategy, and the sacrifice effects help protect your key cards from effects like Azorius Charm, Last Breath and Detention Sphere. Post board Rb usually has a substantial advantage because your proactive cards answer their reactive ones at a substantial mana advantage.

Post BNG, these matchups don't change too much. Mono U and UW don't change at all. Mono B gets Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow (boo and booooo!). That's unfortunate, but look at the creature base. Firstly, we're not running a LOT of creatures (like a BTE deck would) so you're not going to be extending into them too badly. Secondly, all of the creatures are resilient to removal. Necromancer affects all of your humans (Pain Seer and Young Pyromancer) greatly reducing the power of these cards; Phoenix can be rebought. Thoughtseize can
proactively protect your board. The sacrifice effects can fizzle a Bile Blight.

While its impossible to say what other archetypes will be popular in BNG, I do believe, for all the reasons already discussed in this thread, that Rb can combat them. Green Monsters? Terrors. White Weenie? Young Pyromancer and removal etc.

Happy to hear feedback. This is a pretty basic write-up that doesn't cover a lot of the small synergies, so if you have any questions or can think of any other sweet additions, get at me.

[magicdownunder]

I really think you need 1 more land, just so you can cast more then 1 spell per turn - I think the 0/x ramp walls will cause problems for this list but I like the potential you have in turning your creatures into reach.

[Calamity]

[deck]Creatures: 20
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spike Jester
4 Young Pyromancer

Thighs: 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells: 13
4 Lightning Strike
2 Dreadbore
3 Ultimate Price
4 Magma Jet

Land: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
2 Rakdos Guildgate
10 Mountain
2 Swamp

SB
3 Thoughtseize
3 Doom Blade
4 Skullcrack
2 Mogis, God of Slaughter
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Duress
[/deck]

Here's where I'm at for Rb right now, inspired by one of MDU's lists. Z's list looks awesome but I probably wont' be able to run next week it due to card availability (just need to more RB temples and an ultimate price)

I'm not sure if I want the YP$ or if I'm just clinging to him 'cause he's a bit of a pet card. I'm not sure if this deck wants to run 4 cacklers in their place. Exava makes them not quite as terrible topdecks later in the game.

[Valdarith]

[deck]Suicide Rakdos[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Pain Seer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Xathrid Necromancer

1 Tymaret, Murder King

Spells
1 Barrage of Expendables
2 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
4 Swamp
[/deck]

This is my latest creation for BNG, and I will try to explain all the choices and intricacies. It is by no means finished or perfect; but the core concept is really strong and the deck is very skill rewarding (and I would contend, flexible and adaptable enough to make work in the format).

Let's start by considering the format as it was
BEFORE BNG. We have Mono B Devotion, Mono U Devotion and UW Control as the best decks. These decks beat traditional red aggro in the following ways:
- Mono B: actually doesn't. Had traditionally had trouble with swarm decks. Particularly weak to Young Pyromancer and Chandra's Phoenix which are well positioned against the traditional composition of their deck. The problems arise when they have a Turn 3 Spectre and you don't have a Lightning Strike; or multiple Desecration Demons. Pack Rat isn't very scary; 3 mana to make a Rat that trades 1-for-1 with your 1 or 2 mana removal is to your advantage and otherwise they're a deck that tries to trade cards except you've got a lower curve and run more spells, so you have a natural card advantage that they can only make up through Underworld Connections (-2 cards though) which costs them life. The Rakdos Suicide deck is well positioned against this deck because all of your creatures are good against removal and you have a lot more answers to their problematic
cards (Nightveil Specter and Desecration Demon) than even the RW Pyromancer shell.

- Mono U Devotion. This is the deck that forced Red based aggro out of the format; almost entirely on the strength on maindecking 16 hate cards (Frostburn Weird, Nightveil Specter, Master of Waves and Tidebinder Mage). These cards would wall your beaters, generating effective card advantage for them, then power out devotion for huge Master of Waves that would then kill you. You'll notice that there are no 1 drops in my list (in the maindeck anyway); this substantially weaks cards like Frostburn Weird and Tidebinder Mage; who's main value in the matchup is shutting down your 1 drops. You've also got more removal and interaction than a normal red deck, which positions your better against their key cards. Basically, you're already pre-sideboarded for this match, and while I don't think it would be favourable, it should be reasonable, which is a huge step forward.

- UW Control. At some point, this matchup became
problematic, mostly due to the inclusion of 4x Last Breath. That gave their deck enough early interaction to survive and power out a Jace or large Revelation. Your cards were all good, but you just weren;t quite interactive enough. RB interacts with this strategy much better than RW; Thoughtseize and Dreadbore are extremely powerful against their strategy, and the sacrifice effects help protect your key cards from effects like Azorius Charm, Last Breath and Detention Sphere. Post board Rb usually has a substantial advantage because your proactive cards answer their reactive ones at a substantial mana advantage.

Post BNG, these matchups don't change too much. Mono U and UW don't change at all. Mono B gets Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow (boo and booooo!). That's unfortunate, but look at the creature base. Firstly, we're not running a LOT of creatures (like a BTE deck would) so you're not going to be extending into them too badly. Secondly, all of the creatures are resilient to removal. Necromancer
affects all of your humans (Pain Seer and Young Pyromancer) greatly reducing the power of these cards; Phoenix can be rebought. Thoughtseize can proactively protect your board. The sacrifice effects can fizzle a Bile Blight.

While its impossible to say what other archetypes will be popular in BNG, I do believe, for all the reasons already discussed in this thread, that Rb can combat them. Green Monsters? Terrors. White Weenie? Young Pyromancer and removal etc.

Happy to hear feedback. This is a pretty basic write-up that doesn't cover a lot of the small synergies, so if you have any questions or can think of any other sweet additions, get at me.

I like the list barring a couple of cards missing that I really like. Exava seems like a great two of to me to power through fatties, and being human is nice too. Also, what turned you away from Chandra? Do you just think you have enough CA as is?

I'm not used to lists with so much burn and no Phoenix. It seems you can go CA two ways:
Phoenix or Necromancer with humans. I think it's important to determine which is better. I'm leaning toward Phoenix due to evasion and the fact that seeing one per game can generate obscene CA. With Necromancer they need only kill him and your CA engine is shut down. Outside of wrath effects he seems suboptimal.

[windstrider]

@Val -- If you're referring to [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card], then it's the first creature listed.

[Valdarith]

Oh I see that now! I'm used to cards being ordered by cmc so my mind naturally glazed over that. So yes, insane value!

I still want Chandra though.

The only concern I have postboard is UW control bringing in Fiendslayer Paladin. We aren't playing Chandra, Exava, or Ash Zealot so that card could be a handful. Thoughtseize is our only answer. Perhaps if we went up one black source we could board in Lifebane Zombie? Dodges Last Breath and gives us hand info if we don't have Thoughtseize.