Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[zemanjaski]

Suga said my cases were weak but then voted for both players.

[DroppinSuga]

unvote

I'm going to keep my vote jumping up.

[( G_R )]

Why you so scummy?

[Link]

Imopen2- Do I have to give the reasons why again? He also hammered Freedom who defended him.

in this post wraith distances from his buddy Imopen/Void

That's not distancing. He blatantly forgets that imopen was not on freedom's wagon. Call that smearing if you like, but imopen is not Wraith's buddy. I still think Wraith is town. Like, seriously 99% sure.

Fine but he's wasting his time with me

[Link]

wow seriously can we just policy lycnh suga at this point I could care less for this bullshit

[zemanjaski]

Imopen2 can we get a T/S list?

[Link]

like in boondocks he was obvtown about it (SK is town I don't care waht you fucks think)


but here its just blatantly bad

[zemanjaski]

I personally really don't like policy lynches. Apparently this is his style as both factions (his own suggestion); how it helps either faction is unclear to me. His constant deflection and hypocrisy are scum tells though.

[Link]

there's style and there's play Z.

People like me and Suga aren't undreadable, you just have to look through the style

and his play smells like scum this game

[rezombad]

Suga said my cases were weak but then voted for both players.

If this was directed at me, I was talking about not seeing Void as scum.

[zemanjaski]

No; I liked your post but I was observing a point I hadn't noticed when I did my wagon analysis post.

[imopen2]

1. Stardust - leaning town
4. zemanjaski - leaning scum
5. Void - leaning scum
6. Wraith223 - leaning town
7. Fate - leaning scum
8. Captain Murphy - leaning scum
9. DroppinSuga - null
10. Manders - leaning town
11. rezombad - null
12. (G_R) - null
13. imopen2 - town

[zemanjaski]

Thanks. Can you elaborate a little more on your scum reads?

[imopen2]

Fate has claimed scum

You can see my case on void

Captain was an early scum suspect and has basically been gone ever since so I don't have any reason to move him away from scum

I've got you scum for reasons I've already stated.

I wouldn't be that surprised if suga was scum but there are other good lynches today

[Stardust]

@Stardust:
That was not me faking a Town slip or even trying to Town slip. Ftr, I don't even see that as a Town slip because of the complexity of this game. It's called stream-of-consciousness posting something you see me do all the time.

What did you think I was talking about when I described why I saw imopen's slip as real?

Not this obviously.

That doesn't answer my
question. I'm trying to wrap my head around why you would discredit a town slip without even trying to understand why it was a town slip. Help me out here.

Follow-up: Now that it's finally dawned on you what the hell I was talking about, has your opinion on the town slip changed?

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 14!
A House in New Orleans

Stardust (0)
zemanjaski (0)
Void (3) - Fate, Stardust, Void
Wraith223 (0)
Fate (2) - Wraith223, Void
Captain Murphy (0)
DroppinSuga (1) - ( G_R )
Manders (0)
rezombad (0)
(G_R) (0)
imopen2 (0)

Not Voting (5) - zemanjaski, Captain Murphy, Manders, rezombad, DroppinSuga

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is: 14 February, 2014 11:59PM EST

[Wraith223]

Fate is really pushing for a lynch. Void would be a good vote, but I am having doubts. Freedom lynched himself and anyone could through up a reason to vote him and not look scumy. Thus having scum on his votes is obvious, yet difficult to find.

If I am wasting time with Fate; please explain this and I am directing this at everyone.
WHY ARE WE IGNORING THE OBVIOUS SCUM?
Captain Murphy was close to a lynch for Doc hunting and freedom created a huge distraction.
Fate has claimed scum and refuses to say why scum claiming helps town. WTF people?
Imopen2 has given every scum tell in the book and you guys are still looking for "town tells". I have seen people lynched for less!

I see scum looking for easy lynches as they claim scum on themselves? Did all town get retarded players? LYNCH THE CLAIMED SCUM PEOPLE!

Void is a good target, but there is stronger evidence against 3 other players. Use your heads!

[Stardust]

[Manders]

Nothing? In that first post I'm basically accusing him of casting doubt on imopen's town slip without even understanding why it was a town slip. Then I vote him.

So why did it take you an hour and a half to vote him?
Trouble typing again?

[Manders]

Wraith, you can't just lynch everyone who claims scum. Does it help the Town for Town to claim scum? Fuck no, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

This does not mean I think Fate is Town, mind you, but it does mean I think others are more deserving of our attention.

I'll be able to re-read wraspy (and all of Day 1, really) and make a sizable post tomorrow. I appreciate y'all's patience.

[Stardust]

Nothing? In that first post I'm basically accusing him of casting doubt on imopen's town slip without even understanding why it was a town slip. Then I vote him.

So why did it take you an hour and a half to vote him?
Trouble typing again?

No, I just didn't want to move my vote off Fate before getting his response.

And if you're referring to the cop incident, I'll have you know that had nothing to do with typing. I just read my role PM upside down. doc ->
ɔop

[Wraith223]

This how I see this game so far.

Stardust is playing the leading speaker that everyone listens to. No one besides me and another I can't find/remember is challenging the claims made.

Zem is hunting as usual and not gaining any traction from anyone unless its an easy vote for scum to bandwagon on.

Void throws out better reads then goes dark.

Captain Murphy and Fate apperantly can say and get away with anything without an auto lynch.

Imopen2 is getting protection from Manders and Stardust with stupid laims of "Town slips".

DroppinSuga and G_R are the dumbest players in this game with limited responses and pointless posts. If they are town; we are fucked.

Freedom could use a brain cell to shut up with
defending scum and playing devil's advocate with EVERYTHING. He was town? What a fucking waste.

Manders had the best read on Captain Murphy and it was abandoned? WTF people? Let's get back on track!

Rezombad seems to be only one trying to play the game for town. Late as shit though.

I am seeing a nasty set of trends.
1. players are seeing Zem as an easy target for lynch due to past history of day one lynchs or his stubborn attitude.
2. players are listening to unverified claims or expierianced players WAY to much. Stardust could be scum people! Manders said it and it is true with unverifiable claims Stardust has made!
3. certain players are flip voting as maybe a tactic to be safe from lynching and not giving reads. How worthless can you be?
4. certain players go after scum targets when the obvious scum are standing right in front of them. Are you guys wanting to be original scum finders or something?
Is credit for scum finds that important?
5. players being over-aggresive and saying they are more expierianced, thus are a power house swing vote and top read on players. FUCK THAT! they are just playing a stratagy of a punk ass bully. Use your own damn brains and hunt scum with your evidence findings.
6. Looking at previous games on players is not the best method of scum hunting, but instead is a factor with evidence in THIS game. If you find it a strong factor; link us and let us decide.

I hope this message gets through to town cause I (town) want to win this game.
Please vote the scum claimer first.
VOTE FATE please as we have the claim of scum. Next is Capatain Murphy. Followed by Imopen2 or Stardust cause I hate unverfiable claims to lead town down rat hole.

[Wraith223]

Wraith, you can't just lynch everyone who claims scum. Does it help the Town for Town to claim scum? Fuck no, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

This does not mean I think Fate is Town, mind you, but it does mean I think others are more deserving of our attention.

I'll be able to re-read wraspy (and all of Day 1, really) and make a sizable post tomorrow. I appreciate y'all's patience.

I have seen people lynched for less as you showed me in that game you played in. Your call on captain murphy is dead on, but we have retard town this game.
I am getting rather irratated with Stardust. Claiming doc does not help town as I see it as a means to protect self from lynching and leading us astray. Stardust seems to be running around
voting everyone slightly scum to draw out the game.
Fate and Zem asked for a vote on freedom and they were not technically wrong on their reads as freedom said stupid shit...repatedly! Him rolling tow was actually a suprise to me but he was a horrid distraction from the real scum we had a bead on.

If we have town players like Freedom and possibly Droppinsuga, G_R, and god forbid Fate; how do we win as town?

Am I frustrated Town? You bet your ass I am! Feel as if I was dropped in a game with retarded assets and players (you and Rez are doing better). This game should have been called "Town, You're Screwed" from Dude, You're Screwed. What a cluster fuck of catagory 4's we have to work with.

[Wraith223]

How could I forget Zem in paragraph 3 from post 663. You are doing a good job as well.

[Wraith223]

Damn it. It's paragraph 4.

[Stardust]

Focus, Wraith. Who do you want to lynch? Talk about them. Reminding us with every post of your entire T/S list is tiresome. I think you're on the right track, but just pick someone and go with it until you have more information. Ask that person questions, try to determine their alignment from their responses, then move on to the next scummy player if you feel it's warranted.

[Wraith223]

Focus, Wraith. Who do you want to lynch? Talk about them. Reminding us with every post of your entire T/S list is tiresome. I think you're on the right track, but just pick someone and go with it until you have more information. Ask that person questions, try to determine their alignment from their responses, then move on to the next scummy player if you feel it's warranted.

I said Fate is our target. He has hand waved, ignored, or been aggresive with questions. The guy is scum.

[( G_R )]

Not enough people are voting Suga.

[Stardust]

Gotta admit, I'm tempted.

[Void]

@Wraith:
I'm considered an aggressive player regardless of alignment on MTGS.

I have ignored questions/not answered them because I was being stubborn as both Town and Scum.

I ask you, Wraith, what makes those characteristics mutually a Scum mindset?

[Stardust]

Is that why you're ignoring questions now?

[zemanjaski]

Down to lynch Suga or Void. Back to null on imopen2. Fate has my head spinning.

[Wraith223]

@Wraith:
I'm considered an aggressive player regardless of alignment on MTGS.

I have ignored questions/not answered them because I was being stubborn as both Town and Scum.

I ask you, Wraith, what makes those characteristics mutually a Scum mindset?

Being Stubborn is fine as Zem is the poster child for it. The issue is found when getting called scum as stubberness is easily read as avoidance or ignoring of questions. Me being Stubborn to lynch a player for a scum tell is different that being stubborn in avoiding/ignoring someone that questioning a player for scum reads on self. One helps town and the other does not.

Droppinsuga is a waste of a vote right now people. We have players that are prime targets for scum
reads/votes with clear evidence. Quit fucking around and go after the players that have content that can be read as scum.

[Void]

@Stardust:
If you're going to approach me like that, then, yes, I will ignore your question. I just didn't see it prior to responding yo Wraith.

Discredit is not the right choice of word here. You are trying to force a Town slip through when it can be easily faked. I understand why you see as a Town Slip, but the motivation behind trying to force everyone to see the way you see it is not something I would expect a possible Town member to do let alone someone who is claiming to be the Doctor of the game.

The above has your follow-up answer.

[imopen2]

I think that's exactly what town would do. Firstly, the scum players don't know who is town or scum in this setup, so I kinda doubt stardust would work so hard to defend me if he were scum (the same way I wouldn't have defended freedom if I were scum), secondly, if a town player believes something, they SHOULD push that viewpoint.

You keep evading his attempts to get you to contribute. I haven't seen any reason to change my stance on you yet.

[imopen2]

They should push that viewpoint because if they don't, the scum will be persuading the rest of the town to mislynch

[Stardust]

@Stardust:
If you're going to approach me like that, then, yes, I will ignore your question. I just didn't see it prior to responding yo Wraith.

Why so defensive? I was basically just asking if you were being stubborn and reminding you that I do want answers.

Discredit is not the right choice of word here. You are trying to force a Town slip through when it can be easily faked. I understand why you see as a Town Slip, but the motivation behind trying to force everyone to see the way you see it is not something I would expect a possible Town member to do let alone
someone who is claiming to be the Doctor of the game.

I'm not really trying to push anything. I was perfectly happy believing in the town slip and perfectly happy with you disagreeing until I realised that you're probably lying. Either now or earlier. You say you understand why I think it's a town slip (as you said before), but somewhere in the middle you suddenly realised that this game has two scum teams which is the entire basis of the slip. So really, I don't understand how you can say now that you understood what I was talking about when you clearly realised later.

[imopen2]

Or he "realized" later. That vote/Unvote for wraith did not feel stream-of-consciousness to me. It felt like a fake-slip.

[Stardust]

Or that, yes.

[Manders]

Wraith, you just suck. And are likely still scum.

More later.