Primer: R/w/x Aggro

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:26 pm

I liked your deck Dountless much more than MDU's - hope you dont mind crytique MDU ;P.

It is much more consistent in my opinion, everything can be cast on curve what is important. What is phoenix for in sb?

I like Satyr Nyx - Smith in sb for control matchups. Army in a can style card seems good.

What about full burn option game 1? Make all opponents creature removal bad, then have transformation sb to creature deck that gets value from spells - YP and Satyr Firedancer?

IMO attacking metagame from angle that nobody will be prepared for is the best option. If spot removal is good (mono black), play hard to answer permanents that deals damage or makes mass of tokens and burn. Assemble the legion, Mogis (the god), chandra phoenix. That makes half of mono black deck bad - creature removal is lackluster, thoughtseize most of the time is getting burn etc.

Then play Stormbreath Dragon instead of assemble vs uw, plus get
even more lifegain prevention and card advantage from sb - dunno about you but I cant remember to be loosing vs uw or black with erebos on board.

Ah and as for agressive matchups I recommend to get some kind of roadblocks in sb (YP or reckoner) or this new Satyr Firedrinker (but both satyr and YP dies from burn ;/)

Also remember this color combo gives us access to stuff like blood baron - good vs UW and mono black and agro.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:46 am

@dauntless268: Looks Solid, I think with 15 "scry" sources 24 lands and 6 Terrors woulds work. I would recommend BBV over Flame-Wreathed Phoenix in this version because its weaker too Bx devotion without the other BR creatures (though you may need vaults to protect it from devour flesh).

EDIT: Ok, we should just take the full-blown Esper Human approach except we're burn

- we'll keep vaults to dodge devour and far // away and run 4x WLH and 2x BBV to compensate for the life-loss (we'll need 25 lands for this though) I'll see what I can do but great improvements so far (dauntless268 do you have access to the clan page? we can move the discussion their until the list is finalized or just via pm).

@Pedros: criticism is welcomed when combined with reasoning or alternate options.

Last Time

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6664475)
Standard
Elimination R1 Almost Boros Burn vs Bx Devotion Event 6664475
Standard Elimination R2 Almost Boros Burn vs GW Aggro Event 6664475
Standard Elimination R3 Split

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:14 am

@Pedros: criticism is welcomed when combined with reasoning or alternate options.

That is why I post my last post. Good that you agree on BBoV being good in sb vs black (dunno about UV as it is blank vs aetherling, however dodges most removal).

What do you guys think about not playing creatures other than phoenixes and play more burn? Then play high impact creatures like dragon, blood baron and YP/satyr firedancer in sb when they take out spot removal?
As for Terrors, I like having 6, however dunno about chain to the rocks with access to black - bounced, detention sphered, peak eruptioned, it scares me too much. Also it doesnt hit dragon and it might hurt.

Edit:

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:28 am

@pedros- I was thinking about something similar today but reversed. Against black start with high power white creatures (for my deck it would be Brimaz, but for dega BBoV) then board them out and Chandra in for 2nd game, when they side in their LBZ and creature hate, which can now only hit phoenix or 1cmc creatures. Decider if it happens is then mindgames on if you bring BBoV back or not.

Against green sideboard in the burn satyr and searing blood for value city

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:33 am

@poppa_f: I don't understand the logic in removing BBV G2-3 vs Bx Devotion... they can't even target it with with anything beside flesh which they'll keep as a 4x through all 3 games.

Quick update: testing with 25x Lands version of Dega with BBV and SBD and it is going well, I'm questioning the value of Chandra right now since I think her slot is better used for Witches for every MU except Ux, Small Red and Esper Aggro.

I'm also worried about the new RG god, he seems very powerful - almost to the point where I may run Revoke Existence. . .

I'll update the public forum with the list when I get more games in, hopefully I'll get the post transfer from Johnny by then as well (Johnny can you change the name into Rwx Aggro?)

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:49 am

What kind of witches in 4 slot?

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:58 pm

I think he means Fate Unraveler but I'm not sure

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:40 pm

Exava

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:41 pm

@poppa_f: I don't understand the logic in removing BBV G2-3 vs Bx Devotion... they can't even target it with with anything beside flesh which they'll keep as a 4x through all 3 games.

Because they sideboard in all of their lifebane zombies

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:43 pm

I'm also worried about the new RG god, he seems very powerful - almost to the point where I may run Revoke Existence. . .

It's a healthy fear. I've played against it in proxy games and it's seriously brutal. If it becomes a staple in the Gruul archetype then revoke existence will be mandatory sideboard tech

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:08 pm

Ah forgor about Exava is an Rakdos's Witch.

dauntless268 · Postby **dauntless268** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:03 pm

@Pedros: criticism is welcomed when combined with reasoning or alternate options.
What do you guys think about not playing creatures other than phoenixes and play more burn? Then play high impact creatures like dragon, blood baron and YP/satyr firedancer in sb when they take out spot removal?

it looks good in theory, but in practice it means G1 you have no option of burning their creatures and winning with SBD but ALWAYS have to go to the face, which is not a very healthy approach against at least Rx and Ux Devo, possibly others as well...

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:47 pm

I think he meant postboard.

It's a legitimate strategy and one I have been successful with before in the black devotion matchup.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:30 pm

Yep by witch I meant Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch.

Last Time

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6670284)
Standard Elimination R1 Almost Boros Burn vs Bx Devotion Event 6670284
Standard Elimination R2 Almost Boros Burn vs Ux Devotion Event 6670284
Standard Elimination R3 Split

I don't really think these next few videos will be interesting, though on Thursday onward will be pre-BnG test decks:

Thu-Fri =
Big Burn
Mon = Rb Aggro
Tue = Dega Burn
etc... etc...

Deht · Postby **Deht** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:00 pm

MDU - how's the matchup of Almost Boros Burn against G/R Monsters / Big Guys / whatever you want to call it?

I'm trying to figure out what I want to run at a tournament on the 22nd and I'm leaning towards one of the Rw lists. Expecting around 35% Bx, 20% UW/Esper Control, 20% G/R, and the rest a mixture of Ux, Esper Aggro, brews. Any thoughts / input / suggestions? Trying to decide which to go with this week to start getting as much practice in as possible.

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:26 pm

The Dos Rakis list would be best in that meta. Against B/x and UW you'll want an explosive start and against G/R a ton of terror-effect removal, Dos Rakis does all of these well. As a bonus you get Toil // Trouble out of the board, which is a beating for control

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:35 pm

Yep by witch I meant Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch.

I don't really think these next few videos will be interesting, though on Thursday onward will be pre-BnG test decks:

Thu-Fri = Big Burn
Mon = Rb Aggro
Tue = Dega Burn
etc... etc...

Can't wait 'til Monday, post Rb Aggro urgently

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:23 am

Now that we have the RB temple I can't help but think that Dega midrange can finally be a thing. Thoughts? Just play really good creatures like Reckoner, Exava, Blood Baron, etc, cards like Rakdos's Return, and tons of removal?

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:29 am

Do you realky think having 12 temples rather than 8 makes that big of a difference?

@ MDU very interested in the Rakdos video.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:33 am

Yeah like everyone up also interested in rakdos.

To play something else I played mono black agro ... and liked it very much. Deck isnt as good right now as it might be in future, however thoughtseize in agressie strat = so nice.

Playing with demon, dont like the fact it is so controlable by stuff like assemble the legions and elspeth, I cant hit those cards with seize. Both 1 drops are good in this shell, as you can seize and strip them of roadblocker. I lack CA right now and a little bit of reach, might try specters over lifebane zombie in md, also maybe 2 connections?

Looking forward dega midrange, like the fact that dragon, baron and assemble, every one of them in the same spot on curve and in colors can win vs different game on its own.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:35 am

I don't think Dega's problems have been addressed: Lack of good 2 and/or 4 drops.

The deck also doesn't have a plan. Play the best spells is usually a plan but that's not what dega's doing. It's playing boros reckoner and hoping that byes enough time for generic top ends that can all be anwered by whatever the black deck feels like playing and there's neither a thragtusk nor an aggressive draw that instantly stabalizes your or puts you in the drivers seat.

The best things the deck has to offer are war leaders helix, elspeth, and Whip/Obzedat. Everything else from dega mid generally falls into the "worse something else" category.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:04 am

Do you realky think having 12 temples rather than 8 makes that big of a difference?

@ MDU very interested in the Rakdos video.

No, I think having access to RB temple in particular is. This allows you to play white as a splash with better mana than before.

LP may be right since I know he tested the deck early in the season. I just think any deck playing Blood Baron has a shot.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:26 am

Dega aggro is very possible and it would most likely make the Bx Devotion MU a bye (which is nice), I've been betting $6 and winning with crappy pre-BnG ports so I can vouch for it (Keep in mind, I build most of my list to run my favorite spell types (Burns) so its differs to the usual Dega style).

In regards to Rb, I think its solid for the same reason as above: making the Bx Devotion MU a bye, your plan is to abuse RB hybrid creatures to dodge half the removal they run, RB creature also happen to have haste so the Control MU end up being great as well.

The only thing which makes my 2nd guess running Rb is the "terror" balancing act you have to play with your SB + MD (this is esp. true against Ux) and the limited room you get for Burn spells or utility spells.

@Deht: I would take Big Burn against Gr, Almost burn is decent but your Ash end up being a dead card most the game.

@All, if you have time just
click on my videos leave them on mute and just let the playlist run - it gives me extra money, which makes me happy, which encourages me to test more wacky brews

Crims0n · Postby **Crims0n** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:34 am

been running MDU's almost boros burn deck but - 2 muta - 2 guildgates + temple of silence. been running really good. how do you like it for BNG?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:47 am

been running MDU's almost boros burn deck but - 2 muta - 2 guildgates + temple of silence. been running really good. how do you like it for BNG?

Go buy two more Mutavault

Almost Boros Burn will be good post BnG (very little changes) if anything it may even better esp. if G and R get wiped out (which they won't), the main issue is the effectiveness of Assemble vs Bx Devotion - finding something to fill that gap is going to be challenging (my solution is to burn it with fire, if that doesn't work just burn it some more...).

Crims0n · Postby **Crims0n** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:59 am

I like 2 vaults in non mono color decks but i can definitely see why more would be good. I just love scrylands lol. Anything worth boarding in BNG? searing blood seems like a neat side deck.

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:39 am

Fated conflagration for obzedat and other 5 toughness fatties
Satyr Firedancer for G/x (and combos nicely with searing blood)
Revoke existence for opposing gods

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:42 am

I wanted to point out:

Fated conflagration is bad, but I would run 1x MD over Mortars if Esper Aggro gets past Post BnG (I think it will its still darn solid).
Revoke Existence: like all reactive cards is bad (glare makes it since it hits walkers and creatures as well) we'll ONLY run it if Gr proves too much (I'm not so sure that is the case (yet...)).
Searing Blood: is bad in Standard, small aggro make up a very small part of the meta game and is forecaster to be even smaller post BnG - just run Shock.
Satyr Firedancer: fights for the same position as Boros Reckoner, Boros Reckoner is good by himself, Satyr Firedancer needs support, what is better? (I have championed Satyr Firedancer before, but that is only in the contest of Ux
and Esper Aggro)

Flame-wreathed Phoenix: isn't a MD card choice but as a SB vs Ux and Gx Devotion its a monster, I believe this card needs more credit.
Mogis, God of Slaughter: another card which is better then it looks, how many times have you won your game just swinging with one Chandra's Phoenix? Imagine if it can't be killed or blocked... that is what Mogis, God of Slaughter is.

- - - - - - - -

Update for Rb fans, I've refined the list and took another 3-0 beating Bx Devotion, UW Control and Gr (piloted by top200 member) - it will be much stronger post-BnG.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:31 am

Refined? How?

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:40 am

As for RB creatures safety from removal - remember most lists are going from ultimate prices and dooblades and play more bile blights. That means small creatures can be killed on curve, plus under the curve with Dark Betrayal (4 in sb)...

If u can MDU pm me you latest post - BtG dega and mono black agro so I can playtest irl and get more info.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:51 am

I'm fairly sure we'll see about 2-3 bile blights max, if we do see 4x then we won't see Drown - either way if they pack too much removal we'll just kill them with burn (yes.. burn is my answer to all the hard problems Esper Midrange, Ux Devotion, Bx Devotion and Tokens).

@Pedros: I'll keep those in the clan thread for now, since most people just call them terribad list instantly when I post them in the public forums

. Once I win a few more times with em I'll post the list (at least the pre-BnG version) with the videos.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:03 am

Yeah Burn will be good if we can also produce Threats that doesnt die to common removals (such as bile blight). Dragon might get better, as it will be killed by hero's downfall only (list I saw run 4 blights)

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:48 pm

What do you guys think about Herald of Torment in the R/b list? The life loss isn't such a big deal unless you are playing against red or aggro and good for tempo if you use it as a bestow (also bestowed on to Exava is pretty sweet, as very few creatures can kill her blocking)

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:55 pm

He has a spot in more Black version of an deck or more midrange, but slower (more tap lands to develop mana) version.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:06 pm

DosPakis showing up in TCG article

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11631

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:13 pm

Yup and nothing innovative, just the oldest list we used: http://mtgo-stats.com/decks/87090.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:06 am

Last Time

Standard Elimination Report (Event 6670284)
Standard Elimination R1 Almost Boros Burn vs Boss Red Event 6670284
Standard Elimination R2 Almost Boros Burn vs UW Control Event 6656305
Standard Elimination R3 Split

Yaaay! All the "Almost Boros Burn" list have finally been uploaded

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:54 am

What are people thought on Mogis, God of Slaughter when it comes to Rwb burn? I like him, but I struggle to come to terms which running a card which will NEVER be activated - he is good in the slow grind games though.

For the RW I'm really trying to find that 'special' creature which I can run with my Chandra's Phoenix and Stormbreath Dragon, I'm going with Rakdos Cackler but I wish we had a another creatures to go along with it (if only Satyr Nyx-Smith was a 3-1).

I think I'll try 2x Spark Trooper MD, having haste and being a hybrid card really acts in its favor - I was planning on Good old Bones, but its seems like trooper is just better most of the time.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:21 pm

I like Mogis a lot but I really don't know if there is room in the deck for a 4cc one sided Sulfuric Vortex/removal spell, especially as they get to choose.

Do you mean in addition to Cackler, Phoenix and SBD? I still like Ash as she gives you the chance to curve out but Spark Trooper is really good and well worth testing. I ran him in one of the early Burn incarnations and the life swing is insane! I'll be interested to hear how he works out. I think the new Phoenix is worth a look too, though I don't like the lack of guaranteed haste.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:34 pm

I like Mogis a lot but I really don't know if there is room in the deck for a 4cc one sided Sulfuric Vortex/removal spell, especially as they get to choose.

Do you mean in addition to Cackler, Phoenix and SBD? I still like Ash as she gives you the chance to curve out but Spark Trooper is really good and well worth testing. I ran him in one of the early Burn incarnations and the life swing is insane! I'll be interested to hear how he works out. I think the new Phoenix is worth a look too, though I don't like the lack of guaranteed haste.

I just dislike 2 power when it comes too ground creatures, I have thought about going 2-4x FDS (since I value the pump ability) but I can't test that on MODO since I'll just lose to Rx (I know Cackler is
also 2/2 but he is best 1-drop in Red for the current meta).

Dies to Removal

Primer: R/w/x Aggro

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