[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[LP, of the Fires]

I learned it in 9th grade.

[zemanjaski]

7th Grade for me. Its not part of the new national curriculum that they're trying to introduce though IIRC.

[LP, of the Fires]

I think all brewing of non-agro decks should start at either Elspeth or Thoughtseize and go from there.

[TBuzzsaw]

I'm still holding out on a good 1 or 2 drop red creature this set.

Firedrinker Satyr
Foundry Street Denizen
Legion Loyalist
Rakdos Cackler

The problem isn't our 1 drops, they're amazing. The problem is mono U maindecks 16 hate cards (Frostburn Weird, Master of Waves, Nightveil Spectre, Tidebinder Mage).

That's why black aggro is interesting; you sidestep most of thise issues.

Am I crazy for wanting something like this:

RR
Haste
2/1
When ____ enters the battlefield, _____ deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
When ____ dies, ____ deals 2 damage
to target creature or player.

[zemanjaski]

Yep. That card isn't in reality.

[TBuzzsaw]

2 when it dies may be a little much. Make it just 1 instead and take away haste and I'll still be happy.

[zemanjaski]

Murderous Redcap costs 4. Compare.

[Yarpus]

Thanks for info!


This guy... this guy is really strong. Much better than phoenix. Phoenix has that little issue of either being easy to kill for people with removal ready or not-impactfull-enough for people without removal. I'd say Minotaur relies much less on your opponent's resources and decision. He's a huge beatstick or lesser beatstick with free Spear.

... if only Spiritbinder would have Haste tho.

[deck]Creatures (24):
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Oracle of Bones

Spells (14):
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 High-Impact Burn
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (22):
2 Mutavault
20 Mountain[/deck]

If for some magical reason people would refuse to play Mono B, I'd play the shit out of this deck.
Splashing White
to become Walter White and have access to Chained to the Rocks/Spirit of the Labirynth/Warleader's Helix would be cool.

[TBuzzsaw]

Murderous Redcap costs 4. Compare.

Almost guaranteed 2 damage on a weak body for double red isn't asking for too much is it.

[LP, of the Fires]

2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Angel of Serenity
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Experiment One
3 Domri Rade


Experiment ones could be soldiers of the pantheon and the Angel of Serenity isn't necessary.

[LP, of the Fires]

Dealing 1 damage is worth about 1/2 to 1/3 of a mana. Dealing 2 damage is worth 1. As additional affects on cards though, dealing a damage is worth a whole mana and 2 damage is between R and 1R.

[TBuzzsaw]

2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Angel of Serenity
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Experiment One
3 Domri Rade


Experiment ones could be soldiers of the pantheon and the Angel of Serenity isn't necessary.

I like the potential of this list.

[magicdownunder]

Thanks for info!


This guy... this guy is really strong. Much better than phoenix. Phoenix has that little issue of either being easy to kill for people with removal ready or not-impactfull-enough for people without removal. I'd say Minotaur relies much less on your opponent's resources and decision. He's a huge beatstick or lesser beatstick with free Spear.

... if only Spiritbinder would have Haste tho.

[deck]Creatures (24):
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Oracle of Bones

Spells (14):
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 High-Impact Burn
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

nLands (22):
2 Mutavault
20 Mountain[/deck]

If for some magical reason people would refuse to play Mono B, I'd play the shit out of this deck.
Splashing White to become Walter White and have access to Chained to the Rocks/Spirit of the Labirynth/Warleader's Helix would be cool.

I was thinking about pairing Oracle of Bones with Warleader's Helix, it seems good, esp. against control but the */1-3 is an issues in a format with Boros Reckoner.

Though Bx Devotion may hate out the devotion decks so we may see less Boros Reckoner which means oracle could be insane in a black world.

[Pedros]

Another big hasty guy that can be bigger or grant you free spell. I like it much more than phoenix.

However I see it in bigger version, even more haste than before! Phoenix -> Exava/Oracle -> Dragon.

Also Exava grants haste to every Tribute card. Interesting ...

[zemanjaski]

Exava was already good, but gets even better now.

[DerWille]

Thanks for info!


This guy... this guy is really strong. Much better than phoenix. Phoenix has that little issue of either being easy to kill for people with removal ready or not-impactfull-enough for people without removal. I'd say Minotaur relies much less on your opponent's resources and decision. He's a huge beatstick or lesser beatstick with free Spear.

... if only Spiritbinder would have Haste tho.

[deck]Creatures (24):
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash
Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Oracle of Bones

Spells (14):
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 High-Impact Burn
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (22):
2 Mutavault
20 Mountain[/deck]

If for some magical reason people would refuse to play Mono B, I'd play the shit out of this deck.
Splashing White to become Walter White and have access to Chained to the Rocks/Spirit of the Labirynth/Warleader's Helix would be cool.

I was thinking about pairing Oracle of Bones with Warleader's Helix, it seems good, esp. against control but the */1-3 is an issues in a format with Boros Reckoner.

Though Bx Devotion may hate out the devotion decks so we may see less Boros Reckoner which means oracle could be insane in a black world.

Think this guy could have a home in a Boros Burn list? Boros Charm, [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], and Lava Axe (I know it's a bit deep) all
seem like reasonable spells to try and cheat out with it. Theoretically threatens 5, 7, or 8 points of damage in a single turn.

[windstrider]

If you're going there, then Act of Treason would be good with the Oracle.

I can't sleep.

[zemanjaski]

Review my article and give feedback?? Y/Y?

[windstrider]

Send it my way. I can at least look it over.

I hadn't committed to it because of all the craziness happening around me: new baby, sick toddler, and now possibly a sick teenager. That is in addition to the backlog of grading waiting for me.

[DerWille]

If you're going there, then Act of Treason would be good with the Oracle.

I can't sleep.

Not a bad idea. I can see that being a huge blow out against midrange.

Also, my buddy who plays mono-green took an interest in this card:



He's won quite a few games with Enlarge and it feels like a similar sort of card. It's not quite as big but the card draw just might make up for that. He's always complaining that he runs out of steam late game and has been hunting for cards that give him more.

I'm a bit more dubious on it. I don't
know if those games were won because Enlarge is legitimately good or his opponents were blindsided by it. He likes it because it lets him finish the game.

[zemanjaski]

It's more of a randomly good singleton than anything.

My guy tells me UG Flash as the ultra poor man's neuveaux SplinterTwin.

EOT Shambleshark! Hunter's Prowess! Draw 5! Lose anyway!

[DerWille]

I can get behind the randomly good singelton idea. Fleetfeather Sandals has been doing that for him this season. Late game, Sandals are on the field, plays a Kalonian Hydra, equip, 8/8 Hydra is now flying at your ass. It's funny to see the more competitive types rage when they die to that dinky little common.

[magicdownunder]

Being fair that card does improves Mono-G good MUs e.g. other Aggro or removal lite mid-range decks (not sure why you'll want to improve your good MUs but yeah...).

[zemanjaski]

Don't get me wrong, I like the card.

[DerWille]

It helps his weaker ones too. The big one was Esper control where sandals eventually lead to a stream of 5+/5+ monsters with haste.

The other consideration was that for awhile my local meta was literally Mono-Green vs Mono-Black in the top 4~8 with the occasional red deck (aka me). Being able to leg up your mono-green opponent as relevant.

[zemanjaski]

Thinking about PyroDragons that curves up to Elspeth. No 1 drops.

[Khaospawn]

Thinking about PyroDragons that curves up to Elspeth. No 1 drops.

Check out the winning Standard list from the last SCG Open.

[magicdownunder]

Thinking about PyroDragons that curves up to Elspeth. No 1 drops.

I've been calling it Rw Tokens, its not bad I fought it a few times.

[DerWille]

Thinking about PyroDragons that curves up to Elspeth. No 1 drops.

I feel naked without my one drops...

[Pedros]

Deck is good, however I made a lot of changes to make it better against UW and black.

I cut YP. You say hello, but count number of spells he casts. 4 jets, 4 strikes, 2 mortars and 2 helixes. It is not enought in my testing, it was too many times just 2/1. Vs black you would like to put early pressure, however at the same time you would like to get value of YP.
I changed them to Ash zealot, it made uw and black matchups better, and allowed to animate purporos more.

As for manabase, I calculated everything according to Frank Karsten article from CFB and his manabase was a little of. Changed to more white sources and 3 mutavaults, and now it solves everything that was in article.

As for md/sb. You sb elspeth in close to every matchup, so I just put it in md over 1 helix, however it might now be as good as it seems. Needs more testing.

Sb is where spice begin.

Chandras Outrage over mortar to kill dragons/
barons instant speed that also damages my op. Is quite nice vs Esper Control where you can still dome elapeth token to do some damage.
1 Blind Obedience over 3rd Anger. Blind obedience helps dragon amd phoenixes problem, wins token mirrors, gets you life etc. Also helps vs ObzedAt, as it is unkillable in this deck with 1 for 1.

Added Legions Initiative / Spear of Heliod to help against Jace. Spear helps elspeth tokens, but LI acts as pseudo boros charm.

Deck is bad against thoughtseize, but without it black is really easy.

Thats are my thoughts, based on around 50 matches with it. Most likely some would be criticised by winner of SCG, but also I had different problems with this deck va mtgo meta.

As for Champs, I faced multiple close to non existing decks in event and went 4-4.

Lost to Naya Tokens (1%)
Rg monsters (who the hell have double rampagers and 3 dragons in 13 cards or 2 dragons, rampager and flesh/blood in 12

Faced only 1 mono black...

[MattT]

Orcale of Bones look ok'sh for MonoRed iterations, but there´s something annoying with being forced to cast stuff. A Red Mages gut reaction towards orders I guess. Not to mention that it messes with combat tactics.

[magicdownunder]

Orcale of Bones look ok'sh for MonoRed iterations, but there´s something annoying with being forced to cast stuff. A Red Mages gut reaction towards orders I guess. Not to mention that it messes with combat tactics.

I don't think Orcale is strong in a traditional Rx list which mixes aggressive creatures with burn, its more for the Burn orientated list which want to point everything at dome anyways (like Boros Charm and Helix MD).

[F.I.A]

Oracle of Bones is a fixed Bloodbraid Elf. Unlike the one before it, it doesn't net you a card for your trouble. However, the treat of any sorcery/instant is indeed gravy.

Unless you have no card in hand, seems like you will be getting a 5/3 haste for 4 most of the time. A rather good bargain, in fact, I have to agree with others, this is oddly better than the phoenix than the other way round.

Note: Remember it's not Red sorcery and instant, so go for broke with it.

[Kaitscralt]

I'm pretty sure it's just not good.

[zemanjaski]

Updated Mono U list after talking to Sam Pardee. Quote "Mono U Devotion is basically White Weenie with blue cards - so they're actually good".

I'm sold.

[deck]Mono U Devotion[/deck]
Creatures
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Master of Waves
4 Nightveil Spectre
4 Tidebinder Mage

4 Thassa, God of the Sea

Planeswalkers
1 Jace, Architect of Thought

Artifacts
2 Bident of Thassa

Other
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Domestication
2 Rapid Hybridization

Lands
4 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
20 Island

Sideboard
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Curse of Swine
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dissolve
1 Domestication
4 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Rapid Hybridization
[/deck]

Changes:
- Domestication
back to the maindeck
- Slightly different counterspell package now

The new counterspell, Thassa's Rebuff, is interesting, but surely worse than actual hard counters. Fated Infatuation is interesting, but I don't think necessary.

Can provide a sideboard guide if anyone wants it.

[Kaitscralt]

Don't play either of those blue cards you already said you aren't playing.

[RedNihilist]

Updated Mono U list after talking to Sam Pardee. Quote "Mono U Devotion is basically White Weenie with blue cards - so they're actually good".

I'm sold.

[deck]Mono U Devotion[/deck]
Creatures
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Master of Waves
4 Nightveil Spectre
4 Tidebinder Mage

4 Thassa, God of the Sea

Planeswalkers
1 Jace, Architect of Thought

Artifacts
2 Bident of Thassa

Other
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Domestication
2 Rapid Hybridization

Lands
4 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
20 Island

Sideboard
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Curse of Swine
1 Cyclonic Rift
1
Dissolve
1 Domestication
4 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Rapid Hybridization
[/deck]

Changes:
- Domestication back to the maindeck
- Slightly different counterspell package now

The new counterspell, Thassa's Rebuff, is interesting, but surely worse than actual hard counters. Fated Infatuation is interesting, but I don't think necessary.

Can provide a sideboard guide if anyone wants it.

*raises hand*
I'm the one stroking your ego!
Provide the guide altogether!

[redthirst]

redthirst,

There is occasionally some friendly jabs that are aimed at "casual" players, but there is a fine line between good-natured joking and flaming. Calling people "damn dirty casuals" is certainly borderline, so in the future I and the other mods would appreciate it if you moderate your language.

Thanks,
cryo

Dafuq?

[photodyer]

[QUOTE1=cryogen]redthirst,

There is occasionally some friendly jabs that are aimed at "casual" players, but there is a fine line between good-natured joking and flaming. Calling people "damn dirty casuals" is certainly borderline, so in the future I and the other mods would appreciate it if you moderate your language.

Thanks,
cryo[/QUOTE1]


Dafuq?

Obviously has not seen the Charlton Heston classic and is missing the pop culture reference and thus the humorous tenor that you intended. Damn dirty mods should keep their filthy hands off and let the natural order settle things out.

[redthirst]

No 1 drops.

Pretty sure that's the direction I'm going with Rb Aggro.