[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[RedNihilist]

Good 4 CMC Planeswalker?
Tell me more about it :0

[DarthStabber]

What 4 mana walker?

What 6 mana finisher?

[zemanjaski]

Jace, Architect of Thought...

[Yarpus]

Fuck Grave Titan. Not oppresive enough. He could at least be killed by wraiths and his impact severly reduced by removing him.
I remember when people started playing Frost Titan over him. You tap big guy, screw small dudes and you get auto-Pierce for removal. FT was winning UB mirrors.

New Jace is good. He's no Mindsculptor - but he has impact, draws cards and if game gets stalled, he is capable of winning it. DUH.
But yeah, Aetherling costs 7.

Fucking silly gooses.

[Khaospawn]

I keep looking at the spoilers and I keep thinking that Mono Red is just getting shit on. Sad face.

Bile Blight? Fuck, man....

[RedNihilist]

Jace, Architect of Thought...

God, I was too focused on black

[Khaospawn]

Instant speed board wipe for White...hmmm....

[zemanjaski]

I approve of the term "silly gooses".

[Yarpus]

It's not about Red getting a shaft. We are used to that.
It's more about giving cards like Bile Blight to others so they can completely screw us over while still playing totally-not-narrow cards.

[zemanjaski]

We had 18 months of red being Tier 1 to Tier 1.5. When was the last time MBC was Tier 1? Meh.

Things break, they heal

[Khaospawn]

I know that Red's power level drops with each set released. I just didn't imagine other colors would be getting such really powerful cards so soon.

They see me Boltin', they hatin'.

[zemanjaski]

Print a strictly better drownyard dammit.

[MattT]

Say hello to Erebos little helper:

Fate Unraveler [mana]3b[/mana]
Enchantment Creature - Hag (R)
Whenever an opponent draws a card, Fate Unreveler deals 1 damage to that player.
3/4

Underworld Dreams on legs. I like it

[redthirst]

I think I need some Gruul up inside of me.

[F.I.A]

@ Searing Blood: Oh look. A reverse [card]Pharika's Cure[/card]

It will have as much use as the aforementioned card, or perhaps a little more for being 3 damage to the dome. I will like the feeling when I burn off an opposing Phoenix and get mine back with just [mana]rr[/mana] at instant speed.

Of course, with Drown in Sorrow, toughness of 2 might not be as ideal as it used to.

[DroppinSuga]

A new Frownyard would be gorgeous

[Dechs Kaison]

My sig feels inadequate now. I'll need to do something about that.

[zemanjaski]

Man, Gruul and Rakdos look like winners so far.

Of course, Rakdos aggro might just be completely unplayable; Drown in Sorrow turns what would otherwise be a great MBC matchup into a middling one (probably still a tiny but favourable and better than that post board); mono u is only average and your mono red will be actively bad. Control will be excellent of course, but will there be enough control?

A better view may be to be very slightly more midrangey; supplementing the beatdown plan with disruption and CA engines, a la Zen vamps. Young Pyro just won't be good anymore, and that's just fine. Pack Rat seems much worse too with the new Echoing Decay variant. This really means that if you want to play beatdown, you need:
- cards that don't play into your opponents 1-for-1 plan
- ways to generate CA that can't be easily removed (walkers, enchantments, Artifacts)

Now, I like Rakdos because it's just naturally better
than Gruul against both mono blue devotion and Ux control.

Red creatures with black splash? Black creatures with red splash?

I think it's time for black creatures plus red splash honestly. I really like the idea of Xathrid Necromancer; it's good against aggro and control. Black opens up Mogis's Marauder which lets you race Mono U too.

What CA engines? Can you afford to maindeck Underworld Connections? Probably not in most meta. But you'll want some in the 75.

Maybe there's a UB Heroic deck? Agent of Fates, Artisan of Forms, Triton Treasure Hunter? Triton Tactics is good and untaps Pain Seer...

Tap Island
Triton Tactics targeting Agent of Fates and Pain Seer
You sac a guy, I draw a card
Block and eat your guy
Etc.

Mmmm UB tempo....

[F.I.A]

Yeah, with Infest coming back, Pyro might not be as ideal after BNG. Sure, there is Anger of gods, but red doesn't have a 6/6 flier to beat your face with.

[Jack]

Red actually might be slightly better versus the meta, as one can speculate that the increasing power of black will hate blue devotion out of the meta to a degree.

[redthirst]

Fate, what we thinkin?

[deck]Creatures: 34
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Gyre Sage
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fanatic of Xenagos
3 Boon Satyr
1 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Xenagos, God of Revels

Planeswalkers: 4
4 Domri Rade

Lands: 22
22 Land
[/deck]

[Alex]

I'll be on whatever deck has 4x Blood Crypt and 4x RB scry. Rakdos's Return is amazing and I want it inside of me.

I may also splash white for some type of shenanigans involving Obzedat but we'll see.

[redthirst]

I'll be on whatever deck has 4x Blood Crypt and 4x RB scry. Rakdos's Return is amazing and I want it inside of me.

I may also splash white for some type of shenanigans involving Obzedat but we'll see.

The slightly more Midrange Rakdos Aggro I've been thinking about plays Return MD:

[deck]
Creatures: 25
4 Pack Rat
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 10
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
7 Mountain
[/deck]

I dont know how good that is, but I don't think it cares about some lands ETB tapped or the new Infest too much and it plays Return like a champ.

[F.I.A]

Red actually might be slightly better versus the meta, as one can speculate that the increasing power of black will hate blue devotion out of the meta to a degree.

Red will still fold to superior mass removals like Drown in Sorrow, though. Most of the red dudes are */2s at most, not to mention their spectres can easily survive from drowning.

Still no card to make use of for burger king, though. If only Pseudo Mama was cheaper, she would be a rather decent zombie producer.

[Alex]

I'll be on whatever deck has 4x Blood Crypt and 4x RB scry. Rakdos's Return is amazing and I want it inside of me.

I may also splash white for some type of shenanigans involving Obzedat but we'll see.

The slightly more Midrange Rakdos Aggro I've been thinking about plays Return MD:

[deck]
Creatures: 25
4 Pack Rat
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 10
4 Lightning Strike
3
Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
7 Mountain
[/deck]

I don't know how good that is, but I don't think it cares about some lands ETB tapped or the new Infest too much and it plays Return like a champ.

I'm thinking more of a deck that plays Chandra and +0s their way to Valuetown. All creature removal plus some kind of win condition at 5 or 6.

Rakdos's Return and Chandra together are miserable, but that's the price you have to pay to play sweet spells.

[redthirst]

I'll be on whatever deck has 4x Blood Crypt and 4x RB scry. Rakdos's Return is amazing and I want it inside of me.

I may also splash white for some type of shenanigans involving Obzedat but we'll see.

The slightly more Midrange Rakdos Aggro I've been thinking about plays Return MD:

[deck]
Creatures: 25
4 Pack Rat
4 Spike Jester
4
Chandra's Phoenix
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 10
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
7 Mountain
[/deck]

I don't know how good that is, but I don't think it cares about some lands ETB tapped or the new Infest too much and it plays Return like a champ.

I'm thinking more of a deck that plays Chandra and +0s their way to Valuetown. All creature removal plus some kind of win condition at 5 or 6.

Rakdos's Return and Chandra together are miserable, but that's the price you have to pay to play sweet spells.

Two things:
1. Chandra gets significantly worse when you're running more answers than threats, and
2. Why is RR and Chandra bad?

[MattT]

Brainstorming on UB Tempo: looks tempting and we haven´t seen Phenax yet. Curve of Pain Seer//Artisan, Agent//Treasure Hunter and Duskmantle Seer is a sh*tload of utility.

Artisans ability to copy whatever they drop removal is a top notch wincon. The big question is what enabler? Triton Tactics is good, but feels reactive in a colour suite that has no issues with removal. A majority of Hidden Strings and an additional evasive guy to "carry the message"? (Judge´s Familiar?)

[Purp]

Anyone attending the PTQ in Tennessee this weekend?

[redthirst]

That reminds me - what the fuck, Khaos? How you going to let a little thing like a company audit keep you from Atlanta? Don't you know that's where the playas play? Don't you want to ride on them thangs like errery day?

[Alex]

RR isn't the kind of spell you want to cast right away, you'd rather hang onto it and accumulate mana, so flipping it with Chandra isn't ideal.

In a deck with enough answers, +0'ing Chandra until you stabilize is totally fine. It's how Legacy Jund plays her and with the new Infest and other removal spells you could conceivably do the same thing in RB.

[redthirst]

Your logic seems a little off - I mean, if you're going to descibe RR with Chandra as "miserable" because sometimes flipping it off the top isn't ideal, then how can you support playing Chandra in a deck full of reactive cards? Isn't holding an answer in your hand significantly more ideal than playing one at Sorcery speed off the top of the deck?

I'd hate to land Chandra against something like UB or UW Control (where it's usually an all-star) with mostly just a bunch of reactive cards in the deck.

[Alex]

The mainboard matchup against control will be bad no matter what, that's sometimes just how it goes. Their maindeck win condition (Aetherling) is going to be way more resilient than yours (Master of Cruelties more than likely, maybe Obzedat) and that's just something you're going to have to accept. Turn into a burn deck out of the board and it's easy street.

[RedNihilist]

RR isn't the kind of spell you want to cast right away, you'd rather hang onto it and accumulate mana, so flipping it with Chandra isn't ideal.

In a deck with enough answers, +0'ing Chandra until you stabilize is totally fine. It's how Legacy Jund plays her and with the new Infest and other removal spells you could conceivably do the same thing in RB.

Chandra is CMC 4, so on the next turn you'll have at least 4 mana at your disposal.
Purge the Profane was better than RR because you have to cast it for 4.
They fit perfectly together.

[RedNihilist]

Well, forget it: just go Dega with Chandra and Purge the Profane.

[Alex]

RR isn't the kind of spell you want to cast right away, you'd rather hang onto it and accumulate mana, so flipping it with Chandra isn't ideal.

In a deck with enough answers, +0'ing Chandra until you stabilize is totally fine. It's how Legacy Jund plays her and with the new Infest and other removal spells you could conceivably do the same thing in RB.

Chandra is CMC 4, so on the next turn you'll have at least 4 mana at your disposal.
Purge the Profane was better than RR because you have to cast it for 4.
They fit perfectly together.

Well played.

[hamfactorial]

[Alex]

[Alex]

Turning this thread into the mod lounge one post at a time.

[Khaospawn]

That reminds me - what the fuck, Khaos? How you going to let a little thing like a company audit keep you from Atlanta? Don't you know that's where the playas play? Don't you want to ride on them thangs like errery day?

As the head of my department, I have to be there. I'm pretty pissed and bummed out about it. Thinking about Richmond the following week as an alternative.

[redthirst]

Listen, you can't help that you came down with a stomach flu the night before your audit.