[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[TBuzzsaw]

I'm trying not to jump about the Mogis hype like I did for Purphoros for now since it's not a card I want to play against every deck. Definitely a good card though.

Phoenix, hmmm. I can see it being played, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't either.

[photodyer]

Playing a 5/5 for 4 is a Good Thing to Do in standard right now, so maybe it isn't as awful as it looks.

No protection; doesn't impact the board the turn it hits unless the opponent is stupid enough to let it go untouched.

WTF? Seriously, Kaze...look at our site banner. "DTR" is not meaningful card evaluation.

[TBuzzsaw]

Jesus Christ, I didn't think about the synergy with Exava. Consider me on board the Phoenix train in Rakdos.

[Calamity]

Playing a 5/5 for 4 is a Good Thing to Do in standard right now, so maybe it isn't as awful as it looks.

Keep in mind that Exava creates extra love for the Tribute mechanic...yes you can can either pay Tribute and get smacked by my hasted 5-power flyer or not pay it and get smacked by my hasted 3-pwer flyer who will come back after you kill it.

Oh HELL YES

okay I'm definitely going to playtest the phoenix is some RB brews now

[DarthStabber]

Do want mogis and phoenix, both awesome. Probably going to test phoenix in mono red, double birdies.

[Helios]

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that this is no Polukranos. But those are the feels it gives me as far as impact. Rarely is it like "Well shit, I guess he can kill my YP$", it's "OH SHIT A 5/5".

[DarthStabber]

And mogis may have a space in my grixis commander deck. Will rarely have the devotion, but the deck is already very "death by 1,000 cuts" and I am more interested in the ability.

[Kazekirimaru]

WTF? Seriously, Kaze...look at our site banner. "DTR" is not meaningful card evaluation.

But photo...it dies to removal.

Yeah, it's probably decent. Fuck if I can evaluate a card. I just play filthy causal magic.

[zemanjaski]

Or soul sisters, which is effectively an admission to not understanding competitive magic.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Mooooooooooooooooooogiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssss.

Mogis is solid. Forces opponent to remove a dude or take damage. Can fit in a rakdos control or modrange shell.

I'm a little on the fence on the phoenix. 5/5 flyer is good. A 3/3 haster that returns is good. Just hope it's not a 4-costing Vexing Devil

[photodyer]

I don't love the fact that the phoenix is Mythic...again my eval skills are twitchy, but given the punisher clause it seems reasonable if a little pushed at Rare. Then again, it would be a pretty OP card in Limited if it were showing up too often.

[Kazekirimaru]

Or soul sisters, which is effectively an admission to not understanding competitive magic.

I haven't played Soul Sisters in months. I just love whiteknighting it whenever it comes up. My currently put together Modern deck is Affinity.

That said, Soul Sisters beats off in your face, fuck off, etc.

[F.I.A]

We might as well just view the phoenix as a red 5/5 flier for 4cc. I just don't see how they will allow you to have uber persist haste flier with recurrence (Like, it can just stand up against a wrath effect while everything else crumbles). 5/5 might look like a lot back in the old days (Rathi Dragon for one), but these days powercreep is everywhere to worth the slot.

[photodyer]

Mooooooooooooooooooogiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssss.

Mogis is solid. Forces opponent to remove a dude or take damage. Can fit in a rakdos control or modrange shell.

I'm a little on the fence on the phoenix. 5/5 flyer is good. A 3/3 haster that returns is good. Just hope it's not a 4-costing Vexing Devil

No comparison. VD sucked because the opponent could take damage and you got zip in terms of board position. The phoenix is an evasive creature on either side of Tribute. The question the opponent has is clock vs. recurrence...they have a creature to deal with one way or the other.

[Calamity]

I don't love the fact that the phoenix is Mythic...again my eval skills are twitchy, but given the punisher clause it seems reasonable if a little pushed at Rare. Then again, it would be a pretty OP card in Limited if it were showing up too often.

I'm guessing limited is the reason it's mythic. The abilities just don't scream mythic otherwise since it's neither super exciting nor complicated

[zemanjaski]

Rarity isn't relevant to card evaluation.

I remind you that Brainstorm and Ponder are commons.

[F.I.A]

No comparison. VD sucked because the opponent could take damage and you got zip in terms of board position. The phoenix is an evasive creature on either side of Tribute. The question the opponent has is clock vs. recurrence...they have a creature to deal with one way or the other.

While a 5/5 is indeed a clock, I'm not fond with how it loses haste once its tribute is paid. You can actually view the choice as "5/5 flier" vs "3/3 flier with recurrence, and 3 damage to the head if you have no fliers".

[Kazekirimaru]

Or three damage to target creature with flying

Non-tributed Phoenix rocks my socks.

[zemanjaski]

VD was a lava spike variant, which is inherently bad; except it was a creature when you wanted lava spike, which is even worse.

Phoenix is good or good; it's just not clear if it's good enough

[zemanjaski]

Hell, I should write for a pro team website or something

[RaidaTheBlade]

I like the phoenix, though not sure what would be dropped in rakdos aggro for it e.e

Cause we'd want exavas, proly 3. It could replace dragon, but dragon is still super relevant.
We could try going more midrangey and dropping the 1-drops, and using the temple of malices and maybe a few other temples as extra scry...
We could also reduce some of the burn and kill spells, and go super aggro with 8 1-drops, jesters and shred-freaks or rats depending, c's phoenix, exavas and new phoenix, and dragon as a topper.

It'll have to get tested, I personally like the idea of going a bit more midrangey with it. We could even bring in a few desecration demons...
I might have to set up a demo build, based on current and as-of-now spoiled cards, cause why not...

[photodyer]

Rarity isn't relevant to card evaluation.

I remind you that Brainstorm and Ponder are commons.

I wasn't referring to rarity having any meaning with regards to how "good" a card may or may not be...I agree with you 100% that rarity can't define that which is dependent upon so many other factors in the meta. I was referring to the "creature formula" that the developers apply in card design...the basic concept that a vanilla 2/2 costs and so on and that the further you stray from that determines rarity assignment relative to overall cost.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Mooooooooooooooooooogiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssss.

Mogis is solid. Forces opponent to remove a dude or take damage. Can fit in a rakdos control or modrange shell.

I'm a little on the fence on the phoenix. 5/5 flyer is good. A 3/3 haster that returns is good. Just hope it's not a 4-costing Vexing Devil

No comparison. VD sucked because the opponent could take damage and you got zip in terms of board position. The phoenix is an evasive creature on either side of Tribute. The question the opponent has is clock vs. recurrence...they have a creature to deal with one way or
the other.

More comparing it on the same level of "will it be what we want it to be". Mind you this thing with tribute beats Stormy D in the air. The more i think on it the more I believe it is probably better than what it looks. Definitely want test with it.

[photodyer]

Hmmm...SCG has not deigned to post the new spoils for purchase as of yet, which means they will likely show up at some random hour during banker's hours US time. Frustrating.

[F.I.A]

_______What I will be getting most of the time_____________What I wanted it to be

[zemanjaski]

<3

[zemanjaski]

We know that 5/5s for 4 with a drawback are bad in black; but in red it's uncharted territory. Reds the colour that loves 2/1s for 2 after all.

[DarthStabber]

I'd still be interested in trying VD in modern or legacy burn, those decks already play lavaspikes, so why not? Probably more in modern since in legacy chain lightning is a thing. Probably still bad, but I have an unhealthy fondness for punishers. BotGs seems to be poised to deliver more of that as both mogis and phoenix show (especially with tribute as a named mechanic).

[RaidaTheBlade]

I derped out a demo build of a dos rakis midrangey thing in the clan area, if anybody wants to criticize me. It's actually fairly similar to something I was experimenting with before too.

Oh, also another great thing about the 5/5 phoenix option?
It straight up kills blood baron in a fight. (Admitably, they have kill spells, but still)

[zemanjaski]

It's very bad in both formats. Deathrite says hello.

[photodyer]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=174085#p174085:2efqpvtv]DarthStabber » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:19 am[/url:2efqpvtv]":2efqpvtv]I'd still be interested in trying VD in modern or legacy burn, those decks already play lavaspikes, so why not? Probably more in modern since in legacy chain lightning is a thing. Probably still bad, but I have an unhealthy fondness for punishers. BotGs seems to be poised to deliver more of that as both mogis and phoenix show (especially with tribute as a named mechanic).[/quote:2efqpvtv]

VD did have a narrow window of playability in Standard...if you search old Top 8 MODO lists from SOM/ISD, you will find a winning red list by some schmuck named zemanjaski that played VD in the main. The issue was that people kept trying to push the damn card in the face of all the lifegain that later entered the format.

[DarthStabber]

It's very bad in both formats. Deathrite says hello.

What kind of person lets card quality affect their deck construction?

[Kazekirimaru]

It's very bad in both formats. Deathrite says hello.

What kind of person lets card quality affect their deck construction?

Great card analysts, that's who.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Quick and dirty photoshop edit:
I have created an abomination!



I call it: "Flame-Wreathed Narwhal"

[DarthStabber]

I'm awake

[RaidaTheBlade]

But yeah, I like the phoenix. Depending on what it debuts at, I may grab a playset early.

I'd say if it debuts at more then $5 a pop, the I'd likely wait. It is mythic though, so dunno what they'll put it at. I think it has pretty good potential.


Ponies? Ooh, i haven't done that in forever. I am a recovering brony
(Community drove me off, haven't watched since mid season 2, but still have a passing interest)

[InflatablePie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73_ql_S11GE

I knew once I saw Young Pyro I should check the opponent's playername...

*watches*

[InflatablePie]

also sorry if that was posted, I don't dig through this thread because it's always like 5-10 new pages every day

[DarthStabber]

Yeah, my little pony is fine if you avoid the fans. Haven't finished season 3 yet, but I might someday.

[Kazekirimaru]

why are there ponies in the clan thread

what

why

what