[BNG] Nefarious Burn

[TubeHunter]

Nefarious Burn
1RRR
Instant
Deal 5 Damage to target creature or planeswalker. If you cast it on your turn, scry 2.


Thoughts?

I'm not ready to say its completely unplayable, but i'm really not seeing any scenario in which a red deck would want to play this, as the Triple red constricts this to mostly mono red and its variants.

[hamfactorial]

It's a mono-red answer to Obzedaddy and Elspeth / Chandra. Other than that, terrible. It will see play, but it shouldn't.

[zemanjaski]

Sideboarding in 4 mana terrors that don't actually kill everything sounds awesome.

[Midnight_v]

Trolling red for the evlulz.

[Mcdonalds]

Seems playable in some control shell

[magicdownunder]

If only this could hit players, then it might of seen Standard or even Modern burn play (why is it a rare) that tacked on Scry condition is just bad as well.

[Kazekirimaru]

give me ball lightning pls

if you're going to go RRR at least make it semi-playable

[Volition]

I am of the view that it is worse than Heroes downfall in absolutely every aspect - worse coloured mana requirements, more expensive and a conditional terror. Can that be made up for with a scry 2? It seems underpowered with the conditional scry 2.

The only good thing i will say about it is that it gets absolutely everything in the meta except for desecration demon. hitting jace and elspeth if they are crazy enough to tap out for it, but once again, why play answers to their win cons when you can just play more real threats

What are the thoughts on the red dragon promo card? no haste and 4 toughness makes this pretty unplayable in my mind. 6 for a 5/4, why oh why did they think that was fine when they hand out 5/5's for 4 and 6/6's for 4

[zemanjaski]

Sideboarding in 4 mana terrors that don't actually kill everything sounds awesome.

This doesn't make any sense.

This is a very meta-specific, standard removal spell. You can't look at it with your first-turn win Exodia Legacy glasses.

Oh this is so cute.

[Pendulum]

You guys are aware that red and black are not the same colors, right?

And nowhere will that be made clearer than draft queues for the next several months.
Pretty sure, just like all the other recent spoilers, this is limited fodder. There I will probably pick it pretty high, though.

[Wraith223]

Red gets the shaft again. Elspeth hits play with 4 counters and role up 1 if they want token creatures. If you don't play it that turn or the next; it's useless. It should have read "deals 5 damage to target creature or remove all counters from target plainswalkers and target player takes damage equal to the number of counters removed." If black can get a cool plainswalker kill spell; red should something epic for an additional red mana cost. It still might not see play with my fix. Just lame. Although I would pick this immediately in limited. Limited fodder has no value though.

[Kaitscralt]

it's okay, that's about it

[imopen2]

Even in limited this is hard to cast, and red isn't the strongest color to begin with in theros. Still a very solid limited card, tho, if you can cast it

[Yarpus]

"Is this a good card?"
Hell no. We are talking about format with Magma Jet, Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall being available.

"Is this card gonna see some play?"
Yes. Rx decks were always in dire need of response to planeswalkers and Obzedat for example. Generally, 5-toughness stuff. So, even if the powerlevel is underwhelming here, it might be a 2-off in SB.

[zemanjaski]

^ except they're not. You don't win by sideboarding reactive, extremely narrow cards that have no impact in most board states. You need your removal to be mana efficient and 4 mana for a non-certain kill spell is too much, hence the comparison to terrors (I could compare to Flame Slash if that would make the whiners feel better).

[Yarpus]

If for example Mono Red or RW's cardpool would be abusable enough and for example, deck would actually struggle against Planeswalkers - I'd take a card. But yeah, I do like having responses to stuff which might make me not-that-good Aggro player.

[Yarpus]

It's not a spell I'd like to use - but MAYBE there will be a need for it.
It's not the hero we deserve, but hero we need.

[magicdownunder]

RW Devotion already runs Warleader's Helix in the SB, which is even less of a certain kill spell. Flame Slash is not a card that is legal in this Standard, so that comparison would be equally useless.

You can point WarLeader Helix at face, you can't with Flame Slash or this abomination.

[zemanjaski]

^ except they're not. You don't win by sideboarding reactive, extremely narrow cards that have no impact in most board states. You need your removal to be mana efficient and 4 mana for a non-certain kill spell is too much, hence the comparison to terrors (I could compare to Flame Slash if that would make the whiners feel better).

RW Devotion already runs Warleader's Helix in the SB, which is even less of a certain kill spell. Flame Slash is not a card that is legal in this Standard, so that comparison would be equally useless.

Warleader's Helix can kill my opponent
and you can definitely compare to cards not in the format when evaluating an effect; why do you think we can't? High level players certainly do, especially when formats have similar pillars to previous ones.

[zemanjaski]

I said compare, not dismiss because not strictly better. Nothing you've said is wrong, but you seem to think that all your examples are important. They're just not. Jace and Polukranos are; the rest aren't cards you'd side in direct answers too - trying to 1-for-1 cards like that in those matchups isn't how you win in those games. That's my problem with your analysis; you're seeming to analyse in a vacuum (I I need a card that can do this, this and this' vs. 'I need a card that works in my deck's strategy') instead of in the context of how the games play out; that's where I'm coming from.

This is a horrid card in red aggro. Maybe fine in a UR control deck but the pool isn't deep enough for that archetype yet.

[zemanjaski]

I like that your counter argument requires putting words in my mouth.

[magicdownunder]

RW Devotion already runs Warleader's Helix in the SB, which is even less of a certain kill spell. Flame Slash is not a card that is legal in this Standard, so that comparison would be equally useless.

You can point WarLeader Helix at face, you can't with Flame Slash or this abomination.

But you can't kill a Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, +1 Jace, +1 Elspeth, Polukranos, Advent of the Wurm Token, etc. etc.
etc. with Warleader's Helix. It's almost as if there are pros and cons to certain cards.

If you bring in Warleader helix for those cards then you're an idiot you're doing it wrong, Helix isn't just valued as a removal is the point I was trying to make - it can be used as a finishers and help you race.

[zemanjaski]

You're*

I'm unbiased in my asshattery.

[DerWille]

If this card read, "Deal 5 damage to target player or creature and if it's your turn, scry 2." Then, I'd like it a lot more, but right now, it's a really narrow card.

But you can't kill a Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, +1 Jace, +1 Elspeth, Polukranos, Advent of the Wurm Token, etc. etc. etc. with Warleader's Helix. It's almost as if there are pros and cons to certain cards.

Except all of the cards you've listed already have acceptable answers in any Rx deck for less mana without this Nefarious Burn card. Ya know, red decks often have these things called creatures and they're useful for smacking planeswalkers around with. Sometimes, you can combine them with a burn spell and kill them in a single turn!

Helix is better because it's a more versatile card. You get to target creatures, planeswalkers, and players with it and then gain 4 life. It can cause an 8
life point swing which can win the game by itself against aggro by putting you ahead in the damage race.

[Volition]

So is the outcome that while maybe this isn't playable in the current devotion or big boros shell, it is good enough that it could see play in another deck that relies more heavily on 1 - 1 removal and looks for a not creature answer to planeswalkers (say a UR control deck)?

I am pretty sure that it will see play in a few RW devotion sideboards, because bad players (like me) used to play reactive cards that tried to trade 1 - 1 against threats prior to learning from people better than me.

[Thrillho]

I don't think an additional two red mana for a bigger mizzium mortars without overload is worth it on its own. Being able to burn planeswalkers makes it a little better, as does "maybe scry 2," but 4 mana for "maybe destroy a Planeswalker or maybe destroy a creature, maybe scry 2" does not seem like the best. I feel like the extra damage does not afford the cost or lack of player damage.