Theros Pantheon Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Victory

[hamfactorial]

TEXT WALL INCOMING

I want to address the imopen vs. raspy exchange, so I went back to page 5 and looked at the sequence of events.

For reference, the official votecount at the time -

Official Votecount!

rezombad (Ephara) (1): RedNihilist
zemanjaski (Iroas) (1): rezombad
Wraith223 (Heliod) (5): TubeHunter, Iso, Void, DroppinSuga, Captain Murphy (L-2)
RedNihilist (Athreos) (1): imopen2
Iso (Thassa) (1): Wraith223

Not voting: hamfactorial, rcwraspy, WitchHunt, zemanjaski
n
With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

Then a few posts by Wraith and then raspy comes in with this -

I liked some of Wraith's responses to Iso when he actually attempted to pick apart the case, but now he's just flailing with flavor gaming stuff again - after we all explained why he shouldn't.

And upon a re-read, the responses I liked were primarily about why he wants people to pay attention to Ham and Suga's interactions, not necessarily about himself.

Vote: Wraith223

I think that means L-1.

Raspy begins by giving Wraith some credit for attempting to pick apart Iso's case on him, but then reverses course based on a perceived notion that Wraith's responses are trying to deflect attention from him and onto me and Suga.

Then, imopen comes in with this -

[
quote="imopen2 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:50 am"]Not sure what you mean, wraith (re: erebos), and I don't have time right now to figure it out.

If you want to convince people you are town you should start by answering the questions that iso posed to you.

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.[/quote]

This is the one that made raspy's ears perk up. At the time, there were 6 votes on Wraith (L-1). I'll come back to the statement about Wraith discussing Erebos.

This reads like imopen suspecting Wraith of being scum, but not doing a very good job at it. Wraith posts a lot and, if under duress, could slip something useful.

Then raspy comes back, addressing imopen directly -

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

As we've observed, Wraith gets emotional when he has pressure on him and starts doing a lot of things (switching votes, throwing out theories, threatening to stop playing Mafia if he's lynched).

If Wraith is scum, letting him sweat at L-1 for a while seems like a great town play. Who knows what kind of nuggets he'll trickle out?

I need to solve how the crime occured in relation to the chractors present.

This game that you're trying to play isn't mafia

This has been evident for some time now

Hammering you is
tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

What information do you hope to gain from lynching him before he's even responded to the questions people have posed to him? Your desperation is showing

I don't like the hand-waiving, but he seems to have the same thought process about Wraith.

[quote=&
quot;rcwraspy » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:34 pm"]

I need to solve how the crime occured in relation to the chractors present.

This game that you're trying to play isn't mafia

This has been evident for some time now

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information
would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

What information do you hope to gain from lynching him before he's even responded to the questions people have posed to him? Your desperation is showing

What desperation? You mean wanting to hammer but stopping because it looks scummy?

Oh wait, that was you.

I'm not trying to get you to hammer Wraith. I'm trying to get you to answer my question. The fact that you didn't but instead chose to go the OMGUS route tells me a lot.

unvote
vote imopen2

To answer your question - even if Wraith is town at least it gives us reads on how others interacted with him and helps process of elimination. But he's sticking to flavor gaming, which seems like it's scumWraith's only way of interacting and not lurking. Wraith hates lurkers, so scumWraith won't want to appear to lurk.[/quote]

Here raspy turns the focus back to imopen, answers the question
imopen gave him, and puts on some pressure with a vote. Raspy is right about Wraith hating lurkers, and at some point during this exchange Wraith had changed his vote to Captain Murphy to get him out of hiding. The bit about scumWraith seems random. I'm not sure which of the logical fallacies he employs there, since I never joined the debate team, but No True Scotsman comes to mind first.

Rcw: I feel I did answer your question. We can gain the information he provides us by way of his answers to questions he has yet answerd, for starters. Also his interactions with others should prove useful.

Do you think the fact that he is playing a different game is scum motivated? We're you suggesting a policy lynch? Please explain why his style means he should be
lynched.

Imopen responds by asserting that he did answer raspy's question (in typical hand-waive style), then counters to see what raspy thinks of policy lynching Wraith.

To be fair, I'm not sure what to think about policy lynches yet, since I haven't seen any in the 2 games I've played.

Rcw: I feel I did answer your question. We can gain the information he provides us by way of his answers to questions he has yet answerd, for starters. Also his interactions with others should prove useful.

Do you think the fact that he is playing a different game is scum motivated? We're you suggesting a policy lynch? Please explain why his style means he should be lynched.[/
quote]
Well, I've since taken my vote off him.

No, not advocating a policy lynch at all. His meta shows that he approaches it differently, and in general that's not a bad thing.

But in this situation, he's sticking to flavor gaming despite just about everybody explaining why that's completely useless. As I said, he hates lurkers so this is either him posting anything he can think of in order to not lurk (as scum) or he legitimately believes this is a good approach to the game (as town). That means he's scum at worst or useless town at best (don't intend to be offensive, but it needs to be said).

Imopen, what do you make of his insistence to flavor game?

Raspy's response here explains his frustration with Wraith much better than the previous batch. Particularly "he's sticking to flavor gaming despite just about everybody explaining why that's completely useless". I agree with him. In Ragnarok Mafia, flavor gaming lead to a quick scum win after Tube
killed one of his neighbors (Z) and everyone assumed that I was scum after Z flipped town. Any incidental flavor in that game (Iso's) was purely accidental, as he stated in the post-game wrap up posts.

I just don't think he understands the game since he insists on being ignorant to the mafiascum wiki and he seems like a generally weird dude. He has done some scummy things and I don't think he is going to be very helpful in finding scum but I'm not a fan of lynching bad town.

He needs to understand that, despite the names of the characters being public knowledge, there is absolutely no way that Stardust would make a game that could be broken based on flavor alone. That is a pointless road to go down and it is dangerous for the town.

Yes indeed.

unvote

The whole exchange reads like a frustrated townie (raspy) looking for information. He states that scum would be hesitant to drop the hammer on Wraith, and uses the first person who mentions hammering to probe for scum.

Raspy is in my town pile now.

#Flavor: Have you considered the fact that probably Mogis isn-t dead at all, and can be the real culprit?
Anyway, I fail to understand how that could help...

While reading through imopen vs. raspy, I saw this little gem from Red. In the middle of everyone laughing at Wraith for flavor gaming, why does he feel the need to egg him on with another flavor read?

I'm heading in to work, but will have some time at lunch (4 hours from now)
to catch back up.

[DroppinSuga]

I'm not sure if Red was intentionally egging Wraith on or not. I mean, the flavor of the game is actually fucking sweet, but we can't allow ourselves to get caught up in it.

[Wraith223]

Damn ham! Where was this last game? I find that you flesh out points really well. Iamopen2 was scumy last time and pulled a very sligh gamble last game. Think he is doing it again? Red knew I was poking at Iamopen2 for info and he refused to entertain the thought. Very similar to the call I made on him possibly lying about the bus driver claim.

After reading RCW, he looks townish.

Captain Murphys recent posts were about the same as Voids (single Celled responses to pressure). If they both this style; I would not expect much from them and their vote histories will become the main source of reads. Also, overreactive response that are not given will be worth noteing as they could be tells in response to certain individuals. Void is still bandwagoning and I think that is his M.O. for most thought process. If he stops or tries another tactic on another player; that might be a tell.

[rcwraspy]

why do I have 2 players buddying me all of a sudden?

Thanks for calling me town - you're right.

Now, why are you doing it? Ham pretty much laid it out in the long post. Would like Wraith's reason(s).

[rcwraspy]

"laid it out" = laid out his reasons

[Wraith223]

why do I have 2 players buddying me all of a sudden?

Thanks for calling me town - you're right.

Now, why are you doing it? Ham pretty much laid it out in the long post. Would like Wraith's reason(s).

-You stick to your reasons/story. You dissaprove my flavor research, but approve of my psych break downs of Ham and Suga. Consistency wins games. That could also hurt me as won with mafia with that tactic.
-Iamopen2 gives a towfaced answer to you wanting to know what info I might come up with if I am playing "not everyones style"/flavor calls. You get a overreaction that is putting the ball in your court, but Iamopen2 never actually answers your question.
-Iamopen2 does try to claim answering questions with shit I already said
about interactions from flavor calls. Just quick summery statements from me.
-You are thinking like me. If i am hating on Lurkers; I could be town or flailing again for more evidence. You find my out of the box thinking useful as it HAS brought more interaction from some have been silent. Last game proved that minimal Lurking paid off if town was hating on town. Also, If you were scum; I would be a great first day kill as the main gods 9the five from Theros) must have a cool ability each. That being said; backing off me shows your town thinking as a lesser god would be a better day one lynch as there should 1-2 lesser gods in the scum pile. I still could be wrong, but keeping that in mind is a bonus if more interactions or similar posts are made among lesser gods.
Would like a Psych call for you? Will give it anyway.
You are Purphoros. The sword acts as the ultimate weapon for you as your strength is in your forge. You have not built the ultimate weapon then as the sword defies your forge and skill.
Possesing that weapon is a great triumph in your mind. Issue, What if the sword breaks your forge while attempting to make your own (upgrade/mark it)? If someone was to use this great sword against you; you would not be able to defend yourself. That is the downside of your chractor to town. The positive role would be that you know its power and want it protected just as much as the god who put/wanted it there (me). Red tends to flamboient and a show off. Why kill your own dudes that reflect your chractoristics as the the great showman of the Forge and weapons of war.
Your play style has been testing (iamopen2) but reserved (acknowledging me but voting for a short time). You recalled your vote as it did not sit well with you kick the one of the few that is putting new information on the board and getting solid responses from the load mouth to the lurker. Based on that, I putting you as town because you want folks to talk and respond. Scum would want little talk and more voting cause fast action = bandwagon
or poor rational thought. There is one issue to acknowledge. Your disscussion did not really include anyone besides Iamopen2. Ham just gave an analysis. I am just giving an analysis/call as requested. Last game proved that you could play scum and and perfectly town in posts. So far, I like you as town as the evidence in this game reads town in the evidence of posts and voting has shown.

[Captain Murphy]

Captain Murphys recent posts were about the same as Voids (single Celled responses to pressure).

So i responded to the pressure? How am I a lurker then?

If they both this style; I would not expect much from them and their vote histories will become the main source of reads. Also, overreactive response that are not given will be worth noteing as they could be tells in response to certain individuals.

I don't have a "style". If I need to make a short post I will, if I need to make more detail, I will.

Why aren't we lynching Wraith?

[Captain Murphy]

why do I have 2 players buddying me all of a sudden?

Thanks for calling me town - you're right.

Now, why are you doing it? Ham pretty much laid it out in the long post. Would like Wraith's reason(s).

-You stick to your reasons/story. You dissaprove my flavor research, but approve of my psych break downs of Ham and Suga. Consistency wins games. That could also hurt me as won with mafia with that tactic.
-Iamopen2 gives a towfaced answer to you wanting to know what info I might come up with if I am playing "not everyones style"/flavor calls. You get a overreaction that is
putting the ball in your court, but Iamopen2 never actually answers your question.
-Iamopen2 does try to claim answering questions with shit I already said about interactions from flavor calls. Just quick summery statements from me.
-You are thinking like me. If i am hating on Lurkers; I could be town or flailing again for more evidence. You find my out of the box thinking useful as it HAS brought more interaction from some have been silent. Last game proved that minimal Lurking paid off if town was hating on town. Also, If you were scum; I would be a great first day kill as the main gods 9the five from Theros) must have a cool ability each. That being said; backing off me shows your town thinking as a lesser god would be a better day one lynch as there should 1-2 lesser gods in the scum pile. I still could be wrong, but keeping that in mind is a bonus if more interactions or similar posts are made among lesser gods.
Would like a Psych call for you? Will give it anyway.
You are Purphoros. The sword
acts as the ultimate weapon for you as your strength is in your forge. You have not built the ultimate weapon then as the sword defies your forge and skill. Possesing that weapon is a great triumph in your mind. Issue, What if the sword breaks your forge while attempting to make your own (upgrade/mark it)? If someone was to use this great sword against you; you would not be able to defend yourself. That is the downside of your chractor to town. The positive role would be that you know its power and want it protected just as much as the god who put/wanted it there (me). Red tends to flamboient and a show off. Why kill your own dudes that reflect your chractoristics as the the great showman of the Forge and weapons of war.
Your play style has been testing (iamopen2) but reserved (acknowledging me but voting for a short time). You recalled your vote as it did not sit well with you kick the one of the few that is putting new information on the board and getting solid responses from the load mouth to the lurker.
Based on that, I putting you as town because you want folks to talk and respond. Scum would want little talk and more voting cause fast action = bandwagon or poor rational thought. There is one issue to acknowledge. Your disscussion did not really include anyone besides Iamopen2. Ham just gave an analysis. I am just giving an analysis/call as requested. Last game proved that you could play scum and and perfectly town in posts. So far, I like you as town as the evidence in this game reads town in the evidence of posts and voting has shown.

That was 80% too much flavor gaming and 20% less grammar needed in one big "save me" post

[Captain Murphy]

like if your policy is lynch people who picked a flavor that happens to be a "strong" god then I don't even know what else to say

[Captain Murphy]

ham and rcw, I see you lookin

[Captain Murphy]

fuck I should be that annoying mafia guy who always calls out players who lurk and leave, then track them down elsewhere and get them to post ala artifice

[hamfactorial]

Yup, here at lunch like I said I would be.

Everyone is having a good time in forum 13

[Captain Murphy]

Are you having ham for lunch?

[hamfactorial]

Ham in your mouth is simply a dream come true

[rcwraspy]

-You stick to your reasons/story.

You dissaprove my flavor research, but approve of my psych break downs of Ham and Suga. Consistency wins games. That could also hurt me as won with mafia with that tactic.

-Iamopen2 gives a towfaced answer to you wanting to know what info I might come up with if I am playing "not everyones style"/flavor calls. You get a overreaction that is putting the ball in your court, but Iamopen2 never actually answers your question. [/
quote]

-Iamopen2 does try to claim answering questions with shit I already said about interactions from flavor calls. Just quick summery statements from me.

Not the way I read it but fine. Neutral few sentences here.

-You are thinking like me. If i am hating on Lurkers; I could be town or flailing again for more evidence. You find my out of the box thinking useful as it HAS brought more interaction from some have been silent. Last game proved that minimal Lurking paid off if town was hating on town. Also, If you were scum; I would be a great first day kill

Not sure if I want to be seen as "thinking like" you, but I get this part of what you said. Seems ok. I find your "out of the box" thinking and posting to be frustrating, but I will give you that it entices discussion.

as
the main gods 9the five from Theros) must have a cool ability each. That being said; backing off me shows your town thinking as a lesser god would be a better day one lynch as there should 1-2 lesser gods in the scum pile. I still could be wrong, but keeping that in mind is a bonus if more interactions or similar posts are made among lesser gods.
Would like a Psych call for you? Will give it anyway.
You are Purphoros. The sword acts as the ultimate weapon for you as your strength is in your forge. You have not built the ultimate weapon then as the sword defies your forge and skill. Possesing that weapon is a great triumph in your mind. Issue, What if the sword breaks your forge while attempting to make your own (upgrade/mark it)? If someone was to use this great sword against you; you would not be able to defend yourself. That is the downside of your chractor to town. The positive role would be that you know its power and want it protected just as much as the god who put/wanted it there (me). Red tends
to flamboient and a show off. Why kill your own dudes that reflect your chractoristics as the the great showman of the Forge and weapons of war.

Ugh more flavor game crap. Seriously, this will NOT help. You were going well (although grammar, punctuation, and paragraph breaks go a long way) for a bit - keep up the other stuff, the real Mafia stuff.

Your play style has been testing (iamopen2) but reserved (acknowledging me but voting for a short time). You recalled your vote as it did not sit well with you kick the one of the few that is putting new information on the board and getting solid responses from the load mouth to the lurker. Based on that, I putting you as town because you want folks to talk and respond. Scum would want little talk and more voting cause fast action = bandwagon or poor rational thought.

This is pretty good, I can see this coming from town, and it's demonstrating that you know a bit about how this game is played. Although, if
you know how the game is played, that puts the flavor gaming stuff into even higher focus.

There is one issue to acknowledge. Your disscussion did not really include anyone besides Iamopen2. Ham just gave an analysis. I am just giving an analysis/call as requested. Last game proved that you could play scum and and perfectly town in posts. So far, I like you as town as the evidence in this game reads town in the evidence of posts and voting has shown.

imopen2 and I had a discussion going back and forth, and I wanted to learn more about him - of course I just focused on him then. Others haven't brought much to the table, but I'm going to read through Ham's post soon.

Despite more flavor game stuff, I think Wraith looked town in most of the sections I broke out as unique quotes here. What do other people think?

[rcwraspy]

ham and rcw, I see you lookin

Yeah I'm at work so I'll often be on a forums page and then leave the desk or minimize it to do work related stuff, but never leave that page. Not sure if that shows me active or inactive, but it is what it is.

[Captain Murphy]

#flavor
#lurkers
#buddy
#gramer

I think it's #lynchtime

[imopen2]

Wraith, you have got to be kidding me with more flavor-gaming. If you mention flavor-gaming one more time toDay, I will vote you as a policy lynch. You aren't helping us with this shit. Understand?

[Captain Murphy]

Am I seriously the only one that lols at a drawn out claim to be told they are a role blocker?

[imopen2]

Am I seriously the only one that lols at a drawn out claim to be told they are a role blocker?

Idk, my role is pretty fucking weird...

[rcwraspy]

Am I seriously the only one that lols at a drawn out claim to be told they are a role blocker?

Yes?

I think this is the first time Wraith has had to claim in a game of Mafia, and he's stated multiple times that he didn't look things up in the Wiki until recently. He's a unique case since he marches to the beat of his own drum in this game. That doesn't automatically make him scum.

You seem like you don't care about unique circumstances and just want to get in a quick lynch. Why?

[RedNihilist]

@ham: I've got to remind you I'm not a native speaker - I had to google what "egging" actually was.

Seriosly, though, my answer there (the one about Mogis) wasn't actually meant to encourage him to keep flavorgaming, I wanted it to sound like "Dude, I don't know what you're doing, but you're not even doing it *that* well".

Now, let's put some thought in this, please: Wraith could either be a town n00b, or scum desperately trying to pass as town n00b.
In both cases, I think he's not going to be night killed, as scum doesn't NK its members and I'm sure has no interest in killing somebody who's just acting as a big distraction for all the townies.

Are we going to policy kill him?
I don't know, I don't feel like doing so right now but I can understand townies being disappointed at him, yet I'd like to see more scumhunting towards different directions before dropping the hammer, as I'd
really hate to enter Day 2 with two dead townies and nothing good about other players.
I've got to say that I'm really relieved to see ham's text wall, while still hoping that Wraith will someday start to play mafia with us rather than his funtastic game he seems to be playing all alone.

[rcwraspy]

Wraith, you have got to be kidding me with more flavor-gaming. If you mention flavor-gaming one more time toDay, I will vote you as a policy lynch. You aren't helping us with this shit. Understand?

what do you think of the many non-flavor related things he said in that post? Or are you just going to tunnel the flavor stuff?

anybody else see a possible Captain-Imopen-X scum team developing?

[TubeHunter]

Raspy: Being unique doesn't make him town either.

and anyways, i was reading through his post again and this really caught my eye. Probably the most damning thing about the claim

What the hell my laptop keeps skipping typing and stupid auto correcting words.

I just said earlier that my ability is Rolestopper. My spear stops night kills. What else do you want?

And wouldn't your ability be &
quot;Roleblocker"? And that's not what the role does.

"If only I were a day cop this game..."
That's is you. I interpret that as wanting to day kill.

My ability nukes a players ability besides voting. Roleblocker seems appropriate to me. I finally get an ability, and it looks like I won't get to use it. Figures.

not reading the wiki doesn't let you mix up what your role does.

[hamfactorial]

Red:

I sometimes forget that you're European, since you speak write more skillfully than many Americans.

I'm going to do a read-through of the infrequent posters (Void, Witchhunt) and see if anything sticks out. Did you notice anything remarkable from their posts?

[rcwraspy]

Raspy: Being unique doesn't make him town either.

Very true.

[rcwraspy]

and anyways, i was reading through his post again and this really caught my eye. Probably the most damning thing about the claim

What the hell my laptop keeps skipping typing and stupid auto correcting words.

I just said earlier that my ability is Rolestopper. My spear stops night kills. What else do you want?

And wouldn't your ability be "Roleblocker"? And that's not what the role does.

"If only I were a day cop this game..."
That's is you. I interpret that as wanting to day kill.

My ability nukes a players ability besides voting. Roleblocker seems appropriate to me. I finally get an ability, and it looks like I won't get to use it. Figures.

not reading the wiki doesn't let you mix up what your role does.

Go read the MafiaScum definition of Roleblocker, especially the part about town alignment, and then tell me whether you still think this is a discrepancy or just Wraith's failure to articulate/understand it.

Damnit, I almost feel like I'm defending Wraith right now. I'm not trying to, but I also don't see this as a safe lynch
right now. So the questions are, is any day 1 lynch "safe"? Do we want to policy lynch this flavor gaming crap?

[WitchHunt]

Raspy: Being unique doesn't make him town either.

and anyways, i was reading through his post again and this really caught my eye. Probably the most damning thing about the claim

What the hell my laptop keeps skipping typing and stupid auto correcting words.

I just said earlier that my ability is Rolestopper. My spear stops night kills. What else do you want?

And wouldn't your ability be "Roleblocker"? And that's not what the role does.

"If only I were a day cop this game..."
That's is you. I interpret that as wanting to day kill.

My ability nukes a players ability besides voting. Roleblocker seems appropriate to me. I finally get an ability, and it looks like I won't get to use it. Figures.

not reading the wiki doesn't let you mix up what your role does.

This was something that caught my eye as well. He goes from essentially describing a doc, to redefining it to roleblocker in a later post. Naturally I'll wager a guess and say there IS a doc in the game, but I feel confident in saying it's not him now. When I first saw this, I
assumed he was trying to describe a doc, then I thought maybe he was trying to get the doc to counter claim him. I probably read too much into it, but I agree with Tube, not knowing the mafia wiki doesn't lead this kind of mistake.

[rcwraspy]

Official Votecount!

rezombad (Ephara) (1): RedNihilist
zemanjaski (Iroas) (1): rezombad
Wraith223 (Heliod) (5): TubeHunter, Iso, Void, DroppinSuga, Captain Murphy (L-2)
RedNihilist (Athreos) (1): imopen2
Iso (Thassa) (1): Wraith223

Not voting: hamfactorial, rcwraspy, WitchHunt, zemanjaski

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

Not sure if this will be very helpful, but a quick vote analysis.

This was right before I voted for Wraith to put him at
L-1. My vote was on Wraith for a decent while. I voted him at 10:54 am and unvoted him at 2:27pm. DroppinSuga unvoted him 1 minute earlier than I did, at 2:26pm.

That means Wraith was at L-1 for three and a half hours. That's not a hugely long time, but I think it's long enough for scum to hammer if they want. Which brings up 2 possibilities.

1. Wraith is scum and they didn't want to hammer their own
2. Scum was already on Wraith's wagon

6 people had votes on him while he was L-1. Me, Suga, Iso, Void, Captain, Tube.

Me and Suga dropped our votes after a bit.

Regarding #2, the possibility that scum was already on his wagon, In early days in a game scum are going to want to be in the middle of a vote block so as to avoid being the L-1 or hammer votes and get increased scrutiny after a town flip. In the middle of this wagon: Iso, Void, Captain Murphy (leaving out Suga since he unvoted)

That said, imopen came in and basically said he wanted to hammer but didn't. That could be in
support of #1, that Wraith is scum, and this is imopen openly busing him but not willing to actually get him killed.

[hamfactorial]

Witch:

I didn't catch that on my first read-through of the thread, only that he called himself a roleblocker, then a rolestopper. I forgave that because I know he posts from his iPad, but it distracted me from the completely different descriptions of his abilities.

Raspy:

There's no safe lynch day 1 because it's all conjecture, but I can't ignore the role screwup.

Vote Wraith

pedit: nice analysis of the wagon, will re-read after post.

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

rezombad (Ephara) (1): RedNihilist
zemanjaski (Iroas) (1): rezombad
Wraith223 (Heliod) (5): TubeHunter, Iso, Void, Captain Murphy, hamfactorial (L-2)
RedNihilist (Athreos) (1): imopen2
Captain Murphy (Karametra) (1): Wraith223

Not voting: WitchHunt, zemanjaski, DroppinSuga, rcwraspy

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.


I will be less active over weekends. Though I will still follow the thread, the next official votecount will come Monday morning.

[rcwraspy]

Raspy: Being unique doesn't make him town either.

and anyways, i was reading through his post again and this really caught my eye. Probably the most damning thing about the claim

What the hell my laptop keeps skipping typing and stupid auto correcting words.

I just said earlier that my ability is Rolestopper. My spear stops night kills. What else do you want?

And wouldn't your ability be "Roleblocker"? And that's not what the role does.

"If only I were a day cop this game..."
That's is you. I interpret that as wanting to day kill.

My ability nukes a players ability besides voting. Roleblocker seems appropriate to me. I finally get an ability, and it looks like I won't get to use it. Figures.

not reading the wiki doesn't let you mix up what your role does.

This was something that caught my eye as well. He goes from essentially describing a doc, to redefining it to
roleblocker in a later post. Naturally I'll wager a guess and say there IS a doc in the game, but I feel confident in saying it's not him now. When I first saw this, I assumed he was trying to describe a doc, then I thought maybe he was trying to get the doc to counter claim him. I probably read too much into it, but I agree with Tube, not knowing the mafia wiki doesn't lead this kind of mistake.

Sigh. Ok, I'm going to quote the Mafia wiki since I don't trust anybody to actually go read it themselves because everybody except me is potentially scum.

This is Mafia Wiki's town-based Roleblocker description:

Town
Generally, Roleblockers are intended to try to stop the Night-kill, or stop scum power roles in situations where they are known.

This matches up exactly with what Wraith said first, that his ability stops night kills.

In practice, Roleblockers are more likely to stop Town power roles from working early on, but as the game
goes on Roleblockers become much more powerful. In particular, when there is one Mafioso left Roleblockers can be used to confirm players - if the Mafia's kill goes through, whoever was blocked that Night isn't the last Mafioso. Inversely, if a Roleblocker blocks someone and the Mafia's kill disappears, there is a decent chance that the Roleblocker blocked the scum who was performing the kill (though this is not necessarily the case, given that other power roles may have had a hand in it, or the scum decided to not kill anyone as a framing gambit). In summary, Town Roleblockers are almost liabilities early on but become much stronger if they survive to lategame, so they have net positive value for Town.

This doesn't sound too far off from "my ability nukes a players ability besides voting" that Wraith said. Especially the last part about Roleblocker being an early game liability, and let's not forget that Wraith's understanding of his ability depends on how Stardust worded it.


Please explain to me how you think it sounds like he's describing a doc's abilities?

[rcwraspy]

I'm tempted to vote Wraith right now because I don't believe town would stick around at L-1 for 3 and a half hours without being hammered.

That said, in my mind I've linked imopen on 2 potential scum teams - with Wraith and/or with Captain Murphy.

vote: imopen2

[zemanjaski]

Wonderful posts today. Ill digest and get back to everyone ASAP.

[Wraith223]

So I can surmise that policy voting is any one person that deviates from the group with a significant clique that targets one guy.

Iamopen2, I will play as I see fit. Go to hell...oh wait...you are Erebos

If I gave up and said sorry guys; I won't play like this anymore. You would become suspicious, and I look more scum according to the clique.

So I can guess that everyone thinks I am scum no matter what I say? Thus go ahead vote me, I got better things to do. Will wait for the next game.

unvote, vote Wraith223 maybe the path Inflateablepie will fuck all you over as some you deserve loosing this game for being such morons and jerks to players that think outside the box.

If I turn out right about some of the flavor part; I will ram this down your throat.

Captain Murphy, you still have yet to post
any analysis worth a damn to town.

[Wraith223]

Any of you find the iPad making spelling fixes that you don't want or cutting words off cause you did not the space bar hard enough? It also does not want to type if have the bar open and move the cursor to another spot to fix a missed word. What a pain as I can't use a mouse.

[WitchHunt]

Chill out dude, you're not dead yet. We're still discussing.

Please explain to me how you think it sounds like he's describing a doc's abilities?

Also quoting from the Mafia scum wiki

A Doctor is a role that targets a player at Night to protect that player from a single kill made during that Night.

Comparing that to

My spear stops night kills.

My first thought came to a Doctor role assuming his experience with the Mafia wiki was limited.The last time I played with the Doctor's ability
was worded like so "Once per night, you may PM me the name of a player. That player will be safe from kills that night", whereas the last time I played with a Role Blocker it was worded as "You can counter one player's actions per night. That player will not be unable to perform their activated abilities if they have any".

So when Wraith followed up with this

My ability nukes a players ability besides voting. .

My first impulse led me to believe he was informed his ability was used to save another player's life. Ergo, Doctor in my head. Then he stated it "nukes" another player's ability beside voting, so it led me to Role Blocker instead.

If his PM was anything like mine, which I had to ask for clarification on it, I didn't know if Stardust was using exact
quotes of the Mafia wiki. That being said, I never read the Town Role Blocker's description before. I feel that if his PM had the elements of both, "You can save someone from a night kill" as well as "You can prevent a player's ability", then writing him off as scum so soon might be a mistake.

[Wraith223]

I pretty much am. Voting seems to be more based on the clique mentality of who is in the core group of players, "in" the approved policy according to the clique, and others are just retard bandwagoning voting for a day 1 lynch.

[zemanjaski]

Can someone else unvote Wraith please? He isn't worth lynching. I detest the idea of killing Town for policy reasons. We'll benefit from having time to look back through what has happened so far, and if we still have nothing in a few days then we can reconsider all options. But I have come to believe that Wraith is Town and that we shouldn't lynch him.

[Iso]

I'll catch up tomorrow or Monday or something.