Primer: R/w/x Aggro

[dauntless268]

I think the Boros Aggro and the Warleader Boros lists can move towards each other. eg you could take my list, cut a muta, dragon, 1-2 helixes and the YPs and play w/ 6 1-drops and 4 Zealots, if that suits you more....

EDIT: In this case reduce the Temple of Silence count to max 2 like MDU has done

[magicdownunder]

How do you all rate Warleader Helix? Its 4cc duel colour spell which can't kill SBD and BBV, it does deal 4 damage on a target so it can be pointed at creatures (which is important) and it gains you 4 life, however in theory casting Shock on Ash Zealot (T2) will gain you virtually more then 4 life.

I value flexibility (targeting a creature in a pitch) which is why I prefer this card to MD Boros Charm, but I'll rarely (never really) ever want to see them in multiples in my opening draws - though they're great top-decks, I'm really kine on hearing opinions of the guys who are actively testing the Warleader Boros variant, do you guys really believe 4x really the correct number here?

p.s. I'll not really sure when I'll have time to play magic again though I'll def. run the CQ on the 8th (ha! so I won't really get to test at all, time to wing me a CQ win ) so I'll be asking more questions rather then proving answers for the next few days

[agrevall]

How do you all rate Warleader Helix? Its 4cc duel colour spell which can't kill SBD and BBV, it does deal 4 damage on a target so it can be pointed at creatures (which is important) and it gains you 4 life, however in theory casting Shock on Ash Zealot (T2) will gain you virtually more then 4 life.

I value flexibility (targeting a creature in a pitch) which is why I prefer this card to MD Boros Charm, but I'll rarely (never really) ever want to see them in multiples in my opening draws - though they're great top-decks, I'm really kine on hearing opinions of the guys who are actively testing the Warleader Boros variant, do you guys really believe 4x really the correct number here?

I think it's a tough
call, personally I don't think Charm is MD right now as it's value is purely against control. On the flip side what would I rather have Helix main deck instead of? Basically shock right? I think the life gain isn't really a big deal for this deck compared to the burn variant so then you're just looking at an extra couple of damage. Throw in the fact it can't target the only 2 creatures in standard with 4 toughness that cause big problems to us, I just don't think it's worth it. Obviously it's better when you're in top deck mode and looking to burn an opponent out but how often does that happen vs the utility of a lower CMC spell?

I'm just thinking out loud here!

[Lightning_Dolt]

I agree with most of what you said there.

However, I am going to test the Warleader Boros List so I can say I'm not just theory crafting

Here's my list for FNM tonight:

Warleader Boros (JS Tweak)
[deck]
Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (16)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (19)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard (15)
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Skullcrack
2 Last Breath
3 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Wear // Tear *[/deck]

* This might become the 4th Satyr before the even starts... Will think about it in the car...

Also, this is a noob question, but how
do you get the deck name to replace "deck" when formatting?

[Lightning_Dolt]

FNM was cancelled because of New Years. Balls. Still got the promo though...

[LaZerBurn]

Like this but without the gaps [ deck = name ] [/deck]

[LaZerBurn]

You can have gaps between the words in the name though, like this - [deck=Johnny's Boros Deck][/deck]


Ignore the word 'undefined' - I assume it is because I put no cards in the deck

[Lightning_Dolt]

Thanks.

[dauntless268]

How do you all rate Warleader Helix? Its 4cc duel colour spell which can't kill SBD and BBV, it does deal 4 damage on a target so it can be pointed at creatures (which is important) and it gains you 4 life, however in theory casting Shock on Ash Zealot (T2) will gain you virtually more then 4 life.

I value flexibility (targeting a creature in a pitch) which is why I prefer this card to MD Boros Charm, but I'll rarely (never really) ever want to see them in multiples in my opening draws - though they're great top-decks, I'm really kine on hearing opinions of the guys
who are actively testing the Warleader Boros variant, do you guys really believe 4x really the correct number here?

I think it's a tough call, personally I don't think Charm is MD right now as it's value is purely against control. On the flip side what would I rather have Helix main deck instead of? Basically shock right? I think the life gain isn't really a big deal for this deck compared to the burn variant so then you're just looking at an extra couple of damage. Throw in the fact it can't target the only 2 creatures in standard with 4 toughness that cause big problems to us, I just don't think it's worth it. Obviously it's better when you're in top deck mode and looking to burn an opponent out but how often does that happen vs the utility of a lower CMC spell?

I'm just thinking out loud here!

Good points, guys. I've found the lifegain relevant, since when you don't run shock, you can be pretty low on life against full-blown aggro decks. Helix helps
immensely to stabilize here. It kills Gary and Frostburn which is nice but not the be all end all, other than that its really the flexibility that I like about the card.

I want to try another list just to test out differences.

[deck] Warleader Boros Alternate Art[/deck]

I'm really curious to hear other people's experiences. Johnny Spike, shame you couldn't take your version to FNM.

EDIT: 3-1 in DE tonight. Lost against Burn, then won against MonoU, RW Devotion, BG
Devotion,. Many play mistakes. From a deck perspective, I like that the chance of having more than 1 Dragon or Helix in starting hand is smaller. Needless to say I drew all 3 Dragons in my first round G1 ...

[magicdownunder]

@dauntless268 : That new list you posted looks really good, is that the one you went 3-1 with? I'll imagine that burn would be a poor MU with the lack of haste creatures D:

Between your older list and this one which one do you prefer?

[dauntless268]

Yes, it was. It was a particularly nasty burn with 4 Maindeck Boros Reckoners...

I almost like the 24 land list better, but it's a Metagame call. Should have a bit of a better matchup against Esper Midrange, +/- equal against MonoB, MonoU & Control, better MD against Aggro. Probably worse against Gx and Rx Devotion as hitting the lands for Reckoner after SB is more difficult and Stormbreath is really the card you win with against them.

More importantly, I feel like you are right that YP$ without shock is lackluster, but playing Ash you have either a choice of playing Guildgates (which I ) or have a higher risk not hitting it on curve (35% on the play with your list if I looked it up correctly). So...PyroHelix anyone?

[Lightning_Dolt]

After some testing, I really, really hate this deck without 8x 1cc creatures. It makes the deck painfully slow, and you often give up G1 vs Mono Black and UW/x Control

. I think it's important to win G1, since G2 + 3 are a lot more difficult.

I am determined to keep this an Aggro/Midrange deck, not a Midrange/Control deck. I'll keep testing / tweaking, and post a decklist once I'm done for the day.

[magicdownunder]

Why not try our old Elspeth list? It runs 4x Chains MD (which is something I really like right now, with RW and Esper Aggro on the rise):

Last Time

---

[deck=MDU's Boros Sun Legions]Lands 25
11 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 19
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 5
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Legion's Initiative

Planeswalker 1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Sideboard 15
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Rod of Ruin
3 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6430815)
[url=http&
#58;//youtu.be/5lgfV5oIxhI]Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Esper (Event 6430815)[/url]
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6430815

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 3 more after this one):

Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6432208)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs RW Devotion (Event 6432208)
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs
Ux Devotion (Event 6432208)

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 2 more after this one) I'll be taking a small break from magic since I have 15 QPs, 3 boosters and $500 extra tixs saved for when DE start up again:

Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6442190)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6442190)
Standard Elimination G3: Split

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 1 more after this one):
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs W Control (Event 6436213)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (
Event 6436213)
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6436213)

Here is the next set running the same list (yay we're finish, I notice I mixed some of the replays up between Elim matches but its still fine):
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6435938)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6435938)
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Br Aggro (Event 6435938)

Except change the MD into:

[deck=MDU's Boros Sun Legions]Lands 25
11 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2
Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 4
4 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker 1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/deck]

[dauntless268]

Looks super solid. How important is Elspeth? B/c otherwise, we could play 2 Temple of Gruul instead of the guildgates?

EDIT: Otherwise, wouldn't a singleton Aurelia be very much in line with what the deck tries to do?

[LaZerBurn]

@ Johnny - I always think of this list as your perfect build

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ Dauntless: The extra white sources are far more important than scry 1, with or without Elspeth.

@ Laser I tend to agree, but I want to squeeze a little more out of it.

Here's what I came up with after testing with LP all day:

[deck]Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (15)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wear // Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Skullcrack
2 Last Breath
3 Shock[/deck]

You give up a little vs Dragon and Baron, but seems better vs the rest of the field.

Maybe that's bad actually... Maybe I'm just insane.

[magicdownunder]

Rx Devotion isn't poplar in Japan? Its hard to justify a list without Mortars these days...

EDIT: Esper Aggro/Midrange is now the third most successful deck on MTGO overtaking Rw Devotion - Chains, Last Breaths and Wear // Tear are looking better and better.

[LaZerBurn]

I'm currently playing Pyro but I'm keeping up to speed here too This is my current Warleader Boros 75. The MD is only a card off MDU's (+ 1 Mutavault - 1 Ash Zealot) and the SB is slanted towards Aggro. If the meta shifts to Control I'd drop Shock for FDS and maybe the 4th Reckoner for the 4th Ashley.

[deck=LaZer's Warleader Boros]Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (16)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (20)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Assemble The Legion
2 Skullcrack
2 Last Breath
3 Shock[/deck]

@ Johnny - I'm in agreement with MDU here - I think you lose
more than you gain switching Mortars for Helix.

EDIT @ MDU - sounds good to me - fixed it

[magicdownunder]

I reckon if your going to run 25 lands you might as well run Boros Guildgate over Temple Of Silence, I only ran the Temple Of Silence because I was trying to push my luck with greed (24 lands with a six 4-drops and four 5-drops)

[Lightning_Dolt]

You guys are probably right, I just hate being like "well, deck is finished, that's as good as it's going to get".

I want 8x 1 drops AND Helix lol

I really want to play my FNM WLH's...

Maybe 6x 1 drop, 2x Helix... The ability to go to the dome with helix has won me a bunch of games...

[Lightning_Dolt]

How about this:

[deck]
Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (18)
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (17)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Wear // Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Last Breath
3 Shock[/deck]

[LP, of the Fires]

The 8 drops won like, all of your games. I'd go down to six only if there's a significant mono-blue presence in your area.

[LaZerBurn]

Leave it alone Johnny - if it ain't broke don't fix it That said if you really HAVE to get a Helix in drop a Dragon for one

Given what MDU posted about Esper Mid I'd suggest 3 Reckoner and 2 Wear/Tear in the SB.

[magicdownunder]

The 8 drops won like, all of your games. I'd go down to six only if there's a significant mono-blue presence in your area.

Everything is meta dependent, if your meta is filled with control you obv. shouldn't cut your FDS count.

Online we see more aggro variants (Ux, Rx, Gx and now Esper Aggro) then control so I wouldn't hesitate to run 6x one-drops.

Leave it alone Johnny - if it ain't broke don't fix it That said if you really HAVE to get a Helix in drop a Dragon for one

Given what MDU posted about Esper Mid I'd suggest 3 Reckoner and 2 Wear/Tear in the SB.

We should always shrive for improvement, I welcome the testing of Warleader Helix - I will be testing 10 MD Haste-Fliers in Boros Aggro when I get the chance to play online again.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tips on predicting a meta?

[LaZerBurn]

Leave it alone Johnny - if it ain't broke don't fix it That said if you really HAVE to get a Helix in drop a Dragon for one

Given what MDU posted about Esper Mid I'd suggest 3 Reckoner and 2 Wear/Tear in the SB.

We should always shrive for improvement, I welcome the testing of Warleader Helix - I will be testing 10 MD Haste-Fliers in Boros Aggro when I get the chance to play online again.

That
was tongue in cheek MDU - you'll note I've ran every variant and tweaked them as well!

4 Phoenix, 4 Stormbreath, 2 Skyknight ? Sounds interesting

[DerWille]

Why not try our old Elspeth list? It runs 4x Chains MD (which is something I really like right now, with RW and Esper Aggro on the rise):

Last Time

---

[deck=MDU's Boros Sun Legions with a ]Lands 25
11 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 19
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 5
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Legion's Initiative

Planeswalker 1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Sideboard 15
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Rod of Ruin
3 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
1 Assemble the Legion
2
Mizzium Mortars[/deck]
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6430815)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Esper (Event 6430815)
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6430815

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 3 more after this one):

Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6432208)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs RW Devotion (Event 6432208)
[
url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a83mPHg ... H71wqDYODu]Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6432208)[/url]

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 2 more after this one) I'll be taking a small break from magic since I have 15 QPs, 3 boosters and $500 extra tixs saved for when DE start up again:

Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6442190)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6442190)
Standard Elimination G3: Split

Here is the next set running the same list (I have 1 more after this one):
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs W
Control (Event 6436213)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Bx Devotion (Event 6436213)
Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6436213)

Here is the next set running the same list (yay we're finish, I notice I mixed some of the replays up between Elim matches but its still fine):
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6435938)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Sun Legion vs Ux Devotion (Event 6435938)
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Bv6bCT4zQ]Standard Elimination G3: Boros Sun Legion vs Br Aggro (Event 6435938)[
/url]

Except change the MD into:

[deck=MDU's Boros Sun Legions]Lands 25
11 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 4
4 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker 1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/deck]

I like this. I don't have all the cards (missing a dragon), but how do you feel about working 2 Chandra into the list? Something like

[deck=MDU's Angels]Lands 25
11 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 19
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 3
3 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker 3
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's
Champion[/deck][/quote]

The idea is that Chandra helps refill on gas and in some match ups, her +1 lets the little dudes run past the big bad Desecration Demon.

If Chandra is a no-go, I might run a x1 Assemble the Legion in the 4th dragon slot (I just have 3).

[montu]

I played the same deck as last week.

Montu's Default Build

---

[deck=Montu's Boros Build]Lands 24
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
10 Mountains

Creatures 21
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

Enchantments 03
3 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalkers 02
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard 15
1 Boros Reckoner
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Shock
2 Last Breath
2 Boros Charm
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack[/deck]

I went 3-2. I lost both matches to MonoU Devotion. The first match loss was variance . . . I lost game 1 fair and square. Game 2 I had to mull to 5 and keep a 1 land hand. Nothing I could do there.

I won Match 3. Then I crushed a kid in
Match 4 who sat there after the match bawling. I kinda felt bad, since the poor kid had his hopes up to win a booster pack for the evening.

On M5 (MonoU again), G1, I FUBARed the win I could have had, which I'll share below, and got myself messed up in the head. I definitely get off-tilt too easily. I was fuming so bad, on G2, I kept a stupid 5 land hand. And during the game after he Dissolved my Mizzium Mortar on his +3-counter-Cloudfin Raptor, I went brain dead and hit it again with a Lightning Strike. My opp looked at me like I was an idiot. Now I wanted to sit there and cry.

Anyway, here's my STUPID play.

I had a Stormbreath Dragon on the board. Opp previously Cloned
it and had previously played Master of Waves for 6, so the board was plugged up. He had 3 cards in hand and 4 life. I had 7 untapped mana. He had lethal next turn. I got it in my head that I could not win. I attacked with some chumps hoping to sneak in a point of damage. No dice. Next turn, he drew a card, played two spells during the Main Phase, and then I was like WTF DID I JUST DO? If I would have been thinking clearly I should have activated monstosity during his draw step. It turns out, he didn't not have an instant, so I would have won. Sigh.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm to the point where 3-2 feels like an epic loss.

Question - I picked up a 4th Stormbreath Dragon. I like a lower curve, so I'll probably not put in MD. But I'm thinking of putting it in the SB in place of the Boros Reckoner. Thoughts?


Finally . . . any you guys live near Boston? I'll be in Chelmsord this week. Would love to play some magic.

[montu]

My 12-daughter is a pretty good player for her age. Last night she went 2-2-1, and has gone 3-2 before. One of the reasons, I think, is because I won't let her use cards she wants unless she remembers all her triggers, etc. (e.g., "You want another Ajani in your deck? Stop forgetting to activate it!")

Based on my last post, and the fact that it was the second time I misplayed monstrosity, maybe I need penalize myself a week without Stormbreath Dragon.

[magicdownunder]

@DerWille: I actually lost vs the Elspeth + Chandra Combo before so I don't see anything wrong with your list and keep in mind the Elspeth concept was originally your idea in the first place so I reckon you would be the best person to tweak it further.

@Montu: How are you boarding vs Ux? Your list already looks quite strong (though the 4th Dragon would help the Ux MU).

@Johnny_Spike: Online you just need to read the latest result, articles, scanned the top200 or just learn Pro handles (etc: LSV is LSV or Strong_Sad is ETC). Combine that with sights like MTGOGOLDFISH you can see what is taking the most recent finishes then proceed to make accurate meta predictions.

Its much harder to predict the paper meta then it is for the online meta, following the first step " read the latest result, articles, scanned the top200 or just
learn Pro handles (etc: LSV is LSV or Strong_Sad is ETC)" helps but you'll need to fill in the gaps based on your local experience - I'll recommend that you try to improve your connection with local circles and ask what they'll be taking.

@LaZerBurn: I really liked my PyroSkies list esp. with LI, I don't think LI fits with Boros Aggro but 4 Phoenix, 4 Stormbreath, 2 Skyknight is still very strong against pretty much everything G1.

[montu]

@Montu: How are you boarding vs Ux? Your list already looks quite strong (though the 4th Dragon would help the Ux MU).

My SB for Ux:

-4 Rakdos Cackler
-4 Firedrinker Satyr

+1 Chained to the Rocks
+2 Last Breath
+2 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Shock
+1 Skullcrack [Maybe this should be Boros Charm instead?]

Seems reasonable, no?

I generally beat Ux when a) I don't make stupid plays, and b) I draw enough burn to keep his devotion in check. So, obviously, keeping a 5-land opening hand wasn't very smart. (But since I had 2 Temples, I thought I could scry into what I needed.)

Ux seemed to be on the decline at my local FNM; the dominant decks have been Bx Control, Esper, and U/W, although there's typically a lot of assorted aggro,
so it really didn't cross my mind about a 4th dragon. I'm still not sure about it. Even though Ux kicked my butt yesterday, Boros Reckoner was a life saver in 2 of my matches (Rx Devo).

[magicdownunder]

Yeah your right, nothing wrong with your SB choices - I kinda like the Skullcrack, though I never manage to kill MoW with it - thus I would recommend taking Boros Charm since it is better for killing Jace or finishing the game. I don't think you "HAVE" to play the forth dragon, since it allowed you to cut down on land and run 2x Boros Reckoner which I do like.

[DerWille]

@DerWille: I actually lost vs the Elspeth + Chandra Combo before so I don't see anything wrong with your list and keep in mind the Elspeth concept was originally your idea in the first place so I reckon you would be the best person to tweak it further.

You're a better player than I am and play a lot more so, I figured you would be a better judge than myself. I'm unsure where to cut for the extra Chandra. My hunch is that against a bunch of random decks, 3 chains is probably where, but I do like 4 chains main board.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ Montu: Just so you don't get a judge called on you, you can't do anything on the draw step. Neither player has priority.

@ MDU: My friend tries to nail down the meta in that way, but he always seems to be wrong. He seems to think mono- black is now non-existent and aggro is everywhere.

@ Group: Has anyone tested Firemane Avenger over Skyknight Legionaire?

@ DerWille: List looks fine. You don't need 3x Chandra. 2x Chandra 3x Chains is good unless you expect zero control.

[DerWille]

Oh shit, I meant x3 chains. Yeah, no control at most of the stores I go to. Lots of Mono-Green and Mono-Black (at the moment).

[Lightning_Dolt]

3x Chains, 2x Chandra seems good to me, but if your meta has no control, 4 chains, 1 Chandra might be fine.

Anyone have spicy tech vs Fiendslayer Paladin when it gets boarded in G2+3 vs Uw/x? Causing me headaches.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Anyone else see this?:

[deck= RW Midrange by Michael Kenney Top 8 at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/4/2014]
Creatures (16)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

Planeswalkers (3)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Lands (25)
11 Mountain
3 Plains
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Spells (16)
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars

Sideboard (15)
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Last Breath
2 Wear // Tear
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Forum member?

[DerWille]

Someone actually found a way to make the Assemble the Legion + Purphoros, God of the Forge combo work? I'm kind of amazed. He must have been laughing his ass off when he was able to combo.

Although, I like the early drops in our decks. It lets us be the aggressor in a lot of match ups. I've come up with a version of Chandra + Elspeth and did some testing against my buddy's green ramp deck (uses a bit of hexproof). The card draw and falter are nice, but it almost feels like I might be forcing something that doesn't belong. At the same time, she greatly enhances draws that are low drop heavy and helps dig to find the cards that I need.

[deck]
Creatures (18)
3 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (14)
1 Assemble the Legion
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
4
Lightning Strike

Planeswalkers (3)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Land (25)
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
11 Mountain

Sideboard(15)
1 Assemble the Legion
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Last Breath
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Skullcrack
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

I only have 3 dragons and Reckoners so that's why there is only 3. The Assemble is mainboard to be the 4th 5 drop. I kind of want to run 2 Temple of Silence in place of the guildgates. I think 19 red sources is probably enough for the deck and scrying really seems to help the deck come together.

This is what I'm thinking my sideboard plan is

vs Green variant
OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler, 3 Firedrinker Satyr, 2(3) Ash Zealot
IN: 1 Assemble the Legion, 3 [card]Boros
Reckoner[/card], 1 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], (1 [card]Wear // Tear[/card] [Meta call - Most green decks here run some combination of Primeval Bounty, Bow of Nylea, or Fleetfeather Sandals, yes the sandals, they're dumb until you get turn 4 to 6, Kalonian Hydras with haste and flying])

vs Mono Black
OUT: 3 Stormbreath Dragon, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 1 Magma Jet
IN: 1 Assemble the Legion, 1 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Skullcrack, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]

vs Mono Blue (Note: People have cards for this but no one runs it. So,
I've never gone against it.)
OUT: 1 Assemble the Legion, 3 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler
IN: 1 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]

vs Esper Control
OUT: 1 Assemble the Legion, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Chained to the Rocks
IN: Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Skullcrack, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]

vs Rx Aggro
OUT: 1 Assemble the Legion, 3 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler
IN: 3 Boros Reckoner, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card:
29ayam9q]

vs Jund Midrange
OUT: 4 Magma Jet, 3 Stormbreath Dragon
IN: 1 Assemble the Legion, 2 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]

EDIT: Changed sentence about mono-blue sideboard to actually make sense. I've been out of it all day.

[Jabberwocky]

@ Montu: Just so you don't get a judge called on you, you can't do anything on the draw step. Neither player has priority.

I did just get back into the game so I might be wrong, but I thought players could have priority during the draw step, just not during the untap step. Granted, I'm sure not many people WANT to do anything during draw but we're not "many people."

This is where I am getting that conclusion from:

502. Untap Step
502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in. This all happens simultaneously. This turn-based action
doesn’t use the stack. See rule702.25, “Phasing.”

502.2. Second, the active player determines which permanents he or she controls will untap. Then he or she untaps them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. Normally, all of a player’s permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player’s permanents from untapping.

502.3. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, “Upkeep Step.”)

503. Upkeep Step
503.1. First, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the upkeep step and any abilities that triggered during the turn’s untap step go on the stack. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”)

503.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may
cast spells and activate abilities.

503.3. If a spell states that it may be cast only “after [a player’s] upkeep step,” and the turn has multiple
upkeep steps, that spell may be cast any time after the first upkeep step ends.

504. Draw Step
504.1. First, the active player draws a card. This turn based action doesn’t use the stack.

504.2. Second, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the draw step and any other abilities that
have triggered go on the stack.

504.3. Third, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.

Active player gets priority and you can't go to another phase until both players pass priority with an empty stack, so you definitely have the chance to monstrous the dragon. This was right from the rules that I'm studying for RA/Judge, so if I'm reading it wrong please tell me. I didn't even think to monstrous the dragon during the draw step but it looks like it's
pretty good if I can since I can do it before they drop a land or try to play a creature.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I've been told by a judge (level 2) that no one has priority on the draw step and spells / abilities cannot be used. Maybe they've changed the rules? They do that often enough it's hard to keep track of.