[Primer] Devotion Red

[rcwraspy]

I like that list a lot, Purp. I like that it doesn't waste any time with Frostburn Weird. I know that card is good against aggro and helps Devotion, but I've always found it sup-optimal for an aggro-devotion build. It also clogs up your 2-drop spot when you have better plays with Ash Zealot and BTE.

[Purp]

here is the spotlighting article..

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11556

[dpaine88]

That list is interesting but no Chains/Mortors seems pretty crazy.....

[Volition]

Good day devotion mages,

I gave devotion a go between about early November to early December, and found it extremely fragile to decks that pack a lot of 1 for 1 hate - such as mono black. Like people here, i tried with cacklers in and out, and Satyrs in the board for control matchups. Overall, i ended up going over to Pyrowhite, and am loving it.

I have noticed on the results from mtgtop8, there have been a significant number of Devotion to Boros lists making top 8 of mtgo tournaments. Do you guys have any insight as to why the sudden spike? Do you think RW devotion it is just being played more? I dont think the metagame is that much different from a month ago to really change my tune on the deck.

[rcwraspy]

Good day devotion mages,

I gave devotion a go between about early November to early December, and found it extremely fragile to decks that pack a lot of 1 for 1 hate - such as mono black. Like people here, i tried with cacklers in and out, and Satyrs in the board for control matchups. Overall, i ended up going over to Pyrowhite, and am loving it.

I have noticed on the results from mtgtop8, there have been a significant number of Devotion to Boros lists making top 8 of mtgo tournaments. Do you guys have any insight as to why the sudden spike? Do you think RW devotion it is just being played more? I dont think the metagame is that much different from a month ago to really change my tune on the deck.

Which version of devotion did you play?

nRed splashing white has the added benefit of resiliency with Boros Charm and some people are trying out Legion's Initiative also.

If you have acceleration (Nykthos, and BTE helps spit out multiple things a turn) and resiliency you've already hedged a good deal against the 1for1 removal decks.

[Volition]

Which version of devotion did you play?

Red White, splashing for chained and then some charms. The issue i found was that if they killed your t2 ash zealot or frostburn weird, or got you top decking later in the game, you were in a pretty tight spot. Definitely not saying i am an authority on the deck - far from it - i found that when playing against mono black in particular if felt more like whack a mole - i play one creature, they kill it, rinse repeat. That being said, the sick draws were, well, really sick and make people want to either swap to devotion or stop playing standard.

[Pedros]

What do you guys think abput Jim Davis naya devotion, especially the fact he was only playing 2 fanatic of mogis? Crazy? Genious?

He replaced them with Mindsparker, I can understand this choice(solid vs agro and control plus there isnt a lot of cards to play on turn 3), butnI thought fanatic was a purpose of playing devo red.

List: http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/85402

[Aodh]

I ran Erik's Invi. list with 1 P. Daddy -> 1 Thunder-thighs at FNM to a 4-0-2 T8 split for $36. I never drew Purphoros, but Chandra seemed absolutely ridiculous. All of our cards are better than Shock, so I'm not sure why Purph' is needed at all.

[LP, of the Fires]

I similarly ran Erik's invi list(mostly cause I didn't notice Jim Davis's deck ran only 2 mogis till this morning and that made me uncomfortable) and top 8'd an SCG IQ going 5-1-1 before losing in top 8 to mono-black.

I can see why the deck is good. I've never played the boros deck in tourney till today, had no idea how to sideboard, and made several misplays, and I was just beating players much better then myself. May write a tourney report tomorrow after I've slept.

[Tyrael]

I don't see any Chandra's in any of these lists, is she simply not needed?

[LP, of the Fires]

The RW and RG versions are drastically different. The RW deck is very aggressive and tends to kill people much faster without needing something like Chandra. The RG version plays a longer game and is more concerened about board presence so Thunder thighs is a perfect card in said list.

[LP, of the Fires]

Played against the list puph linked and while the guy was x-1 in round 4, that deck seemed really bad to me.

[LaZerBurn]

Any thoughts on Rhea Steel's list http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/85394guys? I like the look of it but I've not played it. I like the look of her too so I need RedBros input to check I'm not being in anyway influenced by her redhaired loveliness

[LP, of the Fires]

I think her deck is good but worse then Erik Smiths.

I just don't like what her board is doing. It's assemble+a million reactive cards.

[Tyrael]

The RW and RG versions are drastically different. The RW deck is very aggressive and tends to kill people much faster without needing something like Chandra. The RG version plays a longer game and is more concerened about board presence so Thunder thighs is a perfect card in said list.

Makes sense

I might trade my chandra's for nykthos' and Purp's and give this baby a spin next FNM

[magicdownunder]

LP, of the Fires can you post the current list your running (full 75)? I've hit a wall with Boros I'm not sure how to tweak it further so I could use some change.

[Purp]

The list and sideboard strategy I posted was from Erik Smith and I have been talking to him since the invitational. He said he wouldnt make any changes except maybe a card or two in the sideboard, he also plans on playing that all ptq season. I'd say thats a good place to start MDU

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm using Eric Smiths list. He top 8'd the last SCG invitational and won the previous won fyi:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
11 Mountain
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Rakdos Cackler
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Boros Charm
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Last Breath
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

[Purp]

and here was his sb strat

Against monoblack:
+4 Satyr, +2 Assemble, +2 Chained
-4 Dragon, -2 Weird, -2 Mortars

Against Esper/UW:
+4 Satyr, +2 Assemble, +3 Charm
-4 Reckoner, -2 Chained, -2 Mortars, -1 Fanatic

Against monoblue:
+2 Chained, +2 Mortars, +2 Last Breath
-4 Cackler, -2 Zealot

Against white weenie:
+2 Chained, +2 Mortars, +2 Last Breath
-4 Cackler, -1 Purphoros, -1 Hammer

Against monored aggro (heavy 1 drop version):
+2 Chained, +2 Mortars, +2 Last Breath
-2 Dragon, -2 Fanatic, -1 Purphoros, -1 Hammer,
(I've been experimenting with this. Cackler usually stays leashed just to threaten to trade with their X/1's. I used to side out the Cacklers rather than the Dragon/Fanatic but I've been testing this out and it's been fine - you don't need an abundance of win cons)

Against Gx devotion:
+2 Chained, +2 Mortars, +2 Assemble
-4 Cackler, -2 Zealot

Against mirror:
+2 Chained, +2
Mortars
-4 Cackler

[magicdownunder]

Thanks for the quick posts guys, I'm not sure I agree with all the SB plans I saw in your post purp but I do see some immediate tweaks I want to try

off-topic: Booster are under $3 again, I wish I sold them before I went on break...

[LP, of the Fires]

FUCKING NINJA'D

The reason this deck is excellent as I think I've mentioned before is that in postboard games vs. slow decks, you simply have 8 1-drops. Without going into board plans, I'll give advice for how to play various matchups.

The mirror:

The mirror is simple, Life totals don't matter until they do, it's all about board presence. When given a choice between getting damage in and playing removal spells, it's usually correct to play the removal spell unless it's a mortars that you think you can overload and if your not sure, just mortars the weird. Knowing how to use your removal best and navigating the combat step are the most important things in this matchup. You generally want to always leave blockers up after they have 3 mana and 4 or more devotion on board if you aren't swinging for lethal as getting hammered/mogis'd is always a thing.

Mono-Black:

Something I learned from not playing
frostburn weird for a while is that pharika's cure deals damage so you generally don't want to pump your weird more then once into BB. This matchup is all about pressuring there life total and getting under their removal. They don't run board wipes so try to just flood the board with guys. Hammer and Purphoros himself are amazing in this matchup since they can't be answered directly. The way you're gonna lose is to them chaining removal into demon and stalling to merchant. Rakdos cackler is important to your racing plan as it (obviously) allows you to pressure them from turn one and less obviously gives you something you don't mind sacking to demon which the g splash version can almost never afford to do.

Mono-Blue:

Be better at racing? That's basically it. In the devotion mirror between two aggressive decks, the nykthos based one should have the advantage so I wouldn't be worried about this matchup though to be fair, I haven't played against it much myself.

UW control:

Overcommit into
verdict but not detention sphere if you can help it. The thing is, stormbreath trumps their deck. the only answers they have are Wrath and MAYBE celestial flare, so it's fine to get 4-4-1'd if you're going to resolve a stormbreath the following turn.

Esper:

The above plan is much less good vs. esper since they have black removal, but they also have 3 colors and are about a turn or two slower to getting online so it's a pretty easy matchup. The exception being BBD's tapout esper list which I've struggled against. That deck is the perfect speed for preying on us.

Orzhov Humans:

I think this might be a bad matchup. Imposing soverign can be a huge pain to deal with as well as soldier of the pantheon especially when backed up by removal, tricks and 6 power worth of other guys to worry about. I think it might be correct to keep cacklers in vs. this deck as 1 mana doom blades.

[magicdownunder]

I'd say the Devotion red of all colors is great vs. control and the boros deck in particular is very good vs. mono-black.

End off topic posting.

I wanted to carry on with this discussion, I certainly believe that Red Devo can take down Black - but I don't understand why you believe control to be a favorable MU.

Ux and Bx devotion win via pure CA while Gx and Rx Devotion require a critical mass, thus if control sweeps the board and follows up with Elspeth its all but over (Boros Aggro gets around this with vaults and burn). Now I know Boros Devotion can beat Control but its clearly not in our favor.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd say the Devotion red of all colors is great vs. control and the boros deck in particular is very good vs. mono-black.

End off topic posting.

I wanted to carry on with this discussion, I certainly believe that Red Devo can take down Black - but I don't understand why you believe control to be a favorable MU.

Ux and Bx devotion win via pure CA while Gx and Rx Devotion require a critical mass, thus if control sweeps the board and follows up with Elspeth its all but over (Boros Aggro gets around this with vaults and burn). Now I know Boros Devotion can beat Control but
its clearly not in our favor.

The R/G deck had a great control matchup due to attacking from approximately one million angles. Purphoros, Hammer, dragon, ash zealot, domri, Chandra, xenagos. Having all of those cards in the main made control your favorite matchup as you would just repeatedly drop threats that required unique answers, usually detention sphere if the spell resolved and each of the walkers threatened to just win the game by themselves.

The boros deck gives up the planeswalkers in exchange for chained to the rocks wich makes Mono-blue a fine matchup instead of an uphill battle. But it also makes up for missing the superior mid/late game through superior sideboard options along with rakdos cacklers to make a more aggressive maindeck. Vs. control, You can lose game ones to drawing multiple copies of chains and/or mortars, but if your opponent is Esper, your mortars are at least live, and against UW, verdict is something you ACTIVELY WANT TO FORCE THEM TO PLAY if you have
mouthbreather dragon since verdict is the ONLY answer they have to the card aside from Elspeth. I've been testing tis deck heavily since my IQ top 8 and the only control deck I've lost to is BBD's more midrangey tapout deck. Vs. Other control decks, I can usually agro them out, and game 2, I get to board into 8 1 drops and boros charm making the matchup extremely favorable.

it's also relevant that if they don't have Dsphere or if they have 1 but you have multiple copies of noncreature permanents, you can win easily with just hammer/purphoros/Chandra.

IMO matchups look like this:

UW control: 55%

Esper: 65%+

Mono-Black: 60%+(I'm actually sure it's much better then this)

Mono-Blue: IDK. The've never had master or I've always had the chain. #smallsamplesize

Green Devotion: Probably unfavorable, but green players are terrible and I always win the close games. Board games can be rough.

W/x agro: I'm 50% against it, but I think it's slightly unfavorable with Erik smiths list. If
you're worried about this deck, play 3 angers and 2 Chandra, and this matchup is likely a bye.

If I've missed anything relevant, tell me.

[magicdownunder]

I've never been comfortable playing decks which primarily turn cards sideways nor has the replay on MTGO provided me with much confidences, however I thoroughly respect your opinion (solid posts ).

I'll will need to test this deck myself (I'll admit I'm still slightly concerned this will be another $20 I'm going to miss, yeah I don't care if its technically free due to my inf. streak - $20 is still $20) if the MU rates prove solid I shouldn't really lose any events and recover my expenses in a flash.

EDIT: Tomorrow I'll test the deck card-by-card, if I lose to something other then pure deck variance I'll trial a fusion of Ari Lax's Removal suit 3/3 Chains and Mortars + 3 Angers on the board with the 1-Drop Erik Smiths variant.

I love my 1-Drops and my removals so heck I may start with the removal
heavy version

[LP, of the Fires]

[deck]Main Deck
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Boros Guildgate
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Ash Zealot
4 Sacred Foundry
12 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wear and Tear
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros Charm
2 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

Thea Steels Deck which top 8'd the same invitational and is basically what ari lax was changing. I don't like this deck as much as Helix and Wear/tear just aren't cards that I think you need to be casting, but it probably suits your style much better MDU

Instead of cacklers, you get +2 removal, Chandra, and a Land(the land should PROBABLY be another
Chandra?)

[LaZerBurn]

Where is the Ari Lax article/deck please? I can't find it anywhere - yes, I have tried searching

[magicdownunder]

Where is the Ari Lax article/deck please? I can't find it anywhere - yes, I have tried searching

SGC premium (paid service)

@LP, of the Fires: Ari Lax's sideboard choices and play style confused the heck out of me but the fact that he won nonetheless is what impresses me

I don't really like his list either though, so I'll would try merging the decks rather then taking one over the other.

That said in the next two hours I'll be playing Erik / thoughtxriot older list card-by-card since I believe 2x last Breath is really important now

(p.s. if you want to talk with Erik, head on to Sally he is rather vocal about his choices)

[LP, of the Fires]

Ari had never played the deck before and didn't know what he was doing.

And I agree, the fact that he played terribly and went, what 4-1 is a testament to the power of the deck.

[magicdownunder]

Played two SE and a few 2-Man, running Erik list.

My thoughts:
24 lands isn't enough (mulling is really hard for this deck)
Ux Devotion is a bad MU
Games are dictated on your first few draws

I ran cold mostly due to variance and some really really horrible plays on my end, I think I'm just not good at running decks without some form of deck manipulation (spoiled silly by Scry and Blue cards) I need control in my games.

It does feel great when you slamming them for 7+ damage with Gods and Mogis...

I lost to Ux Devotion in 3 matches and UW in 1 match, I beat Gr, GW, Bx and Rx I'm not sure I want to continue with the testing so Lazerburn once you come back I can lend ya the lands, god and hammer (though the hammer is cheap).

[LP, of the Fires]

Get cockatrice so we can playtest together without me having to spend money

[magicdownunder]

Get cockatrice so we can playtest together without me having to spend money

Hisssss 'cockatrice' I'm gonna try asking the boys on Sally about Magma Jet - since Erik posts very regularly.

On a side note: I do find it quite interesting that I can't find him in any MOCS or posting many finishes during DE (I do know he does play them) it could just be meta game is rather brutal for slightly poor draws in Rx Devo.

[LP, of the Fires]

Get cockatrice so we can playtest together without me having to spend money

Hisssss 'cockatrice' I'm gonna try asking the boys on Sally about Magma Jet - since Erik posts very regularly.

On a side note: I do find it quite interesting that I can't find him in any MOCS or posting many finishes during DE (I do know he does play them) it could just be meta game is rather brutal for slightly poor draws in Rx Devo.

I'm getting MODO one day, but the idea of losing a match due to a misclick(has definitely happened to me) is tilting
just to think about and I enjoy how trice is such easier to use for testing decks without necessitating me to invest in decks I'm not sure I'll even play.

[Purp]

Cockatrice shuffler is worse than modos, which is why I taking testing on there with a grain of salt.

[LP, of the Fires]

Blaming the shuffler is 100% stupid and an invalid form of argument

[Tyrael]

All right, since I'm still awaiting my Nykthos', Purps and my last Dragon I decided to remake my small devotion aggro list.

[deck= Tyrael's small devotion aggro]
Creatures (26)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Mouthbreather Dragon

Spells (9)
3 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chained to the Rocks

Thighs (2)
2 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

Lands (23)
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
14 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Charm
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Last Breath
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

I know it's not the best thing ever but I think it's the best I can do with what I have. After running in to one of our Mono U players at my last FNM I don't ever wanna leave home without CTTR again. Any thoughts? (Tyrael, your mana curve sucks etc...)
n
Oh and I sideboarded the satyrs because my meta mainly consists of aggro and G/x Devotion decks right now which means it tends to screw me over quite often. They are invaluable vs control though which is why I decided to keep them in the SB instead of cutting them completely.

[Khaospawn]

Why only 3 lighting strike? Bump that count up to four!

[Tyrael]

So, 4 Strikes/3 Jets?

Anything else you'd change? I currently don't have access to mutavaults (that would push this into Big Boros territory but I guess that would be OK) but I do have an extra Dragon I could add, I'm just not sure if the mana base can handle it or if it's even necessary.

[Khaospawn]

I don't have qualms with anything else. I understand that this is what you want to play, and nobody else is going to know it any better than yourself. Although, if I have to recommend any other changes, I'd probably yank the Burning-Trees and maindeck Satyr. But after that, then the deck starts to look more and more like my current Dragon deck, except it's splashing White for Chains instead of some Shocks.

[Pedros]

Ok after playing rakdos agro and loving that deck can we discuss rakdos devotion?

Important part of the deck is access for rakdos's return, black also gives you solid removal for master that doeant need mountains and is instant speed.

Or is it just not worth it as assemble and boros charm (if it is only for damage then toil/trouble can be replacement especially with nykthos) is so important?

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd say zero scrylands make the idea terrible, bur more then that, what does black add that the deck WANTS?

Do we even WANT rakdos's return? We might, but not in the main. And if it's something we bring out of the board, how much better is is then the stuff we already have? Is instant speed removal necessary especially when we're trying to tap out all of the time?

I'm not shooting down the idea, I'm just asking questions that need answers.