[Primer] Boros Burn

[Aodh]

Sorry to hear that; what'd you face?

[Tyrael]

Mono U devotion, G/R devotion and Azorius (had a bye for round 3)

Against mono U I just got extremely unlucky with my draws, against G/R I played poorly (too much burn on creatures, not enough on his face) and Azorius... Honestly that felt unwinnable even with the dragons sided in...

[magicdownunder]

The Player of the Year 2013 Standard Event (best of the best around the world): Top8 (fifth place)

[deck]lands 25
9 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

creatures 11
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Stormbreath Dragon

other spells 24
2 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Shock
4 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
4 Skullcrack
2 Toil // Trouble[/deck]
It amuses me how close my original burn sketch looked like this list (Anger of The Gods, Mutavault and Walkers), upping the land count to 25 make its a deck I wouldn't mind sleeving up once I return to magic (very soon now).

[Tyrael]

4 mutavaults

my wallet is weeping already

[Valdarith]

The Cacklers confuse me. Seems like a VERY bad topdeck in a deck that wants very good ones.

[Tyrael]

I'd change Cackler and Crack around since Crack is never really a dead card and you really only want cackler vs control and mono B anyway

[magicdownunder]

The Cacklers confuse me. Seems like a VERY bad topdeck in a deck that wants very good ones.

*Disclaimer this argument may not hold weight if you don't play Modern*

Modern Burn runs about 8 creature adv. 4x always being Goblin Guide - in Modern T2+3 EVERYTHING outclasses him so on T3 he is a bad top-deck. People still run Goblin Guide because he just wins you games when he matter (vs control and Combo) Cackler works in the same manner here, he is horrible T3+ but he doesn't get outclassed until T3 (since he trade with almost everything on T2).

I'll MD Cackler and so does all of the MOCS level Burn player in STD.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Anyhow I tested the deck and torn through Gx Devotion and UW Control,
when the deck works its ****ing great but it feel very unstable - sometimes I don't really know what the deck wants me to do with my resources, its kinda all over place with lands, CC and creatures - I'm not sure this is the type of deck I want to run for MOCS2 since I believe its one of those decks which either runs really hot or just ice cold.

[Valdarith]

One thing GG has that Cackler doesn't is haste. I think that's a huge difference. I'd rather be playing Ash Zealot in that slot.

[JdubCT]

4 mutavaults

my wallet is weeping already

At some point you just have to bite the bullet and get that playset. Mutas are useful in so many decks it's definitely worth the investment, it isn't like buying blood-barons for 20 each when it only fits in one of your decks.

[Tyrael]

Muta just rose to a dazzling 26 euros a piece so yea no

One thing GG has that Cackler doesn't is haste. I think that's a huge difference. I'd rather be playing Ash Zealot in that slot.

Ash Zealot dies to doom blade and ultimate price so that's one thing to consider vs mono B for example

[Valdarith]

Obviously yes. I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each. I'd still prefer Ash Zealot. If given the choice I'll always run the more powerful card, and Ash Zealot fits in perfectly with what burn is trying to accomplish.

[Tyrael]

Fair enough, would you still run them MB?

[Valdarith]

Over Cackler? I would. While it does have downside vs mono black, it's the better card in every other matchup. It hates on Azorius Charm in UWx, blocks for days vs aggro, and powers through fatties with burn vs midrange.

[LP, of the Fires]

The better card I think is the one that comes down sooner. There's also the very real fact that this deck is mana hungry, color intensive, and has approx. a million scry effects.

Turn 1 and turn 2 cackler are very threating and real possibilities. Turn 1 ash zealot doesn't exist and turn 2 ash zealot is unrealistic. Turn three ash zealot fights with your curve. It all comes down to velocity and sequencing. Cackler aids and abets both of those things. Ash zealot is restrictive and a hindrance.

@MDU: if you want a red deck for the MOCS, try Boros devotion. Ari Lax has videos playing it and despite not knowing what he's doing, he's blowing people out.

[magicdownunder]

The better card I think is the one that comes down sooner. There's also the very real fact that this deck is mana hungry, color intensive, and has approx. a million scry effects.

Turn 1 and turn 2 cackler are very threating and real possibilities. Turn 1 ash zealot doesn't exist and turn 2 ash zealot is unrealistic. Turn three ash zealot fights with your curve. It all comes down to velocity and sequencing. Cackler aids and abets both of those things. Ash zealot is restrictive and a hindrance.

@MDU: if you want a red deck for the MOCS, try Boros devotion. Ari Lax has videos playing it and despite not knowing what he's doing, he's blowing people out.

Solid reasoning with Cackler, I glad other people can see its value.

I will try
Boros Devotion, I've been avoiding it like the plague due to fear of playing a deck without removal (so you can guess what my tweaks will be...).

That said on MTGO Rx Devotion hasn't been doing well in MOCS level events, in the last 2 Standard MOCS I had the best placing for Red Aggro decks while Devo sat well below - then for the Player of the Year Standard we didn't see any Rx Devotion decks.

I think that is because the best magic players tend to prefer Tempo or Control which Devo struggles against (MOCS and PotY is most likely the most skill magic event imho thus making an excellent gauge).

Note: Rx Devotion is doing well in PE and DE though

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd say the Devotion red of all colors is great vs. control and the boros deck in particular is very good vs. mono-black.

End off topic posting.

[Valdarith]

I've never not been able to cast Ash Zealot on turn two, but then again I'm playing an entirely different game than you guys.

[TBuzzsaw]

Holiday season is over and I can attend events again! This is what I'm taking tonight to FNM:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Boros Charm
2 Warleader's Helix
4 Chained to the Rocks

Land
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Mutavault
10 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Spark Trooper
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Toil // Trouble[/deck]


The only real changes I've made is replacing the Cacklers in the SB for two more Toil//Trouble and Chandra. I only bring in the Cacklers against control and Mono Black, but I feel the replacements will work better. Chandra does well in testing, so I'm trying her out tonight to see how she really tests. I'll be back tonight with a report.

[TBuzzsaw]

Went 3-3 tonight. My meta has changed A LOT. All the green decks have been replaced by MUD and UW Control, and Mono Black is just about gone. I won against Black, GW aggro, and MUD, but I lost to another MUD and two UW control. UW is a TOUGH match up for this deck. I may have to add room for Glare of Heresy because Elspeth just kills me every time.

[Aodh]

Elspeth shouldn't matter at all. Out of UW, Fiendslayer Paladin is probably the only problem.

[TBuzzsaw]

I should probably rephrase that and say she's their only finisher and if she resolves and you're not close to lethal range, you lose. My problem was that both UW players know what the deck is capable of and knew exactly what to do.

[xbento]

Been playing this deck for a month now, my LGS has a 4 round cut to top 8 standard event 4 nights a week and I have only not top 8'd twice with this list (plus or minus a few changes here and there).
[deck]
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Silence
2 Mutavault
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Annihilating Fire
1 Aurelia's Fury
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Sideboard
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Mutavault
2 Wear/Tear
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Toil/Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks

[/deck]

[Grazak]

Are these builds viable without Mutavault? I can't afford them at the moment.

[Tyrael]

Yeah, but the U/W matchup will be shoddy without them

[TBuzzsaw]

Yeah, but the U/W matchup will be shoddy without them

I can vouch for this. The match is a huge uphill battle.

[Tyrael]

Yeah, but the U/W matchup will be shoddy without them

I can vouch for this. The match is a huge uphill battle.

Somehow they always manage to stabilize at 2 to 4 life. So infuriating.

[Crims0n]

any new versions out there?

[Googims]

@Crims0n
MDUs playing with a new version over on big boros

[deck=dmad422's Boros Burn]Lands 25
9 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Others 25
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Shock
4 Warleader's Helix

Creatures 10
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Sideboard 15
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack[/deck]

Standard Elimination Event 6647523 Report
Standard Elimination R1 Boros Burn vs Esper Aggro Event 6647523[
/url]
[url=http://youtu.be/Nm_SDwjNmVk]Standard Elimination R2 Boros Burn vs Ux Devotion Event 6647523
Standard Elimination R3 Boros Burn vs Gr Devotion Event 6647523

and another one with ash zealots md, no idea how to make it a spoiler thing to make my post more compressed

[Crims0n]

[deck]Creatures 12
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Other 25
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Toil // Trouble

Land 23
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Silence
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault[/deck]

seems pretty similar to my version. deck seems pretty solid.

[Valdarith]

4 dragons on 23 land? What world do you live in?

[magicdownunder]

4 dragons on 23 land? What world do you live in?

Have you seen the list on Sally with 8 4cc and 2 5cc in the 75 with only 22 lands? When you question them about they tell ya 25 lands is too much.... geez this is how you know people must cheat or poorly shuffle IRL.

[Valdarith]

It's even worse than last year when Gruul players were running four Hellrider on 20 land.

[rcwraspy]

It's even worse than last year when Gruul players were running four Hellrider on 20 land.

I did that for a while, but I ended up on 22 land. I found that since all the non-land cards in the deck were very aggressive, you were rewarded more often than punished because you load up on fuel more easily. There were certainly numerous times where Hellrider couldn't come down until turns 5 or 6, but that was still within the "I win?" window when you show the card in most cases. Unfortunately BTE isn't chaining into any more 2-drops with 3 power, so the turn 3 explosiveness isn't in the format any longer (unless a Nykthos god hand).

[Elricity]

I know I'm coming back from the dead here and see this is shifting to the dragon plan but what did anyone think of searing blood or satyr firedancer as sideboard cards?

Searing blood doesn't seem to have a place here as the damage to an aggro deck only helps for recurring phoenixes with the same spell.

I like Satyr though since it dodges the burn protection of fiendslayer paladin, BBV, and stormbreath. I think I want it versus red but I wouldn't know what to side out to bring reckoner, satyr, and spark troopers in. Particularly because with Satyr, I'd want to keep boros charm in most likely.

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I know I'm coming back from the dead here and see this is shifting to the dragon plan but what did anyone think of searing blood or satyr firedancer as sideboard cards?

Searing blood doesn't seem to have a place here as the damage to an aggro deck only helps for recurring phoenixes with the same spell.

I like Satyr though since it dodges the burn protection of fiendslayer paladin, BBV, and stormbreath. I think I want it versus red but I wouldn't know what to side out to bring reckoner, satyr, and spark troopers in. Particularly because with Satyr, I'd want to keep boros charm in most likely.

Searing Blood is a great sideboard card against aggro. It does what Firedancer does, except it is 100x more reliable and doesn't maker your Angers
worse.

[Elricity]

As an aggro deck against another aggro deck, searing blood is amazing to win the race. As a burn deck playing control against aggro, I'm not seeing the value of paying an extra red for 3 damage to an opponent other than recurring a phoenix to block within the same card. That's certainly ok but other cards are more powerful.

I still don't run anger but firedancer's fragileness does concern me. However, in multiples against any of the G/x or W/x decks, it's a one sided board sweeper that's also rapidly ending the game. In theory, at least.

[Guttler]

I've been thinking about Oracle of Bones as a potential include to the burn deck.

The one reason I think he can be good is that he combos with [card]Toil//Trouble[/card], he lets you cast both sides if they don't pay the tribute. If they do pay the tribute, he becomes a 5/3 Haste, which can mean a lot of pressure. In theory, he always represents 5+ damage for either the cost of 1 or 2 cards and the threat of him being a huge damage swing with a free toil//trouble or warleader's helix may force your opponent to pay tribute.

I also think burn has a chance in the metagame, because you present a reasonably quick and non-interactive clock, you pretty much completely blank your opponents interaction and slow early board development, forcing them into a race with you.

I think the last thing in the world you want to see in any of the UWx control decks
player is Turn 3 Trouble, Turn 4 Oracle of Bones into fused toil trouble. Can technically also be a great play vs Gx Devotion when they rush our an early planeswlakers for card advantage.

Here is a sample list:

[deck]
Creatures (9)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Oracle of Bones
1 Stormbreath Dragon or Chandra Pyromaster.

Lands (23)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Muravault
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
9 mountains

Spells (28)
4 Boros Charm
4 Toil//Trouble
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack
[/deck]

This is just a sample build and it doesn't even look that good to me. Using the RW shell it lets us potentially play Chained to the Rocks in some amount across the maindeck and sideboard. Another issue is that playing 4 Boros Charm, 4 Toil//Trouble, and 4 Skullcrack main is a nightmare for burn, but all those spells are very lacklustr vs aggro, meaning that you need to devote a large percentage of your sideboard to brining in
cards like Boros Reckoner, Chained to the Rocks, and Seering Blood to combat early creature decks.

[Elricity]

I could see oracle as a sideboard card vs control but aggro can ignore the card. Still not a fan of searing blood in burn as it is win more vs aggro and does nothing to control

[DriftingLifted]

Starcity versus video on the premium side with Brad Nelson playing his Boros Burn variant. Todd Anderson is an ass, and Satyr Firedancer is a house. Running 4x Phoenix, 4x Ash Zealot main along with Chains and burn. Sideboarding out Ash for Satyr Firedancer in the creature matchups.

[zemanjaski]

Can you post the list? Merci.