[Primer] Mono Blue Control

[zemanjaski]

www.twitch.tv/zemanjaski

in two hours.

[zemanjaski]

Had stream issues last night, had to record locally. Will be able to upload within a week hopefully.

[deck]Pauper MUC v4.5[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Counterspell
4 Deprive
2 Essence Scatter
4 Exclude
2 Oona's Grace
4 Repeal
4 Think Twice

Sorceries
4 Preordain

Lands
19 Island
3 Quicksand

Sideboard
2 Coast Watcher
2 Curfew
4 Hydroblast
4 Piracy Charm
3 Serrated Arrows
[/deck]

*Pip pointed out that all she ever hears is how good Serrated Arrows are, so I may as well play the 3rd copy.

[zemanjaski]

Have won 5 straight 8 mans. Get on my level.

[DarthStabber]

3 much?

I am undefeated in paper with burn, what's your point?

Maybe razzing too hard, congratulations!

[zemanjaski]

When I get back from holidays I want to try a more aggressive version with fewer land and more cantrips. I think Serum Visions is the next best cantrip actually; I don't like Ponder or Brainstorm in Pauper at all.

[zemanjaski]

I almost think I have too many counters; running a few less and more cantrips will let me find more counters if I want that effect; or find something else if that's what I need. Deprive is the worst counter in the deck (costs UU early and sets you back). Counterspell and Exclude are fantastic; if making that change probably switch Essence Scatter for Prohibit.

[Alex]

Just added Confound to the sideboard to shore up some of my annoyance with RUG tron matchup. Tired of getting my Delvers bolted forever, going to try and fix that problem.

[zemanjaski]

Hydroblast isn't enough?

Thoughts in next best cantrip after Preordain? I think it's Serum Visions, not Ponder.

[Alex]

Used Confound to take my opponent to Valuetown. Played against the Ghostly Flicker deck, ate his Flicker on the Mnemonic Wall+Mulldrifter, he immediately scooped.

[zemanjaski]

Ha!

[Alex]

I'm liking Looter Il-Kor too, I threw a singleton into the list and it's pretty sweet. It's like an Oona's Grace that does damage.

[DarthStabber]

Hydroblast isn't enough?

Thoughts in next best cantrip after Preordain? I think it's Serum Visions, not Ponder.

Opt, it's preordain only with scry 1 instead of 2 and an instant.

[zemanjaski]

So not good.

[DarthStabber]

So not good.

Opt isn't that bad, and serum visions isn't that good.

Other options at one or less mana that have some merit
[cards]gitaxian probe
halimar depths
Lonely sandbar
Cerulean wisps
disrupt
Portent
Thought scour[/cards]
Disrupt and Portent are my favorites. Disrupt isn't actually a deck manipulator, but a cantrip forcespike is attractive. Portent maybe a slowtrip, but hitting an opponent with it can be worth the delay.

[zemanjaski]

Scry 2 > Scry 1. Trust me, I write for CFB, I'm a pro

I should really get Ham to run the numbers on what definitively is the next best draw spell after Preordain. I really do think it's Serum Visions; Ponder / Brainstorm put the card in your hand immediately, but they also lock you into your next few draws if you keep. Not great.

Maybe something like this:

[deck]Mono Blue Tempo[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Counterspell
1 Dispel
4 Gush
3 Logic Knot
4 Piracy Charm
4 Vapor Snag

Sorceries
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
4 Serum Visions

Lands
16 Island
[/deck]

Non-Delver creatures are up for discussion. The second 1 mana cantrip is also up for debate.

[Jack]

I'm with zem here. The entire reason we play these cards is to avoid being stuck with bad draws, so Brainstorm (and possibly Ponder) are out of the question. Opt is bad, since Scry 1 is just so much weaker than Scry 2. It's redeeming quality is that it can be cast at instant speed, so it can find an answer to something on the stack, but that still makes it a very niche card. I'd say we do Serum Visions or nothing.

[zemanjaski]

The biggest opportunity for improvement in my current decklist is in improving the counter suite.

We're going to run a lot; counterspells are really good in the current format; the deck's threats cost very little (1 for Delver, 2 or less for Spire Golem, typically). The best two are Counterspell and Exclude, of which I want 4. Beyond that conceivably playable options are:
- maindeck Piracy Charm; it's not a counter but 1 mana terminate or duress is pretty good. However, it's a bad duress against Affinity, MBC, MUC (usually) and Auras, which is 4/5 of the top decks...
- Dispel as a singleton; it has targets against nearly every deck and when you use it it's usually amazing.
- Miscalculation; great early in that it soft counters what you care about; creatures. Your deck doesn't care that much about removal since you'll just find more threats later. This has some potential.
Overall it's a bit sketchy; games go long with this deck so it eventually becomes dead; while it does cycle, if it were just a real hard counter you'd not have any problems.
- Deprive; I love Deprive and past a certain point it's actually better than Counterspell (with Oona's Grace); but it sucks in your opener or early because it sets you back too much. I run 4 and I think the correct number is honestly 1.
- Logic Knot; I think this is probably the best Deprive alternative; it's probably only Force Spike or Miscalculation early, but that's all you need to stop a 2 drop on the draw; later when your grave yard fills (as it's prone to with this deck) it's just a hard counter.
- Essence Scatter; two is probably too many, but I've liked it as again, a 2 mana counter on the draw is so useful in so many matchups and it hits everything you care about vs. affinity / MBC, whereas Prohibit doesn't.

I don't like Prohibit on account of how bad it is on the draw against MBC and Affinity (I tried it then
switched to Essence Scatter). It's not bad but I'm not sold on it (it also can't directly counter a Spire Golem in the mirror and that matters).

Beyond that, while I love Sea Gate Oracle, it's really only very good against MBC (11%) and Stompy (4%). Bad aura players run Boggle into it with you holding Repeal; but that's probably not enough to warrant inclusion! I still want some number in my 75, but they're probably moving to the board so I can more fully play draw go.

Running more UU spells means needing 20 islands again, but that makes my Spire Golems better too.

[deck]MUC CORE[/deck]
Lands
20 Island
2 Quicksand

Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Counterspell
4 Exclude
2 Oona's Grace
4 Think Twice
4 Repeal

Sorceries
4 Preordain
[/deck]

That's 52 cards. I'd want at least 4 more counters (say, 1 Deprive, 1 Essence Scatter, 2 Logic Knot); maybe 4 more
cantrips for the final few slots? As far as I can tell the choices are between (in no order):
- Ponder; looks three deep (big plus), puts the best card immediately into hand (big plus), makes you keep all three (small drawback) or shuffle (big plus). Shuffling isn't that bad with Preordain either, since it won't come up too often anyway, and early on it's irrelevant when you're looking for land drops; later you see so many cards it doesn't really matter.
- Serum Visions; scry 2 is fantastic (big plus). Drawing a random card is pretty meh (neutral). Sets up Delver (big plus). That you can't dig for a Counterspell when you need it is a bit off putting; synergizes well with Preordain.
- Sleight of Hand; if both cards are bad, or both are good, this sucks. Otherwise very good. I think it's clearly the weakest of the three though.

And Not:
- Brainstorm; awful in the format with no fetches. Why? You're keeping all three! Ponder has a shuffle clause if the three are bad.
- Gitaxian Probe; it's an
aggressive format and you're not actually tempo, you're control, so you're not able to make great use of the info. It's a pretty marginal card.
- Opt; not a powerful enough effect compared to the alternatives.

Explanations:
Creatures
DEFINITELY
- Delver: it's a 1 mana 3 power flyer. This is a finisher; you usually can't support a straight aggro draw; but against some decks you'll want that. Usually best to hold them until you've got some control of the game.
- Spire Golem: it's another super cheap flier that defends well, pretty self explanatory really.

MAYBE
- Sea Gate Oracle: it's a wonderful 2-for-1 but you usually can't tap out early, even in matchups where you want the blocker. I've found a lot if success with it against MBC where he shines (blocks their ground dudes; eats their edicts for your finishers) and against weenie aggro; but those are already good matchups. It's less good against Auras than you'd like.
- Omenspeaker: little SGO; it's got the
body coming down a turn faster. That's a big plus. Scry 2 is very good, given the high power level of cards in the deck; but not drawing a card does mean you're still playing a 1/3...how bad is that? With the meta as it is, pretty bad. If we head back towards lots if weenie aggro this starts to look very good; a 2 mana wall that actually eats a lot of creatures is good in pauper.

NOT
- Cloud of Faeries; awful in this archetype, only played as an enabler to other bad cards
- Spellstutter Sprite; counters a lot of relevant cards, but is just horrible against Affinity, MUC and MBC, aka the top 3 decks...
- Ninja of the Deep Hours: so bad it makes my brain hurt
- Frostburn Weird: too many intensive, too crappy in multiples. You could try playing two copies, but I'm not sure it isn't just a bad SGO at it's pinnacle.

Instants
- Counterspell: no explanation necessary
- Exclude: Pauper is a creature format. Only 1 archetype between tier 1/2 is creature light (burn); against
any other deck this card is absurd.
- Oona's Grace: I originally underestimated this card, but it's what gives you an unbeatable endgame. I went to two from one because converting a small advantage into a win usually involves this card; you need two so that you're finding one most games.
- Think Twice: better than AK until you find the 4th copy; if games are going that long you're winning anyway...

See above for further Counterspell and Cantrip discussion.

Turning to the sideboard, based on my experiences so far:

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

I like Curfew too, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

Talking to a few other pauper elite and I suggested [card]Oona's Gatewarden[/card], possibly in place of Coast Watcher, for Stompy, Slivers and Auras. Will need to test, but I like it in theory since even if it doesn't trade it makes the creature pretty easy to handle later.

[zemanjaski]

I'd need to test and see how good the MBC matchup is with more cantrips / fewer counters before building the SB.

[Alex]

I haven't been in love with Quicksand. I've been considering ditching it for Lonely Sandbar because a lot of the format flies, and the matchups that don't fly are already pretty good.

[zemanjaski]

It's mostly in for Kilclops, which admittedly is even less popular now. It's randomly good against Ninja's though and you can Grace it away later if you don't need it as a land drop early. With Ninjas as the most popular deck, I won't cut it.

[Alex]

That matchup is already pretty fair if you can just lock them in a board stall with Golems. Looter Il-Kor is actually pretty insane there though, if you're still stuck on which creatures are good enough.

PS: I've been playing the mini Muddle package (2 Muddles in the main) and it has been infinitely useful to me with the Spectral Flights being in the main as well. There were times where I was stuck in a board lock, and I'd Transmute into a SF and slap it on a Spire Golem for infinite turning sideways. It's also quite good on anything unblockable.

After sideboard they fetch Jace's Erasure, Counterspell, Essence Scatter, Spectral Flight, Confound, Looter Il-Kor, and Into the Roil. That's such a huge toolbox.

[DarthStabber]

I'm considering testing 1 or 2 [card]dismiss[card]. Exclude is fantastic, it might be just good enough to have 2 more for an extra mana (and with the ability to hit anything).

Also, I like oona's grace and all, but I would prefer looter il-kor for the same job. He's getting damage through no matter how gunked up the board is, he can pitch anything, not just land, and he costs nothing beyond the initial 2 mana.

[Alex]

Yep, I feel exactly the same way about Looter Il-Kor vs. Oona's Grace. I've made the switch.

[DarthStabber]

To be fair every blue casual deck i've built since the release of timespiral has started 4x il-kor, so I was a little worried it might have been a case of of pet card syndrome.

[Alex]

The effect is really good, and in a list like mine (where you can slap on a Spectral Flight for an actual clock) it's better. I'm not going to argue that it would be better in every list, because I think James and I took the deck in entirely different directions, but in the 2mans I played this morning with them I was pretty impressed.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I don't like it, but I have a certain way of playing and it doesn't appeal to me for reasons related to that. I don't think Looter is on par with Oona's Grace for a few reasons; but I won't argue with success.

I tried Rewind at 4 mana and I quickly found that 4 mana counters are truly awful. The mana edge is the best part of counterspells and spending 4 mana is just rubbish. I was shocked at how bad Rewind was and that even doubles your mana! Basically keeping up two mana is way easier than 4. Exclude is only good because it's so well positioned, but it does often get cut on the draw against really aggro decks for costing too much.

I can't stress how important cheapness is; no deck has a chance in hell going long once you've stabalized so all that matters is early interactivity.

When I get back from my holiday ill try this:

[deck]Pauper MUC Nouveau[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of
Secrets
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Counterspell
1 Deprive
1 Essence Scatter
4 Exclude
2 Logic Knot
2 Oona's Grace
4 Repeal
4 Think Twice

Sorceries
4 Preordain
4 Serum Visions

Lands
20 Island
2 Quicksand

Sideboard
x Coast Watcher
x Dispel
4 Hydroblast
4 Piracy Charm
x Sea Gate Oracle
x Serrated Arrows
[/deck]

If this deck doesnt test at 80%+ vs. MBC then it's an auto-scrap though.

[zemanjaski]

I think the counter suite is much better now at least.

[hamfactorial]

Yeah I don't like it, but I have a certain way of playing and it doesn't appeal to me for reasons related to that. I don't think Looter is on par with Oona's Grace for a few reasons; but I won't argue with success.

I tried Rewind at 4 mana and I quickly found that 4 mana counters are truly awful. The mana edge is the best part of counterspells and spending 4 mana is just rubbish. I was shocked at how bad Rewind was and that even doubles your mana! Basically keeping up two mana is way easier than 4. Exclude is only good because it's so well positioned, but it does often get cut on the draw against really aggro decks for costing too much.

I can't stress how important cheapness is; no deck has a chance in hell going long once you've stabalized so all
that matters is early interactivity.

When I get back from my holiday ill try this:

[deck]Pauper MUC Nouveau[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Counterspell
1 Deprive
1 Essence Scatter
4 Exclude
2 Logic Knot
2 Oona's Grace
4 Repeal
4 Think Twice

Sorceries
4 Preordain
4 Serum Visions

Lands
20 Island
2 Quicksand

Sideboard
x Coast Watcher
x Dispel
4 Hydroblast
4 Piracy Charm
x Sea Gate Oracle
x Serrated Arrows
[/deck]

If this deck doesnt test at 80%+ vs. MBC then it's an auto-scrap though.

I tested this before I left for holiday and went 3-0 vs MBC, Hexproof and the mirror.

I liked Logic Knot more than I thought I would. Fewer Deprive was better, as the tempo loss wasn't screwing me vs. aggro.

[zemanjaski]

Thanks.

I like Deprive, but it's so bad early that you often are damned if you do counter, damned if you don't.

How was Serum Visions?

[hamfactorial]

Serum Visions was nice for digging to my Spire Golems. I appreciate that it's cheap, because the first and third turns are often spent setting up draws.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah that's what I wanted to hear.

[zemanjaski]

More turn 1 plays is good too.

[zemanjaski]

Maybe this?

[deck]Pauper MUC[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Spire Golem

Instants
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Counterspell
2 Deprive
4 Exclude
4 Miscalculation
2 Oona's Grace
4 Repeal

Sorceries
4 Preordain

Lands
19 Island
3 Quicksand

Sideboard
2 Coast Watcher
2 Curfew
4 Hydroblast
4 Piracy Charm
3 Serrated Arrows
[/deck]

So the big change is trying Miscalculation with Accumulated Knowledge. Miscalculation fills the 1U counter slot that is SO important in this deck; you need an alternative to Deprive that won't set you back, but is also universal (Essence Scatter sometimes sucks). Of the options, Miscalculation is appealing because it's solid early; but if you get behind on board you can cycle it to dig for something better, still plays well in
counter-wars etc.

AK is experimental. I don't think it's as good as Think Twice, but ill give it a try. It's a little better vs. aggro; worse vs. MBC and other MUC decks.

[DarthStabber]

I bring up miscalculation all the time and no one ever believes it. Rune snag is not bad either, it can stay relevant for quite a while.

[zemanjaski]

"Told you so" is very valuable

[DarthStabber]

I prefer the term Vindication.

[Jack]

Got bored last night; played this for a few hours. Pauper really is a blue player's paradise. And Serrated Arrows is fucking absurd. I'm still on a very outdated list for Cockatrice (4x Deprive, 2x SGO main). Are we calling the second-to-last version that zem posted the current "stock" list?
I'm pretty sure almost nothing changes because of BNG.
On sideboarding: there are definitely match-ups where we have much more to bring in than we can easily take out. Do we just take out 1-2 of cards that really just smooth out our game (Think Twice, Serum Visions, 1 Oona's Grace), or do we keep all of them and not bring in as much? I'd like to think that, in match-ups that aren't awful, we sideboard minimally and plan on winning because we already have a very good game 1 plan. This mainly comes up when playing against red aggro variants, where Serrated Arrows and Hydroblasts are the obvious choices, but
Piracy Charm doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

[DarthStabber]

Got bored last night; played this for a few hours. Pauper really is a blue player's paradise. And Serrated Arrows is fucking absurd. I'm still on a very outdated list for Cockatrice (4x Deprive, 2x SGO main). Are we calling the second-to-last version that zem posted the current "stock" list?
I'm pretty sure almost nothing changes because of BNG.
On sideboarding: there are definitely match-ups where we have much more to bring in than we can easily take out. Do we just take out 1-2 of cards that really just smooth out our game (Think Twice, Serum Visions, 1 Oona's Grace), or do we keep all of them and not bring in as much? I'd like to think that, in match-ups that aren't awful, we sideboard minimally and plan on winning because we already
have a very good game 1 plan. This mainly comes up when playing against red aggro variants, where Serrated Arrows and Hydroblasts are the obvious choices, but Piracy Charm doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

Honestly when I'm playing burn, MUC and Delver are the only decks I'm really worried about post board. MUC/delver and Burn are IMHO the best placed decks in the format, and MUC is Burn's scariest matchup.

[magicdownunder]

Z are you gonna start grinding Pauper PE's for all the EV? I'm thinking about giving it a shot with your list once the Easter holidays start up.

[Jack]

Bump, because this is still far and away the best deck in the format.