Ragnarok Mafia (Scum Win) Tattered Banners and Bloody Flags

[rcwraspy]

You forgot kaze on your spectrum, rcw

Kaze is the only one I'm leaning town on. That spectrum was Strong Scum to Weak Scum. I didn't forget him, he just doesn't fit on it.

Quit trying to be my friend, creep.

K. Let's all lynch Kaze

[imopen2]

We lynch gr, and tell Rezmo if he doesn't bring someone back, he is deader than dead Tommorow. This is my proposed course of action

What is your rationale for lynching GR exactly?

[Kazekirimaru]

rcwraspyxNoose sounds like a good OTP, as well.

Never mind, I'm not up for an rcw lynch today.

I just remembered a role-madness game from MafiaScum where the mod put in one single VT in the setup and they ended up being mislynch bait. Bleh.

[( G_R )]

We lynch gr, and tell Rezmo if he doesn't bring someone back, he is deader than dead Tommorow. This is my proposed course of action

Your proposed course of action lynches another townie. I like the rezombad's part, but the question Kaze made about N1 is a good one. If I had that ability I would use it N1 least I be mislynched/NK'd before I got the chance.

[imopen2]

We lynch gr, and tell Rezmo if he doesn't bring someone back, he is deader than dead Tommorow. This is my proposed course of action

Your proposed course of action lynches another townie. I like the rezombad's part, but the question Kaze made about N1 is a good one. If I had that ability I would use it N1 least I be mislynched/NK'd before I got the chance.

*cough*

[( G_R )]

We lynch gr, and tell Rezmo if he doesn't bring someone back, he is deader than dead Tommorow. This is my proposed course of action

Your proposed course of action lynches another townie. I like the rezombad's part, but the question Kaze made about N1 is a good one. If I had that ability I would use it N1 least I be mislynched/NK'd before I got the chance.

*cough*

As of right now I'd happily see G_R or rezombad lynched. Unless rezombad has a fantastic fucking reason for not phoenix down-ing someone Night one.

[imopen2]

I am Freyja, Afterlife Overseer.

I am town.

Once during the game at night, I can target a dead player and return them to life. If they had a limited use ability that had already been used, they can use it again.



popcorn to imopen.

Why didn't you bring Z or ham back night 1? Confirmed town is ++good and unless you are scum you had no reason to believe you would survive to night 2.

[imopen2]

[Kazekirimaru]

yes, imopen, we all know you asked the question first. good for you

[InflatablePie]

Make that no votes thing three hours from now instead. I may need to walk a few miles to the post office when I get home and yell about a misplaced package.

I'm also thinking GR is the safest lynch and I'll explain in depth asap.

[imopen2]

yes, imopen, we all know you asked the question first. good for you

That's what the " " was for. G_R had to draw it out an make me look like a braggart (which I am)

[Kazekirimaru]

YOU'RE SO COOL IMOPEN

[( G_R )]

Make that no votes thing three hours from now instead. I may need to walk a few miles to the post office when I get home and yell about a misplaced package.

I'm also thinking GR is the safest lynch and I'll explain in depth asap.

[imopen2]

YOU'RE SO COOL IMOPEN

[rezombad]

Correction - at least 2 vanilla. I don't know that Zemanjaski ever claimed a role, he just confirmed the neighborhood before he couldn't post any longer.

We also don't know that everybody's claims are legitimate, of course. Some will obviously be lies because if there weren't scum left in the game it'd be over.

They were neighbors. You are claiming to have no abilities, which I don't believe.

Are we under the United States Constitution jurisdiction here? Can I plead the Fifth? No? OK.

Once again in a game of mafia, and without even knowing it, I am responsible for the death
of townie Stardust. I just read how Stardust asked the vig to target him at night and I guess Yanni simply chose to comply.

I am Nidhogg, Eater Beneath the Tree, town, and I (Yanni) targeted Stardust with an ability that turned any other ability targeting him into a deadly shot.

This whole post is scummy; not wanting to answer, and a non-town ability.

Why didn't you bring Z or ham back night 1? Confirmed town is ++good and unless you are scum you had no reason to believe you would survive to night 2.

Because I left out the part about them only being alive for one day and one night, making my ability much more useful for endgame situations. +town points for reaction. I also didn't think z or ham would be able to clear tubehunter as town in their neighbor chat.

---
So at this point, I've got G_R and
rcwraspy as 100% scum. I can't get a good read on Tube, everytime I see something that looks towny, I see something else that makes me think I'm wrong. Pie also might be scum, his role isn't particularly town aligned and it would be easy for him to fake his other joat abilities.

Time to look at claims:

Claims

---

My time to claim:

I am Odin, father of the gods (town obv.), neighbor to Hamfactorial and Zemanjaski (Huginn and Muninn respectively) Too bad I don't have the knowlege of their alignments. Thankfully what I do have, however, is a one shot vig that i can point at one of my neighbors.... So Z... Wanna die?

Alright, back home. Skimmed the thread at work so I'm kinda caught up. @rezzy(?): I gave my read on imopen. Frustrated-ish townie.

Now for confirming Tube. Well, not confirming him as town but pretty damn close.

I'm Loki the trickster god. I honestly don't know much about the lore for this game, but I've seen Dogma. Loki's a dickhole. I'm guessing he's a usually-evil dickhole. This helps explain why I was a bit hesitant to lynch based off flavor alone btw; obviously with a competent mod there's not a way to flavor-break the game.

My role is... weird. I'm basically a Jack-of-all-Trades. I get three one-shot abilities: a track, a watch, and an cop-scan. However, I don't get any results. One currently living player is
chosen randomly each night (and I asked Iso to confirm in case, they can be town or scum) to receive them for me. In this case, I guess Tube received my results.

This leads me to believe that unless we have some other investigation role, scum may not have a roleblocker. My role kind of nerfs itself: the less townies alive the better chance that scum intercept one of my results (which they can either claim for townpoints or just not claim it if it's incriminating) plus there's a chance a player can be chosen and NK'd. It's pretty shitty after the first night. Good news is, it's also good if I'm NKed, because if scum don't have a roleblocker, my results still go through and I just have to hope they get sent to town.

I targeted Starbuck with my track last night. In hindsight, the track was probably a worse choice than the cop-scan. I didn't think that through. I remember Star saying her role was crazy, and wasn't sure if she was
gambiting or actually had a cool role. I thought she was town but there were a lot of people that didn't seem to agree with me, so I could either confirm her or know she was just a vanilla basically (provided, of course, scum didn't receive my results). And on the off-chance I was wrong and I tracked her to the kill, win-win. High-risk high-reward, but I also knew that if no one claimed they got a random tracker result than the result went to scum. Again, in hindsight I should have just used the cop scan but I guess it won't hurt to have going forward.

Which leads me to why Tube is almost-confirmed town: scum wouldn't have even bothered bringing up the result. Scum would have kept their mouth shut, but Tube actually claimed. I mean, he could be scum doing it for townpoints, but I don't think that's the case here.

So, the downside to my role kinda sucks, especially when this Night phase is gonna be skipped. If Lord_M flips scum or we lynch scum tomorrow, we're at...
4:2 going into night assuming 3-scum? So there's a 60% chance the results get sent to town... I'm too tired to do math.

I am Freyja, Afterlife Overseer.

I am town.

Once during the game at night, I can target a dead player and return them to life. If they had a limited use ability that had already been used, they can use it again.

I am Sleipnir, Odin's Steed. Town. Vanilla, alas. So many cool roles to be had.

I am Yggdrasil, Tree of Life.

I am town.

nOnce per Night, I may target a player. They will be protected from the first kill that targets them that Night.

I am Nidhogg, Eater Beneath the Tree, town, and I (Yanni) targeted Stardust with an ability that turned any other ability targeting him into a deadly shot.

I'm Fenrir, Unleashed Wolf of the Ván.

I am town.

Once per game, at Night, I may choose to stay awake. That Night, if a player targets me, they will die. The kill cannot be stopped, blocked, or protected against.

I have not used my shot yet.

Does anyone want to play guess the pattern with me?
Everyone that formatted their
claim this way is conf-town to me.

-----

I'm okay voting g_r or rcwraspy today.

[( G_R )]

¿Not wanting to answer? (use of ¿ intended)

I answered. The "plead the 5th" joke was a comment about the fact that I was about to claim being the one behind Stardust's death, which yesterDay meant LMD's mislynch when he claimed to be a dragon. Which is why I called for an unvote (even though I hadn't read much of the game) when Kaze hinted at the day not being really over.

And since when is vigilante (and a hindered vigilante, depending on other people targeting my target) non-town?

And you're basing your reads on formatting when we don't have room for errors?

[rezombad]

¿Not wanting to answer? (use of ¿ intended)

I answered. The "plead the 5th" joke was a comment about the fact that I was about to claim being the one behind Stardust's death, which yesterDay meant LMD's mislynch when he claimed to be a dragon. Which is why I called for an unvote (even though I hadn't read much of the game) when Kaze hinted at the day not being really over.

And since when is vigilante (and a hindered vigilante, depending on other people targeting my target) non-town?

And you're basing your reads on formatting when we don't have room for errors?

It's funny that my town reads all have well formatted claims. Not basing it entirely on formatting, but it does back it up.

Your vig isn't a vig. It causes someone
to get killed for being targeted. It turns something that would help the town into something that harms the town. So someone who would be docced, copped, watched or copied is instead killed.
The scum motivation behind your role is a lot more prevalent than town, examples:
town-gr: I think tube is scum so I'm going to target him with my ability and hope someone else also targets him.
scum-gr: i think tube is likely to be protected by the doc tonight so im going to target him with my ability.

[( G_R )]

I don't know what kind of abilities the scum team has. It could be relevant. Or not. You're mod-gaming, and willing to lynch based on that.

[Kazekirimaru]

My scumreads are fighting each other. The madness!

Oh wait, bussing is a thing.

[Kazekirimaru]

I keep nodding along in agreement with rezombad until I remember that rezombad led the charge on LMD yesterday and didn't exactly come out of that smelling like roses in my opinion.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm willing to vote once pie checks in again.

[TubeHunter]

Rezmo, kaze,
And Imopen. Claims look very samey. Strange...


Whatever, when pie comes I'm then I'm ready to take out gr

[( G_R )]

lol

You identify three people with "strangely samey" claims and you're still ready to take me out?

Can anyone tell me what's different about rezombad's claim when compared to Kaze's and imopen's? Or YOUR own PM for that matter?

[( G_R )]

Scum are afraid of the vig.

[TubeHunter]

I frankly don't give a shit. You are getting lynched, because you are scum. Simple as that.

[rezombad]

I keep nodding along in agreement with rezombad until I remember that rezombad led the charge on LMD yesterday and didn't exactly come out of that smelling like roses in my opinion.

My reasoning was sound. I had other reasons besides flavor that everyone ignores, low hanhing fruit and all that.
You voted him too

[( G_R )]

I frankly don't give a shit. You are getting lynched, because you are scum. Simple as that.

You seem so sure, yet your reasons are weak.

[InflatablePie]

So USPS might have lost my copy of Tales of Xillia that was supposed to arrive Tuesday. I'm in a great fucking mood today.


Player Thoughts:

InflatablePie - town duh

TubeHunter - going just off of claim? could definitely be scum given the weirdness of his dayvig ability. but given that he claimed my track on Stardust + derphammered Lord_M, I think he's town. Scum have no motivation to claim my results, and they'd be more careful than to draw all the attention with that hammer.

Now, in order of claim...

Rezzy - the ressurector. Hah. So, I kind of don't buy the claim, honestly. That seems like a really weird power, and I would definitely use it Night 1 rather than wait till LYLO. However, I don't feel good about lynching him. If we assume there's two other scum, and we can lynch one of them today, we can confirm rezzy and pretty much win with a ressurected townie, just in case I'
m wrong and he's telling the truth. Scum wouldn't have a ressurection role, that'd be broken/dumb. Like I said earlier, I don't think scum have a roleblocker, although I'm less sure now with the killing roles and doc claim. Do I think he's scum? Yes. Do I want to lynch him? No. Will I vote him today if I have to? Of course. I just don't think it's optimal play, because we only need to lynch one scum today to not-lose, and if rezzy is town, we can prove it. So if we remove me (or yourselves from y'alls POV) and Tube (or obvtown read of your choice) and rezzy, there's only 4 players left and 2-3 of them have to be scum. I still like the odds.

rcw - vanilla. I dunno. If he's town, he's vanilla with ham and I'm assuming Z. This also means that scum are faking PRs. Or he's scum that's just claiming vanilla. I'm actually leading towards town based on the fact that it's incredibly unlikely we have so many town powers and there have to be more than a few vanilla, but
people have used the phrase 'Iso game' and I'm not sure how chaotic the setup can be.

imopen - Dr. Tree. Doc is a safe claim if he's scum. I had him reading as town, though. I want to say it's downgraded to a very weak townread given the circumstances.

GR - vig-thing. I don't buy it. This screams fakeclaim since both me and Lord_M targeted Stardust, so it's easy to say he has a vigshot that only works when someone else targets them. It also negates a doc protect, which is making me either think he's scum (and is the equivalent of a Roleblocker to get around the doc) or possibly a SK (who usually claim vig or vig-esque roles).

Kaze - one-shot self-PGO. I can't decide if this is town or scum, honestly. It could be scum that's trying not to get targeted tonight (or actually has the role, which I can see being anti-town), or scum have crazy powers in addition to the NK and this is a check to that. I'm leaning scum only by PoE really.

So Tube and I are town. Out of the five left, I'd rank
them in order:

rcw (based off claim)/imopen (based off read)
Kaze (possibly scum, by PoE)
rezzy (prob scum not optimal lynch)
GR (scum or SK)

GR I think is the most optimal lynch. He's either scum, or an SK, the latter of which is way worse, so it'd better to hedge our bets and lynch him in case it is 4:2:1 right now.

I'm not sure what all the rush is to lynch GR, though. We have time to discuss. I mean, that said, he's flailing a bit and my read isn't changing, but still.

[( G_R )]

I flail all the time. I'm latino.

[Kazekirimaru]

I flail all the time. I'm latino.

Let's reduce ourselves to jokes while we're in the spotlight, shall we?

[( G_R )]

And Tube still brought up that I was "reluctant" to claim.

IDK. People bring up things about how you're a "safe lynch" and how your "100% scum", you have to address their points. If that's flailing, IDK. All I know is that if I get lynched you'll see my name in blue.

The thing is, town, that there is no such a thing as a "safe lynch" right now. "He might be SK" also means "not sure that he's scum" and that means it's not actually a safe lynch. We still need to lynch scum toDay. And TubeHunter is not confirmed, based on his two neighbors flipping town.

About the claims:

imopen's checks out precisely because there is another way to die different from NK.
rezombad's resurrection thing smells like crap, because nothing happened N1.
IP's
also sounds a bit convoluted to be real.
Kaze's could go either way, but based on behavior I believe him
rcwraspy can also go either way, I have seen townie things in his posts, though, and there was another vanilla, I tend to believe this one
TubeHunter's made sense with a 50/50 chance of hitting scum. It also makes sense as a useless ability. And as a scum ability/lie. It's his behavior I don't like.


Pedit: don't tell me what to do.

[rezombad]

Do you think everyone besides imopen is lying about their claim?
Because thats what your post says to me.

[Kazekirimaru]

IP's also sounds a bit convoluted to be real.

There's a logical fallacy associated with this line of thinking. I forget what it's called, but it has a whole page on MafiaScum Wiki devoted to it iirc.

(i.e. don't go that route.)

[rezombad]

So USPS might have lost my copy of Tales of Xillia that was supposed to arrive Tuesday. I'm in a great fucking mood today.


Player Thoughts:

InflatablePie - town duh

TubeHunter - going just off of claim? could definitely be scum given the weirdness of his dayvig ability. but given that he claimed my track on Stardust + derphammered Lord_M, I think he's town. Scum have no motivation to claim my results, and they'd be more careful than to draw all the attention with that hammer.

Now, in order of claim...

Rezzy - the ressurector. Hah. So, I kind of don't buy the claim, honestly. That seems like a really weird power, and I would definitely use it Night 1 rather than wait till LYLO. However, I don't feel good about lynching him. If we assume
there's two other scum, and we can lynch one of them today, we can confirm rezzy and pretty much win with a ressurected townie, just in case I'm wrong and he's telling the truth. Scum wouldn't have a ressurection role, that'd be broken/dumb. Like I said earlier, I don't think scum have a roleblocker, although I'm less sure now with the killing roles and doc claim. Do I think he's scum? Yes. Do I want to lynch him? No. Will I vote him today if I have to? Of course. I just don't think it's optimal play, because we only need to lynch one scum today to not-lose, and if rezzy is town, we can prove it. So if we remove me (or yourselves from y'alls POV) and Tube (or obvtown read of your choice) and rezzy, there's only 4 players left and 2-3 of them have to be scum. I still like the odds.

rcw - vanilla. I dunno. If he's town, he's vanilla with ham and I'm assuming Z. This also means that scum are faking PRs. Or he's scum that's just claiming
vanilla. I'm actually leading towards town based on the fact that it's incredibly unlikely we have so many town powers and there have to be more than a few vanilla, but people have used the phrase 'Iso game' and I'm not sure how chaotic the setup can be.

imopen - Dr. Tree. Doc is a safe claim if he's scum. I had him reading as town, though. I want to say it's downgraded to a very weak townread given the circumstances.

GR - vig-thing. I don't buy it. This screams fakeclaim since both me and Lord_M targeted Stardust, so it's easy to say he has a vigshot that only works when someone else targets them. It also negates a doc protect, which is making me either think he's scum (and is the equivalent of a Roleblocker to get around the doc) or possibly a SK (who usually claim vig or vig-esque roles).

Kaze - one-shot self-PGO. I can't decide if this is town or scum, honestly. It could be scum that's trying not to get targeted tonight (or actually has the role, which I can see being anti-town), or
scum have crazy powers in addition to the NK and this is a check to that. I'm leaning scum only by PoE really.

So Tube and I are town. Out of the five left, I'd rank them in order:

rcw (based off claim)/imopen (based off read)
Kaze (possibly scum, by PoE)
rezzy (prob scum not optimal lynch)
GR (scum or SK)

GR I think is the most optimal lynch. He's either scum, or an SK, the latter of which is way worse, so it'd better to hedge our bets and lynch him in case it is 4:2:1 right now.

I'm not sure what all the rush is to lynch GR, though. We have time to discuss. I mean, that said, he's flailing a bit and my read isn't changing, but still.

How is tubehunter hammering lmd a town play?
Apocalypse mafia on MTGS just finished where I was a scum dayvig (subbed out).

In what situation would you have to vote for me?

You think that the one person claiming to have no abilities at all is town?

How is an un-counterclaimed
doc a scummy thing? I don't get it.

You don't believe my claim, you don't believe g_r's claim, you don't believe kaze's claim, you don't believe imopen's claim, but you believe rcw's vanilla claim, correct?

[( G_R )]

Do you think everyone besides imopen is lying about their claim?
Because thats what your post says to me.

I believe his claim "the most" because of my role. I also believe Kaze, and I could buy rcw's. There are certainly people lying, half of the list for sure, and the ones at the bottom for me are TH (for alignment), IP (because weird) and yours. In that order.

Have you answered the N1 question yet? Please do.

[rezombad]

Do you think everyone besides imopen is lying about their claim?
Because thats what your post says to me.

I believe his claim "the most" because of my role. I also believe Kaze, and I could buy rcw's. There are certainly people lying, half of the list for sure, and the ones at the bottom for me are TH (for alignment), IP (because weird) and yours. In that order.

Have you answered the N1 question yet? Please do.

Post 395.
How could you possibly respond to me calling you 100% scum without reading the post where I called you 100% scum?

People bring up things about how you're a "safe lynch" and how your "100% scum", you have to address their points. If that's flailing, IDK.

[InflatablePie]

How is tubehunter hammering lmd a town play?
Apocalypse mafia on MTGS just finished where I was a scum dayvig (subbed out).

In what situation would you have to vote for me?

You think that the one person claiming to have no abilities at all is town?

How is an un-counterclaimed doc a scummy thing? I don't get it.

You don't believe my claim, you don't believe g_r's claim, you don't believe kaze's claim, you don't believe imopen's claim, but you believe rcw's vanilla claim, correct?

- Because scum wouldn't be caught hammering the way he did. They would know they were hammering. Scum pay lots of attention to what they post and how they vote, they wouldn't go "vote... oops I hammered" because
that's too risky. Coupled with the fact that he claimed my track, he's town. There's no scum motivation there.

- LYLO tomorrow after we get rid of scum/SK today and test your roleclaim. Or if for some reason GR was unlynchable. I'm pretty sure you're scum, it's just a matter of lynching optimally. Example, I finished a game on MS semi-recently where I was a roleblocker and was fairly certain I knew who scum+traitor were but we couldn't lynch the "traitor" (claimed Bodyguard) in case we were wrong, so we had to lynch someone else first. Turns out we were wrong and he was a BG but still.

- Yes, because of the significant lack of vanillas this game. Z + ham and let's say Suga was vanilla, makes 3. Plus rcw makes 4. Assume three scum/anti-town. 5 PRs, 4 vanilla, 3 scum. Sounds pretty balanced, when one has crazy abilities (Stardust) and one can get others abilities (Lord-M). 6 PRs, meanwhile, seems a bit strong, even with all the roles that cause death. Especially
if your claim is true, because that's essentially 7 PRs. And Lord_M's role would be really strong if there was that many PRs, whereas it's more balanced when there's more vanillas.

- There's not always a doc in every setup. I can see this setup not having a doc and just being kill-crazy (scumkill, daykill, SK/extra scumkill...). I'm also remembering Lord_M's role, because gaining a one-shot version of either the doc or even your claimed ability seems very strong. That's another reason I'm not believing your claim, btw, but in case I'm wrong we should try and lynch one of your buddies to be safe.

- I don't believe your claim or GR's. imopen I'm not completely sure about and can see going either way, but I'm leaning town due to my previous read (ignoring the roleclaim). Kaze can also go either way, but he's scum by PoE. If I'm wrong about you, which I believe we'll find out tomorrow provided we lynch GR, it's GR/Kaze/one of imopen and
rcw, and I'll think things over then. It's probably imopen in that case. I can't see having a resurrection and doc protect in a setup where a PR can copy those abilities. I really don't think rcw is scum given the claimed roles.

re: "Pie also might be scum, his role isn't particularly town aligned and it would be easy for him to fake his other joat abilities."
Please explain. Both parts.

[InflatablePie]

wait a second...

I am Nidhogg, Eater Beneath the Tree, town, and I (Yanni) targeted Stardust with an ability that turned any other ability targeting him into a deadly shot.

Turns the ability into a shot, yeah?

Stardust - Baldur, Ragnarok's Harbinger, killed by the Eater Beneath the Tree Night 1

Lynching off of nameclaims is bad. Lynching based off scene flavor, also bad. Lynching based off of a mod-given reason for death? That seems fine to me.

[rezombad]

re: "Pie also might be scum, his role isn't particularly town aligned and it would be easy for him to fake his other joat abilities."
Please explain. Both parts.

It doesn't help town for anyone to be able to get your results. Not necessarily scummy.
We also haven't had any other claimed informational roles so I guess it could go either way
In boondocks mafia (on this site) Iso was a mafia JOAT. But there was a town JOAT to balance.
I'm just exploring the possibility because I havn't figured out who the third scum is.

[rezombad]

@pie: How do you reconcile your town read on rcwraspy who thinks tube is the biggest scum and kaze is the most town?