Primer: R/w/x Aggro

[LaZerBurn]

I've been testing MDU's latest Boros Legion list on MTGO. The deck is very solid and fun to play, so much fun that I am going to acquire a copy of Legion's Initiative I went 9-2 though 1 of these was very definitely my own fault.

BR Aggo 1-2 - I punted this, no excuses. I was on 4, he's on 8, 2 mana up, 1 card in hand. The right play is to attack for 2 and hold up 2 blockers for the 2 2/1's he has in play. I feel lucky and decide to go all in. I lose to a Lightning Strike. While this was entirely my own fault I find BR aggro the hardest of the Aggro decks to face. Thoughts anyone?

Mono B 1-2 - This guy was supernatural with Thoughtseize and Mono B is a much harder match when they run 4 Pack Rats but I actually lose to a combination of poor hands and generally poor play

Mono B 2-1 - I settle down, play properly and win the rematch

Mono B 2-0 - Rinse and repeat. Diff opponent though.

Boros Devo Hybrid (ran 1 drops, instant removal, Fanatic, BTE, Chains) 2-0 General DTR strategy of going control is the key to all the Red match ups, certainly worked here.

Bad Esper 2-0 - Esper is still very favourable even with 4 Chains MD.

Esper 2-1 - ditto.

UW Control 2-1 - this is a really hard match up, thank fuck everyone plays Esper. Top decked like a God to burn him, recur my Phoenix and steal a win

GB 2-0 - nothing to say really, curved out well and smashed him both games.

RDW (1 drops, BTE, FFS, GHC, Phoenix) 2-1 G1 he rushes me, G2 he goes T1 FDS into T2 FDS, FDS. I Jet 1, Strike 1 and Mortars another and he dies to removal G3 was touch n go; I stabilized on 8 life, he's on 20. I start beating with Dragon and he AoT's it! I hold up burn in case it happens again and ride the Dragon home

GWU Nightmare Deck 2-1 This was scary! I win G1 on curve and see Mystic, Voice and Wurm. G2 he casts Master Of Waves and Lavinia Of The Tenth and promptly crushes me.

G3 was epic! It went something like this. He casts Voice, I Chain it. He casts Master, I Chain it. He casts another, more Chains. He then casts a 3rd and starts to slowly pick away at my life, while casting a Caryatid and an Elf. I cast Assemble and he then casts Scion Of Vitu-Ghazi followed by Lavinia. I skillfully draw my last Chains for Lavinia, happily block his Master with my Vault, overload Mortars and finally win with Assemble tokens

[magicdownunder]

If you want Chandra back, you can cut 1x Lands, 1x Assemble and 1x Dragon for 3x Chandra - she is WELL protected in this variant with all the removal you'll be sprouting out.

Keep in mind guys I did cut her (reluctantly) for a reason, on MODO Rx based control and Midrange is more rampant with 3x Anger of the Gods and 4x Chains seeing play everywhere - my poor Phoenix aren't even hitting the yard as often anymore.

@LazenBurn thanks for helping me test and good results, I havn't really tested LI yet either the third Charm maybe better - time will tell.

[dpaine88]

It's funny this is where we are at.

The deck is really starting to look like my October 19th Top16 TCG 5k deck- heavily inspired by Adrian Sullivan.

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Creatures [24]
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Boros Charm
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
Spells [9]
12 Mountain
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
Lands [25]
SIDEBOARD
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Charm
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Frostburn Weird
1 Last Breath
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Shock
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1166488


I feel really comfortable with this kinda deck n think I might bring it to a PTQ this weekend.

nObviously the meta has changed and I def want 4x Chained.

If the meta is Mono Blue, Black, Red, Green, then I might stick with Boros Reckoner over Ash Zealot as hes better vs all of them but Black basically.

Scratch that, I'm a moron. Running both Ash Zealot and Reckoner derr...

Thinking cut 4x Ash Zealot for 3x Chained and 1 more Boros Charm.

[Lightning_Dolt]

OK, so I've had some time to think about this. While I obviously enjoy the Big MF Dragons lists, do we really think this is where we want to be?

VS Mono Black: Dragons are not good. There, I said it. In Pyro Boros I've been siding the dragons out. File under really bad.

VS Mono Blue: They are good if you're ahead, not so great if you are behind. File this one under OK.

VS Esper: If they've exhausted their black removal and aren't able to rev into any, it's good. File this under OK.

VS U/W: In the past, great because they have very few ways to interact. Now they are packing Celestial Flare etc. File under good.

VS G/R: They are bad. Their dragons come out faster, and they have arbor collosus. File under bad.

VS WW / RDW: They are generally too slow. VS WW they are nice if you can control the board until you have 5 mana. File under bad.


If we are going with the BMFD list, I have to ask the
question, why not play devotion red with Nykthos? They power out their dragons faster. When I was playing this style exclusively, I was starting to think that Nykthos was the next step, but I'm not sure it's correct.

I am not a fan of the 1 of Assemble in the main. I understand your reasoning behind cutting Chandra, but I think a 1 of Chandra would be better than a 1 of Assemble there.

I was also thinking about the board. I think Purphoros might make sense as part of the token package.

Basically:

1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Legion's Initiative
2x Assemble the Legion

I have seen dedicated Purphoros / Assemble the legion decks just destroy other players, including myself. Purphoros's damage to the dome + mass pump is nasty. I wonder if that is a direction worth exploring? It's basically a R/W control list.

[magicdownunder]

Purphoros / Assemble the legion list is really good (also faced it) and is definitely worth exploring, I won't take part in building the list though since I hate playing any form of control (not my style, I don't enjoy it).

Devo vs Non-Devo

Devo gives you non-consistence explosive hands, at the loss of 1-drops and burns
Non-Devo gives you burn and consistency at the lost of explosiveness.

As a grinder I prefer consistency but that is just me.

Dragon Debate

I'll mostly agree except we're running a crap ton of removal now to compensate for its weakness, so its better then it looks

[LP, of the Fires]

I find dragons better vs. black then most people. I usually get a flame Javelin worth of value out of stormbreath whenever I play it. I always leave 2 dragons in my deck on the play, regardless of what red deck I'm playing.

As for siding in purphoros, the only deck Big P is really good against if you're going the non-devoted route is Mono-Black and maybe the UW/x decks. If you're comfortable playing a slower game, I'd say it's fine.

[dpaine88]

@MDU-

I still think the Devo Lists are pretty consistent, running all the 2 and 3 drops. I think what it loses is potential speed rather than consitency.

Also, how does running the removal make the dragon better ?

[magicdownunder]

@MDU-

I still think the Devo Lists are pretty consistent, running all the 2 and 3 drops. I think what it loses is potential speed rather than consitency.

Also, how does running the removal make the dragon better ?

Devo decks can have really slow plays one moment and instant win god hands the other, I think that is a sign on inconsistency

With more removal you have a higher chance of killing problem cards like Tide Binder, Dragons and Giants - more removal also stops the devo decks from devo'ing out which lets you get ahead.

[dpaine88]

Ok, fair enough def some good points there.

Man, Pyro Dragons and Big Boros are similar as fuck.

Like cant be more than 5 cards diff in the main. Basically 2 lands and 2 Dragons for 2 YP and 2 Chandra essentially.

With all the 2 mana removal and this card looking to be well positioned, would Reckoner be better than Ash Zealot?


ALso MDU, thanks for your videos, they have bene very helpful. I am subbed and try to like/comment all your videos =)

[magicdownunder]

I really thank you guys for subing, liking and commenting (esp. LaZerburn) it give me more traffic hence more extra money to support my hobby.

Running Reckoner MD is looking better and better to me as well (just board him out vs Blue and Black), I just don't know what to cut for him though - maybe 3 Ash, 2 Satyr and 3 Reckoner? Needs MOAR TESTING!!.

p.s. Really liking Legion's Initiative right now, I'm still going to keep Assemble the Legion MD because it crushes so many decks when it resolves (since barely anyone packs answers).

[dpaine88]

I did just want to point out that the Devo decks did double top8 one of the GP's which are very very long and I think going something like 13-2-1 implies your deck must have some consistency.

Sideboarding Reckoner OUT against mono blue seems a little crazy over just that one card but hey, if it works I aint gonna argue with it.

I agree Reckoner would be either over Zealot or Satyr. I was running both Zealot and Reckoner in the list I posted from the 5k which would work REALLY well with Fanatic of Mogis in the sideboard for certain matchups like blue or green.

The nice thing about the 25 land setup is that it allows you 4 Mutvault but still has 21 red for Reckoner, really the best of both worlds.

[dpaine88]

Also, maybe just how now we have Reckoner in the board, and Satyr in the maindeck. Seems like they could swap positions. If > 50% of decks , Reckoner is better, then he should be MD and Satyr in Sb.

Wouldn't mind having a transformational sideboard as that has worked for me in the past and worked really well at SCG. I ran 4 Reckoner, 4 Fanatic in the sideboard in a fast mono red list and transformed into Devotion in game 2/3 if the matchup dictacted.

For this deck, 4 Satyr and 4 Fanatic in the board. Bring in 4 Fanatic vs Blue and Green and Satyr against Black and Control.

[magicdownunder]

I understand your argument with domesticate, its like UWx saying "My god, lets not play sweepers because he is playing boros Charm" but hear me out - with Ux they have a superior deck manipulation engine so they will draw what they need in time.

For us reck being Domesticated is a 4-for-1, its a HUGE blowout so much so you can almost never recover - you can risk it if you like but its not for me.

[dpaine88]

Are all the popular lists running 3 Domestication?

Im mostly concerned about a PTQ this weekend.

[magicdownunder]

Are all the popular lists running 3 Domestication?

Its for the Ux Devotion mirror mainly so yes.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Why not try Adrian Sullivan's list as a starting point?

[Pedros]

Running Reckoner MD is looking better and better to me as well (just board him out vs Blue and Black), I just don't know what to cut for him though - maybe 3 Ash, 2 Satyr and 3 Reckoner? Needs MOAR TESTING!!.

p.s. Really liking Legion's Initiative right now, I'm still going to keep Assemble the Legion MD because it crushes so many decks when it resolves (since barely anyone packs answers).

Please elaborate more about legion's initative and assemble the legion. I might want those cards in my pyroDragons shell. Report later today (shitload of stuff to do after GP in on-magic life ;/)

[magicdownunder]

[deck=MDU's Boros Legion]Lands 25
12 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
1 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 5
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Assemble the Legion

Sideboard 15
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Rod of Ruin
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Here are some videos, show casing the deck against Ux and Bx (SB Plans included, really thinking about running a 2nd Legion's Initiative its really strong against Gx Devotion):

Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G1 vs Ux Devotion
Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary:
G2 vs Bx Devotion
Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G3 vs Ux Devotion

I also finish two other 8-Man's which I'll post in the following two days (which is perfect since I won't have time to play in the next few days).

I've been thinking about MD'ing Boros Reckoner, but I have trouble justifying them when the Bx MU can be rather challenging for this variant (still in our favor but challenging).

[Pedros]

@MDU

lI is sweet when they want to block with their walls , right? It is also sweet to exchange everything with scepter.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd play a temple of silence over a boros guildgate. Cause fuck gates.

I've also decided I'll ask mostly irrelevant questions as my comments on your vids.

[LP, of the Fires]

How do you feel about 1 peak eruption for opposing boros decks?

[magicdownunder]

How do you feel about 1 peak eruption for opposing boros decks?

I havn't been losing to Devotion Boros (which is the most common boros list) so for now I can't justify Peak Eruption, if anything I need to find some better Bx hate so I can move some Recks into main.

heh, maybe I should try 1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion MD like what DerWille did.

EDIT: 6cc is a tad much to ask for.

[Pedros]

One of my friends rundevo boros list with 10 white sources and elspeth, and said they were awsome.

To be honest looks like we are making herevboros agro control

[magicdownunder]

Why not try Adrian Sullivan's list as a starting point?

Hey Johnny_Spike,

I'm under the impression that your are the most experienced Big Boros Pilot on this forum, I notice you really like Adrian's list - I could never pilot Adrian list very well which lead to my horrible impression of the deck (I know the deck does win since I seen it in top8 a number of times, I just can't win with it though).

Thus, in your opinion why do believe Adrian's list is the correct route to tackle the Blue, red and Black meta game? Why is something like my more burn + removal focus approach weaker then the Boros Charm Approach in this meta game.

Also I found a way to re-include Chandra to the list to improve the Bx Mu, what are your thoughts:

[
deck=MDU's Boros Legion]Lands 25
12 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
1 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 19
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 4
4 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard 15
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Rod of Ruin
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Thanks in advance for your response

EDIT: Fixed the decklist

[vundo]

that's perfect, i really didn't want to go down to 3 dragons

[Lightning_Dolt]

Why not try Adrian Sullivan's list as a starting point?

Hey Johnny_Spike,

I'm under the impression that your are the most experienced Big Boros Pilot on this forum, I notice you really like Adrian's list - I could never pilot Adrian list very well which lead to my horrible impression of the deck.

Thus, in your opinion why do believe Adrian's list is the correct route to tackle the Blue, red and Black meta game? Why is something like my more burn + removal focus approach weaker then the Boros Charm Approach in this meta game.

Also I found a way to re-include
Chandra to the list to improve the Bx Mu, what are your thoughts:

[deck=MDU's Boros Legion]
Lands 25
12 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
1 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 19
2 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Ash Zealot
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 4
4 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalker 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard 15
1 Ash Zealot
1 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Rod of Ruin
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Thanks in advance for your response

I'm not in love with Sullivan's list, but I have had success with it. I was initially draw to it because it played all the cards I wanted to play. I think the Charms are there to keep dealing hammer
blows even if your dragons buy it.

Sullivan's list is kind of one dimensional, like the sledgehammer lists last season. They are just meant to throw haymakers at your opponent until they are a bloody pulp. You have to pray you curve out. They can't really pivot and play control all that well. You lean heavily on Reckoner for your defence role. Unfortunately, he isn't sticking around as long these days.

VS blue, I think you're fairly even to good, especially if you're on the "board out my small guys and board in Anger of the Gods" plan.

VS Red, I think you're about even too. You have about the same amount of burn as them in the early game, but you have more top end. Anger of the Gods in the SB

VS Black, I think the matchup is kind of weak. This deck has aggro starts sometimes, but it is harder to go under them.

I think if you are set on the Go Big plan, it would make sense to start with
Sullivan's list, because it's reasonably good at what it does. I think you'll find (like I did) that it is kind of one dimensional though. I like that pyro boros can play aggro or control. Also, the deck has some super awkward openers, with 2x Dragons / 1 land or 5 lands and a dragon etc. I read somewhere that 23 lands has the best chance of a good opener (2-4 lands). I kind of feel like it's true based on my experience. I guess I'll flip the question back on you. What makes you think this approach is better than Pyro Boros, which we've been having a fair deal of success with? Why does your list have so many 2's and 3s? I think you'll be sacrificing even more consistency for the sake of shoe horning in cards you want.

I think something like this would be a good starting point for what you seem to be trying to do:

[deck]
Creatures (20)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (14)
4
Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Magma Jet

Lands (25)
13 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Boros Charm
[/deck]

Sorry for the formatting, site seems to be having issues.

You could even get really stupid and play something like this (would only work in Aggro / Mono U heavy meta):

[deck]

Lands (25)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
12 Mounatain

Creatures (12)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (21)
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
????
[/deck]

Probably not good, but I was thinking about this today.

Sorry for the formatting. Website is fucking up.

[magicdownunder]

@Johnny_Spike, firstly thanks for answering - in regards to why Boros Aggro over Pyrodragons? This is why (I answered it last page):

MTGO Meta Update: Red, Blue, Green, White and Black everywhere (its a fantastic meta).

Dragons, Demons and Merfolk are still the main enemies which in turn has forced me too pre-board most of my removal as a result the Pyro shell didn't provide enough punch to get around my lack of threats thus I've now return back to Boros Aggro (aka big boros).

Why is my creature bases so odd? All the 2x and 3x choices are the situational creatures which are only good during certain MUs (I've been influenced by dpaine88 quest to include MD recks).

My opinion on the list you posted (before edit)? I really like it - I think Chandra needs to be 2x and I don't agree on 4x Angers (anger isn't great vs Devo Boros post board) esp. in a non-burn heavy list, but its more consistence which is a +.

P.S. I really like these types of deck debates, where reasoning and justification is included rather then the typical - run this card because I think its good.

EDIT: gah, you edited your post while I was typing
EDIT2: I dislike spamming so I'll type it here, I agree on Reck being bad vs Black and Control which is why I don't want to run more then 2 MD - its the same with Drinker being horrible vs Red and green (after t3).
EDIT3: The meta didn't change much (minor SB and MD tweaks), just the % of play of each archetype has changed enough to warrant a response.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'll admit, I haven't played big boros for a while. It might not work the way I remember it working. I was running Anger in the SB though, and it lead to a lot of blow outs.

As far as I can tell, the meta hasn't really shifted. The decks you've mentioned are the same that were on the radar already.

I think Reckoner in the MB is ok, but not great. It is actively bad VS Esper / UW Control and B/x.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Trying to fix the formatting :S

[dpaine88]

I really don't like ditching a card just because it isn't good in 1 or 2 matchups. How many cards are actually good in every matchup? I don't think Reckoner is as bad as you think against Black. They can't ever block it and he might eat a removal spell just like any other creature. He can be very very hard to block.

If we go down the route of well Satyr sucks against Red n Green so run 2 of him and run 2 Reckoner cause hes good against Red Green etc, we will just dilute the deck down and make it inconsitent. I think we focus on 4 of's and adjust our sideboard strongly towards the bad matchups we created by excluding maindeck cards such as Satyr and Reckoner.

@MDU, if you are loading up on pre-board removal, wouldn't that make YP better?


I think I can lend a hand on the Adrian Sullivan thing as I do like him and used his deck in October to decent success. I actually played against a Black based deck all 9
rounds, except one W/r aggro deck they were all Mono Black, B/W or Esper.

I actually never even thought to take out the dragons, though that does seem smart now. He wasn't as bad as I thought though as I managed to only have 2 losses on the day.

Sullivans list that I ran was running the full 4 Cackler, Satyr, Zealot and Reckoner which based forced all their removal so by the time I landed the Dragon, they very well might not have an answer.

I was only runnign 2 Boros Charm main and 1 Chains main.


BTW we got some great discusion going on here, lets keep it rolling!

[Lightning_Dolt]

Yeah, just played a bunch VS mono Blue... I remember why I dropped this deck.

Went 1-4.

Guess how many games I had dragons with no mana, or 8 lands with nothing to fucking spend mana on.

[magicdownunder]

@Johnny_Spike: so we all agree that Adrian list is bad for this meta now? (I've yet to lose any full matches against Ux Devotion running my burn focused Boros Legion list)

@dpaine88: The removals I loaded by on are all non-damaging spells (no shocks) thus I needed more bang for my buck hence 4x dragons over the 2x dragon and 4x YP$ list.

I do understand the love for heaps of 4x (esp. in decks which have 0 draw effects) but I'm comfortable with running 6x 1-drops since they're value is pretty much gone by T3 in most MUs, I'll do some testing (during the weekends or if I get back early then I'll tell ya how I feel about the 2/2 split) or I'll write up the board plans and ask a fellow MTGO'er to test em for us and post results .

[Lightning_Dolt]

@Johnny_Spike: so we all agree that Adrian list is bad for this meta now? (I've yet to lose any full matches against Ux Devotion running my burn focused Boros Legion list)

@dpaine88: The removals I loaded by on are all non-damaging spells (no shocks) thus I needed more bang for my buck hence 4x dragons over the 2x dragon and 4x YP$ list.

I do understand the love for heaps of 4x (esp. in decks which have 0 draw effects) but I'm comfortable with running 6x 1-drops since they're value is pretty much gone by T3 in most MUs, I'll do some testing (during the weekends or if I get back early and tell ya how I feel about the 2/2 split) or I'll write up the board plans and ask a fellow MTGO'er to test em for us and post results .

The one drops are terrible T3+, but I think you want 8 to increase your chances of drawing one in your opener.

I think Adrian Sullivan's list is probably outdated. There is likely some updated version that would work reasonably well if we worked on it.

I don't think I want to play any non-23 land decks ever again lol.

Tell me again, why did you dump YP$? You said meta shift, but I need further explanation, because I didn't notice one.

[Zooligan]

I do understand the love for heaps of 4x (esp. in decks which have 0 draw effects) but I'm comfortable with running 6x 1-drops since they're value is pretty much gone by T3 in most MUs

If their value is greatest before T4, wouldn't you want to run the full 8 to maximize your chance of seeing them before that turn?

EDIT: Oops, looks like J_S just said the same thing in the post before this one...

[PirateKingAtomsk]

Just my thoughts on it but yp$ is better off in pyro-red since without the white for chains its more slots for spells to pump out tokens. I believe zem said the minimum spell count you want is 12 for him.

[LaZerBurn]

Some great discussion today guys Here's my thoughts, working from Post 485, organised as succinctly as I can

- I don't personally 'like' Devo lists. That doesn't mean that they are 'bad', as dpaine88 says two T8 lists clearly show that they aren't, just that I find them inconsistent. I totally agree with Johnny about Adrian Sullivan's list

- I'm not sold on the Reckoner MD plan, largely because the Black match up is already weaker in this variant and we have lots of MD removal for G1 that is good in the match ups we would want him in for.

- I haven't missed Chandra so far in the Boros Legion list but if I wanted to improve the B match up by including her I'd
drop Assemble and a Dragon. I wouldn't add in Reckoner and remove 1 drops. The phrase 'one hand giveth' springs to mind

If we go down the route of well Satyr sucks against Red n Green so run 2 of him and run 2 Reckoner cause hes good against Red Green etc, we will just dilute the deck down and make it inconsistent. I think we focus on 4 of's and adjust our sideboard strongly towards the bad matchups we created by excluding maindeck cards such as Satyr and Reckoner.

I agree with this ^^^

[quote="Johnny_Spike » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:23 pm&
quot;]
but I think you want 8 to increase your chances of drawing one in your opener. [/quote]
And this ^^^ I like consistency

The meta shift that caused MDU to dump YP was an increased use of -1-1 effects on MTGO - Golgari Charm, Shrivel and Profit/Loss being the main culprits.

[Pedros]

After writing report now I can post here.

I dont like MD mortars as they are dead vs control. 6 dead cards is too much - reckoners can swing so they are not DEAD - they are just bad. Mortars and chains doesnt do anything...

Tell me more about Legion's Inititative, it will be my pet card Is it better than Boros Charm in most cases? It might be, especially with Assemble the legion.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tonight I am going to test with 4x initiative in the main. It's not the two drop we deserve, but it's the one we need right now.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Because I'm obviously insane.

[magicdownunder]

After writing report now I can post here.

I dont like MD mortars as they are dead vs control. 6 dead cards is too much - reckoners can swing so they are not DEAD - they are just bad. Mortars and chains doesnt do anything...

Tell me more about Legion's Inititative, it will be my pet card Is it better than Boros Charm in most cases? It might be, especially with Assemble the legion.

Have you had the chance to play the "new era" post GP? Your welcome to face down Naya Control, Devo Boros and Rg (not Gr) Devotion without mortars - its rather nasty...

Legion's Inititative is good but not great, Boros Charm is better for tricks whiles LI is better for
pumps (you'll hardly ever save your team from a sweeper with it) - Control is still favorable with 6 removal, its far from great but still favorable.

You CAN'T run 4x Recks in Boros Legions we're not "Pyro" we don't have YP$ you will lose on the draw G1 60% of time (vs Bx devotion, which is still the 2nd most played deck) with 4x Recks over Firedrinker in this variant.

LaZerburn explain one of the main reasons why I moved away from YP$, cutting shocks, needed more punch and the increasing number of Anger of the Gods and Chains is the other.