[Primer] PyroRed

[Valdarith]

Glad you are having success with it. I'm not sure I'll be able to get on MODO for the next ten days or so but I'm probably going to give this a go online as well as paper.

I noticed you were less than 50% vs devotion red. What was the backbreaker in those matchups? I'm wondering if some number of Helix mainboard may be appropriate like in my originally posted list.

[magicdownunder]

Valdarith, do you think Reckoner could be played in your board instead of Anger or is the mana base just too volatile to support him?

Valdarith isn't playing vaults or chandra so its very important that all his spells have an impact on the game, I'm running Frost and Anger mainly because I only have 18 R sources and I can afford to grind out my matches (which is pretty much the only reason why you'll take the pyro variant over the pure burn version).

MDU and others in here: I'm sorry to be a fanboy who just copies all of your lists to test, but I'm still new at Magic and red magey-ness,
so I'm trying to learn from the best (the FoS'ers on this forum ), and... wow. I love that burn list. I've been testing on Cockatrice all day, and it seems to munch almost everything. Esper / other control just seem so favourable! Also, the rage it incites warms my cockles. "OMG fucking noob burn list, Jesus. Fag. Noob. No skill noob burn player."

I'll definitely be testing this burn-heavy list during the week and possibly taking it to FNM to try it out. I have a PTQ in Belfast in two weeks so I'm trying to get a deck in order that I can just focus on.

I've been getting some of that as well, its very amusing.

[Tyrael]

Thanks MDU, I mind switched your list with Valdarith's I think... As most burn lists are running Reckoners I was very interested in hearing why you opted for Anger instead as I'm looking into trying out your list (nearly have all the cards, hurrah).

Furthermore, I've been getting a lot (and I mean A LOT) of flac for running Satyr in my decks. Everyone seems to think it's a shit card and they keep telling me over and over and over... Fun times at FNM

[magicdownunder]

Thanks MDU, I mind switched your list with Valdarith's I think... As most burn lists are running Reckoners I was very interested in hearing why you opted for Anger instead as I'm looking into trying out your list (nearly have all the cards, hurrah).

Furthermore, I've been getting a lot (and I mean A LOT) of flac for running Satyr in my decks. Everyone seems to think it's a shit card and they keep telling me over and over and over... Fun times at FNM

I had thoughts about swapping Satr and Frost MD//SD as well, I only truly like Satr against U and B based decks.

[Tyrael]

Oh and they all seem to think Pyromancer is awful

which is why I want to complete my burn list and kick their butts next week

[Elricity]

I get a lot of rage quit/kick on cockatrice but so far, in paper people were polite as I beat them to death with elementals. Very strange

[Valdarith]

[deck=Valdarith's Boros Burn v1.1]
4 firedrinker satyr
4 rakdos cackler
4 young pyromancer
4 chandra's phoenix

4 shock
2 chained to the rocks
4 boros charm
4 magma jet
4 lightning strike
2 warleader's helix
2 chandra, pyromaster

4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
2 boros guildgate
4 mutavault
8 mountain

2 chained to the rocks
4 skullcrack
3 mizzium mortars
3 toil / trouble
2 warleader's helix
1 tajic, blade of the legion
[/deck]

[vundo]

tons of mono blue at the scg open right now :\
and a fair share of anger of the gods

and does anyone have any good testing against the golgari midrange deck? I feel like it shouldn't be too bad because it has no nykthos for explosive plays but gift of orzhova is a bit disconcerting

[Valdarith]

Are we talking Kibler's brew? Haven't played it but I bet it's a tough matchup. It's decks like those that have made me want to go toward more burn.

[magicdownunder]

Nice to see more people trying Chandra and Vaults in the Burn variant, how is Warleader Helix as a 4x Valdarith? I can't stand its casting cost since I'm so used of playing with lightning helix in modern (actually it seem that vs aggro your running 7 4cc).

Here are some games running PyroBurn/Boros Burn:

Boros Burn Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G1 vs Gr Devotion
Boros Burn Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G2 vs Gr Devotion

Standard Elimination G1 PyroBurn vs Red FoM (Event Unknown 1)
Standard Elimination G2 PyroBurn vs Wr Weenies (Event Unknown 1)
Standard Elimination G3 "Split"

tons of mono blue at the scg open right now :\
and a fair share of anger of the gods

and does anyone have any good testing against the golgari midrange deck? I feel like it shouldn't be too bad because it has no nykthos for explosive plays but gift of orzhova is a bit disconcerting

I played it a few times running my Pyrowhite mocs11 list, haven't really lost a full set against it yet but I heard from the mocs11 winner, its a fairly bad MU for burn heavy variants.

[Keftenk]

MDU, turn the music down a bit. In your WR weenies match up I could barely hear you because the piano was so loud.

[Valdarith]

I would never mainboard all four Helix because it's pretty lackluster in some matchups, but against decks like R/x and some midrange decks I definitely want four postboard.

[magicdownunder]

I would never mainboard all four Helix because it's pretty lackluster in some matchups, but against decks like R/x and some midrange decks I definitely want four postboard.

I meant in you 75 overall , I'm quite bad at drawing lands which is why when I see your seven 4cc spells it scares me.

@Keftenk, I'm still quite newb at commenting, so I welcome these comments (I'll try and avoid that in the future).

[Valdarith]

It scares me too, but I'm playing control vs R/x and don't mind having a Helix stuck in my hand a couple turns because I'm boarding so many other spells that do the same thing in that matchup. Eventually I will win on turn 20 after multiple Phoenix recursions.

[tkoman]

[deck]Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Pyrewild Shaman
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Land
12 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault

Other Spells
3 Shock
1 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortar
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Rod of Ruin
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion[/deck]

I took this list to a GPT in a little town in Missouri (Mountain Grove) and won.

I have only played for nine months, just recently finding some success in a fairly competitive place - won a gameday mat few weeks back with w/b mid (problem with that deck - no mountains. No Chandra). I am red at heart, and I have been following ya'l here since I played my first real deck (I had never
heard of 'DosRakis' but wound up making one on my own - and then saw, yeah, you REALLY thought that out long before me). I just wanted to shout out to ya'll (and I mean really, you all that have contributed - too many names to list) - huge thanks - I went through all of Zeman's writings, the the threads, ALL of your work and videos MDU - took it all to heart. Lots of testing, etc.

I didn't even take any game notes since I don't really win much of anything, but long story short - 4 rounds, cut to top 4 (it's a small store) - played Dega (staeamrolled it - thanks for all the scrying) - mono-black lost, some weird janky blue/white unblockable sort of thing, then mono-U (which I beat 2-0). Cut to top 4 - ranked #1 - get to be on the play due to modified rules. Played another dega (steamrolled - thanks for all the scrying) and then another mono-B (steamrolled, thanks for playing). Of all cards that were all star for me on this night - Pyrewild.

On to Dallas, thanks again

[Helios]

I still dislike Helix. /hasn't tested this variant at all.

good work tkoman! Glad to have you. Now that you know you can win some, take notes next time

[tkoman]

Thanks - funny sidenote - my deck was just posted on facebook for all to see and there is a lot of "ROD OF RUIN"? messages being sent to me. And Tajic? (Yeah, I couldn't find the second Dragon and just went with it) - everyone is confused now.

[vundo]

so mono black with a huge swingback at GPABQ and mono blue at SCGProvidence
And i think theres a ton of white weenie and red aggro in between without much blue based control

[magicdownunder]

I took this list to a GPT in a little town in Missouri (Mountain Grove) and won.

I have only played for nine months, just recently finding some success in a fairly competitive place - won a gameday mat few weeks back with w/b mid (problem with that deck - no mountains. No Chandra). I am red at heart, and I have been following ya'l here since I played my first real deck (I had never heard of 'DosRakis' but wound up making one on my own - and then saw, yeah, you REALLY thought that out long before me). I just wanted to shout out to ya'll (and I mean really, you all that have contributed - too many names to list) - huge thanks - I went through all of Zeman's writings, the the threads, ALL of your work and videos MDU - took it all to heart. Lots of testing, etc.

nI didn't even take any game notes since I don't really win much of anything, but long story short - 4 rounds, cut to top 4 (it's a small store) - played Dega (staeamrolled it - thanks for all the scrying) - mono-black lost, some weird janky blue/white unblockable sort of thing, then mono-U (which I beat 2-0). Cut to top 4 - ranked #1 - get to be on the play due to modified rules. Played another dega (steamrolled - thanks for all the scrying) and then another mono-B (steamrolled, thanks for playing). Of all cards that were all star for me on this night - Pyrewild.

On to Dallas, thanks again

I updated the primer with your win, glad the Big Boros and PyroWhite mix is working for people.

I also agree with Pyrewild being key, esp. now with BG picking up with high level play.

p.s. please post on the Big Boros Thread your list and SB plan, I was meant to write one earlier but I didn't have time.

[Elricity]

Here are some games running PyroBurn/Boros Burn:

Boros Burn Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G1 vs Gr Devotion

Ahaha, "FUK YOUR MOTHER" was priceless

[zemanjaski]

@ FIA. Weapon Surge vs. Titan's Strength. I think there are more x/3s and x/2s than 4/5s, so it seems more powerful?
- lets Satyr and YP beat x/3a whereas T'S doesn't
- worse vs. Smiter / Polukranos
- better in grindy games where YP takes over / board stalls

Thoughts?

[Tyrael]

Thanks - funny sidenote - my deck was just posted on facebook for all to see and there is a lot of "ROD OF RUIN"? messages being sent to me. And Tajic? (Yeah, I couldn't find the second Dragon and just went with it) - everyone is confused now.

Did Tajic work out for you? I'd love for him to find a home

[LaZerBurn]

tons of mono blue at the scg open right now :\
and a fair share of anger of the gods

and does anyone have any good testing against the golgari midrange deck? I feel like it shouldn't be too bad because it has no nykthos for explosive plays but gift of orzhova is a bit disconcerting

Agreed - I've played against it a few times and the deciding factor is Gift, which I have lost to every time I've played so far

[Keftenk]

Thanks - funny sidenote - my deck was just posted on facebook for all to see and there is a lot of "ROD OF RUIN"? messages being sent to me. And Tajic? (Yeah, I couldn't find the second Dragon and just went with it) - everyone is confused now.

Did Tajic work out for you? I'd love for him to find a home

I can't speak for Tkoman, but I run Tajic as well and it'
s pretty strong versus key match ups. It's just a wall that they can't do anything to, which is great! Finding an opening early too with a mutavault activation + Ash Zealot or Phoenix dropping is pretty deadly too.

[tkoman]

Thanks - funny sidenote - my deck was just posted on facebook for all to see and there is a lot of "ROD OF RUIN"? messages being sent to me. And Tajic? (Yeah, I couldn't find the second Dragon and just went with it) - everyone is confused now.

Did Tajic work out for you? I'd love for him to find a home

First - I was tired when posting and posted the WAY wrong SB - have to
fix that above and have the right list on big boros thread, but Tajic was in the board.

Having played the match ups I had I just didn't get to see him a lot - against the hard to describe aggro deck I brought in the aggro board package and him and he was a wall, then one of the hugest attacks/burns I had for lethal. But And he was pretty much there due to my not landing another Dragon in time - I think I would have (and will down the road) been on the more Dragon = better plan.

[tkoman]

p.s. please post on the Big Boros Thread your list and SB plan, I was meant to write one earlier but I didn't have time.

Yeah, should have waited to today to post - had the wrong sideboard - corrected it. Since it is real close to yours probably keep it here.

[Valdarith]

I'm a little apprehensive about my mana base only having 12 untapped red sources. Could be an issue getting down a satyr or Cackler turn one. Might have to cut a couple of Mutavaults and/or add Mountains.

[tkoman]

Thanks MDU, I mind switched your list with Valdarith's I think... As most burn lists are running Reckoners I was very interested in hearing why you opted for Anger instead as I'm looking into trying out your list (nearly have all the cards, hurrah).

Furthermore, I've been getting a lot (and I mean A LOT) of flac for running Satyr in my decks. Everyone seems to think it's a shit card and they keep telling me over and over and over... Fun times at FNM

Not too long ago on MTGS over in the red board they started to talk about siding him out or getting rid of him all together. Rookie though I am, at that point, hell, I even had to sign into to have a little red
mage intervention session.

[LaZerBurn]

I am currently running this PyroBurn list. Started with MDU's list and tweaked a bit Not sure where it belongs so I'm putting it up on both threads to be on the safe side

[deck]
Spells
4 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Land
8 Mountain
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault

Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix


Enchantments
4 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Anger Of The Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Toil Trouble
2 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Spark Trooper[/deck]

Thoughts - feedback most welcome
- Helix is great, 3 is
enough, 2 would most likely be fine.
- Skullcrack is good but could easily go into the board to allow for MD FDS or Weird.
- Very happy with the Vaults, I'd like to try Temple Of Silence in the Guildgate slot but I haven't got any
- Not 100% sure about YP in here but haven't faced any MBD in weeks, seems to be Golgari lists now. Anyone else finding this?
- I really, really like Anger
- Weird is good, am going to try Reckoner in this slot though.
- Toil is good but not sure if it's actually needed.
- Spark Trooper is incredibly good! So good I am going to get another one
- Haven't tried Tajic or Blind Obedience as I haven't got any

[Valdarith]

Spark Trooper may just be better than Toil since it always represents 6 damage. It dies to removal but vs Esper it's kind of a wash since both can be countered.

[magicdownunder]

@Valdarith, go point on Spark Trooper - I might try him as well (not really liking trouble)
@LaZerBurn, I'm a massive fan of your tweaks, I'm not sure about 4 chains but I do understand the reasoning - I think cutting Trouble for +1 Firedrinker Satyr and +1 Spark Trooper is the correct call.

Hmmm trying to work out the correct SB plan vs MonoU

+4 Frostburn Weird
+4 Anger Of The Gods
+2 Mizzium Mortars
-4 Rakdos Cackler
-3 Young Pyromancer
-2 Skullcrack
-1 Warleader's Helix

Keeping 2 Skullcrack to live the dream with Anger Of The Gods?

(sob... sob... no chandra..., in this kinda of deck is Helix >> then Chandra? I don't think so but time will tell)

[TBuzzsaw]

There's room for both Toil//Trouble and Spark Trooper in the side. I don't see siding in Sparky against Esper anyways.

Blind Obedience sounds very interesting to try out. How often have you guys been able to extort on average per game?

I really want to try out Tajik in the Pyroburn version but I don't think he belongs there, but man, my foil Tajik is just sitting in my folder just begging to be played since I pulled him during Dragon's Maze pre-release.

[zemanjaski]

Titan's Strength vs Weapon's Surge vs Coordinated Assault?

[magicdownunder]

Titan's Strength vs Weapon's Surge vs Coordinated Assault?

[card]Titan's Strength[/card] because Scry is important, the others are better in Boss builds.

[zemanjaski]

I like the others because they let Satyr / YP beat Spectre. They're also better in board stalls and vs. GW. I should probably refocus on standard and just test myself

[Valdarith]

I like Coordinated Assault a lot. As long as you have enough two power dudes it should be good most of the time. Subpar vs Smiter but otherwise pretty strong. If you're running Boss Sligh you could get more mileage out of Weapon Surge if you're not running many heroic creatures.

[RaidaTheBlade]

So, it seems like the PyroWhite/Walter White/Heisenburn list have been drifting 2 directions...

More towards Big Boros, with Mouthbreather dragons to top out the creatures, or even more burn, forgoing even chandra sometimes for huge amounts of spells.

Which of these two approaches seems better situated in the metagame as a whole right now, do you think? I find myself leaning more towards the stormbreaths and chandras, but the burn seems interesting as well...

[Valdarith]

I think the burn heavy list is better because you have so much more reach and can opt to dodge removal postboard. It really helps the mono blue matchup and makes the mono black matchup even easier. Also makes midrange matchups a lot more manageable where traditional lists would be unfavored even postboard. The meta is so focused on creatures right now and I just don't think decks are prepared for this burn heavy strategy at all.

[magicdownunder]

So, it seems like the PyroWhite/Walter White/Heisenburn list have been drifting 2 directions...

More towards Big Boros, with Mouthbreather dragons to top out the creatures, or even more burn, forgoing even chandra sometimes for huge amounts of spells.

Which of these two approaches seems better situated in the metagame as a whole right now, do you think? I find myself leaning more towards the stormbreaths and chandras, but the burn seems interesting as well...

I'm playing both variants, I feel more secure with the slightly more burn focused variant - but I enjoy playing the Big Boros + PyroWhite mix slightly more then burn.

I think the burn heavy list is better because you have so much more reach and can opt to dodge removal postboard. It really helps the mono blue matchup and makes the mono black matchup even easier. Also makes midrange matchups a lot more manageable where traditional lists would be unfavored even postboard. The meta is so focused on creatures right now and I just don't think decks are prepared for this burn heavy strategy at all.

Burn is weaker to Black strategy, 6-8 discard spells cripple you.

[Helios]

Can someone give me a tl;dr or what burn does that Walter White doesn't? These lists seem predicated on the assumption that Ash Zealot and Satyr are not going to deal 4 points of damage (since many of the decks are the same otherwise).