Ragnarok Mafia (Scum Win) Tattered Banners and Bloody Flags

[hamfactorial]

Guys, why do I scare noobs so much ._. James wouldn't read me either.

Kaze too stronk

It's because you're this adorable anime type hipster guy in the FoS thread, then we get into a mafia game and the scarf comes off.

[Kazekirimaru]

Guys, why do I scare noobs so much ._. James wouldn't read me either.

Kaze too stronk

It's because you're this adorable anime type hipster guy in the FoS thread, then we get into a mafia game and the scarf comes off.

...

Where is Iso damnit...

[Iso]

I didn't get home from work 'til 6:40 in the morning because my goddamn managers take forever counting shit. I clocked out at 3:15.

Anyway, delaying a scene until after I get some rest so I don't mess anything up. You guys'll probably have until late afternoon/early evening EST. I'll do things then.

[rcwraspy]

Ok. Ham, that means keep talking if you have anything to say.

Stardust! Why so gambit-y this game?

[Stardust]

P.Edit. Stardust, WTF? Ok, if that's true, what did it all just tell you? And why shouldn't that gambit make you prime scumspect #1?

I'll get to what it told me in a sec, but it shouldn't change your opinion of me at all. Identify a scum motivation, then you can say that.

I figured as much. I actually like this gambit by you because it almost forced ham to take a stand on someone. Not sure if it clears him one way or the other, though. As scum I think he would have jumped at the idea of killing another townie toDay but it also probably would have sealed his lynch.

nYeah, I could tell you knew what was going on. Frankly, I didn't consider this a gambit when I posted it since I figured it would be so obviously hypothetical based on the wording in this post. I just felt like Hammy was asking me, "Should I take this question seriously, yes or no?" and I obviously wanted him to take it seriously. I'm extremely surprised so many people believed me.

I fucking KNEW IT

Damn it Stardust. You're town, aren't you?

Yeah, obv.

Starbuck (that's your new name now, fuck it) giving ham a shot would have been dumb, but
she's obviously still town.

Are you hitting on me?

Pretty sure rezombad is town. His overreaction makes sense from that perspective since he legitimately thought I'd given a vig shot to a scum player. I'd be pissed too.

I'll lynch ham, or stardust. if star isn't scum, I don't know what he's going for.

I'm going for information. A bit more aggressively than usual, maybe, but same as ever. If we're lynching hammy, I want something to point to that ties him to others directly. Figured he might also confirm his alignment with both the choice and his approach to that choice since I was (and am) still pretty unsure about this lynch.


Oh! Pie hammered! I thought I was coming in here to an L-1
wagon. Well, fingers crossed!





I'll do a quick rundown of what I thought of my hypothetical anyway. ham's response came while I was driving home - I posted this at a red light because it was really important that I end that lie ASAP, but I had no time to devote to this then. ham's "I re-read the thread" was the most important bit to me - it had taken him a long time to respond, and I believed him. Scum wouldn't need to reread, town would, so that line alone was worth an unvote to think it over.

TubeHunter hit the nail on the head with this post, though:

So you want to kill me cause I'm scum, but you wouldn't cause I'm town? What do you view me as? Sorry, may have convinced stardust, but you're not convincing me. My vote is
not moving

So yeah, ham's probably scum. That was reinforced by this post by hammy which makes it clear he thought of my "vig shot" as a trap:

If he was scum, I would not suspect him of being so and wouldn't vote for him. If I chose to use it, and after he revealed that the daykill was fake, he could point to my willingness to kill someone after saying that I wouldn't and everyone would lynch me for switching up on a dime.

I mean, it kinda was a trap, but him choosing to shoot someone would not seal his lynch depending on how he went about it. That's why I asked so many questions about his motivation and reads following.

Anyway, then he went on to be helpful following his lynch, so he's probably town despite all this, but the lynch was a good one at the time.




nNow we come to the weird part. If there is a nightvig in this game, I want you to shoot me. Seriously. You should do it. Even better, save your shot and kill me on some later night. This is not a trap. Killing me will avoid hurting the town. So think about it.

In case I do die, here's a reads list. This is mostly based on hammy flipping town, so take that as you will.

rezombad - very town -- his posting feels 100% like town rezombad. His freak out over my "vig shot" was perfect.
Kazekirimaru - very town -- if Kaze is scum, hats off to him, because this is town Kaze through and through.
TubeHunter - town -- both in read and in role. The fact that his shot was limited to two players makes it much more possible to be a scum ability, but still unlikely. I think we've got a 3 town neighbourhood.

rcwraspy - leaning town -- I want to say town, but he hasn't given me enough to really solidify this read.
Lord_McDonalds - leaning town -- wasn't too sure, but his posting following hammy's
lynch felt good.
InflatablePie - leaning town -- I'm a little wary of him since his defense of me sometimes feels like it's crossing the line from reasonable to buddying, but overall I've liked his posting a lot. His vote for hammy felt a bit wrong though.

DroppinSuga - null -- was leaning town, but I agree that his posting near the end of the ham lynch was weird. Also of note is that he's playing better than I've seen before - much less "I'm from a different site and what is this". "Too townie to be town" does actually apply with certain players' metas.

Yannaria - likely scum -- I don't think he was voting me for the right reasons. He ignored the ham wagon almost entirely and to the end was pushing my lynch in place of hammy's. If hammy does flip scum, this'll really seal this.
imopen2 - likely scum -- his backpedalling on his reasoning for pushing my lynch really sealed this read for me.

[Stardust]

Stardust! Why so gambit-y this game?

Because gambits are both fun and informative!

Actually, the only gambit I ran this game was my very first post. Like I said, I didn't intend for my hypothetical vig-shot to become a gambit (though I wasn't about to ruin a good thing once it started exploding!).

[Yannaria]

Quit pretending like Stardust is a viable lynch today.

Fine

unvote, vote hamfactorial

EAT DICKS
unvote vote lmd

[Stardust]

Quit pretending like Stardust is a viable lynch today.

Fine

unvote, vote hamfactorial

EAT DICKS
unvote vote lmd

Is this a "Uh oh! Stardust is onto me! Better act more random!" post?

[Yannaria]

I'm ignoring the ham wagon ebcause it's cacapoopoo it's his first game christ

[Yannaria]

to reiterate: eat dicks

[hamfactorial]

If you note, I did not vote for you though. I was never comfortable with this lynch in the first place since I thought you were town. I never went with the popular opinion, I've always been questioning people who weren't being pressured by anyone else.

I isolated your posts (http://diestoremoval.com/search.php?t=1 ... roppinsuga) and agree that you expressed doubt about my lynch, only jumping on at the end where I was frustrated and waiting around to be killed.

You've made mention of Yan posting stupid things multiple times (3 by my count), but everyone seems to ignore it. I wonder what that's about?

[hamfactorial]

I've also noticed that the 6 people who lynched me (TH, Raspy, Kaze, Rez, LMD and Pie) are mostly null/town reads by the members here. Yan and imopen (the scum suspects from Stardust's list) didn't vote for me. As scum, no need to draw attention or cast the hammer vote if the townies are mislynching?

[rcwraspy]

Stardust! Why so gambit-y this game?

Because gambits are both fun and informative!

Actually, the only gambit I ran this game was my very first post. Like I said, I didn't intend for my hypothetical vig-shot to become a gambit (though I wasn't about to ruin a good thing once it started exploding!).

A gambit is a gambit whether intentional or not. Because WIFOM. How are we to know what you intend, when something like this extra vig thing
happens?

That said,

P.Edit. Stardust, WTF? Ok, if that's true, what did it all just tell you? And why shouldn't that gambit make you prime scumspect #1?

I'll get to what it told me in a sec, but it shouldn't change your opinion of me at all. Identify a scum motivation, then you can say that.

I like this post. I was throwing that out there to see how you reacted to it, and you didn't take the bait (though you are a pretty experienced player so it may have been obvious).

[Stardust]

I've also noticed that the 6 people who lynched me (TH, Raspy, Kaze, Rez, LMD and Pie) are mostly null/town reads by the members here. Yan and imopen (the scum suspects from Stardust's list) didn't vote for me. As scum, no need to draw attention or cast the hammer vote if the townies are mislynching?

That's basically my thought. Yanni's voting for me because there's no risk - either the tide shifts and he's among the first on my wagon, or he gets to say that he wasn't on your mislynch. imopen not voting you even after talking about how you weren't town was out of place too. I think both of them are being too conservative.

You've made mention of Yan posting stupid things multiple times (3 by
my count), but everyone seems to ignore it. I wonder what that's about?

This is Yanni's playstyle. It takes some getting used to, and frequently results in him being mislynched, but once you realise that he acts that way as town, it gets hard to get a solid read on him. I haven't played with him as scum, but my advice is to ignore his spam and instead look for what he's not talking about and how he does approach what's going on.

P.Edit. Stardust, WTF? Ok, if that's true, what did it all just tell you? And why shouldn't that gambit make you prime scumspect #1?

I'll get to what it told me in a sec, but
it shouldn't change your opinion of me at all. Identify a scum motivation, then you can say that.

I like this post. I was throwing that out there to see how you reacted to it, and you didn't take the bait (though you are a pretty experienced player so it may have been obvious).

Hmm, I didn't notice a trap there, and still can't see it actually. What bait were you throwing out? What reaction would you expect from scum me?

[imopen2]

I've also noticed that the 6 people who lynched me (TH, Raspy, Kaze, Rez, LMD and Pie) are mostly null/town reads by the members here. Yan and imopen (the scum suspects from Stardust's list) didn't vote for me. As scum, no need to draw attention or cast the hammer vote if the townies are mislynching?

Or no reason to quick lynch someone while I was letting stardust's "hypothetical" play out. WIFOM.

Anyways, still not 100% sure ham is town but he probably is. Maybe we should do t/s lists toMorrow? My main scum read is still stardust and I feel like I might be tunneling so t/s lists might be just the thing to give me some fresh reads

[Stardust]

My main scum read is still stardust and I feel like I might be tunneling so t/s lists might be just the thing to give me some fresh reads

Can you do me a favour and case me? You keep on repeating that I'm your main scum read, but when I challenge you on why you think that, you back down. Like, I know you're itching to get me lynched, but I don't think you have a case that you really believe in.

[imopen2]

My main scum read is still stardust and I feel like I might be tunneling so t/s lists might be just the thing to give me some fresh reads

Can you do me a favour and case me? You keep on repeating that I'm your main scum read, but when I challenge you on why you think that, you back down. Like, I know you're itching to get me lynched, but I don't think you have a case that you really believe in.

I didn't back down. The post where you questioned me was a conflicted "stream-of-consciousness" comment about how I thought you were still scum, despite the events at
the time. You're right that I'm not as sure as I'd like to be but that doesn't mean you aren't still my biggest suspect. I can't really case you effectively on my phone at work but I can do it tonight around 8pm central.

From memory:

initial "gambit" with possible scumslip, later explained as a purposeful gambit, attempting to look null in order to survive. Felt more like hoping to look null in order to not be found out as scum.

Absence of professor stardust is strange

More loose play/more gambit type play is strange

Waffling on ham a number of times - probably null since a lot of people did this

Bread crumbling your role in post 1 was out of character for you as far as I've seen

"Messy" reads list seemed off

This is really hard to do on my phone...anyways, like I said, it's entirely possible that I have been tunneling you and I suggested t/s lists so I could reevaluate my stances. A couple things I noticed when I iso'd your posts.

You said rcw is
probably town but he missed his chance to be confirmed. Why do you think he is probably town?

Also, early on you said pie's posts were a WIFOM mess and that you would try to read them later. I didn't see the later post, did I miss it? If not, could you try to read them now?

[rcwraspy]

P.Edit. Stardust, WTF? Ok, if that's true, what did it all just tell you? And why shouldn't that gambit make you prime scumspect #1?

I'll get to what it told me in a sec, but it shouldn't change your opinion of me at all. Identify a scum motivation, then you can say that.

I like this post. I was throwing that out there to see how you reacted to it, and you didn't take
the bait (though you are a pretty experienced player so it may have been obvious).

Hmm, I didn't notice a trap there, and still can't see it actually. What bait were you throwing out? What reaction would you expect from scum me?

It wasn't a trap. I simply wanted to gauge your reaction to the question. If you came out with some elaborate defense of why you shouldn't be considered scum for the dayvig hypothetical, that would have set off alarm bells. Your actual response could be considered a deflection, but it's one that at least makes sense from town.

[Kazekirimaru]

So yeah, ham's probably scum.

Anyway, then he went on to be helpful following his lynch, so he's probably town despite all this, but the lynch was a good one at the time.

[Stardust]

Not bad going from memory. Maybe I'm wrong about you since that at least proves that you're thinking about this. Oh. But you said later that you iso'd my posts. Meh.

Absence of professor stardust is strange

Amusing that this is... something that I can't talk about.

More loose play/more gambit type play is strange

I feel like I'm playing more aggressively this game, but I have run early game gambits before. In fact, I'd say the majority of my recent town games have had a minor gambit within the first few posts, though most never caught so much attention. Take a
look if you don't believe me.

Bread crumbling your role in post 1 was out of character for you as far as I've seen

As far as I can recall, I've only done this once before, when I replaced into Bioshock. My role really is crazy though, no joke. If I die tonight, maybe you'll find out what it is tomorrow.


The rest is your prerogative. Do me one more favour. I want you to talk about my scum motivation for grilling ham so hard, ultimately leading up to the day vig scandal. Also, the scum motivation for declaring so many town reads or posting a reads list so late in the Day. As you see it, of course.

You said rcw is probably town but he missed his chance to be
confirmed. Why do you think he is probably town?

I've seen him play as scum. I've never had to read him as scum since I was scum too, but he's more engaged and more natural here. I generally like his lines of thought and the questions he's been asking.

Also, early on you said pie's posts were a WIFOM mess and that you would try to read them later. I didn't see the later post, did I miss it? If not, could you try to read them now?

I think you might have misread my post. I never said I'd try to read those posts later, I said I'd read Pie later. Reading WIFOM is a waste of time regardless of how late in the Day it is. I was more interested in reading Pie's reaction to his own WIFOM - basically, how he used that information he was supposedly generating and how he carried himself as
more information became available from other sources too.

[Stardust]

'Sup, Kaze?

[Kazekirimaru]

I just don't understand how you can read someone two different ways in the same post. Either he's probably town or he's probably scum. What is it?

[Stardust]

Probably town. That section of my post was going through ham's reaction to the vig shot. Basically, if I'd been here at the time, I would have voted him too. Now that his lynch is finalized and he's still being really helpful, he's probably town.

[rezombad]

Probably town. That section of my post was going through ham's reaction to the vig shot. Basically, if I'd been here at the time, I would have voted him too. Now that his lynch is finalized and he's still being really helpful, he's probably town.

your vote was on him the whole time

[Stardust]

Probably town. That section of my post was going through ham's reaction to the vig shot. Basically, if I'd been here at the time, I would have voted him too. Now that his lynch is finalized and he's still being really helpful, he's probably town.

your vote was on him the whole time

Nope.

[Stardust]

So whats our plan for tomorrow (or tonight)?

What were you hoping to plan with this post, LMD? It almost looks like fishing to me.

[rezombad]

Probably town. That section of my post was going through ham's reaction to the vig shot. Basically, if I'd been here at the time, I would have voted him too. Now that his lynch is finalized and he's still being really helpful, he's probably town.

your vote was on him the whole time

Nope.

Your vote was on him until you were all 'lol jk i didnt give you a vig shot, unvote'

[Stardust]

Right. What's your point?

[Mcdonalds]

So whats our plan for tomorrow (or tonight)?

What were you hoping to plan with this post, LMD? It almost looks like fishing to me.

At the rate this game has been going, I was rather bemused nothing had been discussed at the time

At worst, we could have discussed the implications of hams flip and who our potential lynches for tomorrow are.

[Stardust]

We still could. What do you think ham's flip will tell us? If he flips town, who's scum? If he flips scum, who's town?

If that's "at worst" what's at best?

[DroppinSuga]

Ham = Town
I'm looking into rezombo heavily tomorrow

Ham = Scum
InflatablePie will be getting my FOS.

[Mcdonalds]

Town: no clue, if you guys do anything other than try and lynch me or rezombad I'll be confused

Scum: Yanni starts leaning scum in my book

Not sure what our at best is, other than you, no one has hinted at what their roles could be

@suga, why pie?

[DroppinSuga]

Pie was the hammer. Possible bussing?

[Mcdonalds]

Feel free to correct me ( on phone) but wasn't me or rezombad the hammer?

Or did I not notice?

[Kazekirimaru]

Feel free to correct me ( on phone) but wasn't me or rezombad the hammer?

Or did I not notice?

You did not notice.

[DroppinSuga]

Pie was, in fact, the hammer.

[Mcdonalds]

Feel free to correct me ( on phone) but wasn't me or rezombad the hammer?

Or did I not notice?

You did not notice.

[rcwraspy]

Town: no clue, if you guys do anything other than try and lynch me or rezombad I'll be confused

So you're saying you've been playing scummy?

[TubeHunter]

Scum(he fucking better be): probably going after Either Pie or Yanni.

Town: I'm gonna see what going on with Rezmo.

[Mcdonalds]

Town: no clue, if you guys do anything other than try and lynch me or rezombad I'll be confused

So you're saying you've been playing scummy?

Was under the impression I or rezombad was the hammer