[Primer] PyroRed

[Jack]

In fact, I'd say that PV's article on aggro - control (along with his one on aggro) is required reading for anyone that plays this deck.

[Purp]

Should def put my IQ report in the primer

[BobMcFail]

Hello I'm new to DTR, so I'll start with a few questions about this deck.

How good is Chandra?
Is it possible to play a version without her that tops out with Phoenix?
What do you guys think about Legions Iniative and Akroan Hoplite? They are kind of my pet cards but could be pretty sweet with all the tokens.
How good is Mutavault in the deck?
The last one is @Freedom do you have a link?

[Purp]

BobMcFail read the first post of this thread, all your questions will be answered

[Zooligan]

It's easier for me to run Monte Carlo simulations instead of trying to make sure I'm getting the hypergeometic distribution right.

How do you do that? Could you put together an application that would allow us to enter our own decklists, choose which variables to enter and summarize on (which and how many target cards by which turn, etc)?

[windstrider]

Hello I'm new to DTR, so I'll start with a few questions about this deck.

1. How good is Chandra?
2. Is it possible to play a version without her that tops out with Phoenix?
3. What do you guys think about Legions Initiative and Akroan Hoplite? They are kind of my pet cards but could be pretty sweet with all the tokens.
4. How good is Mutavault in the deck?
5. The last one is @Freedom do you have a link?

Hi, Bob. Welcome aboard.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these questions have been answered or discussed previously. We're mostly of the opinion that people should look for answers themselves by reading the various Primers and articles. But, since it can be intimidating to read through 50+ pages of deck stuff, here's some
quick answers.

1. She's the best planeswalker currently in the game.
2. Yes, especially since there are times when you won't even see her in a game. That being said, she is a valuable asset to have available. Chandra + her Phoenix together are amazing value.
3. The current thinking on Initiative is that it doesn't do quite enough. The (mostly) power boost is nice, but it's not necessary, and we have better wrath protection with Boros Charm, which is more versatile. Hoplite is a card to keep an eye on, but, to me, it doesn't have enough value yet because of a lack of evasion.
4. Very, very good. They're additional threats in a deck that wants to have max value out of everything it plays.
5. PV's article can be found here: http://www.channelfireball.com/home/pvs ... o-control/

Edit: Fixed grammar issue.

[montu]

It's easier for me to run Monte Carlo simulations instead of trying to make sure I'm getting the hypergeometic distribution right.

How do you do that? Could you put together an application that would allow us to enter our own decklists, choose which variables to enter and summarize on (which and how many target cards by which turn, etc)?

No, I don't have anything easily used by others. (It's all custom code I wrote in Matlab.)

If you check out these articles, there's a link to some pretty extensive C++ code you could modify to run your own analysis.



Direct Link to code: http://aluminumangel.org/Magic%20Probab ... oolkit.zip

[Aodh]

You can also conduct MC(MC) in R and S+.

[Zooligan]

Yeah, that's way over my head as far as programming goes. Alas, I know what I want to do, but am not enough of a code sorcerer to do it.

EDIT: Ha, HA! F U inferiority complex! I figured it out using Python scripting. Bad Python scripting I'm sure. And all hard-coded. But still, now I know how to do it, even if it is inflexible clunking code.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ windstrider : Jace the Mind Sculptor says no.

[RaidaTheBlade]

@ windstrider : Jace the Mind Sculptor says no.

Chandra, Pyromaster is the RED MINDSCULPTOR.
And since it's red, it is inherently better.

But seriously, a synergistic + ability, a 0 that generates card advantage, and a finisher that is actually relevant as all heck!

Beautiful!

[Tyrael]

I wish she was 10 bucks beautiful instead of 30 bucks beautiful though

[windstrider]

@ windstrider : Jace the Mind Sculptor says no.

JtMS cannot be cast by Mountains alone, therefore he is inferior to Chandra, Thighmaster.

Edit my earlier statement to "Chandra is the best planeswalker currently in Standard," and it's true.

[RaidaTheBlade]

That is silly amounts of true. Though I have friends who deny it whenever I say so, and instead try and say Domri. He's good, but not as good as Chandra...

[Yarpus]

I'm slowly recognizing the power Xenagos has.
This guy is good. PyroGruul might actually prefer him over Chandra due to fixing bad Mono Black matchup.

[vundo]

I don't like planeswalkers as answers to MonoBlack. 4 mana for a 2/2 doesn't seem that appealing

[Tyrael]

Xenagos will rule once Chandra rotates out

calling it

[montu]

Yeah, that's way over my head as far as programming goes. Alas, I know what I want to do, but am not enough of a code sorcerer to do it.

EDIT: Ha, HA! F U inferiority complex! I figured it out using Python scripting. Bad Python scripting I'm sure. And all hard-coded. But still, now I know how to do it, even if it is inflexible clunking code.

Love it! Yeah, it's pretty much just loops and counting.

Looking forward to your Monte Carlo insights!

[Yarpus]

He feeds DD and grants a threat largely immune to their removal suite.

[soebek]

Xenagos will rule once Chandra rotates out

calling it

Xenagos won't be in a Standard without Chandra, though. This was her first Core Set appearance, so she'll be reprinted in M15 guaranteed.

[Tyrael]

Xenagos will rule once Chandra rotates out

calling it

Xenagos won't be in a Standard without Chandra, though. This was her first Core Set appearance, so she'll be reprinted in M15 guaranteed.

Phew that's good

I know that my investment will be viable for an extra year ^^

[Khaospawn]

@ windstrider : Jace the Mind Sculptor says no.

Blasphemy. Search your feelings, JS, you know this to be true.

[magicdownunder]

Should def put my IQ report in the primer

Will do, but if I do this I'll also have to dig up the other IQ win (etc Vondo first place IQ) and I don't know how many countless other.

I think that is why Helios didn't include them when he was working on the primer.

on that note: anyone who has a IQ or GPT win please let me know, so I don't need to dig.

[Zooligan]

Love it! Yeah, it's pretty much just loops and counting.

Looking forward to your Monte Carlo insights!

First thing I did was run your same numbers for comparison. Numbers started to converge towards yours with as few as 5,000 iterations.

Time to start stalking the Python forums to find ways to make the routine more flexible.

Question: are there types of mtg deck/hand questions this type of sim is better at answering than others?

[dpaine88]

Ah man, Final Fantasy MMO had me sucked in hard.

All I needed was SCG Open coming to town this weekend to wake my ass up!!

Greats to MDU and Purp on your recent accomplishments.

Really trying to top 8 this bitch....been getting stuck in 10-12 the past 200+ person events I've been going to.

Read the past 4 pages or so, most of you switch to R/W I see???

[Lightning_Dolt]

Chandra is the best in standard and possibly modern. I like koth better though.

[montu]

MOCS11- Rematch LIVE VIDEOS

G3: PyroWhite vs Black Green Rock

Was checking out this video to get some ideas, since BG Midrange has stomped me lately.

(Hopefully not a stupid) Question: In game 2 (which was a sweet game, btw), why didn't you dome him with Chandra for 1 and then fly over with the Phoenix to end the game? (at 37:15 in the video).

FYI . . . this is the deck that stomped me 2 matches in a row.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/8230

[LP, of the Fires]

Probably just tunnel vision from being so far ahead.

[magicdownunder]

MOCS11- Rematch LIVE VIDEOS

G3: PyroWhite vs Black Green Rock

Was checking out this video to get some ideas, since BG Midrange has stomped me lately.

(Hopefully not a stupid) Question: In game 2 (which was a sweet game, btw), why didn't you dome him with Chandra for 1 and then fly over with the Phoenix to end the game? (at 37:15 in the video).

FYI . . . this is the deck that stomped me 2 matches in a row.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/
archetype/8230

He had Ooze and enough creatures, he wanted to activate vaults (block), Ooze (Block), the hydra get faltered by Chandra +1 damage he is on 2 - so he then (blocks) with Sylvan Caryatid and then tap before damage activation Ooze to gain one life he is back on 3 my Bird then only deals 2 so he'll be back on 1, then he'll swing the following turn to kill me.

Hitting the Shock was the only reason why I won.

Probably just tunnel vision from being so far ahead.

At least look at the video...

[dpaine88]

Montu - The opponent had 1 green mana up and Scavaging Ooze out with Boros Reckoner in GY.

Could just gain 1 life then GG.

[poppa_f]

Deck-List:

[deck=Zemanjaski 's PyroWhite - MDU Tweaked]Lands 23
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 StormBreath Dragon
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

No room for Boros charm at all? Have you changed your mind about this card since the Channel Fireball article?

There are a lot of control decks in my local meta, so I'm leaning towards
playing it for the sweeper defence.

In other news, I saw a guy on Channel Fireball recommending a Rakdos variant which uses Toil // Trouble, mainly to peg back Sphinx's Rev:
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... -standard/

[TBuzzsaw]

I don't know if I'm late or whatnot, but is this someone from the board?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=60697

[Keftenk]

Wow, now a list like that takes me back (by like 2 weeks lol; BTE and FFS)

[vundo]

I don't know if I'm late or whatnot, but is this someone from the board?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=60697

yeah, here's a brief report
viewtopic.php?p=138986#p138986

[magicdownunder]

We may have a few other IQ winners beside vundo, Pulp happen to be most vocal about it.

So I repeat, any other winners of IQ and GPT please let me know .

EDIT: I'm starting to believe it may just be Vundo and Pulp, but I could of sworn I read about other DtR players running these types of event in the clan thread.

[montu]

He had Ooze and enough creatures, he wanted to activate vaults (block), Ooze (Block), the hydra get faltered by Chandra +1 damage he is on 2 - so he then (blocks) with Sylvan Caryatid and then tap before damage activation Ooze to gain one life he is back on 3 my Bird then only deals 2 so he'll be back on 1, then he'll swing the following turn to kill me.

Hitting the Shock was the only reason why I won.

grrr . . . I knew I was missing something. I did consider the Ooze, but I didn't catch the untapped land AND missed that he could have tapped the Sylvan. (That's what I get for watching the video in low-res).

I really enjoy these videos. I approach them like the chess solitaire puzzles, where you have to guess the next move.
I frequently find myself choosing different lines of play, which creates opportunity for reflection.

The decisions that have been hardest for me is knowing when to play Chained to the Rock. Should I play it early and get early damage through or hang onto it for later threats? Watching your videos has helped me get a better handle on this.

[montu]

Question: are there types of mtg deck/hand questions this type of sim is better at answering than others?

Well . . . here's a real world question that I'm going to look at:

I started playing the White version this week on MTGO, and really like it, so I'm planning on playing it this Friday.

In the main deck, I don't have 2 Temple of Triumph and 1 Pyrewild Shaman. Assuming I can't get them by Friday, what's the best substitution?

Q1: If I swap 2 Mountains for the Temples, how often will get stuck with a dead Chained to the Rocks?
Q2: If I swap 1 Mountain and 1 Plains, how does that increase my chances of mulligan?
Q3: What are the
probabilities of a successful play if I swap the Pyrewild Shaman with a 5-drop or a 4-drop.

Those are the types of questions I'll be asking.

Interesting Fact: I originally wrote the Monte Carlo routine to optimize my chances with a (casual) Hunted Horror deck I built. I needed to have a Leyline of Singularity in my opening hand since I didn't run any blue mana sources. I wanted to see the effect of having various copies of Serum Powder on getting a successful opening hand.

[Tyrael]

Well . . . here's a real world question that I'm going to look at:

I started playing the White version this week on MTGO, and really like it, so I'm planning on playing it this Friday.

In the main deck, I don't have 2 Temple of Triumph and 1 Pyrewild Shaman. Assuming I can't get them by Friday, what's the best substitution?

Q1: If I swap 2 Mountains for the Temples, how often will get stuck with a dead Chained to the Rocks?
Q2: If I swap 1 Mountain and 1 Plains, how does that increase my chances of mulligan?

Boros Guildgate?

I don't know if I'm late or whatnot, but is this someone from the board?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=60697

How do you guys feel about changing the FFS for Gore-House Chainwalkers in a control-heavy meta?

[montu]

Well . . . here's a real world question that I'm going to look at:

I started playing the White version this week on MTGO, and really like it, so I'm planning on playing it this Friday.

In the main deck, I don't have 2 Temple of Triumph and 1 Pyrewild Shaman. Assuming I can't get them by Friday, what's the best substitution?

Q1: If I swap 2 Mountains for the Temples, how often will get stuck with a dead Chained to the Rocks?
Q2: If I swap 1 Mountain and 1 Plains, how does that increase my chances of
mulligan?

Boros Guildgate?

The loss of tempo drives me nuts. (I don't mind as much with the Temple Scry 1.)

My hunch is with only 2 Chained to the Rocks MB, you can get away with 2 Mountains for the Temples. But after boarding, with a total of 4 Chained to the Rocks, you're probably right that having 2 Boros Guildgate would be the way to go.

I'll post the stats once I run them.

[Purp]

He had Ooze and enough creatures, he wanted to activate vaults (block), Ooze (Block), the hydra get faltered by Chandra +1 damage he is on 2 - so he then (blocks) with Sylvan Caryatid and then tap before damage activation Ooze to gain one life he is back on 3 my Bird then only deals 2 so he'll be back on 1, then he'll swing the following turn to kill me.

Hitting the Shock was the only reason why I won.

grrr . . . I knew I was missing something. I did consider the Ooze, but I didn't catch the untapped land AND missed that he could have tapped the Sylvan. (That's what I get
for watching the video in low-res).

I really enjoy these videos. I approach them like the chess solitaire puzzles, where you have to guess the next move. I frequently find myself choosing different lines of play, which creates opportunity for reflection.

The decisions that have been hardest for me is knowing when to play Chained to the Rock. Should I play it early and get early damage through or hang onto it for later threats? Watching your videos has helped me get a better handle on this.

In regards to holding chained, i think depends on your hand and your opponent. Do you have burn to remove their t2 wall? Do you have answer to a turn 4 DD or Stormbreath? In my top 4 jund match, I had a Chained in my hand since opener. Once I realized I couldnt remove his Ooze, I decided to chained it.

My favorite plays from this past weekends IQ are swinging a Phoenix into SBD, then FoTF to ping it twice and the opponent one and recur phoenix.