Ragnarok Mafia (Scum Win) Tattered Banners and Bloody Flags

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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Right, I RVS'd someone thinking that I'd draw some reactions because RVS was over. Isn't that obvious from my explanation?
Glad to know I was on-target. The town rationale is the same as what I stated about Pie.

However, the town rationale is the same as what I stated about Pie. Which means the scum rationale is to do something that others perceive as townish.

WIFOM, though, at this point. Suffice it to say IGMEOY.

Preview EDIT: Stardust made a new post. This post still applies.
I agree that it's WIFOM, and I'm glad you're able
to see that at least. I generated a good deal of info with my gambit. I don't expect that to prove I'm town, but it should at least prove that there's a possible town mindset in my first post. I'm happy with the results at least. Though I suppose that'll change if I do get lynched after all...
҉

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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:08 pm

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase
Who is this directed at?
you
Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.
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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:27 pm

I did comment on Pie's "assumptions", and I think they're much different than what you're doing. His play has been a WIFOM-laden mess which I'm not likely to forget, but it's a mess I can't yet read. I still think I've got a decent read on you.
You call imopen2 a strong scum read in your second post with this support:
-not voting for you earlier (addressed)
-you saying that any read on rcw is awful
-"You're not voting me to scum hunt, you're tunneling already. Only scum could do that this early on" (clarified by you to mean over-confidence)

so then I check imopen's posts to see if he's tunneling you, and I don't see it. I think his confidence in you being scum is pro-town. I also think his posts have been
insightful and while occasionallly speculative, are not unjustifiable. (#54, #70).

---

Also, the following quote is a scumslip. You are admitting to trying to act town.
I figured this was fairly safe since they both align with my standard town MO
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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:28 pm

Unvote

I'm reading through the thread and saw that Stardust got within hammer range overnight. I've only posted once during RVS so I'm going to catch up before casting a real vote.

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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:32 pm

unvote votestardust
unvote stardust claims he's at l-2, true?
Was this a test for double-voters? You vote me based on one of the first posts in this thread, then unvote me 1 minute later based on one of the last posts in this thread. That's too fast.
Also, the following quote is a scumslip. You are admitting to trying to
act town.
I figured this was fairly safe since they both align with my standard town MO
Not acting. Making sure my gambit is believable enough from town me. That's pretty important.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:33 pm

Actually, rezombad, could you case me please?
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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:53 pm

Making sure my gambit is believable enough from town me. That's pretty important.
Theres your case.
My vote probably isnt moving today.
You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.
I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:03 pm

:rolleyes:

Remember the last time you said that your vote wasn't moving off of me? What did I flip? You can't read me, rezombad. I'd still like a full case from you.

I think I'm starting to understand why Kaze got so frustrated with you guys in Bioshock. You just latch onto something and don't give a second thought (except to confirm your bias).
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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:05 pm

:rolleyes:

Remember the last time you said that your vote wasn't moving off of me? What did I flip? You can't read me, rezombad. I'd still like a full case from you.

I think I'm starting to understand why Kaze got so frustrated with you guys in Bioshock. You just latch onto something and don't give a second thought (except to confirm your bias).
Please dont discuss ongoing games.
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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:06 pm

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase
Who is this directed at?
you
Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.
"he's not confirmed town but
he's probably town" or something like that

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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:07 pm

unvote votestardust
unvote stardust claims he's at l-2, true?
Was this a test for double-voters? You vote me based on one of the first posts in this thread, then unvote me 1 minute later based on one of the last posts in this thread. That's too fast.
Also, the following quote is a scumslip. You are admitting to trying to act town.
I figured this was fairly safe since they both align with my standard town MO
Not acting. Making sure my gambit is believable enough from town me. That's pretty important.
:jerk:

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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:08 pm

Yanni, do you think of stardust saying he is trying to make his posts sound like they are coming from a townie?
You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.
I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:09 pm

unvote votestardust
unvote stardust claims he's at l-2, true?
Was this a test for double-voters? You vote me based on one of the first posts in this thread, then unvote me 1 minute later based on one of
the last posts in this thread. That's too fast.
:jerk:
Give me more than that. I've heard you're quick, but not that quick.
҉

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Postby DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:12 pm

Color me crazy, but I'm reading Stardust as town. I'm actually thinking that votes on ham may be in order. It's a gut feeling, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:13 pm

Color me crazy, but I'm reading Stardust as town. I'm actually thinking that votes on ham may be in order. It's a gut feeling, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
What posts are you using to clear him as town?
You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.
I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.
It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:15 pm

There's not one specific post that clears him, per se, but I can see what he's doing and it looks like it comes from a town motivation.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:15 pm

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase
Who is this directed at?
you[/
quote]
Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.
"he's not confirmed town but he's probably town" or something like that
If you go re-read that, I actually said that nobody has done or said enough to warrant a confirmed town nod from me. In no way does that address his claim.

I know this is a game of reading between the lines, but that's a huge stretch.
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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:17 pm

Color me crazy, but I'm reading Stardust as town. I'm actually thinking that votes on ham may be in order. It's a gut feeling, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
What posts are you using to clear him as town?
And why ham? Gut feelings are not enough
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Postby rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:17 pm

There's not one specific post that clears him, per se, but I can see what he's doing and it looks like it comes from a town motivation.
I disagree.
because posts.
You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.
I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.
It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:21 pm

unvote
vote: imopen2


defending ham + weird justification for Stardust vote + lack of reaction to miller claim = trying to blend in surreptitiously and hope no one calls him out

ham + rcw + imopen scumteam, gg game broken.
unvote
vote: imopen2


defending ham + weird justification for Stardust vote + lack of reaction to miller claim = trying to blend in
surreptitiously and hope no one calls him out

ham + rcw + imopen scumteam, gg game broken.
wow, more assumptive than I thought. I wouldn't need to defend ham if you weren't making unfounded accusations against him. there's nothing "weird" about my stardust vote, and I recognized your miller claim. "dokay" means I don't believe you.

your scumteam reads are terrible. care to explain them? it might be fun
I'd like to draw attention to the quoted exchange between Pie and imopen from page 2. In the first quote, Pie accuses imopen of defending me, but imopen had done no such thing. He didn't even mention me.

Then imopen says he wouldn't need to defend me if Pie wasn't making unfounded accusations. But yet I still don't see anyone actually defending me.

What's going on here? It looks scummy the way they're arguing and making inferences about each other over something that hasn't happened.

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Postby TubeHunter » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:26 pm

I want to hear from ham ASAP as well

My words, for reference.
Last edited by TubeHunter on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:27 pm

Stardust votes rcw for always being scum or w/e
ham votes Stardust
???
scumbuddies!
So your a miller, that could mean any number of things, what is there to discuss about it?
um... is there an alternative Miller that you've played with before or something?
this is very assumptive of you. votes on stardust are legit until he returns and answers our questions

Unvote, Vote Stardust[/
b]


Miller, huh? Dokay...



Ham, this is what pie was referring to. I used "defending" because that was the word pie chose but I agree that it is way too strong. I was simply saying that he was making a lot of assumptions about you and rcw based on very little evidence.
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
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TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!

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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 pm

His vote on me in the following post reads a lot more like retaliation than your vote for stardust reads as a defense of your scumbuddy rcw
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!

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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 pm

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: hamfactorial, imopen2, Kazekirimaru, rcwraspy, Slowpoke, TubeHunter, zemanjaski and 0 guests

I love the activity. You got anything for us, Z?
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!

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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:31 pm

I want to hear from ham ASAP as well

Rcw: what do you think of yanni ATM? Town or no?

Pedit:ham, what do you think of stardust? How about z?
I'd like to hear from YOU, tube. You haven't said anything in 2 pages.
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!

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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Rcw: what do you think of yanni ATM? Town or no?
To be honest I'm asking myself the same question. His logic/reading is off atm, but that doesn't mean the motives are bad. He's null right now but if he continues to make stuff up (about me or anybody else) that'll change.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:35 pm

Is it your normal style to post no analysis and just parrot what others say Tubehunter? You're yet to make a substantive post in this thread. Actual analysis please.

Aside: I'm noticing a lot of posts with friendly language towards me now, or subtle encouragement. Don't think that will work.

For now Stardust is null to me; seen stuff that goes both ways.

[pedit]@imopen2 I do have more but it's 530am and pip's not happy I'm on my phone. I've made notes overnight, will post when I can get to a computer.
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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:40 pm

Is it your normal style to post no analysis and just parrot what others say Tubehunter? You're yet to make a substantive post in this thread. Actual analysis please.

Aside: I'm noticing a lot of posts with friendly language towards me now, or subtle encouragement. Don't think that will work.

For now Stardust is null to me; seen stuff that goes both ways.

[pedit]@imopen2 I do have more but it's 530am and pip's not happy I'm on my phone. I've made notes overnight, will post when I can get to a computer.
I look forward to your notes
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Postby DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:40 pm

Actually, totally veering off my former line of thinking. I'm making a meta vote here
unvote
vote tubehunter
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Is it your normal style to post no analysis and just parrot what others say Tubehunter? You're yet to make a substantive post in this thread. Actual analysis please.
He did that fairly frequently in Kaze's Newbie Mafia. He was town in that game.
For now Stardust is null to me; seen stuff that goes both ways.
Stuff? I like stuff. What stuff?
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Postby Kazekirimaru » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:47 pm

Fun fact: Up until Pie first voted, there were 8 different people with 1 vote each!
Hinting at a double-voter...? What do you guys think?
Don't have a computer at the moment so ill take notes and write questions tomorrow. In the meantime I will answer questions put to me.
Why do you stall so much?
All voting needs to stop until we hear from Stardust.
He's in claimrange and we shouldn't
vote him anymore until he talks, you say? :rolleyes:
Actually, guys, I have to admit I like what Pie is doing. Not enough to call him confirmed town - nobody's done/said enough for that yet - but he's certainly getting the ball rolling. The town mindset here is that he's poking at everybody to see who flinches in a way he and other town don't like. Right now he's scumhunting more than most. The scum mindset here is that he's throwing mud on everybody to see what sticks to get a wagon going. And oh look, we have one on Stardust. Which brings me back to #2, above ^^
Last I checked "throwing mud around and seeing what sticks" was a scum-mindset.
Stardust remarking on his role is null; he does this as both alignments.
First up, the only game on this site that I've been scum was KNM. I said nothing about a role there (and claimed vanilla). As far as I can recall, the only time I've ever said anything about my role was when I replaced into Bioshock (where I was town). So what are you basing that comment on?
You've done it in games on Sally, too. I think. Right? ._.

Have I mentioned I suck at this meta thing?
Anyhow, Stardust, if you agree James sounds odd, why are you RVSing instead of voting him?
Partly because RVS is fun, partly because I get the feeling zeman's going to stay involved no matter what (so I can wait to get more info rather than push a weak wagon), partly because I wanted to give rcw something to respond to, and partly because I wanted to see who would call me on that post (and how they did so). That last bit was obviously more effective than I expected, though the whole "RVS is anti-town" was glossed over much more than I expected. I figured you, Kaze, would be going after me for that in particular.
My vote is on you, is it not?
In the meantime I think this is in order-

Unvote;

Vote: Stardust
Why didn't you start my wagon instead of jumping on only after it picked up steam?
You know me by now, Stardust. I voted you because wagon! <3
rezombad is town
imopen leans town
Pie is conflicted
James leans scum
Stardust is scum
The rest of you I dunno yet.

Poke some holes in my reads and see what flows out.
1) I like your read on Pie. If you want to ask me why, you have to explain why it's conflicted first.
2) Why is imopen
leaning town?
Pie is confusing me this game and I can't sort his play itself yet, but the frustration he exhibited earlier about having to repeat himself and people not blinking seemed genuine. imopen is more of a gut thing.

Why do you like James and RCW?
so you and pie are scumbuddies with Stardust and possibly zem
Y tho
Reading back, maybe it's not that obvious, so I'll elaborate on this.

My first post contained two minorly scummy things and one out of the ordinary thing in that I was commenting on my role. Those three things were all intentional with the hope of getting reactions. The first scummy thing was calling zemanjaski
scummy, then voting someone else. The second was RVS voting after RVS was over. I figured this was fairly safe since they both align with my standard town MO - 1) Wait to get more info, and 2) RVS is actually really useful. Waiting to get more info is exactly what I wanted from zemanjaski, so I was more interested in branching out to other players. The easy way to do that was to force someone to get involved by voting for them - rcw in this case, since I've played with him as scum before and thought I might stand a decent shot at reading him correctly.
Comeon, Stardust. This sounds backpedaly as fuck and you know it.

Also, the following quote is a scumslip. You are admitting to trying to act town.
I figured this was fairly safe since they both align with my standard town MO
You ARE town this game! :D

Yay townblocs are forming maybe not really~
Please dont discuss ongoing games.
Bioshock Mafia is over...?
:jerk:
Please actually play the game.

[quote="DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:12 pm":
276x3twq]Color me crazy, but I'm reading Stardust as town. I'm actually thinking that votes on ham may be in order. It's a gut feeling, but I feel pretty strongly about it.[/quote]
Tell me all about it.
Actually, totally veering off my former line of thinking. I'm making a meta vote here
unvote
vote tubehunter
Tell me all about it.
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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:48 pm

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase
Who is this directed at?
you
Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.
"he's not confirmed town but he's probably town" or something like that
If you go re-read that, I actually said that nobody has done or said enough to warrant a confirmed town nod from me. In no way does that address his claim.

I know this is a game of reading between the lines, but that's a huge stretch.
but you said you think he's town iirc

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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:48 pm

unvote votestardust
unvote stardust claims he's at l-2, true?[/
quote]
Was this a test for double-voters? You vote me based on one of the first posts in this thread, then unvote me 1 minute later based on one of the last posts in this thread. That's too fast.
:jerk:
Give me more than that. I've heard you're quick, but not that quick.
no like you're using something that is so bullshitty that's it's near artifice levels of stupid

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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:50 pm

go again,
pfffffftffffffffffftffffff
:jerk:

[quote1=]Image[/quote1]

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Postby DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:50 pm

I just don't feel that Stardust is dumb enough to act so scummy. Doesn't make sense.

RE: Tubehunter vote - In games which he is scum, he seems to lurk a lot more and make posts that keep him in favor with the herd. I'm thinking that at least putting some pressure on him now will either net us a scummer or if he somehow is town, he'll feel the need to participate more.
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Postby Yannaria » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:53 pm

rusrs.jpg

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Postby DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Yanni, shut the fuck up or say something useful.
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Postby Kazekirimaru » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:58 pm

I just don't feel that Stardust is dumb enough to act so scummy. Doesn't make sense.
That's WIFOM, brah.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:58 pm

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase
Who is this directed at?
you
Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.
"he's not confirmed town but he's probably town" or something like that
If you go re-read that, I actually said that nobody has done or said enough to warrant a confirmed town nod from me. In no way does that address his claim.

I know this is a game of reading between the lines, but that's a huge stretch.
but you said you think he's town iirc
Recall again.

Actually, here's the quote:
Actually, guys, I have to admit I like what Pie is doing. Not enough to call him
confirmed town - nobody's done/said enough for that yet - but he's certainly getting the ball rolling. The town mindset here is that he's poking at everybody to see who flinches in a way he and other town don't like. Right now he's scumhunting more than most. The scum mindset here is that he's throwing mud on everybody to see what sticks to get a wagon going. And oh look, we have one on Stardust. Which brings me back to #2, above ^^
I said I liked what he was doing. Because it was getting people to post and that leads to information.

Then I said "nobody's done/said enough for that [call him confirmed town] yet"
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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:59 pm

I want to hear from ham ASAP as well

Rcw: what do you think of yanni ATM? Town or no?

Pedit:ham, what do you think of stardust? How about z?
I don't know enough about either player to make any real assumptions based on posting behavior. Stardust confused me by talking about a town MO. He pretty quickly got up to L-2 but didn't seem concerned. Either he's super cool under pressure or he knows that a mislynch could help reveal a scummy player on day 2.

Z has clearly done a lot of reading at the mafia wiki, using terms like FOS and barn. He says this is his first game, so he's either trying to look super smart, hes naturally gifted, or he's being coached. He was concerned how quickly the votes ramped up on Stardust without hearing from
him. Any day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum, given no strong information.

I unvoted because it seemed like people were taking my RVS vote as serious. Kaze casting a serious vote seems to have added meaning to mine.


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