[Primer] PyroRed

[Zooligan]

It's really not quite as good to be honest.

Not quite as good as what? Rod of Ruin?

Fun fact: Rod of Ruin fills a specific niche in the deck, so comparing it to Gauntlet is like saying Lightning Strike is better than Last Breath. They serve totally different purposes.

Not comparing, just asking what he was comparing to... Dona be putting de words into my mouth, mang.

[magicdownunder]

I'd just say fuck it in regards to the big boros matchup. Along with committing ritual suicide for losing to Todd Anderson.

This is necessary. I will lend you my sword.

I'll take it , if wizards didn't pull the event and you saw how the match went down - you'll be saying much worst things.

Big Boros was always supposed to
be Aggro-breaker. Matchup is brutal.

Aye... thank gosh Esper and Gx hated them out during MOCS.

Yeah when a deck is <5% of the meta I just don't care if it's a bad matchup that isn't easily fixable. It's probably 35-40% anyway.

If you play DE's sometime this week (not 2-mans) you'll be in for a surprise.

2 Anger of the Gods against Mono Blue?
You become very creature-light, and that's yet another card that answers even multiple Nightveil Specters (and those draws are the scariest).
Rod of Ruin seems terrible. You'd rather play that misery Last Breath over it.

I toyed with the idea, but I proceeded to face down 3
frostburn and changed my mind

Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown, MDU. I find it fascinating, as someone still learning about deckbuilding and playing at a truly competitive level.

Now, it's very possible that I'm simply showing my ignorance here, but would a spot or two for Pithing Needle be the worst suggestion ever? In the Gr match-up it can stop Polukranos or Arbor Colossus going monstrous, and can also stop Domri or Garruk; in the MonoU match-up it stops Jace in his tracks and Thassa's unblockable ability.

Again, that might be a terrible suggestion, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

Its not horrible, naming Jace deals about 5 damage and blanks 4 cards in theory against control list (until they DS it, but that buys you time) but the issues comes with the limited
space in your SB - if we had more room sure.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You guys (should/may know ) how I deal with MonoU based on my videos and sideboard plans, what do you guys do? Aggro them, Control them, keep 1 drops and falter them?

[Yarpus]

I'd say play RG, smash/falter them with Gruul Charm.
Card feels really good against them. Either faltering their ground army or killing multiple Specters/Raptors with single card.
PyroGrull anyone?
You even screw their Domestication. <3

[notap123]

I was poking around for some additional cheap answers for MoW and found:
Beckon Apparition

Also found an idea for G/R ramp decks:
Soul Tithe

I am digging soul tithe for G/R especially. Forcing them to reinvest in a single arbor or let it go for 1W is pretty legit. It can also hate other creatures like MoW as well as non creatures like detention sphere.

[Zooligan]

PyroGruul anyone?

Yeah, watcha thinkin it would look like?

[Keftenk]

Huh, Soul Tithe is interesting..

[Jack]

I don't think I ever remember seeing a Soul Tithe before... not even in draft. It's reasonably costed, has an effect that isn't terrible, and Dave Kendal did a superb job on the artwork.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I don't think I ever remember seeing a Soul Tithe before... not even in draft. It's reasonably costed, has an effect that isn't terrible, and Dave Kendal did a superb job on the artwork.

Had it played against me once recently. Zero fucks given.

[Pedros]

I support the fact that big boros might be a thing. I faced it 6 times in 20 matches in 2 mans and 8 - mans in 2 days. Won once only. Matchup almost unwinnable if they have nyktos.

Agro them is hard as they play 12 2 drops + reckoners. Not saying about Anger of the gods to reset a board.
Act of treason does close to nothing vs them, as Dragon comes and kills you withing 2 turns most of the time.

Meta shifted a LOT past week. Not enough esper, mono black and WW/RED

What are your opinions on Boros Burn I posted? Might be really good vs big boros, mono U as those deck dont play lifegain.

[Valdarith]

My current 75 on MODO:

[deck]
Creatures (24)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (16)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (20)
20 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Frostburn Weird
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

No Mutavaults because I'm a little bitch and won't shell out 20 tickets a pop for them.

I'm considering a white splash now for Boros Charm mainboard and Chained/Assemble postboard, but for now mono red seems to be treating me well. I destroyed Naya midrange tonight and lost 1-2 to sorta mono black devotion (white splash for something I never saw). Seems like devotion black is either running a lot more removal mainboard than they used to or I was just hilariously
unlucky in game one against him. I'm thinking the latter because there's no way they'd have any chance vs Esper running so much mainboard removal. Lost game three after Gary into Gary into Pack Rat. Just didn't get there in time and drew my Skullcrack too late.

[zemanjaski]

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... yromaster/

Constructive comments in the comments welcome.

[Pedros]

---

My [/b]current 75 on MODO:

[deck]
Creatures (24)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (16)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (20)
20 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Frostburn Weird
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

No Mutavaults because I'm a little bitch and won't shell out 20 tickets a pop for them.

I'm considering a white splash now for Boros Charm mainboard and Chained/Assemble postboard, but for now mono red seems to be treating me well. I
destroyed Naya midrange tonight and lost 1-2 to sorta mono black devotion (white splash for something I never saw). Seems like devotion black is either running a lot more removal mainboard than they used to or I was just hilariously unlucky in game one against him. I'm thinking the latter because there's no way they'd have any chance vs Esper running so much mainboard removal. Lost game three after Gary into Gary into Pack Rat. Just didn't get there in time and drew my Skullcrack too late.

20 lands only? How was it?

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ Val Looks a little land light to me.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Alright y'all, I wanna gather some thoughts...

I'm stuck using mono-red for the moment, cause manabases are expensive. My local meta, however, has a good bit of midrange (some 3 color control/midrange, some normal midrange), and as a generic pyrored list, I'm having some problems overcoming it.

What do you all recommend to help deal with them? Switching up from ash zealot (with pyrewild) to the bte/firefist striker style? And what about additional burn? Should I have mainboard mortars to deal with smiters and lions?

I also seem to be having manaflood problems, so I'm thinking of dropping to 21 lands(with only 1 mutavault, cause again, money...) But I digress, any thoughts?

[vundo]

Ok I posted about U/W Control before but got no definitive responses.
In the past 2 days, my most played matchup has been Cuneo's UW control. I'm not sure if they've just been getting lucky but UW has been significantly tougher than esper.
They don't have shocklands, they have Last Breath in lieu of black removal (which isn't even very good against us), and have access to fiendslayer paladin. Now, I'm not a fan of paladin in control decks but if you combo them with Jace, AoT, they're fairly obnoxious.

I currently bring in 3 skullcracks and 2 charms. I don't know if I need more sb tech, play differently, or just try to ignore the matchup.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Ok I posted about U/W Control before but got no definitive responses.
In the past 2 days, my most played matchup has been Cuneo's UW control. I'm not sure if they've just been getting lucky but UW has been significantly tougher than esper.
They don't have shocklands, they have Last Breath in lieu of black removal (which isn't even very good against us), and have access to fiendslayer paladin. Now, I'm not a fan of paladin in control decks but if you combo them with Jace, AoT, they're fairly obnoxious.

I currently bring in 3 skullcracks and 2 charms. I don't know if I need more sb tech, play differently, or just try to ignore the matchup.

U/W is tougher than esper.

[Keftenk]

Nice article, Z!

[Yarpus]

Yeah, watcha thinkin it would look like?

For sure I'd use BTE variant as BTE not only helps against MonoB but also helps fixing your manabase for green spells.
Green mostly gives you SB options. Gruul Charm, Destructive Revelry (fun fact, it recurs your Chandra's Phoenix!) and maybe Ground Assault.
I'd toy with Warrior's Lesson here as it's 1-mana Divination in decks like that as long as you don't get stalled.

[F.I.A]

You know what is awesome about [card]Titan's Strength[/card] today? I had Ashley on guard with [mana]r[/mana]. My opponent casted Unflinching Courage on his Centaur Healer, and swung in.

Courage is nothing against the strength of a titanness* (2-0).

* - She insisted

[zemanjaski]

I tried it and it went like this:

Him: Cackler, go
Me: Cackler, go
Him: land, pass
Me: go to combat...
Him: Magma Jet your Cackler
Me: Titan's Strength

That's a pretty brutal 1-for-1. I'm starting to like it as a 1-of, maybe a 2-of.

[Zooligan]

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... yromaster/

Constructive comments in the comments welcome.

Great article James!

Downside is now when i vacillate betwixt the DtR version of Big Boros to Walter White, I'll get accused of netdecking (which, of course, I am, but that's not a bad thing)

[LaZerBurn]

U/W is tougher than esper.

Seconded. That said the strategy is the same and on paper you should be fine with Crack and Charm

[LaZerBurn]

You guys (should/may know ) how I deal with MonoU based on my videos and sideboard plans, what do you guys do? Aggro them, Control them, keep 1 drops and falter them?

I've tried both Aggro and Control, unsuccessfully Whenever I face the deck they routinely get a good draw (which isn't hard as so many of their cards are good against us) and I lose more to the synergy of their deck than MOW in particular; I've had my Chains bounced, my whole board bounced, my Reckoners turned into boars ... when I first watched one of your vids and the U
player didn't curve out perfectly I was actually surprised!

I keep coming back to splashing Black instead of White - you do lose Scrylands but I think Dreadbore is better than Chains and you get your pick of spot removal for all the mid range match ups. I'm not suggesting any other splashes here - Spike Jester, Tymaret etc , just the spot removal.

[Keftenk]

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... yromaster/

Constructive comments in the comments welcome.

Great article James!

Downside is now when i vacillate betwixt the DtR version of Big Boros to Walter White, I'll get accused of netdecking (which, of course, I am, but that's not a bad thing)

Our nice little kept "secret" is no more ;;

[F.I.A]

I tried it and it went like this:

Him: Cackler, go
Me: Cackler, go
Him: land, pass
Me: go to combat...
Him: Magma Jet your Cackler
Me: Titan's Strength

That's a pretty brutal 1-for-1. I'm starting to like it as a 1-of, maybe a 2-of.

It's still not good enough until you lived the dream in pumping up a Rakdos Cackler during upkeep, topdecking an Ashley to take down a tapped out Jace at loyalty 5. Anyway, good to see you liking it, and nice article on CFB as well.

You guys (should/may know ) how I deal with MonoU based on my videos and sideboard plans, what do you guys do? Aggro them, Control them, keep 1 drops and falter them?

Game 2 and Game 3, I will play control as I stated in earlier post by keeping a hand of removals. By removals, I mean cheap ones and not a hand like 3 Flames of the Firebrand (Which will get you mauled). I have played a little too many games where my creature got tapped by a Tidebinder Mage, so walling tactics with Ashley/Phoenix won't work on them. You can, however, play Pyro as usual and net yourself a few tokens as you blow the opposition. While yes, tokens are bad against Jace, but I've played games where I am able to show blue mages that we can swarm as well (5 1/1s is still a mob).

[Valdarith]

---

My [/b]current 75 on MODO:

[deck]
Creatures (24)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (16)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (20)
20 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Frostburn Weird
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

No Mutavaults because I'm a little bitch and won't shell out 20 tickets a pop for
them.

I'm considering a white splash now for Boros Charm mainboard and Chained/Assemble postboard, but for now mono red seems to be treating me well. I destroyed Naya midrange tonight and lost 1-2 to sorta mono black devotion (white splash for something I never saw). Seems like devotion black is either running a lot more removal mainboard than they used to or I was just hilariously unlucky in game one against him. I'm thinking the latter because there's no way they'd have any chance vs Esper running so much mainboard removal. Lost game three after Gary into Gary into Pack Rat. Just didn't get there in time and drew my Skullcrack too late.

20 lands only? How was it?

20 lands has been great. If I were running Mutavault it'd be 21 land (19 Mountain and 2 Mutavault) but 20 has been exactly the right number with running only two Chandra. That said, I'm considering going back up to three Chandra. It's basically a tension
between four Firefist Striker or three Strikers and an extra Chandra. The fourth Striker increases my chance of explosive starts but the third Chandra gives me big game against midrange decks.

[Elricity]

What are your opinions on Boros Burn I posted? Might be really good vs big boros, mono U as those deck dont play lifegain.

I've been playing a more burn heavy varient of Pyromancer build and was shifting over to creatures (if my trade in the mail with 1 drops hadn't been stuck since 10/30). I had skipped on toil/trouble but I guess I see it's value. I didn't like all the card choices but then I didn't test the original build. Here's what I'd like to try:

[deck]
Land 22
9 mountain
4 sacred foundry
4 blood crypt
4 temple of triumph
1 godless shrine

Creature 8
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Others 3
2 Chained to the rocks
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet

Burn 27
4 boros charm
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet
4 shock
3
toil // trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard

2 Chained to the rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
1 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros reckoner
2 Spark Trooper[/deck]

The original build in the other thread had no Chandra in the 75 and 4 MD chains with 13 "mountains" and some other choices that I just found questionable. I'm not sold on the Spark Troopers but I understand why the deck wanted several sources of life gain.

Criticisms? I'm worried it gives up too much against control without getting enough back versus midrange. Trying to think through the sideboard plan now.

[Narcasus]

how much would burning earth hurt you when you are running 13 dual lands yourself. Maybe you just dont care in the matchups you would play it in anyway.

[Elricity]

I'm assuming that's the idea from the original build that used it. I think the life gain cards are supposed to offset it as well. The original sideboard had 4 spark troopers to bring in as well 4 chained to pull out.

I'm not great at planning space in my sideboards so keep that in mind. -2 chained, -2 FotF, -4 shock for +2 mortar (BBV/Stormbreath), +2 Chandra, +2 Burning Earth, +2 Spark (living the boros charm dream) would be my guess for Esper or Dega. I'm not familiar enough with the Naya build to say what to do there.

Mainboarding 2 Chandra and pushing more Helix to the side might be the right idea but I'm pretty sure this build is going for an explosive quick finish with the Trouble shenanigans (original build ran 4).

Since I keep referencing it, here's the original deck Pedros was talking about. viewtopic.php?f=108&t=1948

---

[deck]9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

4 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
27 Burn

Sideboard
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Boros Reckoner
2 Burning Earth
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Spark Trooper
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

[Platypus]

Congrats on getting published, Z! It was a great read, as always.

[MattT]

Gratz on the publishing Zem. You sure love the deck!

[FullofGravy]

Haha, netdecking comments will be amusing this weekend when I travel to the capital for a £2k.

Anyways I should have a better sideboard this week. Notably though seen a lot of people tracking down MU Devotion cards in the country very recently. Still not sure whether to find space for that Rod of Ruin!

[Pedros]

Today in 2 mn queues i played interestng grull based agro.

It played mountains, mutavaults, all duals, phoenixes, chandra, all burn - even flames so basicly h our shell.

However it had: xenagos, mistcutter hydra, clan's defiance - it was extremely good deck. I played 3 games, however am almost sure hydra was in main.

Does green splash helps us the same way chain to the rocks does? Mostly vs mono u and agressiv deck.

[zemanjaski]

There isn't a green spell that kills master, and the green cards are worse against mono black. Otherwise it's probably pretty even.

[LaZerBurn]

Mistcutter and Skylasher would be very nice to have in the deck for a certain match up You get scrylands too and these are all pretty cheap on MTGO. Tempted to try it

[Yarpus]

I've already mentioned that today.
Gruul Charm is good against Mono Blue. Probably good enough to not give a fuck about deck not being able to kill the master. You break their Domestication, render token army unable to block or kill multiple Nightveil Specters. Ezypezy.
Black is tougher tho. I'd say you have to outsmart the opponent with Bloodrush guys if you play them (I'd do 2 Pyrewild 4 Ghor-Clan in this shell - pumping tokens creates lots of hard decisions for your opponent).
And Destructive Revelry which recurs Chandra's Phoenix. That's fucking hilarious.
Clan Defiance seems a bit too mana-heavy, but the potential 3for1 is stronk.

[Helios]

I like splashing white for Chained to the Rocks. It deals with pretty much everything, and gives you excellent sideboard options.

[Yarpus]

Removal is not always what you exactly need.
Sometimes you are just playing games where you can't deal with certain creature but you are still winning.
Remember that Red historically was never that good at dealing with creatures - still managed to dick the opponent.
And while MoW is pain in the ass, I'd say that those triple Nighthveil draws are much scarier and worth handling.

Still, I'm just mostly trying to poke the hole in the whole theory of PyroBoros, finding another way.
Ghor-Clan seems like a cool thing in this kind of deck.

[RaidaTheBlade]

So, with Z getting published, and the deck getting more focus/etc as a result, I sorta have a question/concern going into an IQ this weekend...

How do you play against the true mirror? What do you bring in, and what's the strategy?
And also, what about monored pyro vs walter white. How does each deck side/play against the other?

[Helios]

Raida: It still plays like most red mirrors; if you can take advantage of a Temple screwing with your opp's tempo, do it. Kill the CA and VCA engines. Don't waste removal on Phoenix unless you are getting shits of tempo for it. Eek every little bit of value out of the synergies that you can. Be aware of the things your opponent can SB in against you.

Yarpus: Well good thing we're not just splashing white for removal then. I'll play Walter White until I stop winning, and I haven't seen any convincing evidence that the other colors are providing anything better than what's there.