[Primer] PyroRed

[zemanjaski]

It's expensive but it answers any number of MoW, also spikes random x/1s; doubles up with Chandra for x/2s and Shock for x/3s. I like the idea a lot.

[Keftenk]

Do you think it has just as much use against Mono White?
They also run a ton of x/1's, or in this case would FotF still be better because none of Mono White's creatures have Pro Red?

[magicdownunder]

Do you think it has just as much use against Mono White?
They also run a ton of x/1's, or in this case would FotF still be better because none of Mono White's creatures have Pro Red?

No, its too slow for white weenie - they'll resolved a walker or enchantment by the time you cast and activate it.

Its good vs Red AIR and BR though.

[zemanjaski]

Just like Chandra, locks them out of the game I imagine?

[magicdownunder]

Just like Chandra, locks them out of the game I imagine?

Nah, G2+G3 they side-out a few x/1 guys in favor for Fiendslayer Paladin and a removal suit/defense suit, you get lesser targets and have to race to hit your Rod before they hit Spear of Heliod or Ajani - assuming your only running 1x Rod its not a good race.

[Keftenk]

Hate that Paladin so much...lol

[windstrider]

Regarding Rod of Ruin: what goes around comes around, eh? I ran it in some of the first decks I ever built playing this game. Repeatable ping on a stick. Great little intimidation tactic to leave it out with all the x/1s running around.

Edit: As for Paladin, how many answers do we have for that thing? Zealot and Reckoner both kill it. And in Walter White, you get access to Chained if it's bothering you that much or even Boros Charm for indestructibility (used it on my Cackler when he swung in with the Paladin; had the second one in hand for the Verdict later. Dude was not happy about it.).

[zemanjaski]

I meant locks out Rx and BR. I agree it sucks against WW.

Fiendslayer Pladain is awful against this variant.

[Keftenk]

Regarding Rod of Ruin: what goes around comes around, eh? I ran it in some of the first decks I ever built playing this game. Repeatable ping on a stick. Great little intimidation tactic to leave it out with all the x/1s running around.

Edit: As for Paladin, how many answers do we have for that thing? Zealot and Reckoner both kill it. And in Walter White, you get access to Chained if it's bothering you that much or even Boros Charm for indestructibility (used it on my Cackler when he swung in with the Paladin; had the second one in hand for the Verdict later. Dude was not happy about it.).

It actually isn't a -terrible- problem, its more annoying than anything. Yes, we only have Zealot, Reckoner, and Chains. I could do Boros
Charm too, but the Paladin itself usually halts the beats that I'm applying. At least since I've kept documentation on tests, tournaments, and FNM's I have a 70% win success vs Mono White. Still, I hate that paladin. I need to play a lot more vs GW though, that's a much, much, bigger issue and deal. I actually have a losing record vs it ;\ 8-13...ouch

Should I be SBing out Zealot with all my 1 drops vs GW? Just burn them in face?

[zemanjaski]

The answer to Paladin is playing well, seriously, it's not good.

[Zooligan]

The Esper folks my way side it in for red MUs. PITA

[LP, of the Fires]

fiendslayer paladin is good if you're just running small guys. He gets laughed at by chained, and pyro tokens.

[zemanjaski]

And by most double blocks.
- if they're WW you're control, so he's a 2/2 for 3...
- if they're UW control, you've running Skullcrack.

[magicdownunder]

Magic Online Championship Series 11: Final - Results

---

Magic Online Championship Series 11: Finals 7-2 (20th place, 306 star stacked players)

G1: Gr (WIN)
G2: Esper Control (WIN)
G3: Wr Weenies (Todd Anderson) (LOSS)
G4: Esper Control (WIN)
G5: Gr (WIN)
G6: Esper Control (Luis Scott-Vargas) (WIN)
G7: MonoBlue Devotion (LOSS)
G8: MonoBlack Devotion (WIN)
G9: Esper
Control (WIN)

VIDEO REPORT, and DECK-LIST + SIDEBOARDS and PLANS coming tomorrow.

I couldn't record the MOCS11 because wizards pulled down the event and offer a rematch for everyone with 5 win during the conclusion of game seven.

But here was my MOCS11 list:

[deck=MDU's PyroWhite]Lands 22
11 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault

Creatures 22
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Firefist Striker
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 02
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Sorceries 01
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Act of Treason
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

I credit the deck too: Zemanjaski for the decks core, F.I.A[/b:
2f7r04ms] and Platypus for the Rod of Ruin suggestion, Yarpus for Pyrewild Shaman, Vundo for the greedy 3 vaults + 11 mountain plan and all the poor sobs during the DEs.

Main Deck: Card Choices

Burning-Tree Emissary over Ash Zealot because I expected a meta with G/x and MonoU

3/2/1 split with Young Pyromancer, Firefist Striker and Pyrewild Shaman again to deal with G/x and MonoU

Why Pyrewild Shaman and Flame of the Firebrand MD? Provides 6 answers against Spectors and allows for blow outs.

Sideboard: Card Choices

Rod of Ruin was my secret tech which I withheld
from videos and discussion until yesterday as my answer to MoW, I only run one because I don't want to draw the card early - I figured with all the scry and Chandra the card will come when i need it.

Act of Treason was primary for big RW which I never saw, it doesn't do anything against Junk or Gx despite what other may believe.

The other cards are self-explanatory.

Sideboard Plan

Gx Devotion

---

Gx Devotion:

In:
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis

Out:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Explanation:
Your 1 drops all get outclassed on T2, you need to spend the first few turns cleaning out manadorks.
Tokens are worthless when Nylea God of the Hunt resolves, on that same note Nylea God of the Hunt also makes defending Chandra
near impossible 4xx for 1 dmg and falter isn't good.

Esper Control

---

Esper Control

in:
2 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars

Out:
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Explanation:
Blood Baron is a real threat, so mortars replace chains - Tokens are worthless with Jace and Sweepers so Young Pyromancer gets a cut, while Flame of the Firebrand is much too slow.
I Keep shock in this MU so I can target my own Chandra's Phoenix vs Detention Sphere.

MonoBlue Devotion

---

MonoBlue Devotion

In:
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Rod of Ruin

Out:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer

Explanation:
1 drops are outclassed by everything, Jace likes your Tokens.

MonoBlack Devotion

---

MonoBlack Devotion

In:
2 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the
Rocks
2 Act of Treason

Out:
3 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Explanation:
Shock does nothing, Magma Jet does next too nothing.

Wr Weenies

---

Wr Weenies (how did i lose this MU, I know I missed played R1 and mulled to 5 R2 on the play)

In:
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis

Out:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Firefist Striker

Wizard invited me back for a 2nd chance due to all the errors during MOCS11 on Sunday (Sat for most you folk) I no longer have the need to hide tech so I'll love to get some community input on what 75 I should take and why?

I don't feel the need to change my 60, but my sideboards need work. I'm going to do away with my conditional finishers Act of Treason and Fanatic of Mogis and opt for an additional Skullcrack and Last breath to complement my Rod - all that left is to
decide on a non-conditional finishers: choices are Stormbreath Dragon, Boros Charm, Warleader helix and Spark Trooper what are your thoughts guys?

EDIT: whoops: i forgot you mention it first @_@ Platypus

[Yarpus]

2 Anger of the Gods against Mono Blue?
You become very creature-light, and that's yet another card that answers even multiple Nightveil Specters (and those draws are the scariest).
Rod of Ruin seems terrible. You'd rather play that misery Last Breath over it.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I think those cards are good in different m/u's. Dragon is great vs UW and decent vs Esper. Not great vs black. Charm is good vs u/w, esper , and great against mono black. Warleader's Helix is good vs aggro and decent vs midrange. Not much of a factor vs control. Spark Trooper is good vs aggro decks without first strike. Might lead to so wtf wins vs control. I think helix is just better.

[Helios]

Thanks for the share MDU, gonna sleep now and thoughts in the morning.

JS I don't mean to be a dick but can you please not quote giant posts, especially when you're only commenting on a specific part of them? You do it a lot and it makes the thread so much harder to read.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Thanks for the share MDU, gonna sleep now and thoughts in the morning.

JS I don't mean to be a dick but can you please not quote giant posts, especially when you're only commenting on a specific part of them? You do it a lot and it makes the thread so much harder to read.

Sorry man. On my phone at work and it's basically impossible to cut abd paste tge relevant bits. I'll try to just reply in line.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'll post tomorrow after I've slept. The most important piece of info though is which matchup(s) do you think need the most work and go from there. FWIW, I like stormbreath or more mortars vs. G/R devotion and while boros charm is a fantastic magic card, I think you're good enough in the matchups where you'd bring it in.

I'm also unsure of how necessary mortars is vs. esper. I was always of the opinion that you could just go underneath a blood baron and just chandra/burn them out of a game once he came down. Stormbreath/charm would be a better option if you add those imo, though if you add stormbreath, you'd probably want to add an extra land somewhere.

[Platypus]

F.I.A for the Rod of Ruin suggestion

Aww...I like to think I've contributed at least something to this thread...

[zemanjaski]

@ LP, yeah I don't bring in Mortars vs. Esper. It's usually easier to win through a Blood Baron via indirect means than to bank on having a Mortars. Skullcrack is a house.

[magicdownunder]

I'll post tomorrow after I've slept. The most important piece of info though is which matchup(s) do you think need the most work and go from there. FWIW, I like stormbreath or more mortars vs. G/R devotion and while boros charm is a fantastic magic card, I think you're good enough in the matchups where you'd bring it in.

I'm also unsure of how necessary mortars is vs. esper. I was always of the opinion that you could just go underneath a blood baron and just chandra/burn them out of a game once he came down. Stormbreath/charm would be a better option if you add those imo, though if you add stormbreath, you'd probably want to add an extra land somewhere.

My biggest concern is MonoU followed by Big R/RW (not that I seen any Big R/RW
during MOCS11) now in regards to Mortars vs Esper, sometimes you draw your 1 drops, 2 drops, 3 drops and just run them over, other times you gas out early from the string of counters and removal (it happens) when it does I have mortar ready for Blood Baron.

I don't think its a healthy plan to always believe everything will work out, which is why I opt for a plan B when things go wrong.

[F.I.A]

2. I'm not really a fan of 'tech' cards like Titan's Strength or Pyrewild; but I do respect the random blowouts (as I do run a singleton Flames maindeck, but that has a more broad application); I can't imagine running three Titan Strength! So clunky in multiples.

I go with three because I want to make sure I can draw to test it. It has been doing great, but I suppose you can take out one to bring back Shock in main and one more Flames of the Firebrand in the sideboard.

1) You don't want 3x [card]Titan's Strength[/card]
MD, your meta would require to have primarily Gx and MonoU to get value from it, otherwise when AoG or WoG comes down and your back on top-deck mode you'll be in a very bad top-deck position. If you are going run them 1/1-2 split MD/SB at most.

By AoG or WoG, is it Anger of the Gods or Wrath of God (Verdict, in standard)? With Mutavault, you shouldn't have problem getting a creature out. Yes, while it's risky, that 1-mana for 3 damage reach can be insane, especially in multiples.

For example, there was this game against Esper where I only had a Rakdos Cackler and a Mutavault, and I had two [card]Titan's Strength[/card] in hand. My opponent was at 14 life. I sent those two to attack, and he responded with a Doom Blade on the mutavault. I promptly casted a TS, tucked a land, and
casted another to ensure a Phoenix on top of the library. That combat phase reduced my opponent down to 6 life, and he casted a Detention Sphere on the cackler.

Yes, I could easily replicate a similar scenario with just a single Magma Jet, but my opponent would be at 10 life instead, so he wouldn't be forced to use the sphere on the cackler (Which could have exiled my phoenix, which I later recurred with a Lightning Strike).

2) 4x Mortars is too much against MBC, I'll recommend keeping 2x Flames of the Firebrand and going 2x Mortars - I had a number of games against MBD where the 3 dmg to dome is critical or when they have two Pack Rats in play...

I suppose so, but I really hate the 3-mana cost on Flames at times. That 1 mana can actually decide whether a Mutavault can join in the assault or not. Though I'll certainly consider this.

3) Big R/RW, not sure
you want [card]Titan's Strength[/card] here - they pack 4x AoG and heaps of spot removal - so top-deck mode is quite common, I actually like Rakdos Cackler in this MU because Big R/RW has such a strong late game, I usually don't want them to hit that point, that said I'm running the version with chains for Mr. Rec.

I keep TS because I don't have anything better to bring in. They actually help to prevent a burn by pumping a +1 toughness (Rarely happen, but when it does, it's great)

4) Is AoT really helping you against Gx? I feel like it read pay three and kill a manadork.

What I will hate to see is a Arbor Colossus guarding their fort against my phoenix. And when they don't have him, they will try to race you, and that's when AoT shines by recruiting that newly casted fatty into your group.

Lastly, I want to say thanks for recommending [card]Rod of Ruin[/card:
2jcmjtvi] all those pages ago - I'm sorry I dismissed it then. (I've been testing it since last week and had the pleasure of watching one of my Opp. concede and flash me a hand with two MoW.)

You're welcome. It's dang great to school them with the card. My opponent actually has to pause to see the 7th edition old card I use. Though I'm not too fond on having just one of them. It's just me, but 1 out of 60 just seems impossible, and you really want it when facing monoblue.

[Pedros]

Magic Online Championship Series 11: Final - Results

---

Magic Online Championship Series 11: Finals 7-2 (20th place, 306 star stacked players)

[deck=MDU's PyroWhite]Lands 22
11 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault

Creatures 22
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Firefist Striker
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 02
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Sorceries 01
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Act of Treason
1 Rod of
Ruin[/deck]

[deck]Pedros deviation[/deck]

I playtested this deck quite a lot after talking to MDU (I guessed some ratios and sb plans almost perfectly what I am happy about) and played it in some matches. This is my results:

Deck Name Win Lost
UG Devo 1 0
Mono Red 4 5
Mono Blue 2 0
Mono Black 7 3
Esper Control 3 0
RG Nelson 0 1
RB Agro
1 0
Big Boros 1 3
Dega Control 3 0
Bg Control 2 2
Wx Wheenie 1 1
Naya Control 1 0
Bant Krupnik 1 0
Naya agro 0 1
Mono B Agro 1 0
UWR control 0 2
RUG Ramp 1 0
UB Master control 1 1
Junk 1 0
GW Agro 0 1
Bg Agro 0 1
UW Control 0 1

Note that 7 looses came yestaday to destroy my ration (31:22 now, was 29:15). Red had 4 reckoners. GW had double god's willing and s. charm to protects smiter with courage. WW had 2 protection spells.

Notice some bad red matchups. I still think I am favorable, however sometimes draws are impossible to do anything (like 4 reckoners draw)

I am happy with my mono U matchup ration (3:1), while not happy with UW, UWR, big Boros and Bg control (reaper of the wilds anyone? Days of desecration demons are over. And Chain is only temporary answer as they have abrupt decay to 3:2 us).


@MDU

Wow I never knew I was so close to your deck after talking (and
you even told me playing 19 mountains with reckoner is too gready!!)

@All

Hope you can help me tweek this deck even more for GP Wienna. Or would you suggest to get me other deck? I have most of the cards IRL/Modo and a lot of friends to borrow cards from to test.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I don't think its a healthy plan to always believe everything will work out, which is why I opt for a plan B when things go wrong.

I'm with you here. Mortars is also useful against Elspeth in a pinch.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Random build that I wanted thoughts on. It's basically taking the pyrored idea and adding in tymaret and a tiny bit of draw..

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Pack Rat
4 Tymaret, the Murder King (Burger King!)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Desecration Demon

Spells:
4 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
4 Read The Bones
2 Thoughtseize

Enchantments:
1 Whip of Erebos

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Mutavault
6 Mountains
5 Swamps
[/deck]

Like I said, just a random little idea.

[Helios]

JS- easiest way is to say "@MDU:" and then we get it Thanks man.

[MattT]

Random build that I wanted thoughts on. It's basically taking the pyrored idea and adding in tymaret and a tiny bit of draw..

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Pack Rat
4 Tymaret, the Murder King (Burger King!)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Desecration Demon

Spells:
4 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Strike
4 Read The Bones
2 Thoughtseize

Enchantments:
1 Whip of Erebos

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Mutavault
6 Mountains
5 Swamps
[/deck]

Like I said, just a random little idea.

Tymaret is alright. He´s ca and damage at a low cost which goes well alongside the low curve of the deck. They try to spot remove Zealot, you sac it for 2 damage. They try to detention
Sphere your YP, you sac it and recur a Tymaret. He saves burn on hand and just keeps coming back. Fits nice with the incremental ca strategy of the deck imho.

I´m trying PyroBlack myself, but with less changes than you from the basic slower 3 Chandra shell. +2 Tymarets, -1 YP, -1 Cackler, +1 Dreadbore, +1 Doom Blade.

[soebek]

I don't feel the need to change my 60, but my sideboards need work. I'm going to do away with my conditional finishers Act of Treason and Fanatic of Mogis and opt for an additional Skullcrack and Last breath to complement my Rod - all that left is to decide on a non-conditional finishers: choices are Stormbreath Dragon, Boros Charm, Warleader helix and Spark Trooper what are your thoughts guys?

Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown, MDU. I find it fascinating, as someone still learning about deckbuilding and playing at a truly competitive level.

Now,
it's very possible that I'm simply showing my ignorance here, but would a spot or two for Pithing Needle be the worst suggestion ever? In the Gr match-up it can stop Polukranos or Arbor Colossus going monstrous, and can also stop Domri or Garruk; in the MonoU match-up it stops Jace in his tracks and Thassa's unblockable ability.

Again, that might be a terrible suggestion, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

[Elricity]

I don't feel the need to change my 60, but my sideboards need work. I'm going to do away with my conditional finishers Act of Treason and Fanatic of Mogis and opt for an additional Skullcrack and Last breath to complement my Rod - all that left is to decide on a non-conditional finishers: choices are Stormbreath Dragon, Boros Charm, Warleader helix and Spark Trooper what are your thoughts guys?

Spark Trooper is unfortunately a much easier to counter helix right now. It's only payoff is to push through FFS. It had some more (admittedly janky) synergies
last season in boros.

I'm so far out of the MODO metagame it's not funny but if it's Mono U and Big RW, Helix isn't going to clear what you wanted to kill and it's a bit slow for the rest anyway unless you're playing the lifegain race. And I love boros charm but it's only mildly helpful as a counterspell vs R and useless versus U. Stormbreath is probably your best plan if you think you can make it to 5 mana and it'll close out the game.

Although, here's an awful idea...Angelic Edict answers everything but enemy dragons that you're worried about in both matches. You've said you don't want to see multiple rods since they're redundant after the first and if you're considering the 5 drop anyway...I guess the question is could a lategame spot removal actually help?

In RW, it would clear Reckoner, Phoenix, and Assemble effectively. In U, it gets Thassa (in either mode), Bident, MoW.

[Zooligan]

Weren't some folks running [card]Pyromancer's Gauntlet[/card] a few weeks ago? That seems pretty good, giving all your red direct damage +2. That could be a good hard to remove 5 drop with immediate benefits.

[Elricity]

I still am. It's fun but it's for a much more controlling build than one that runs 1 drops.

It's really not quite as good to be honest.

[Zooligan]

It's really not quite as good to be honest.

Not quite as good as what? Rod of Ruin?

[Elricity]

Pyromancer's Gauntlet plus extra burn isn't quite as good as 8 1 drops in your 75.

If you have enough burn, it typically ends a game in about 2-3 turns but there's only so many cards to fit in.

Also, it is just too slow versus the big boros and U matchups that MDU is worried about.

[Helios]

It's really not quite as good to be honest.

Not quite as good as what? Rod of Ruin?

Fun fact: Rod of Ruin fills a specific niche in the deck, so comparing it to Gauntlet is like saying Lightning Strike is better than Last Breath. They serve totally different purposes.

[Elricity]

If we get a bit more useful burn, Gauntlet shenanigans could swerve the deck into a weird transformation direction similar to what MDU tried with Fanatic of Mogis. The burn has to be useful enough independently of Gauntlet first though.

I just realized I want Thunderbolt to be legal. Huh.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd just say fuck it in regards to the big boros matchup. Along with committing ritual suicide for losing to Todd Anderson.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah when a deck is <5% of the meta I just don't care if it's a bad matchup that isn't easily fixable. It's probably 35-40% anyway.

[Yarpus]

Big Boros was always supposed to be Aggro-breaker. Matchup is brutal.

[Helios]

I'd just say fuck it in regards to the big boros matchup. Along with committing ritual suicide for losing to Todd Anderson.

This is necessary. I will lend you my sword.