[WIP]Jeleva, Nephalia’s Scourge - Upgrading the PreCon

[DroppinSuga]

So the purpose of this thread is to take the new Commander 2013 deck Mind Seize and upgrade it. Now obviously the mana base is the easiest target, so I'd like to ignore it for the most part. I just want to hear everyone's opinions on what we should swap out to make the best Jeleva deck possible.

This is the deck list that comes in the package -
[deck]
Commander
1 Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge

Creatures
1 Augur of Bolas
1 Baleful Force
1 Baleful Strix
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Diviner Spirit
1 Echo Mage
1 Fog Bank
1 Guard Gomazoa
1 Guttersnipe
1 Hooded Horror
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Nekusar, the Mindrazer
1 Nightscape Familiar
1 Nivix Guildmage
1 Terra Ravager
1 Thraximundar
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Uyo, Silent Prophet
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Viseling

Spells
1 Annihilate
1 Arcane Melee
1 Armillary Sphere
1
Army of the Damned
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Curse of Chaos
1 Curse of Inertia
1 Curse of Shallow Graves
1 Decree of Pain
1 Dismiss
1 Eye of Doom
1 Fissure Vent
1 Grixis Charm
1 Illusionist's Gambit
1 Incendiary Command
1 Infest
1 Mirari
1 Molten Disaster
1 Obelisk of Grixis
1 Opportunity
1 Phthisis
1 Price of Knowledge
1 Propaganda
1 Prosperity
1 Skyscribing
1 Sol Ring
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Spiteful Visions
1 Starstorm
1 Strategic Planning
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Temple Bell
1 Tempt with Reflections
1 Vision Skeins
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Wild Ricochet

Mana Base
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grixis Panorama
9 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Molten Slagheap
5 Mountain
1 Opal Palace
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Rupture Spire
8 Swamp
1 Temple of the False God
1 Urza's Factory
1
Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Marsh
[/deck]

[Manasjap]

I think you'd first want to decide whether to keep or drop the whole "each player draws stuff" subtheme. It's pretty interesting to work around, but I don't think it is really necessary for Jeleva.
You probably want Lightning Greaves or Whispersilk Cloak in there.

[Azrael]

I count three cards that I'd keep in the list. One of them is the general herself, and one of them is Sol Ring.

[DroppinSuga]

What direction would you suggest taking then?

[Azrael]

What direction would you suggest taking then?

Hmm. Well, obviously you want as many instants and sorceries in your deck as possible. And, you want to be able to manipulate the top of your deck.

So, Insidious Dreams (!!!) Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Personal Tutor, Liliana Vess, Brainstorm, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, if you're so lucky. Sensei's Top is a thought, but it isn't as good as the rest. Maybe Future Sight/Magus of the Future? Have to be careful not to run too many non-sorceries though, I suppose, and those are both mana hungry. So strike those two.

It's a pity that so few ramping spells in those colors exist. Fabricate counts, I suppose, if you grab Sol Ring with it. Acquire. Even so, it's probably worth it to run about 10-
14 mana rocks of varying sizes, but with an emphasis on the two slot.

For actual killing/combo potential, Army of the Damned, every Time Warp effect ever including Knowledge exploitation, walk the aeons, time stretch. Cruel Ultimatum isn't bad, Head Games, Persecute, Bribery. INSURRECTION!!! (all caps).

Sorc speed tutor effects might not hurt if you're casting them for free - Diabolic, Demonic Collusion, Increasing Ambition, Demonic Tutor.

Dralnu might not be a bad critter, here. Chaos Warp. Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, depending on your meta. Tidings. Lightning Greaves. Blatant Thievery. Amnesia. Recurring Insight.

I suppose you could be cute and do Seize the Day and World at War. Pretty win-more, though.

Add some good finishers and removal, call it a deck?

[Jack]

The "Sword of X and Y" cards might not be bad, since they offer protection for your general, and, since she can fly, usually an extra effect each combat step. F&F>L&S>W&P>F&I>B&M.

[Jack]

You need wraths. Damnation is the best, followed by Blasphemous Act and All is Dust. Decree of Pain/Annihilation are also good, as is Black Sun's Zenith.
If you check out Khaos' primer for Nin, you'll see a lot of the best cards in two of your colors.

[Jack]

Speaking of which, Staff of Nin is just awesome.

[Calamity]

[deck=Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge]
General
1 Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
Mana Acceleration
1 Sol Ring
1 Fabricate
1 Acquire
1 Izzet Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Wayfarer's bauble
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Mana Vault
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Talisman of Dominance

Tutors/Library Manipulators
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Liliana Vess
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Strategic Planning
1 Dimir Charm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain

Sweepers/Removal
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Decree of Pain
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Chain Reaction
1 Chaos Warp
1 Doom Blade
1 Grixis Charm
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Terminate
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Vandalblast
1 Dreadbore
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Pongify
1 Go for the Throat
WinCons
1 Army Of the Damned
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Persecute
1 Insurrection
1 Rise of the Dark
Realms
1 Sins of the Past
1 Seize the Day
1 Runechanter's Pike

Utility/Card draw
1 Increasing Vengence
1 Sakashima the Imposter
1 Rite of Replication
1 Recurring Insight
1 Tidings
1 wheel of fortune
1 Windfall
1 Incendiary Command
1 swiftfoot boots
1 strionic resonator
1 lightning greaves
1 anger
39 Grixis Lands
[/deck]

My first attempt at an EDH deck from scratch. I'm the least sure about my win conditions, ie if there are enough or if they're good enough.

[Jack]

Here's a few staples in grixis colors that you might want to consider:
[deck]
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Solemn Simulcrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Bribery
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Pact of Negation
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Sol Ring
1 Force of Will
1 Omniscience
1 Necropotence
1 Time Warp
1 Time Stretch
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Archaeomancer
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mulldrifter
1 Mimic Vat
1 Ixidron (I fucking love this guy)
1 Body Double
1 Void Stalker
1 Curse of the Swine
[/deck]

I might have to do a Grixis deck of my own. The colors are really fun, but 3 color is always expensive, especially if you're not in green.

[Jack]

Oh, and I forgot counterspells:
[deck]
1 Counterspell
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Dissipate
[/deck]

Also, you can't build a deck without grave hate. It's illegal.
[deck]
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Tormod's Crypt
[/deck]

Trinket Mage is also worth considering. A toolbox is a very powerful attribute for decks in a singleton format.
Also, if you'd like a combo, [card]Sensei's Divining Top[/card], Future Sight and Etherium Sculptor is a fun one (draw you deck) made out of three individually powerful cards.

[Stardust]

Seems decent power-wise. I agree that you could probably use more wincons and also more synergy in general (somewhat harder with instants are sorceries than creatures). You've got a stack of good cards, but (depending on your meta) it can be tough to force a win through when your cards are so fair. Sphinx-Bone Wand or Mirari might help push your deck further.

You're so close to creatureless as it is, it may be worthwhile taking that one extra step and adding Proteus Staff. If you are truly creatureless, target your general and you get her back (with fresh spells to steal) and get to stack your entire deck! Bonus that it can be used to tuck opposing generals.

All in all, I really like this deck. Looks like it'll be fun to pilot.

[Jack]

Oh, and a note to all deckbuilders: if you take the time to type out your mana base, it's easier to give you feedback and suggestions, since we see what cards we can realistically add based upon how good your mana base is and how much you support a certain color. For example, red isn't a very popular color, so many Riku lists don't dedicate much of their mana base to it. However, if their mana base is really good (or if they devote a large part of it to red), I'd suggest that they add Kiki-Jiki. If they're playing a $50 mana base (excluding full art basics) skewed more towards green, then towards blue (like I do), I would not suggest the card. If you include a link to tappedout (great website), then it's even better to visualize the strength and distribution of your mana base (for example,here's my Riku deck and it's mana
base. Very clean formatting).

[Calamity]

Here's a new version: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jeleva-n ... 5-11-13-1/

Took you guys' suggestions to heart, lets see what you think. I dunno if I need as much land as I have, There's a good chance I have too much. I also don't know if I'm playing too much ETB tapped lands.

Right now I have a graveyeard/flashback subtheme with the wheel effects, plus they power runechanter's pike (which seems like a decent alternate wincon). The mainboard is also creatureless to abuse Proteus Staff like Stardust suggested. I'm still not sure if I have enough wincons here, and I'm also trying to think of a way to give my board haste so I can immediately start killing people after I do a Rise of the Dark Realms/Insurrection/army of the damned.

[Jack]

The Proteus Staff trick is nice, but I don't think it beats out Consecrated Sphinx, Archaeomancer, Psychosis Crawler, Body Double, Solemn Simucrum and Ixidron (just to name a few of the awesome blue creatures. I didn't even get started on black!). Actually, I will get started on creatures for other colors: Goblin Welder, Bloodgift Demon, Wurmcoil Engine and Rune-Scarred Demon. You miss out on a lot by playing creatureless, and I don't think you have enough wraths/removal to cover for it. Adding too many more wraths/removal would also be bad, as they're not exactly what you want to see when you cast your general.

[Manasjap]

Also note that while stacking your whole deck is quite nice, you don't get the extra mill/spells to cast with Jeleva because you don't pay any mana to cast it.
Having a few good creatures with preferably enters the battlefield triggers (see Archaeomancer, Solemn Simulacrum above), you can still stack your deck efficiently with Proteus Staff and get some additional value.

[Stardust]

Oh yeah! That plan is way worse thanks to that. Scrap Proteus Staff. Get some good creatures in there.

[Helios]

I'd take out wayfarer's bauble and chromatic lantern. Since Jeleva costs 4, you want all of your ramp to be 2 cmc. Bauble takes too much time, even though it is 1 -> 2, if you don't play it on T1 it costs more.

[Jack]

Lantern is great in 3 color decks that don't have green to fix their mana. Don't look at it as ramp, just color fixing.

[Calamity]

Yeah I'm keeping the lantern in. The bauble is getting cut though its no that good. I'm also probably keeping Thran dynamo since it'll help me cast my general past the first, and hardcast some of my expensive stuff If I need too.

In general I think my mana rocks are good. I just need to figure out the right mix of removal, counters, wincons, and tutors.

[Azrael]

Shaping up nicely. Rise of the Dark realms is a pretty nice pick.

What's your budget/card pool like? Bribery and Blatant Thievery as mentioned before would definitely help in the win con department. Bribery may be the best 5cc card in the format. Diluvian Primordial has good synergy, and is quite a good game-ender if there's multiple time warp effects in yard.

Plague Wind is REALLY good here. Urabrask, Hammer of Purphyros if you're looking for hasty insta-kills.

Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas Planeswalker. Grave Titan. Godo Bandit Warlord with Argentum Armor, especially if you want to work in a Sword or two. Maybe Wrexial, the Risen Deep.

[Calamity]

Did some brainstorming, here's some cards I'm considering. Tappedout is being dumb and I can't look at my list on there atm.

Urabrask, The Hidden
Consecrated Sphinx
Blatant Thievery
Bribery
Archaeomancer
Fury of the Horde
Sakashima the Imposter
Anger
Sins of the Past
World at War
Library of Leng
null brooch
trinket mage
expedition map
long-term plans
portent
misinformation
Cruel Tutor
merchant scroll
clutch of the undercity
coldsteel heart
the timewalk variants

I've done some looking around, I see people trying to make her a blitz combo general with laboratory maniac and enter the infinite but I dunno if that's what I want to do. I think just having a deck that can take advantage of the insane value Jeleva can bring you is the best route.

The people I'm playing with also aren't hyper competitive in general, so I'm not trying to do anything too degenerate

[Jack]

Soooo....... no Necropotence, then.

[Calamity]

It's a powerful card but I want to maximize the spells that I can capitalize on with Jeleva...not sure if I'll have room for it

[Azrael]

Well, clearly Necrologia then. : )

[Calamity]

Updated again: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jeleva-n ... 5-11-13-1/

Added some power creatures. I think I might have too much spot removal here, because there's definitely some stuff i want to fit that i can't find room for (trinket mage, spelltwine, bribery). I like dreadbore 'cause it hits walkers, diabolic edict 'cause fuck hexproof, the charms for their versatility (though they might get cut), terminate because it's unconditional (the can't be regenerated clause helps sometimes too).

Upon testing I've decided I have too many ETB tapped lands, probably going to remove guildgates/temple of deceit and replace them, not sure with what yet. Ideally they'd be filter lands, but then again ideally I'd have the full set of fetches and original duals, which I'm not going to have for looooong
time (if ever). I might replace bounce lands too.