[Primer] PyroRed

[Calamity]

I've found the control plan to be very bad vs. mono U devotion too Z...

I like the idea of Purphoros for mono U though. In my experience a decent amount of time they just play defensive until they play master of waves but we can't attack into them favorably. Purphoros makes our one drops not as terrible top decks, tacks a shock onto every spell we play with YP$, and hell his mini dynacharge static ability could end games too. Making him a creature is pretty good too since they pretty much can't deal with him once he's on the board.

Also what would your board plan vs. mono U devotion be with the 75 you posted? I'd go with:

Out:
-4 firedrinker
-1 shock (or maybe vice versa)
In:
+1 Purphoros
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+3 Skullcrack

[Link]

hell maybe you just want 4 fotf over anything else? they shouldn't be making more than 3 tokens if you're doing it right... and it's the nuts va any combination of dudes and jace

[Calamity]

FotF is pretty good vs. other red decks too

[Link]

calamity they still run cyclonic rift and can chump with mow all day

I really think you do not want it to go late and durdle tap for purphoros

it's
phoenix and burning their fliers that wins you it

[zemanjaski]

I don't mind Electrickery actually:
- randomly snipes other x/1s (familiar, cloudfin sometimes);
- triggers YP;
- some other situational upside.

For 1 more mana I can have Flames of the Firebrand which is maybe just better? Can't answer a huge board of tokens, but is otherwise better, so maybe 4x Flames? It's more proactive too.

Hammer is just a good call and you're right, it's solid in the mirror and it's good vs. Esper and Mono B as well. I actually like the card a lot, but I was starting to move away from it because I just haven't needed it in the matchups you'd traditionally want it! I hadn't really explored its alternate uses but you make a compelling argument.

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

* numbers open to discussion.

Thanks Fate ^_____^

[Calamity]

good point, I guess I've just never seen them draw it

I really need to get in more testing in the matchup, but now that you mention it i think this might be a matchup where we just need to slash and burn 'cause their late game (playing lots of dudes and then LOLMASTER OF WAVES LOOK AT THIS VALUE) is bullshit.

[Calamity]

the golems are colorless to so they can' just chump them with master

[LP, of the Fires]

Fate is a low key sideboard tuning genius. Also, if you're adding hammer, I think you can cut a burning earth for 1 slot if you find something else you'd like in your board and need a cut. Between 3 skullcrack/1 hammer, that's all you really need for the control matchup I'd think(straight swap for shock).

[zemanjaski]

Yep, these are all improvements.

[zemanjaski]

FWIW worth my matchup vs. Mono B and Esper are basically byes.

[LP, of the Fires]

Hence just cutting Burning earths for actual cards that do things in bad matchups.

[magicdownunder]

Hey Z,

I'm starting to think 2/2 split between Shock and fotf is looking quite good here:

Vs MonoBlack you get your extra spell to hit the Nightveil Specter

Vs Mono Blue, Mono Red and GR its good for 2-4-1

Vs Control, your most likely going into top-deck mode later anyways so its not "horrible"

[Helios]

I cut Burning Earth a while ago and haven't looked back; it's overkill where it's good. Is naya a big enough issue to warrant it?

[Valdarith]

Not IMO. I'd rather just be faster. There's been a couple of games where I just slammed it down turn four against Esper control and said "lolpassturn" but I feel like those sideboard slots are better used elsewhere. Plus a lot of my Esper opponents are keeping Thoughtseize in against aggro and between that and Detention Sphere they do have answers to the card.

[Khaospawn]

This may sound crazy, but I think MDU is/was on to something with boarding Fanatic during certain MUs. I've been using that strategy with my Big Fucking Dragon deck with good testing results.

[zemanjaski]

I'm already winning without Burning Earth so probably not necessary. I would like a singleton though as drawing it just beats the discussed decks so badly.

Shock / FotF split in the main like we discussed could be pretty good. Annihilating Fire is the other option, but that doesn't seem as well positioned as it was a few months ago. I just like the cheapness of Shock, costing 1 is so valuable. Maybe 3/1? Haha.

I'd like to be able to board out all 1 drops vs. RDW, so boarding strategies should keep that in mind.

Currently for MBC I am boarding ~
OUT: -4 Shock, -4 Magma Jet
IN: 3 Act of Treason, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 3 Skullcrack

And that's working great. Mortars could just be Flames because I need to kill Spectre on 3, not Metchant on 5. I like that Mortars only costs 2 though, sometimes that all ill have early, or I can Mortars + 1 drop. Thoughts?

Burning Earth probably isn't necessary. -4 Shock, +1 Hammer
of Purphoros, +3 Skullcrack is proven to be winning vs. Esper.

So that gives us this:
3 Act of Treason
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack

Six cards for Mono U (primary), Mono R (secondary) and Gruul (tertiary). FotF is a front runner. What else you got?

[Helios]

Flames is rarely (if ever) going to have more value against MBC than Mortars - stick with Mortars for that matchup. Field wipes are kool.

If you want more hate for U, Awe for the Guilds / Seismic Stomp / Legion Loyalist seem alright.

[magicdownunder]

Your really not feeling the Fanatic here against Mono U are ya Z.

BTW I've given up on the Red God (bye bye 5 tickets), going to try some rather large changes to the Australian Winter (PyroW) list I'll post it once I'm happy with it.

I'm in favor for 3/1 split between shock and FoTF, I'll put one more in the boards though.

[LP, of the Fires]

+2 mortars, +2 flames, +2???

Those two give you additional cards for the mirror and the last two cards can be Fanatic maybe? Khaos' suggestion seems interesting and I like having a couple Fanatics in vs. MonoU for reach through board stalls.

[magicdownunder]

Flames is rarely (if ever) going to have more value against MBC than Mortars - stick with Mortars for that matchup. Field wipes are kool.

If you want more hate for U, Awe for the Guilds / Seismic Stomp / Legion Loyalist seem alright.

Of course you wouldn't board Flames in against MBC its just for the MD discussion, rather then SB.

In that case I agree Mortars in more cases then not is better then Flames.

[Helios]

I was actually about to echo MDU's suggestion for Fanatic, but here he and LP show up and get there. So 3rd that. It's worth testing, for sure.

MDU:

Currently for MBC I am boarding ~
OUT: -4 Shock, -4 Magma Jet
IN: 3 Act of Treason, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 3 Skullcrack

And that's working great. Mortars could just be Flames because I need to kill Spectre on 3, not Metchant on 5. I like that Mortars only costs 2 though, sometimes that all ill have early, or I can Mortars + 1 drop. Thoughts?

[Khaospawn]

Obviously, I have no business posting here because I don't run WW/PyroRed, but I still follow this thread all the same.

I've been going rogue for the past few weeks and doing my own thing with regards to my own local metagame (already going infinite), but I still like to rub elbows with the better minds for this game.

[Helios]

You're more than welcome here, good sir.

[LP, of the Fires]

Obviously, I have no business posting here because I don't run WW/PyroRed, but I still follow this thread all the same.

I've been going rogue for the past few weeks and doing my own thing with regards to my own local metagame (already going infinite), but I still like to rub elbows with the better minds for this game.

Same here. While I've been playing a bunch of different shit the last couple of weeks, I've played a lot of pyro red and I happily lend my swag to this thread.

[Link]

I'd take my advice with a grain of smash though, because all I know about SBing is to not dilute my game plan which I've taken to heart so seriously that I just CANT play purely reactive SB cards anymore (like ratchet bomb), and even have to kick myself to play mortars half the time.


I don't think boarding out magma jet is the right call in the first place tbh. I meat it lines up poorly against everything but mutavault yeah, but if you take them out:

-you lose the scry that can give you a consistency edge
-you make YP$ weaker who is our frigging trump to desecration demon
-act of treason+Skullcrack for the burnout plan is supplemented by magma jet.


Now.... careful now I'm treading on dangerous turf here but:

-4 Shock
-2 Chandra

+3 treason
+3 skullcrack

(also possibly -2 jets for +2 flames for 6 outs to spectre)

Yeah. I said it. Thunder thighs:

Arguement-Grinding them out with chandra's 0
seems bad. Making their hero's downfall more efficient (answers our 4 cmc play) and turning chandra into a 4 cmc 1 damage burn spell feels just really bad.

Demon just folds to Yp$, not really chandra. Chandra can ping it out of the way, but if their follow up is removal for your guy swing at chandra i feel way behind.

The way we win is by coming at them hard with 1-drops and using our mana more efficiently, and act of treasoning/ skullcracking their only real ways of stabilizing vs. our deck.

Worth trying out though, as hard as it is to consider taking out the best card in standard I think it lines up poorly with the best answer in standard atm.

[Khaospawn]

You're more than welcome here, good sir.

This thread feels the way it does when I walk into my best friend's house. I feel welcome and I contribute what I can, but I don't judge. There are great things going on here.

Obviously, I have no business posting here because I don't run WW/PyroRed, but I still follow
this thread all the same.

I've been going rogue for the past few weeks and doing my own thing with regards to my own local metagame (already going infinite), but I still like to rub elbows with the better minds for this game.

Same here. While I've been playing a bunch of different shit the last couple of weeks, I've played a lot of pyro red and I happily lend my swag to this thread.

Every thread could use more of your swag, my friend.

[zemanjaski]

RE: Fanatic vs Mono U. I really like it, but it's seems anemic without Reckoner in my 75 as well. Thoughts? Now that we're freeing up space it looks like we can dedicate quite a bit here. Stormbreath Dragon?

RE: MBC and Fate's SBing idea. Pretty interesting and very logical. I'm open to trying it. I have definitely won using Chandra to grind them out, but perhaps a more proactive plan would have sufficed. They only have 4 outs to her and sometimes they're forced into using a Downfall earlier, so she just takes over. My experience is that get synergy with Phoenix is very good in this matchup, but again, being more proactive is probably fine. You definitely want 2 Mortars/Flames (kill Spectre), so the discussion is whether two Jet are better than two Chandra. My thoughts;
- both recur Phoenix;
- jet is faster and synergises better with YP;
- jet is always card disadvantage. Chandra is card parity or better; and
-
jet is only ever two damage. Chandra is one or more.

Chandra costing 4 is a big deal, but the upside is huge. I'll test your plan though, it's very logical which is good.

[amcfvieira]

So that gives us this:
3 Act of Treason
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack

Six cards for Mono U (primary), Mono R (secondary) and Gruul (tertiary). FotF is a front runner. What else you got?

I like Hammer, Mortars, skullcrack against Mono U. Maybe more than 2 mortars will be very nice. It kills specter and Weird and can be overload in late game. So maybe in this 6 spots you can put 1 or 2 more mortars.
It's good against Mono R too.
For grull I like very much Act of Treason. Maybe Reckoner can come back.

[LP, of the Fires]

If I'm 95% to cosign anything Z recommends, I'm 90% to agree with Fate. Looking back, Fate was completely right about the 1 mortars I was playing in my gruul deck. Despite the fact that it was awesome everytime I drew it, any burn spell would have just been better.

Count on the gruul mage to be the best linear thinker

[Khaospawn]

I've been playing 2 Mortars in my main for a few weeks and haven't regretted it.

Not.

One.

Bit.

[zemanjaski]

RE: Reckoner, I can't reliably cast it. No bueno

[amcfvieira]

Gruul mage remembers me Rg last season. We can always play bad cards like Madcap Skills to race Gruul devotion. Burn what we can and let the Caryatid unable to block alone.

[Helios]

Z: What about 4 Reckoners + 1 Mountain?

Khaos: It's essentially the same as playing Chained, as far as slots go- losing those two slots against control is fine, and it's soooooooo good against everything else.

[zemanjaski]

@ Helios, ill take it into consideration. Even 19 sources is blergh.

Will test this 75:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells
1 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Lands
18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Act of Treason
1 Burning Earth
3 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Shock
3 Skullcrack
[/deck]

*Shock in the board could be a 4th Mortars. Maybe -1 Flames, +1 Mortars?

*Flames in the main could be Mortars. Thoughts?

[Valdarith]

Actually Madcap Skills is a pretty good choice against mono blue because they have no real removal, but I'm not sure what you'd want to sub out for it. I personally want as much burn as possible in the blue matchup so the only other choice is siding out a couple of creatures and that seems terrible.

[Valdarith]

Definitely -1 Flames, +1 Mortars. I'd also cut a Mutavault to go to 21 land which would allow you to mainboard a fourth Shock. 21 lands on only two four drops and five three drops seems more than sufficient.

[zemanjaski]

I'm not saying cutting a land is wrong but I won't do it.

I am leaning towards Mortars over Flames. The three big decks are Mono B, U and R and they're both about equal there, with Mortars having slightly more upside against fringe decks.

[Helios]

Agree with Mortars.

[magicdownunder]

I believe I finally solved the Mono Blue Devotion Problem here is my list:

[deck=MDU's Australian Winter]Lands 22
12x Mountain
04x Sacred Foundry
04x Temple of Triumph
02x Mutavault

Creatures 22
04x Firedrinker Satyr
04x Rakdos Cackler
04x Burning-Tree Emissary
03x Firefist Striker
03x Young Pyromancer
04x Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 02
02x Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
02x Chained to the Rocks

Pew Pew 12
04x Lightning Strike
04x Magma Jet
03x Shock
01x Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
04x Boros Reckoner
02x Skullcrack
02x Act of Treason
02x Chained to the Rocks
02x Mizzium Mortars
02x Fanatic of Mogis
01x Flames of the Firebrand[/deck]

Its not a cake walk but this list will allow you to squeeze in damage at a higher rate, provide reasonable answers toward troubling creatures and has a number of outlets for blowouts (Its say something if you can get through 2 jaces
and 2 MoW in the same match). GR is slightly better - but not favorable, as it stands this is most likely what I'll be taking to MOCS11 Finals.

[F.I.A]

With Chained to the Rocks, Walter White shouldn't have much problem against MoWs. Something I wish PyroRed could have.

After a few fights against those rogue enchant decks (Turn 1 Gladecover Scout you) and the ever-present roadblock Sylvan Caryatid, I'm thinking about Glaring Spot. Your Cackler got blocked by an overconfident plant-thingy? Drop that artifact and Shock it to ruin their manabase.

It also work as a better, albeit more expensive (and telegraphed) Seismic Stomp.

Edit: Yeah, it does nothing against MoW, except buying us an alpha strike at the cost of [mana]4[/mana].