[Primer] PyroRed

[InflatablePie]

Thanks for the great report inflatablepie. Reading that reinforces to me how difficult a lot of the decisions are with this deck; in the three weeks I've been playing I swear my win % has improved every week as I've got more comfortable. So keep up the good work! Looks like you had a pretty good grasp of strategy, but do ask if you need any help or have anything you want to discuss

Yeah, I'm still screwing up a few things. Hell, I would have posted this report last night, but was kicking myself over losing the last match. I think it was still a solid play given that I did not see Devour Flesh games 1 and 2.

But I realized looking back that I messed up a few
times: multiple Satyrs against D-Spheres, card choices, I think at least once I forgot to recur a Phoenix after Chandra's +1. Oops. Against UW I almost forgot to ping an Elspeth token since I've been using it just as a ping-player every other game I've drawn her (between both nights I've played this deck).

(also this happened between games 1/2 (or 3/4 I can't remember).)

[Yarpus]

Renounce the Guilds.
Hits our Cackler but fuck Cackler. It also hits most of troublesome creatures - Reckoner, Blood Baron and Obzedat.

[Helios]

Maybe I'm overvaluing it, but overloading Mortars is hella good, and happens a lot more than one would expect. Seems like a meta call to me- if there are enough DDs to warrant Pacifism, go for it. I'd rather Mortars.

On a side note, Pacifism on Fleetmane Lion feels bad. Not relevant enough to disregard the card, just a thing to be aware of.

[zemanjaski]

It's not good. I've tried it. I agree that in theory it should be fantastic, but in testing it sucked.

[Helios]

I played it at states and was similarly unimpressed. It answers the cards you need it to, but does nothing otherwise. And sometimes they just sac a Dsphere and laugh at you.

[zemanjaski]

I find overloaded mortars happens a lot and if you have one in hand you can sometimes afford to play to that line.

[Helios]

That sort of flexibility is why I'd rather Mortars over Pacifism. If the field skews to x/5s, then we can switch.

[zemanjaski]

Ok so my SB is now:
2 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars

With 3 flex. Options:
- pacifism
- peak eruption
- wear // tear
- traitorous instinct
- skullcrack
- Boros charm (it's really good!)

If kinda like more cards that kill Master, so maybe 1x last breath; just to supplement my chains.

[Helios]

I'm between Peak Eruption and Skullcrack- my meta is pretty diverse, but mostly control. Seen lots of Dega & America, which makes me want Peak Eruption. Lots of Esper players too.

[Yarpus]

I'd play 4 maindeck Chaineds so my Sb on the other hand looks like this

[deck]4 Anti-Aggro
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
2 Flex
1 Pithing Needle[/deck]

In Anti-Aggro slot: Annihilating Fire, Flames of the Firebrand, Boros Reckoner, Warleader's Helix
In Flex slot: Wear // Tear, Hammer of Purphoros, Traitorous Instincts

[Helios]

4 mb cards that are useless against control seems less than kosher.

[Yarpus]

Matchup against them is good enough, while other matchups are not-good enough to justify that.

[zemanjaski]

Your anti aggro cards should just be Reckdaddy when you can afford it; no other card comes close to the power level. It's really, really hard for an aggro deck to beat two of them.

[Khaospawn]

Ok so my SB is now:
2 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars

With 3 flex. Options:
- pacifism
- peak eruption
- wear // tear
- traitorous instinct
- skullcrack
- Boros charm (it's really good!)

If kinda like more cards that kill Master, so maybe 1x last breath; just to supplement my chains.

No more Peak Eruption?

[zemanjaski]

I haven't faced GR or Naya in ~5 days. MBC is very popular now and both decks are awful against doom blade.

[InflatablePie]

We have 4 slots for control (Charm/Hammer), 6-8 against the already favorable aggro matchup (Reckoner, Mortars, Chained against Eruption-less decks), and 8 for midrange (Reckoner, Mortars, Chained).

I feel like this deck can almost always win against control if played right, usually wins the aggro match, and seems to have more trouble with midrange. I'm not sold on Pacifism yet, and while I kinda like Skullcrack, I feel like we can still win against Control if they resolve lifegain off Revelation. It's better against lifelink decks, mostly Whip decks, and I would want Wear/Tear for that. It also gives us flexibility in the sense that we get an extra SB card if we run into decks using pesky enchantments.

re: Peak Eruption: Good if you're expecting lots of Mono-Red, American, Dega, or GR Midrange. I haven't actually drawn this card in a game yet so I'm not sure how great it is. Although if you're running this, you'd
want to run three, so you lose out on having a one-of option. Also it's not necessary against mono-red as we already have enough cards for the matchup.

re: Traitorous Instinct: Two seems more than fine here, so you can also throw a one-of in (Wear/Tear or another Boros Charm). I've liked having access to this card in PyroRed against midrange, mostly as a way to remove blockers and win a turn quicker or help fight through lifelink. Thing is, Chained also removes a blocker to help push damage through. I think I would run this over two Chained in the board if I wanted it, not alongside 4 Chained.

So my suggestions for possible sideboards:
-2 Chained, +2 Instinct, +1 Boros Charm/Mortars: if you're expecting more midrange decks. Mortars for aggro/midrange meta, Charm for control.

+3 Peak Eruption: if you're expecting lots of GR, Dega or American.

+2 Wear/Tear, +1 Boros Charm/Mortars: takes out Whip/Bident/other pesky things. Mortars for aggro/midrange, Charm for control.
n
+1 Mortars, +1 Boros Charm, +1 Wear/Tear: catch-all*!
*not actually a catch-all

+2 Skullcrack, +1 Boros Charm: if your meta is all control

I think I'm running a Wear/Tear, if not two, for sure. I'm probably trying out the 1-Charm/Mortars plan.

[zemanjaski]

I agree with you on control, I believe the matchup doesn't need much to be good.

To understand why I have so much anti aggro and midrange cards; it's because on MODO, aggro and green midrange decks are ~50% of the meta. So I want a lot of cards for those decks; I don't want to be 55% favourite, I want to be 75-80%. I faces 4 Red decks in the DE last night (going 4-0). So it's worth it, even if it looks excessive.

Ill take everything else into consideration, very helpful notes

[Helios]

I think I'll just be that guy that walks around FNM, figuring out what everyone is playing, before I decide on my flex slots

[zemanjaski]

Oh you're esper? How funny. My sideboard is 2 hammer, 2 Boros charm, 4 Skullcrack. Awks!

[Helios]

We have at least 30 people on a regular basis, so it won't be quite that bad. Still can't decide whether to do FNM, Game Day, or both. The shop is an hour away, so getting home at 2 am and driving back out at 9 am isn't exactly a feel-good plan.

[zemanjaski]

Whichever has the best prize support.

[Helios]

Gonna call the shop tomorrow and find out. There's a massive football game in town Saturday, so not being here would be pretty alright by me. Off to bed, night gents.

[Narcasus]

Real quick post about my online adventures tonight before bed. Played in the thurs night magic online, ended up going 3-0. I faced g/w hexproof (Fuck this deck) , Mono black devotion, and some kind of blue black red control thing? I was running the standard list

Series one was hexproof. Game one was me seeing green white and going okay, agro. I tap out turn 2 play 2 1 drops and watch him eot create a token, then give it hex proof and first strike and a bunch of others over the turns. I think i can race him with tokens by YP but he throws on the trample lifegain enchantment and swings for 19 with his one dude. Game 2 i hold up mana and burn out his loxodon as he tries to make it hexproof and basically ignore his 1/1 hexproof elves and swing through on the ground, getting the win before he draws more enchantments to put on the elves. Game 3 he just stalls out, only plays a fleecemane and a hexproof enchantment on it and i
overrun him with guys.

Series 2 was against the u/b/r control. Game one i just went right underneath him and killed him. Game 2 i sided as if it was dega since i really had no idea what i was playing. I ended up killing his only mountain turn 3 and he sat on blue and black mana the rest of the game. He used a few counter spells and kill spells but eventually died.

Series 3 was mono black devotion. Game 1 i was way too fast and killed him before he could really do too much. Game 2 was more of the same. i sided out shocks and brought in boros charms and chains. I got alot of damage in, chained a merchant to keep his devotion low and swung for lethal. He really just didn't have the cards either game and my hands were solid and fluent.

The overall feel of the deck at the moment is about what you all feel i think. I am winning games consistently but i feel like im missing something. and YP is very off and on for me and in all honesty in the last 2 weeks playing the deck i draw him in about 15% of my
games i feel like. The best part of the deck i think is when you pull your starting hand and you decide what kind of deck you are gonna be this game. Did you draw 4 creatures? guess we are sligh. 3 burn and 2 phoenix? more wait and see and bash with phoenix. either clearing dudes out or recurring phoenix against control. The strength of the deck really is that it can play so many different ways that i think opponents face a sligh game 1 and then face a card advantage engine game 2 and really don't know how to handle it well at all. I guess thats a good rant before bed. I hope i made some sense. Have a good night all

[zemanjaski]

Well done. Good night sweet prince.

[Jurrk]

Actually caught your stream mid round 2 Narcasus. Very nicely done! Going to make the switch from Mono red with dragons to Pyro Boros this weekend when I get some card cash and it was nice watching the deck in action in stead of just in theory!

[warwizard87]

I was wondering if black might be better then white in some ways, I really like doomblade over chained to the rocks cuz it interacts with Young pyro better. this is what I was thinking

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandras Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Doom Blade
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Rakdos Guild Gate
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mutavault
13 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Doom Blade
1 Dreadbore
2 Skullcrack
2 Trairoious Instinct
1 Hammer Of Prophorious
4 Boros Reckoner
[/deck]

Not gonan lie it is completely untested. But I feel more comfortable withblack then white, it worrys me that I don't have the scry lands though.

[warwizard87]

Yeah me to. Fitting in all the cards isn't easy, but it's a pretty exciting deck. Tymaret is just really good.

[deck]PyroRak[/deck]

oops see this is already being discussed. Is it worth losing ash zealot for jester?

[Jurrk]

Also, if I'm making the switch to pyro boros, what is a good decklist you'd recommend starting with? Is the one on the first page of primer current? My meta is exclusively modo right now. I like your SB you just posted Z, how about MB for current modo meta? Perhaps you've already posted it, but I've looked through the thread and I must've missed it? Thanks!

[Mage of hot stuff]

The BR option is a viable one. However R/W is far stronger because Boros Charm > Dreadbore + Doom blade. It really is amazing, and the only real reason i wanna try the Pyroboros. Then Chained to the rocks is also the best removal spell in my opinion. 1 mana option for any creature minus Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Stormbreath Dragon

[warwizard87]

i don't see how charm is better then doomblade o_O, yes chained is the best removal in the format ( not doubting that at all.) my point is chained is weaker when combined with young pyro making him weaker overall.

[Mage of hot stuff]

boros charm offers a variety of spells giving you 3 options in one. Plus the option to make all your Permanents indestructible is far greater than killing a non black creature. I dunno i guess it boils down to opinion and a meta call. I just see too many uses in the charm over the other options. Ive played black decks where more often than naught, atleast for myself, it would be a dead card. Alot of people splash black out here. Damn near every deck actually. So its just my 2 cents, but if im gonna splash anything it would be more towards the white for the boros charm and the chained is a bonus.

[zemanjaski]

Dreadbore is so much better than Doom Blade.

[Yarpus]

Boros: Chained to the Rocks, Boros Charm, Wear // Tear, Scrylands.
Rakdos: Dreadbore, Rakdos' Return, Rakdos Charm. I'd consider Toil // Trouble against Control as it could be nuts.

[windstrider]

Dreadbore is so much better than Doom Blade.

Oh my, yes. It was certainly one of the best spells in Dos Rakis. Killing almost all creatures and Planeswalkers is especially potent. Dreadbore would be the primary reason to splash black. The mana for it, however, just sucks and all but eliminates Reckoner from consideration. To me, that is the biggest strike against including black.

Has anyone actively tested Purphoros, God of the Forge in PyroRed? At first glance, he appears to offer another synergy to the deck: adding damage to Phoenix recursions and Pyromancer tokens, and even Mutavaults. He's also a pump effect for the whole team, making our somewhat anemic-looking creatures better.
Plus, it wouldn't take much to make him a creature with a Zealot and a Phoenix on the field. There's a lot of upside to consider, but I might be missing something.

Edit: Added strikethrough text.

[Yarpus]

Activating Mutavault doesn't trigger him.
He has cute interactions but not sure if we can afford to play it.

Dreadbore mana being bad? It costs RB. Not BB. I'm greedy as fuck these days, so I play with 8 off-color mana sources with 2-4 off-color spells in main. It's not like you'll have to cast it during the first 2-3 turns.
Generally, shouldn't be a big hassle if you can cast Chained to the Rocks.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Other Spells:
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Dreadbore

Lands:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
12 Mountain[/deck]

Originally I didn't included Tymaret and manabase was ok. But Tymaret is so-fucking-good in this deck.

[LaZerBurn]

I dunno i guess it boils down to opinion and a meta call.

This is sooo true

I think it's worth considering/discussing a Black splash; it creates some nice options - Dreadbore, Doomblade, Tymaret, Spike Jester, Rakdos Charm, Slaughter Games, Duress, Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return.

@ Windstrider - I haven't, not sure if anyone else has but the points you make are compelling.

If I had the cards I'd test all this myself on MTGO but at this point I need to get better at MTG and start winning more boosters before I can justify any more expenditure PyroBoros is a
proven deck so I've no excuses on that score

[Yarpus]

Also if you are scared of not hitting Reckoner mana, you could play BW Shocklands instead of swamps. Those will let you hit both T1 Cackler and T3 Reckoner (but just like any other lands, will screw T2 Zealot).

[windstrider]

No, simply activating a Mutavault won't trigger Purphoros, but my thinking is it will the turn you drop a 'vault onto the field and then can activate it since it's a creature just entering the battlefield. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Helios]

Also, if I'm making the switch to pyro boros, what is a good decklist you'd recommend starting with? Is the one on the first page of primer current? My meta is exclusively modo right now. I like your SB you just posted Z, how about MB for current modo meta? Perhaps you've already posted it, but I've looked through the thread and I must've missed it? Thanks!

The one on the front page is the current maindeck, and as you can see by the last few pages we're still discussing a few sb cards.

[Yarpus]

No, simply activating a Mutavault won't trigger Purphoros, but my thinking is it will the turn you drop a 'vault onto the field and then can activate it since it's a creature just entering the battlefield. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Nope.