[Primer] PyroRed

Threads from Standard formats since passed.

Moderators: Kaitscralt, zemanjaski, Christen

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:50 pm

Anyone else find that YP varies from ABSURD to meh? It's either a 2/1 + 3 guys or a 2/1 no abilities...it's always amazing post board though, when you're taking out creatures for spells.
Yup.
You're right. I want something independently powerful, so Stormbreath is the man right now, even if it's just a bad Falkenrath Aristocrat most of the time.

It sometimes feels like I have to work a lot harder than my opponent to win. Anyone else getting that? Probably because I have to make a million little decisions and they're just like "I hope I draw two
desecration demon or I can't possibly win". Must be real nice to play a deck like that. Believe in the heart of the cards yo.
Double yup.


All of these reasons are why I went over to Mono Red Dragons. But even then, I still feel like it's missing something, just like all the decks I've played with in the last couple of weeks. I just don't know what it is yet, or it hasn't been made for us yet.

And, please, nobody tell me,"It's because you're not splashing white." I've yet to make my peace with a mandatory CIPT land, Scry ability or not.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:58 pm

I've also rarely felt that games were unwinnable - we're playing, on average, cards that are less impactful than our opponents. Sometimes they draw all of their impactful cards, in the appropriate sequence, and there is not a lot you can do. But with this deck, any stumble can be exploited to close out the game. With the decks we're seeing now, they have a high chance of "stumbling," whether that is missing mana colors, not drawing threats (re: gruul), or just not being able to handle the Zerg rush followed by Phoenix over the top.

tl;dr This deck is dope.

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 pm

Scrylands are really, really good! They're a great card. Very skill rewarding, both in design and playing.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:02 pm

That feel when your opponent Hero's Downfalls your Phoenix, then you play, land, Chandra, +1.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:04 pm

The feels, bro. The feels.

I feel like dropping 1 Chandra for a Stormbreath is wrong, but what else could go? 1 Chained/Strike?

User avatar
windstrider
Knight in Sour Armor
Posts: 1975
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:11 am
Location: Missouri

Postby windstrider » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:07 pm

It sometimes feels like I have to work a lot harder than my opponent to win. Anyone else getting that? Probably because I have to make a million little decisions and they're just like "I hope I draw two desecration demon or I can't possibly win". Must be real nice to play a deck like that. Believe in the heart of the cards yo.
Oh, absolutely. I take solace in the fact that I'm usually having more fun than they are. :)
Searing Seneschal of Salvation

Image

Cogito, ergo incendo.

sig by NBW

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Honestly not sure. In the Mono Red I'd cut an Annihilating Fire; but I think in the Boros version I like two Chained. I don't mind seeing a single copy in games that go long.

So difficult haha. Seems were at the point where we're settled on 58-59 maindeck cards though.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:11 pm

What about a Lightning Strike? Or is that just bad? Chained makes the most sense type-wise, Chandra curve-wise. I always want Jet (against everything but green), but seeing more than one Strike early game isn't a necessity. Hesitant to cut Instants/Sorceries tho.

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:15 pm

I'm content to leave it as is. They're are so many x/3s that need killing, and it's a great card to have 4-of in your deck when you need to burn someone out (or ult. chandra).
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:16 pm

Sounds good. Maybe Born of the Gods will give us a new toy. Should have some new reports from me + work on the primer soon, FNM and/or Gameday this weekend.

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:36 pm

Outstanding, looking forward to it.

Ill be writing the Magma Jet article and hopefully streaming. We'll see.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Pyreheart Bezerra
Regular Member
Posts: 153
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:53 pm

Postby Pyreheart Bezerra » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:41 pm

@Z How about Last breath in the SB for Specter or Master? 4 life and 2 mana seems like a fair trade for a clean answer to both threats. Also hits opposing Phoenix's and Voice.

Edit: For PyroBoros of course!
Image

Tier 2 Member of Fires of Salvation.

Mountain Mage since 7/12

Check out my Limited Articles @ CardAgain!

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:43 pm

Scrylands are really, really good! They're a great card. Very skill rewarding, both in design and playing.
I know we've discussed tempo loss before with these lands, but that was a week or so ago. Since then, you've probably played about a 100 or so more games. Were there any games where they prevented you from landing a crucial 3-drop or anything like that?

I feel that if anybody is going to convince me, it's going to be you. And if that happens, then there is nothing holding me back from going straight to Sullivan's Dragon list. :gonk:

And if that happens, I'll be testing with a singleton Wrecking Ogre...

edit: I actually won't be
doing any testing. I'm just going to go in dry at FNM and hope that too many assholes don't start bleeding...
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:00 am

There have been a few times where I've had the choice of a zealot / YP on 2 or a Phoenix on three; or the choice between playing a scryland on 2 with shock up; or just playing a creature. These aren't always easy decisions and I'm getting better at making them. For example;
- against a green deck I want the two drop down, because it's only a matter if time until they get walled so I want some value out if the card. My two drops all need to be in play; AZ for removal tricks and YP for value.
- against black decks I'd rather lead with a Phoenix, since it's better for it to eat removal; this lets me get additional value from magma jet and shock.

So yeah, it sometimes disrupts the curve 1-3 nut draw; but often you'll have other lines you want anyway;
- play another 1 drop, shock your guy; or
- play another 2 drop, then Phoenix the turn after.

So it tends to be very marginal. This is rarely a turn 4-5 kill deck,
even in your best draws anyway.

I do feel that scrylands make a greater range of hands 'good'. I've been able to keep hands like:
- Cackler;
- Shock:
- Mutavault;
- Mountain;
- two scrylands; and
- Chandra.

It's a keep without the scrylands of course; and if they were two sacred foundry you'd still be having them enter tapped. What the scrylands do here is ensure you don't draw 2 more land; you might still draw 2 land, but you would have actually drawn four. The scrylands have a huge effect on the relative strength of this keep.

They're also just the best lands to draw going long (you're inevitably going to draw land), as the scry again lets you dig for the cards you need.

I've found them to be very powerful and very skill rewarding, though they've taken a lot if games to get comfortable with (scry 1 being so much weaker than scry 2). Of course they're very powerful post board, where I'm bringing in matchup targeted hate; they help you find your best
cards, which can be critical, eg: finding a second Reckoner a turn sooner in the semi-mirror.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:16 am

Damn just caught up on 5 pages of this thread and it went from "This deck is insane" to "Im not sure about the centerpeice of the deck anymore".

I do just want to make one comment about beating "stumbling opponents" and that is has nothing to do with this deck and this deck is probably worse against stumbling opponents than other red decks because it plays a grindy game without BTE or Fanatic which are the real killers against stumbles.

That said, I REALLY want to play this deck, going to test for 4 hours tonight at my LGS with a gauntlet and see how comfortable I feel.

Got a TCG 5k this weekend in Providence and need to figure out a deck asap.
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:18 am

I don't see anyone expressing doubts about Chandra ;)
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:19 am

I also have a question regarding the red matchup with maindeck reckoners.

Do you hold off on YP until you see they don't have it or just go for it?

Reckoner in the game 1 mirror just really gets me and I have trouble playing around it.


Also,

Do you guys ever play YP on turn 2? Or always wait to have mana up with it?
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:19 am

I don't see anyone expressing doubts about Chandra ;)
Haha Chandra is amazing, but she is in a lot of decks right now.

The ONLY deck running Pyromancer is this deck.
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

Postby LaZerBurn » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:20 am

I'm so happy I found this place! :)

I just had one of those nights on MTGO - Mono U ran me over 3 times in a row, then W/R got a crazy draw and ran me over in G3 before I finally won a match against G/R ramp - but after logging in and reading those last few posts I'm going to bed with a smile on my face and I'll be back becoming a better MTG player again tomorrow :)

Thanks to you all :D

P.S. What is your strategy against Mono U please Z? I want to kill all their dudes to keep them off devotion but tonight it seemed a really hopeless match up! That said it was "a Chain your MoW, ok, play 2 more, bounce your Chain" kind of a night so my perception might be a bit off
:)
Image
Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:21 am

Bouncing a chained MoW....yikes!!!!
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:33 am

RE: YP / Reckoner. I don't quite understand your question. Are you asking if I wait to see if they have Reckoner before playing my YP?

RE: Reckoner generally; it's they're only good card against you. You need to try and creature a ground stall where their Reckoner needs to defend but their other creatures can't attack. The stall favours you because you have more filter/draw to find Phoenix, and more removal/burn to win the air battle. Of course the games where you find Chandra or Chained early are pretty easy.

RE: YP vs. Red; I rarely jam it on two, unless I have a very specific hand (like 3rd land, 2nd YP and shock plus they have a guy for me to shock); I want to get more value and the 1/1s are really good. I prefer to lead with a Zealot (often to block; that's REALLY IMPORTANT), or a Phoenix. Forcing them to burn a Phoenix is really good because yours are so much more powerful than theirs.

RE: YP generally; it
depends on the matchup. Against green decks or UW control I like YP on two because they can't remove it. Against a deck like MBC I'd rather play another 1 drop or Ash Zealot; but if those aren't options you've got to get pressure down. Obviously play the YP post-combat to try and bait removal on your 1 drop; the free x-1s are brutal against control.

RE: MonoBlue; I'm still working in it. I've been experimenting with cutting 1 drops, or with just changing my removal package. So far nothing seems amazing and I'm tracking at about ~55%; which is very low for me. Obviously I have a huge amount if my board set-up for green and red decks, also control; so I'm having to make do with very limited space. As the meta becomes more defined and I don't have to worry about so many archetypes, ill be able to have a more focused response.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Mage of hot stuff
Newcomer
Posts: 41
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:03 am
Location: Turn around.

Postby Mage of hot stuff » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:39 am

Im looking forward to both Your updates helios and your streaming aswell z. Although i cant lie ive really been dying to see your insights on chandra and magma jet. So i will enjoy that read as well.

As far as my opinion on PyroBoros, which is all speculation as im waiting on my 4xSacred Foundry and 4xTemple of Triumph to arrive in the mail to play test the deck. Imho tho, i wouldnt take out either of the 2x chained to rocks simple as that was one of the main reasons to make the PyroBoros deck im assuming, it would be redundant to remove one for another monored card. IMO the best card to remove for a Dragon would be 1x Firedrinker satyr or Rakdos Cackler. Though both extremely good cards. Id much sooner cut a 1 cmc creature that usually only benifits me a tremendous
amounts in the early game, than one of the few burn spells in this deck for YP and the Phoenix. Im selfish, but i love my Phoenix and wanna stay with keeping her happy in my deck with any changes in the deck. So my insight is pretty horrible, as i havent played the PyroBoros and i am bias towards my phoenix. So yeah.....lol

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:42 am

[quote="zemanjaski » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:33 pm"]RE: YP / Reckoner. I don't quite understand your question. Are you asking if I wait to see if they have Reckoner before playing my YP?

RE: Reckoner generally; it's they're only good card against you. You need to try and creature a ground stall where their Reckoner needs to defend but their other creatures can't attack. The stall favours you because you have more filter/draw to find Phoenix, and more removal/burn to win the air battle. Of course the games where you find Chandra or Chained early are pretty easy.

RE: YP vs. Red; I rarely jam it on two, unless I have a very specific hand (like 3rd land, 2nd YP and shock plus they have a guy for me to shock); I want to get more value and the 1/1s are really good. I prefer to lead with a Zealot (often to block;
that's REALLY IMPORTANT), or a Phoenix. Forcing them to burn a Phoenix is really good because yours are so much more powerful than theirs.

RE: YP generally; it depends on the matchup. Against green decks or UW control I like YP on two because they can't remove it. Against a deck like MBC I'd rather play another 1 drop or Ash Zealot; but if those aren't options you've got to get pressure down. Obviously play the YP post-combat to try and bait removal on your 1 drop; the free x-1s are brutal against control.

RE: MonoBlue; I'm still working in it. I've been experimenting with cutting 1 drops, or with just changing my removal package. So far nothing seems amazing and I'm tracking at about ~55%; which is very low for me. Obviously I have a huge amount if my board set-up for green and red decks, also control; so I'm having to make do with very limited space. As the meta becomes more defined and I don't have to worry about so many archetypes, ill be able to have a more focused response.[/quote:
391bbfw2]

Yup was basically asking if you wait before dropping the Pyromancer instead of them dropping it and then I gotta remove it and get 2 for 1'd.

Thanks for the other responses , super helpful.

I have only been playing for like a year so I am really used to the more All in Decks, aside from Dos Rakis(which I played for 6 months). But lots of Gruul aggro when BTE was the rage. I did really well with it, but how hard is that?

I want to up my game and play a deck with more thinking than this. I want to decide the game, not my cards.

Some of these questions feel elementary, but I have not played a true grindy deck such as this where my cards arent super powerful and need to make the most and subtle interactions etc.


Fuck it, I'm gonna sleeve it up tonight, test for 4 hours, then go from there.

If I suck with it, I can always just play Dragons red or boros(Adrian Sullivan list) on the spot.
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
dpaine88
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 920
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 am

Postby dpaine88 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:43 am

when you say Vs Blue decks and cutting 1 drops, are we talking maindeck here or sideboard?

I expect it to be alll over the place at the 5k this weekend. I really fucking want my first top8 5k. Got two top32 and 1 top16.
Usually they get about 250-300 people so top8 would be a major accomplishment for me
Burn baby burn!

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:54 am

I mean when sideboarding, cutting the 1 drops for removal plus Reckoners; but I don't know if that's the best strategy. It's winning games as Reckoner is a 3/3 unblockable and if you can halt their early momentum with removal they don't do a lot, but I'd like to have a more decisive strategy. I'm just not familiar enough with it.

It's the inverse of my mono R matchup where I'm over 90%; not because I'm particularly set up for it, but I've been playing red for 5 years; most if my opponents have been playing red for 5 minutes.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:43 am

If anyone feels ballsy, they can cut a land for Stormbreath.

theoretically, the math looks...unfavorable, but really, our deck minus the Chandra's and Strombreath(4 cards) has an average CMC below 2 and scry lands+chandra dig us to land drops when we want them.

Not saying this is a GOOD idea, but it is an idea. The other option would be to cut the worst card in the deck which is easily shock, but it's SO GOOD when it's good. Decisions.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Mage of hot stuff
Newcomer
Posts: 41
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:03 am
Location: Turn around.

Postby Mage of hot stuff » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:54 am

I dunno. that would definitely need to be tested. a land could really hurt, although as you pointed out we do have a nice bit of scry. I'm still very weary of losing a shock. Imho 12 burns is a minimum. but burn spells are a big reason i play red.

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:58 am

I wouldn't go below 23; this deck is mana hungry as all get out.

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:46 am

Image

Just a little something something. :D
Image

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:47 am

Lovely.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Yarpus
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1270
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:11 pm

Postby Yarpus » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:51 am

Seeing the face of Pyromancer makes me hate it.
Still, as overall it's legit. Just high-res version of Pyromaster would help a lot.

Also, Warleader's Helix is legit alternative for Stormbitch.

I kinda wish you could use non-Standard card. I'd love to see Ignite Memories as the splash. Such a beautifull and memorable card.

Image
Last edited by Yarpus on Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:55 am

There have been a few times where I've had the choice of a zealot / YP on 2 or a Phoenix on three; or the choice between playing a scryland on 2 with shock up; or just playing a creature. These aren't always easy decisions and I'm getting better at making them. For example;
- against a green deck I want the two drop down, because it's only a matter if time until they get walled so I want some value out if the card. My two drops all need to be in play; AZ for removal tricks and YP for value.
- against black decks I'd rather lead with a Phoenix, since it's better for it to eat removal; this lets me get additional value from magma jet and shock.

So yeah, it sometimes disrupts the curve 1-3 nut draw; but often you'll have other lines you want
anyway;
- play another 1 drop, shock your guy; or
- play another 2 drop, then Phoenix the turn after.

So it tends to be very marginal. This is rarely a turn 4-5 kill deck, even in your best draws anyway.

I do feel that scrylands make a greater range of hands 'good'. I've been able to keep hands like:
- Cackler;
- Shock:
- Mutavault;
- Mountain;
- two scrylands; and
- Chandra.

It's a keep without the scrylands of course; and if they were two sacred foundry you'd still be having them enter tapped. What the scrylands do here is ensure you don't draw 2 more land; you might still draw 2 land, but you would have actually drawn four. The scrylands have a huge effect on the relative strength of this keep.

They're also just the best lands to draw going long (you're inevitably going to draw land), as the scry again lets you dig for the cards you need.

I've found them to be very powerful and very skill rewarding, though they've taken a lot if games to get
comfortable with (scry 1 being so much weaker than scry 2). Of course they're very powerful post board, where I'm bringing in matchup targeted hate; they help you find your best cards, which can be critical, eg: finding a second Reckoner a turn sooner in the semi-mirror.
Alright, Z. You talked me into it (though it wasn't that hard...giggity).

I'm very much on the dragon plan, but I'm gonna go balls deep and go Boros.

And, thanks. :cheers:
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:56 am

Seeing the face of Pyromancer makes me hate it.
Cletus Kassidy before meeting the Venom symbiote.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Yarpus
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1270
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:11 pm

Postby Yarpus » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:02 am

Also, shitty technology: Silence.
T4, gimme one more turn to kill ya bro.
Image

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:04 am

Seeing the face of Pyromancer makes me hate it.
Still, as overall it's legit. Just high-res version of Pyromaster would help a lot.

There are literally no hi-rez versions of the card art out there.
Image

User avatar
InflatablePie
Regular Member
Posts: 429
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:36 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Postby InflatablePie » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:19 am

Went to Wednesday Night Magic yesterday. Was going to make a last-minute decision to run PyroBoros and forgot I left my shocks at home. Whoops.

I actually took notes this time too, so yay. Here's a quick tourney report:
MD: 21 Mountain/2 Muta, 3 Chandra, 2 A-Fires, plus the usual
SB: 4 Reckoner, 4 Mortars, 2 Instinct, 2 Hammer, 3 Peak Eruption


Match 0 (warmup) - BW Midrange

Showed up early to my LGS and played a quick, non-sideboard match against someone else to kill some time. From what I could tell, it was some sort of aggro-midrange shell, running Precinct Captain, some number of Sin Collector, topping off with DDemon and Thune and whatnot.

Game 1: Curved out. Cackler into Zealot into Phoenix and ran him over before he dropped anything of note.

Game 2: Topdecked enough burn to keep him off his lower drop creatures. Ended up trading a Phoenix and a Lightning Strike for an
Archangel at one point, and I'm not sure if it was the right play (he also had a Demon on board iirc). Scooped once he had two Demons on board.

Game 3: I mulled to 6 (I think. notes just say "mull-6"). Mountain x3, Zealot, Phoenix, Chandra (iirc). He shock-Thoughtseized me, grabbing an Ash Zealot. Good play. Ran out double Phoenixes, he had an Obzedat out that he chose not to blink for some reason. Blocked it with a Phoenix next turn, Striked the Obz to kill it with trigger on the stack. swung in and got him to 1. Topdecked the 4th land and played the Chandra.

If I was sideboarding, I probably would have switched two A-Fires for Instinct, and brought in some number of Mortars.

46 players show up. We're doing five rounds, cut to top-8, and anyone that goes 4-1 and doesn't make top 8 gets a free constructed entry for next time. And here we go!


Match 1: Junk Midrange

Yeesh. I remember hoping I didn't get paired against Junk after hearing Z's bad luck with this matchup. He was
playing a Reanimator version. Obz, Angel of Serenity, Giant Adephage, Whip, etc.

Game 1: Won the die roll. He kept a hand with Orz-gate+Temple Garden and Elvish Mystics. Luckily I had Shocks and kept him off mana. He kept digging for a Whip but never got it. Didn't get dealt a point of damage this game.
-4 Satyr, -2 A-Fire
+4 Reckoner +2 Instinct

Game 2: He got some early Communes in, took out some Smiters but eventually he found his Whip and animated an Adephage. No thank you, Game 3.
-2 Reckoner +2 Mortars (I didn't want to cut anything else for Mortars but I wanted them in here. Kept Cacklers since I was on the play and needed to get in early damage.)

Game 3: Grinded things out in this game. Took out a Smiter by blocking with a Zealot and shocking it before regular damage. Traded a Strike+Shock for an Obzedat with the trigger on the stack. Prayed he coudn't find a Whip. He dropped a Shadowborn Demon with not enough creatures in the GY, so it died next turn. He dropped another one, when I
finally drew my 4th land and Instinct'd it for the win.

1-0 (2-1)


Match 2: UW Control

I went in thinking this would be relatively easy. I was wrong. I do love the control matchup though, it's so much fun. Honestly.

Game 1: I lost to a resolved Elspeth fairly early on. All I remember.
-2 Fire +2 Hammer

Game 2: Managed to keep up pressure and not overextend. Knew he didn't have Revelation the way he was playing so I ignored his Jace and swung at him. Misplayed by dropping a YP instead of animating a token, also forgot to swing with a 1/1 after he -2'd Jace. He eventually ended up having to block a creature of mine with a Mutavault, and Last Breath'd it to stay alive. It didn't work out.

Game 3: Hooo boy. I managed to fuck up by dropping two Satyrs and getting them Sphered. The game dragged on until he tapped out, where I dropped Chandra. Tried racing him by +1-ing to threaten an ult, since he already laid down 3 D-Spheres by that point (Satyrs, Hammer, and
one other creature). Sadly he resolved an Elspeth, and I couldn't keep all the damage from the tokens off her. He ulted Jace, Sphered my Chandra, grabbed a Chandra from my deck, ulted Elspeth the next turn, swung in,Charmed for lifelink and dealt 18 to me. Went to 2. He was at 23. I tried swinging at my own Chandra to kill it. He casted Last Breath. :<

1-1 (3-3)


Match 3: Mono Red (AIR?)

Went against a chick playing Mono Red. Saw Dynacharge game 1 but it was more like a regular RDW list otherwise.

Game 1: Dropped Chandra on turn 4 and she did all the work for me.
SB: -8 one drops, -2 A-Fires, +4 Reckoner +4 Mortar, +2 Eruption (wanted to run some number of Eruption, didn't know what to cut for a third so I ran it like this. maybe coulda run one less mortar)

Game 2: Got Anger of the Gods dropped on me three times. It took out one of her own Reckoners once. Interesting sideboard choice... Just kept chucking creatures at her or taking out hers (Mortared a Reckoner,
she dealt 4 to my face when I was at 14 instead of taking out one of my creatures. Ok.). Got her to 11 with five power on board and two mana open EOT. Magma Jet, scry into Magma Jet, game.

2-1 (5-3)


Match 4: GR Midrange

Same GR deck that I lost to last week. This time I was a lot more confident in my play.

Game 1: Kept him off his mana dorks. He dropped a Polukranos that I managed to burn out. Easy match.

SB: -4 Satyr, -4 Cackler, -2 A-Fires, -1 Shock, +4 Reckoner, +3 Eruption, +2 Mortars, +2 Instinct (I kinda forgot what I boarded here tbh.)

Game 2: Kept up pressure with an early YP and tokens. Traded it and a Jet for a Scooze that could have pumped to a 4/4 and stared down an Ember Swallower for a few turns while he flooded out. Kept up pressure with a Reckoner. He did not Monstrous it on his last turn. Not that it would have helped; I had the Instinct in hand and enough mana to win next turn.

3-1 (7-3)

Match 5: BW Midrange

nDifferent deck this time. I could still possibly make top 8 with a win here.

Game 1: Curved out before he dropped a creature. Cackles, Zealot, Phoenix, burn burn burn.

SB: -4 Satyr, -2 A-Fires, +4 Reckoner, +2 Mortars (didn't write it down again)

Game 2: Lost to a big Nighthowler. I know, right? It hurts when it's on an Obzedat and swinging in for 6 and you lack chumpers.

Probably could have sided the Satyrs back in for curve-out potential, but didn't. I think I threw in Instinct this time.

Game 3: Took him to 8 when he dropped Obz (10). Got him down to 5, he went back up to 7. Bestowed a 3/3 Nighthowler, swung in bringing me from 16 to 8 and exiled EOT. I had a Magma Jet he knew I had, and another one I drew the turn before. Phoenix and Reckoner on board, he has two black mana up and I know he's playing Pharika's Cure. I didn't want to waste Scry potential when I could potentially burn him out, so I Jetted him (to 5, sent two Mountains bottom) twice (to 3, keeping Phoenix on top
sending Cackles to bottom). Topdecked Phoenix. Dropped him. Swung with the team, because I didn't want him to have a removal spell this turn and one for next turn and win (Obz ETB and swing brings me to 1, plus he has the 3/3 Howler on field). I think this is the right play. It wasn't. He blocked my Reckoner, Devour Flesh'd his own guy to bring him to 6, back down to 2, then Bestowed another 'howler on the Obz that blinked in. Ugh.

3-2 (8-5)

All in all, I like the way the deck performed this week. I think I'm going to run PyroBoros tomorrow night, as I picked up the cards anyway, at another game store nearby that does free entry. I could use some new decks to play against instead of the same field each week, too. And I hear there's more red decks at that store, which I'm fine against.
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know if you're being lied to?

The answer? Use a gun. And if that don't work... use more gun.

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:21 am

Thanks for the report, Pie! Good work.

Nerdboy: Looks great! Could I request that it be a little more orangey-red? Looks almost pink to me. Will DEFINITELY be the primer pic soon, especially if you could make those changes. You do good work, sir.

This looks like it is higher res for the Pyromancer:
http://www.sheppard-arts.com/blog/img/p ... eppard.jpg
Last edited by Helios on Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 am

Holy shit nuggets you are amazing Helios
Image

User avatar
Helios
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am
Location: Oxford Town

Postby Helios » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:27 am

^ This man knows what's up. See my edit, too.

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:32 am

Thanks for the great report inflatablepie. Reading that reinforces to me how difficult a lot of the decisions are with this deck; in the three weeks I've been playing I swear my win % has improved every week as I've got more comfortable. So keep up the good work! Looks like you had a pretty good grasp of strategy, but do ask if you need any help or have anything you want to discuss :)

So, question time for the Boros players. We've got two Mizzium Mortars in the board; what about two Pacifism?
- mortars is better against blood baron and mono blue (got to get creatures off the field)
- pacifism is better in the mirror on a Phoenix (they can't reassurect it). It's probably even against Reckoner (you don't 2-for-1 yourself, but he's still around for their fanatic of Mogis)
- pacifism is similar against mono black; it answers desecration
demon, but it doesn't get their devotion down. It does keep stuff out of the yard for whip.
- mortars is easier to cast and has overload. These are relevant.

Discuss.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name


Return to “Archives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests