Kaze's Newbie Mafia (Mafia Win)

[Checkbox]

@Checkbox: As I said, my rcw case was weak and it caused me to reconsider my read on him.

We keep changing directions toDay, and I like that Stardust is leading these charges because it reminds me of when Seppel or I are town and we cut ourselves off and go somewhere completely different. More town points to Stardust.

I was more responding to when you early toDay said that casing rcw was a waste of time cause no one read it.

Like I said, I'm ok with any of those three lynches, depending on where other townies feel about putting their votes.

[rcwraspy]

My scumteam read is still TubeHunter and Iso. I think TubeHunter has started to appear a bit more townish with his latest explanations, but I'm not nearly ready to move my vote off him.

I admit I don't really understand why my case on Iso is so flimsy to people. Is it because it's not laden with "scum usually say this, town usually say this"? Well, there's really no way I'd know how to do that on day 2 of my first game. My approach to the game so far has been to look for inconsistencies and odd behavior. Aside from that, I'm not sure what's "normal" for different roles.

However, since it's been said a few times, I think I understand why not having much to say is scummy. Throwing out a guess, is it because scum don't want to say anything that would give them away, and at the same time it lets them see how others are thinking and hop on any argument they think makes them look the best?
If so, I'd definitely agree that imopn2 should post more. Even though everybody thought he was confirmed town with his first post responding to Iso.

[Stardust]

rcw then says its scummy for Iso to focus on the L-2/L-1 typo, but still hasn't actually answered the inconsistencies brought up with his case. rcw, to me, is trying to deflect the pressure being brought on his flimsy case in any way he can.

Stardust, why do you think rcw is town? I don't quite follow your explanation above. This is especially confusing since you acsed him on Page 8 and landed him on scum.

I think you're confusing my case on Red with rcw? rcw's a tricky one because he does scummy things with no scummy intent. Break down a scum mindset from what he's been doing and we can talk. Until then, I'm going to assume he's town because a lot of his moves, while looking off, really don't make sense coming
from scum. I'm not sure what's confusing about my explanation of his mindset regarding TubeHunter/Iso, so ask me questions. He's not cleared by any means, but I won't be voting for him today.

I copied the last bit of your rcw case above as well. I agree with rcw that the L-2/L-1 thing was overblown - it looked a bit twisted from my perspective too, so I can see where he's coming from there. Can you list the inconsistencies that rcw did not address? I went over that case/response quite a few times yesterday and didn't catch that.

"1) If your entire issue with Iso was that he went against the spirit of the game, why did you think Iso was scum?"

When I first went through the thought process of the initial "gamble" post, I wasn't quite comprehending what had happened and was being fairly illogical (along with not
quite knowing how to phrase what I was trying to say). My main thought was (and is) that it does not auto-confirm Iso as town, as you seem to think it does.

That's not what you said at the time.

"2) In light of Suga's flip, what do you think of imopen2? And Iso too, while you're at it."

imopen2 has had like 10 posts all game. He really needs to post more.

Iso... I'm >90% sure he is town, for a variety of reasons. One of which being his response to his case (though its not terribly difficult to look good when a flimsy case like that is thrown at you).

You seemed to think Suga's flip would reveal a whole lot on Iso and imopen's motivations from Day 1. That's what I want to know about. imopen had plenty of content Day 1 at least, so work with that.

"Let's say a hypothetical townie wanted to cast the first real vote on that wagon, following my initial grilling of Suga. How would that townie vote look, in your opinion?"

It would probably consist of reasoning behind the vote. Doesn't even have to be much, but more than "you look scummy now".

Considering I'd basically laid out all there was at the time, what more would this hypothetical townie add? What I'm getting at here is that I don't think there's any way for this vote NOT to look scummy, no matter how it's worded. It's going to be naked or barning me. Therefore, I consider this point against TubeHunter null.

[Stardust]

Though it feels weird that I'm not the one doing it, for once.

My scumteam read is still TubeHunter and Iso. I think TubeHunter has started to appear a bit more townish with his latest explanations, but I'm not nearly ready to move my vote off him.

I admit I don't really understand why my case on Iso is so flimsy to people. Is it because it's not laden with "scum usually say this, town usually say this"? Well, there's really no way I'd know how to do that on day 2 of my
first game. My approach to the game so far has been to look for inconsistencies and odd behavior. Aside from that, I'm not sure what's "normal" for different roles.

However, since it's been said a few times, I think I understand why not having much to say is scummy. Throwing out a guess, is it because scum don't want to say anything that would give them away, and at the same time it lets them see how others are thinking and hop on any argument they think makes them look the best? If so, I'd definitely agree that imopn2 should post more. Even though everybody thought he was confirmed town with his first post responding to Iso.

What do you think about the case on Red? Is it strong/weak? Why? Same question regarding the case on Checkbox.

And, yeah, you got it for the scum lurking thing. It's way too easy to just sit back and jump when the tide shifts.

[imopen2]

[quote="Checkbox » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:24 pmLike I said, I'm ok with any of those three lynches, depending on where other townies feel about putting their votes.[/quote]

I don't like this post. If you can't decide between 3 people (with only 2 scum in the game no less), then you shouldn't let the rest of us decide for you.

I honestly have been wary of iso in this game for a long time. I didn't see the case against him (the one stardust posted) as being flimsy at all. I also think that if iso is scum, that you are probably his partner due to his sudden switch on you in day 1.

reads on the other 3 people (tube, red, and rcw) are hard because they are all new players.

red seems to have scumbag syndrome when it comes to the English language which makes it difficult to discern his intentions.

i'm voting for
tubehunter based mostly on your case of him but also to see how he would react. he shut down initially and I tried to get him to open up. he's done so to some extent but I've left my vote there so far since i'm not sure who to vote instead.

rcw seems to make a lot of poor decisions but i'm not sure if they make him scum.

right now the only person i'm almost positive is town would be stardust.

[RedNihilist]

So, let's try to get back on your posts a bit.

Frankly I've have a question for checkbox and red.

Who are your scum suspects? (Yes, even me, as shocking as that is) why? ( box you don't really have to give your answer on me as we already know, but feel free to add anything)

Frankly, I'm slower than you guys and I can't really come up with things like "two out of these three guys are absolutely scum" because I just can't.
On the other hand, most of the times me and you are included in the pack, and that would logically imply that you are scum, 'cause you know, if only 1 can me town and I know I am town, the other two guys just have to be scum.

Putting that aside, I wanted to investigate Iso but Stardust convinced me to
let him be. We may go back on the issue (I think it would be a very important thing to do tomorrow if we don't hang some mafia), but for the moment I'm happy this way.

Then, above all, you offered us the stronger read so far, with that "I WANNA KNOW THINGS" post you just threw there after my talk with Stardust; I can relate and I understand that you may have just posted without reasoning too much 'bout what you were doing, but that doesn't actually make you more townie.
Also, raspy feels lightly scummy to me, and I don't really like checkbox's attitude "I'm fine with any of these lynches, you guys choose".
imopen and Clownfish just don't sent me positive vibes, but I've got no scum-read on them ATM so whatever.

[RedNihilist]

Frustration. When you are are the fast track to being mislynch number 2 after being fairly certain that you were pretty safe. And when you floundered under pressure like I did, you begin to get frustrated. When I saw your info posts, in my mindset it came out as "tee hee we know info that could help the town but were not going to tell you" also, it's not fun feeling like 1 vs all, and when you hear a suspected town player say they have information you feel like " oh god maybe that info can help me out please Someone help me". As to no never mind post, have you ever been upset and made a bad desicion and knew it was bad but you didn't care cause you were upset? And then later you are like " oh god i fucked up!" That is what happened to
me.

I don't like this post.
Things are already moving off of you, so I don't really get your "OHMYGAWD I'M SO SORRIE" attitude, it's really uncalled for.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 2.04

TubeHunter: Checkbox, imopen2, rcwraspy (L-2)
RedNihilist: TubeHunter, Stardust, Clownfish(L-2)

Not voting: Iso, RedNihilist

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is October 18, 2013 12:00A.M. PST

[RedNihilist]

Correctly identified Suga on day 1 as being too aggressive - this is about the only townie thing I've seen him do.
Up until page 4, he just seemed new to me rather than being scummy. Then on page 4, he feels the need to point out that he has "nothing to hide", and uses the phrase "my poor self". Townies should act with a bit more conviction, no?

I'll take a note about that.
I feel that's really irrelevant, but I'm probably not super partes.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=122873#p122873]Later on Page 7, he starts questioning the accusations of our only confirmed Townie. Despite Suga being wrong about me (I am town), what possible reason would Suga (a townie himself) have to just throw
random accusations out there before he dies? Unless he is a uber-troll, presumably his reads were sincere at that point. The fact that Red tried discrediting them worries me.[/quote]

I'm not getting this slip.
Suga is the only certified townie so far, but his accusations were never actually supported by anything more than a "I'M GETTING LYNCHED, YOU SUCK" attitude.
Also, I may be wrong but I don't see why I should have tried to *discredit* a post that nobody was even taking into account that much about before that anyway?
I feel you're forcing a very weak read here, man.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=122873#p122873]After Red gets cased and voted, he plays the victim like TubeHunter did - "I have been playing poorly, I don't blame you for voting me" and even calls Stardust town for his case... literally the same exact thing TubeHunter did.[/quote]

What are you trying to achieve with this?

[quote="[url=http://diestoremoval.com/
forums/viewtopic.php?p=122873#p122873]Then after he gets some original questioning and thought processes going, he just abandons them very quickly and says "I'm going to go read TubeHunter's posts now". At this point, he should absolutely have some reads going, enough that he shouldn't just have to /barn the "lynch of the day" when his only original content of the game gets questioned a bit.[/quote]

I didn't even vote Tube's lynch, and I've actually tried to get some answers from raspy.
Is it "/barning the lynch of the day"?
I don't know if you're maliciously trying to put me under some bad light or what, but your case seems VERY weak to me.

[RedNihilist]

Vote Count 2.04

TubeHunter: Checkbox, imopen2, rcwraspy (L-2)
RedNihilist: TubeHunter

Not voting: Iso, Stardust, Clownfish, RedNihilist

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is October 18, 2013 12:00A.M. PST

You're missing at least a vote on my head, I think.

~Thank you kindly.

[Stardust]

Forgot to mention that I'll be mostly VLA until Tuesday. Thanksgiving weekend up here in the real world.

[Iso]

Is Red at L-3 or L-2?

[Kazekirimaru]

L-2, to my knowledge.

[Iso]

Okay, thanks.

Let's get a claim, Red.

[RedNihilist]

I'm just a Vanilla Townie

[Iso]

Vote RedNihilist

I think this is the best direction for toDay.

[rcwraspy]

I'm going to keep my vote on TubeHunter. I think the case against RedNihilist is strong and I don't disagree with lynching him, but I'm still more convinced of a TubeHunter/Iso team than one including Red.

[Checkbox]

Vote: RedNihilist

[Checkbox]

Sorry.
Unvote
Vote: RedNihilist

[rcwraspy]

Checkbox, did you just hammer Red? Was there anything in addition to your post on the previous page that prompted it?

[imopen2]

If red flips town, I'm looking into an iso/checkbox team

[TubeHunter]

I'm gone for a day and we get a hammer?!

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 2.05

TubeHunter: imopen2, rcwraspy
RedNihilist: TubeHunter, Stardust, Clownfish, Iso, Checkbox(LYNCH!)

Not voting: RedNihilist

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.


And so, the townies converge upon another of their peers. They punch, kick, beat him with objects. Eventually he stops struggling.

His body limp and exhausted, RedNihilist is dragged towards the tree.

Another branch, another rope, another life taken.

...and another mistake.


As of post #418, RedNihilist has been LYNCHED! He was a Vanilla Townie[
/color].

It is now Night 2. Do Not post. All night actions must be submitted to me by October 16, 2013 12:00A.M. PST. Actions not submitted shall be forfeit.

[Kazekirimaru]

Another sleepless night. Another exhausted morning. Another long walk to the town square.

You were the last to arrive this morning. You look around at your townmates.

Four...five...six...?

One missing.

It appears the Mafia got to someone last night.


Clownfish has died Night 2. He was a Vanilla Townie.

It is now Day 3. With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is October 30, 2013 12:00A.M. PST.

[TubeHunter]

Shouldve done this last day.

Vote: Checkbox

[Checkbox]

Checkbox, did you just hammer Red? Was there anything in addition to your post on the previous page that prompted it?

I said I thought they were all acting scummy and would be comfortable lynching any of them. People agreed on RedNihilist, so I waited for L-1 to make sure the support was there.

With that said, Vote: Tubehunter

He continues to remain my primary target for reasons discussed at length. I will respond to the questions that have been posed since my last tl;dr post, however I was in the hospital yesterday morning for severe back pain and am trying to get caught up on everything before I find time for this.

[Checkbox]

Shouldve done this last day.

Vote: Checkbox

You should find real reasons for voting someone that don't involve OMGUS.

[Checkbox]

And your vote on me without further reasoning is not helping you look more townie in my eyes.

[TubeHunter]

Don't worry bro, I'll make sure you get cased up nice and well. Sorry about your back by the way, always sucks to get injured.


Also, we have to be careful. If we mislynch here, we are in extreme danger of losing barring a miricle like what happened on night 1

[Iso]

Got a question for someone before I put forth my theory.

Hey imopen, where has your previous Mafia experience been from?

[imopen2]

Got a question for someone before I put forth my theory.

Hey imopen, where has your previous Mafia experience been from?

Just here. I have played in all the games so far on DtR, which means two completed games and two in progress games (including this one).

Iso: how do you feel about the checkbox hammer?

[rcwraspy]

Don't worry bro, I'll make sure you get cased up nice and well.

I'm looking forward to reading it, because I agree - at this moment I can't see a townie reason for you to knee-jerk vote Checkbox so quickly in the Day.

@Checkbox. Sorry to hear about your back issues man, that sucks. Hope you recover quickly.

[Stardust]

Also, we have to be careful. If we mislynch here, we are in extreme danger of losing barring a miricle like what happened on night 1

You say this, yet you started off the Day with a naked vote. Why?

There are still two scum left. Everyone needs to be careful with voting as even bringing someone up to two votes could be dangerous. We need to take this Day nice and slow.


Iso, shouldn't we be mass claiming at this point? You're not worried, are you?



Checkbox, who is TubeHunter's buddy? At this point in the game we either catch both scum or none at all, so you need to come up with a realistic
pairing.

Also, what do you think of rcw? You never followed up on my (lack of) explanation regarding why I think he's town. You also never elaborated on what you thought was scummy about him after I asked you for more. It feels like you were being dishonest earlier regarding his "inconsistencies". Maybe even a chainsaw?



rcwraspy, you never answered half of my question from last Day. What do you think of the case on Checkbox and why?

[Stardust]

Vote RedNihilist

I think this is the best direction for toDay.

Just want to go back to this for a sec. Why did you think this was the best direction yesterDay, Iso? You never really gave much reasoning of your own for suspecting Red that I can recall.

[rcwraspy]

rcwraspy, you never answered half of my question from last Day. What do you think of the case on Checkbox and why?

From what I can tell the case on Checkbox is spread among many posts, not a single neat and tidy post. Also by various people. I'll have to spend some time reading back through it all before answering.

My initial thought for the day, though, is that as of right now, especially after the RedNihilist lynch and Clownfish night kill, I see no reason to deviate from my Day2 read that the scum team is TubeHunter and Iso. TubeHunter coming in with a fast vote on Checkbox without giving any reason supports this.

[Checkbox]

There is very good evidence in this thread that Iso is town.

[TubeHunter]

@stardust

I realized this after the fact. But my vote still stands. I'm not going to appease people with an unvote. A case is coming.

[imopen2]

There is very good evidence in this thread that Iso is town.

Care to point it out?

[Stardust]

There is very good evidence in this thread that Iso is town.

There is very good evidence in this thread that Iso is claiming a power role, which is usually the same thing, but not necessarily so. Especially in Iso's case. But we'll deal with that in a bit.

Also, answer my questions.

[Iso]

Got a question for someone before I put forth my theory.

Hey imopen, where has your previous Mafia experience been from?

Just here. I have played in all the games so far on DtR, which means two completed games and two in progress games (including this one).

Iso: how do you feel about the checkbox hammer?

Thanks. That makes this easier, then.

I think Checkbox is scum.

-

@Stardust: I was thinking about the massclaim, yeah.

I gave plenty of reasons for suspecting Red. I never explicitly laid out a case, no, but it should be fairly obvious why I thought he was
scum if you follow my questions and pushes on him.