[Primer] PyroRed

[zemanjaski]

This deck really just wants a better spell than Flames to maindeck; something like Arc Trail or Burst Lightning; just a bit faster to interact. Something to look for next set.

[Valdarith]

I played a very similar deck at States, with -4 Satyr, +2 Legion Loyalist, +2 Frostburn Weird maindeck because I couldn't get Satyrs in one day's notice (note: NOT TCGPlayer States, the other one). My observations:

1) Flames of the Firebrand was underwhelming for me, but then again of my six matches I played one control deck and four midrange decks. I still think two mainboard is correct as it's nice to have another burn spell that can do three damage, and it's the absolute tits against aggro.

2) Jace is pretty rough since it nullifies our tokens, but we know this already. No reason not to play Young Peezy.

3) Knowing when to +1 Chandra or 0 her is not a trivial decision. Her +1 will net you more damage over time based on board state, but sometimes you just want that extra creature to further develop your board.

4) Lots of keepable hands with this deck. Against a midrange/control deck I actually kept a hand of
4x Mountain, Mutavault, Cackler, Zealot on the play and got there because I KNEW he was running a ton of Temples. Of note, I ended up drawing a Legion Loyalist, another Mutavault, Mountain, and Mountain.

5) Z commented that he's kept a hand with no creatures but won. This has me wondering about a hand I mulled in my final matchup. It was 3x Mountain, 2x Mizzium Mortars, 2x Act of Treason vs Junk midrange with me on the play. Certainly that's a mulligan, right? If it had been 2x Mountain, 1x Mutavault, is that also a mull?

[F.I.A]

F.I.A.: The presence of Fanatic, Cackler, and BTE make me loath to cut Shock. We've been talking about Vaults today as well, and came to the same conclusion.

You can't kill Fanatic of Mogis with spark jolt.
You can't kill Ash Zealot with spark jolt.

Indeed, but I still think it warrants some test, which I will be doing tonight. It would be a no-brainer if its scry was 2 instead of 1, to be honest.

@Zemansjaki: Arc Trail would be superb in this meta with all the BTEs running around.

@Valdarith: Well, to be fair,
Zem's hand has a Chandra, so it was a better hand.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah that hands a mull Val; my hand had a clear path to victory ~ resolve and protect Chandra, yours doesn't. Good call.

[windstrider]

I get the feeling you're looking at the deck entirely wrong. This isn't a turn 4 kill deck, or even a turn 5 kill deck.

I may be. Guess i just need to sleeve it up and play and figure it out.

I almost didn't run mine because it looked underpowered at first glance. You really should try it out. A lot of the synergies can just spring up out of nowhere. Even better, you can engineer a lot of the synergies with careful gameplay.

Go to the face with Shock when you need a Phoenix back or your opponent is down to two life. Otherwise, save them. The Shocks turn your
creatures into 4-power killers, especially Ash Zealot. Your opponents will get very nervous about combat after they see you holding at least one mana open. It gets even better with a Pyromancer on the field.

[zemanjaski]

I've used shock as a 1 mana draw 2 so many times...

[windstrider]

@z That's a good feeling.

[F.I.A]

Though I think there is a question for this deck - Will you use that Shock to the dome in response to your opponent killing your Pyro to net yourself a 1/1 out of the deal? Sometimes you need to do just that to keep the pressure on the board. I've played against decks that threw out an Anger on a board with just a 1/1 elemental and Pheonix.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I won't say it hasn't happened.

[Mage of hot stuff]

Yo, whats up everyone! ive been playing magic for some time and only red. I just discovered these forums and I cant believe the great info ive found. I have a current version of this pyrored build im going to begin to run. Im missing a few cards that are on their way. 2x Ash Zealot, 2x [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card], 1x Firedrinker satyr, 4x Boros Reckoner, 1x Mutavault. The rest of the cards i have, The spots needing to be filled, have been filled with 4x Guttersnipe, and 1x Rakdos cackler.

Please let me know what ya think!

[deck]Hot Fiya[/deck]

First off i have read tons of hate that people have for Purphoros, God of the forge, however, besides the awesome synergy he has been having with guttersnipe and YP, The first booster i opened out my fatpack of theros came with a sexy foily version of the big homie. So im keeping it in regardless lol. Plus i have actually had enough devotion a few times in playing to make him go off. So I know when the rest of my cards get here, it will happen more often then naught. Plus its just 2 awesome cards i feel that will benefit me, just like some people choose to use his hammer instead.
How do you all feel about my deck? Im constantly play testing it everyday with friends, i should have the rest of my babies here before FNM.

[Platypus]

^Drop the card-tags inside the deck-tag...

[Mage of hot stuff]

^Drop the card-tags inside the deck-tag...

lol yeah i realized that, and immediately fixed. Mad i spent an extra 3 minutes going thru to add the tags haha xD

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd like to note that while frostburn weird isn't irrelevant in the mirror, I never want to play it. It's not boros reckoner so why do you care?

I've also been experimenting with the mirror(0 and a million recently. Very frustrating, though I THINK just do to stumbling) and I think a valid strategy assuming you have some instant burn in your hands is to just play draw go for as long as you can. The easiest way to beat boros reckoner is to kill it when you don't have creatures on board and if your hand is a million lightning strikes, shocks, and an ash zealot, I feel comfortable not playing my ash zealot and just burning there guys out tempoing them until I know I can have Ashley be worth at least 2 damage and a card as opposed to cast, swing, get magma jetted, cry.

RE: Flames, I'm actually considering just having annihilating fire in that slot. Card is bad, but it kills voice so you don't lololoutvalued and
randomly also eats oozes food. I'll update my list and post it tomorrow along with contributing to the discussion on manabases and the hammer slot. I really like 20 mountain, 2 muta and would love 20 mountain, 3 muta, but I want 3 muta's main at least and I don't want to cut the P because it's what imo pushes our deck from fringe tier 1 to fuck yo couch nigga I can beat any matchup tier 1.

[F.I.A]

Annihilating Fire could also work in mirror in killing off that recurring Phoenix, since we no longer have Pillar of Flame for that job.

[photodyer]

I don't know if I could bring myself to play Annihilating Fire...when you consider that it has the exact same casting cost as Anger it looks pretty anemic even at instant rather than sorcery-speed. Yeah yeah, making the best of what we have and all that, but I WANT IT ALL!

But to be honest, I'm glad that truly playable exile is a a minimum right now so that Phoenix is playable!

[zemanjaski]

Cashed in two more events, should be able to put up some matchup specific guides soon. More importantly, went 3-0 (6-1) against Devotion Red; so if you're having trouble, I'll be able to help.

[windstrider]

Cashed in two more events, should be able to put up some matchup specific guides soon. More importantly, went 3-0 (6-1) against Devotion Red; so if you're having trouble, I'll be able to help.

Oh, that would be very much appreciated.

Re: Annihilating Fire. Getting rid of an opposing Voice, Phoenix, or Reckoner is a big thing. It's instant speed, which can help get another guy out of Young Pyro on their turn. It also goes to the face to get your own Phoenix back. It can also be another combat trick with the two power guys, something which neither Flames of the Firebrand nor Anger can do. It's not a great card by any means, but it does have its uses.

[dejection]

Tested against UW, GR today, won about 40% today. But that's even with me having to mulligan a lot. The deck can randomly win from the worst positions.

I haven't tried reckoners against devotion red yet. Can you just go over how the matchup usually plays out?

[Elricity]

Keep zealot/reckoner/phoenix for defense and remove as many of their RR permanents as possible. Resolve Chandra and win.

[F.I.A]

Played a 2-man queue vs a GWr today.
Game 1: He has two target available for me to use Spark Jolt - Elvish Mystic and Satyr Hedonist. I managed to get virtual CA against him by charging a Young Pyromancer at his Loxodon Smiter (tapped out) and then Magma Jet. I later proceeded to overwhelm him in the air.
Game 2: I shot down everything, but a lone Scavenging Ooze. The Ooze started to chow up things that it ended up being a 12/12 at the end of the game. How did I survive? Why, I walled him with an elemental each, having Chandra to give me CA. She was dispatched by a Selesnya Charm'd Ooze, but I managed to draw and drop another for lethal.

So far, [card]Spark Jolt[/card:
2iy4xpcq] has been rewarding. I have actually kept a hand of 5 Mountains, Magma Jet and Spark Jolt once and managed to go through. Yeah, I know it's a risky keep, but it just shows how great scry can be in multiple.

[Elricity]

Sounds like he forgot he's the beatdown deck vs Pyrored.

Game 1 blocking YP into obvious removal was the wrong call without his own combat trick. Although, in this scenario, you didn't get card advantage (he 1 for 1.5'd you at worst).

Game 2 he should have attacked you, not Chandra unless he was dead on board next turn to her.

[F.I.A]

Game 1: I still get a 1/1 out of the deal. Considering I have a phoenix (And another from scrying with Magma Jet), it's worth the trade. You won't want him to later drop an Unflinching Courage or something.
Game 2: He will need to connect two attacks to kill me off, while Chandra has been fetching me cards to generate more elementals.

[Elricity]

Game 1: I agree with you that it was a good play on your part. It was a bad play on his part to block. His life total matters less than yours in this matchup. He shouldn't have fallen for it but it cost you nothing to attempt it. He was probably concerned you could lightning strike/elemental block his creature so he went for the better option. Best option was to wait for selesnya charm or unflinching courage and have a beater that's much harder for you to stop.

Game 2: He should have played into the possibility that he draws another charm or unflinching courage for lethal. Killing Chandra doesn't help him win the game, just lose it slower (which is what happened).

Did he ever get aggressive either game?

[windstrider]

This deck has a lot of ways to pressure players into making bad decisions.

[Jack]

Thoughts I'm having as I post this. Grammar might not be so good; I just want to get everything down in writing then get a few opinions on it.

I'm seriously considering dropping Weirds and Flames in the board for a set of Reckoners, and consequently changing the SB Mutavault to a Mountain. This should improve our already favored position against many of the bigger aggro decks. Flames + Weird still seems better against devotion red without the transformational sideboard, but Reckoners are also very good. My one concern (and I think I mentioned this earlier in the post where I first threw out the idea) is that we now have two less cards to bring in against control (Weirds). I haven't tested too much against green midrange, but I think it would also be appropriate to bring in Weird for some of your lower-impact spells (creature or otherwise) here.
Z, is this thought process similar to yours when you changed the SB up
a bit? Because right now, I'm thinking that Skullcrack wouldn't be that bad of a card to add so that we have more to bring in against control after we cut Weird. I really like Weird, but Reckoner seems like a slightly better card against a number of popular decks. Also starting to think that Burning Earth isn't the greatest card right now. However, you built yours specifically for an online meta, while I'm building for an unknown paper meta.
Questions for you guys:
How does my sideboard plan look right about now? Is there anything that you do differently which has yielded good results?

I'm confused on just how much to SB against both green and black based midrange. Do you guys usually sideboard heavily against those decks, or do you only bring in Mortars and threatens? I see some more things that might be good if I brought them in (Weird (Reckoner), Hammmer, Mutavault (Mountain)), along with what doesn't seem like it is part of the strongest path to victory (Satyr, Cackler, and possibly
burn spells), but I can't make up my mind about what replaces what. I guess my plan could be - 1 drops + threatens, Mortars, Hammer and Mountain, but I want to do more. I think I might want to bring in Weirds (or Reckoners) for FotF. The question is that if I bring in Reckoners I want the full four, finding two more spells to cut to make room for them or just bringing in two for two FotF and being fine with that.

Also, I realized that my view of the metagame was way too narrow. There are a lot more midrange variants than I had realized or prepared for. What do we know about:
-Junk Midrange
-Naya Midrange
-Big Boros (I don't know how I forgot this one)
What is our plan agianst them, and how do we board against them?

[Helios]

freedom, have you red Z's latest update? It's the 2nd post in the thread. That's basically what the sideboard is now. Your reasoning there is sound.

[Jack]

I know that there is reasoning behind my choices (after all, I made them myself ), but my main questions are how my sideboard plans will change as a result. I don't think I want Skullcrack very much because control decks aren't as popular as they were 10 days ago, though they remain very popular on MTGO, which gives Z a good reason to run four copies. I've begun to realize that Dega mid is actually a fairly easy matchup now that I know my deck and its capabilities much better.
I really haven't tested much against nonblack midrange, and this is the source of many of my uncertainties. I know that many of you guys have, so I'd like to hear about your findings. I'm assuming that everyone's sideboard is similar to mine, since I built mine mostly off of what I had gathered from all of you.

[JWarson88]

I find that I often want reckoner in the main so ive been testing a variant that eschews the one drops

[deck]Creatures

4 Ash Zealot
4 Young P Money
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra Phoenix

Phat Ass
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Annihilating Fire

Artifacts
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Land

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault

Sideboard

1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet
3 Act of Treason
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ratchet Bomb[/deck]

I like the Reckoners main, but and I don't miss the one drops too much. Often, I have to play defense and where out my opponents. So far Ive beaten u/b 2-1 and green stompy 2-1. I kinda miss the free wins against control with the one drops
but i feel reckoner is really main board, but i could be wrong. I want to test way more before I make any definitive opinions. Only option i see to combat opposing reckoners is to mb firefist striker.

[Elricity]

Question. If everyone is moving away from burning earth, what do you lose/gain going boros?

Seems like you lose either 1 drops or mutavaults. You gain boros charm and/or warleader's helix for a better ultimate and YP protection, and a better removal package.

I've only tested the boros version and I can't pretend it's tested amazingly yet but I also wasn't expecting all the midrange.

[Helios]

Sorry I misunderstood, freedom. Against midrange you generally take out the one-drops and Flames (?) bring in Mortars, Reckoners, Act of Treason, and the Mountain.

[zemanjaski]

Thoughts I'm having as I post this. Grammar might not be so good; I just want to get everything down in writing then get a few opinions on it.

I'm seriously considering dropping Weirds and Flames in the board for a set of Reckoners, and consequently changing the SB Mutavault to a Mountain. This should improve our already favored position against many of the bigger aggro decks. Flames + Weird still seems better against devotion red without the transformational sideboard, but Reckoners are also very good. My one concern (and I think I mentioned this earlier in the post where I first threw out the idea) is that we now have two less cards to bring in against control (Weirds). I haven't tested too much against green midrange, but I think it would also
be appropriate to bring in Weird for some of your lower-impact spells (creature or otherwise) here.
Z, is this thought process similar to yours when you changed the SB up a bit? Because right now, I'm thinking that Skullcrack wouldn't be that bad of a card to add so that we have more to bring in against control after we cut Weird. I really like Weird, but Reckoner seems like a slightly better card against a number of popular decks. Also starting to think that Burning Earth isn't the greatest card right now. However, you built yours specifically for an online meta, while I'm building for an unknown paper meta.
Questions for you guys:
How does my sideboard plan look right about now? Is there anything that you do differently which has yielded good results?

I'm confused on just how much to SB against both green and black based midrange. Do you guys usually sideboard heavily against those decks, or do you only bring in Mortars and threatens? I see some more things that might be good if I
brought them in (Weird (Reckoner), Hammmer, Mutavault (Mountain)), along with what doesn't seem like it is part of the strongest path to victory (Satyr, Cackler, and possibly burn spells), but I can't make up my mind about what replaces what. I guess my plan could be - 1 drops + threatens, Mortars, Hammer and Mountain, but I want to do more. I think I might want to bring in Weirds (or Reckoners) for FotF. The question is that if I bring in Reckoners I want the full four, finding two more spells to cut to make room for them or just bringing in two for two FotF and being fine with that.

Also, I realized that my view of the metagame was way too narrow. There are a lot more midrange variants than I had realized or prepared for. What do we know about:
-Junk Midrange
-Naya Midrange
-Big Boros (I don't know how I forgot this one)
What is our plan agianst them, and how do we board against them?

Matchup guide coming tonight (my time). Ill use this as the basis of answering
sideboardibg questions since there are lots of really good questions in there.

If anyone else has a burning question, post it up and ill answer it as well.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've tested against the new junk whip deck(which is very good) and I've found the matchup is close but doable. Basically, they have draws that are very good against us, but they also play three colors so it's about even. The matchup generally involves you getting them to around burn range and they either stabilize with ooze/whip/obzedat, or they lose game 1. Their best draws involve multiple sylvan caryatids buying them time to draw into a win con, or to sandbag an ooze until a million dudes are in the yard.

Postboard, they have more removal and unflinching courage, but we can fight through that. The biggest "blowout" they have is golgari charm as a combat trick/wrath and courage is obviously good, but I've found the boarded matchups to be not bad. I've been winning a fair amount of games with Seismic Stomp/Traitorous instinct, and Chandra. If you can have either a Chandra or reckoner stick around for a few
turns, you give yourself a good chance in this matchup. Since they play a million dorks, they have a non-insignificant amount of air half the time giving us virtual card advantage in the games where they're unable to play a turn 4 obzedat or whatever and with falters and threatens, you can have your opponent just dead when they think they can take over the game next turn.

Vs. Naya, similar concepts apply though they have less lifegain and more big creatures.

[zemanjaski]

What's your 15 card sideboard LP? Sounds spicy.

[Helios]

Second that request.

[LP, of the Fires]

1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
1 Seismic Stomp
2 Traitorous Instinct
4 Flex slots

Playing Peak eruption cause local store. Would honestly be comfortable with those in a random field, but could easily be 3 mortars, 1 annihilating fire, or 4 mortars if I can find space for the 2nd Fire in the main.

I actually am liking the card more and more since it kills voice and phoenix permanently and also answers fleecemane, reckoner, and mini-ooze while simultaneously devaluing ooze.

[zemanjaski]

Cool, we're broadly similar. You still have 1 hammer main right?

I think you've convinced me that Traitorous Instinct > Act of Treason; it's just a more powerful card and I don't need the effect on curve.

[Yarpus]

I'd use AoT over Traitorous Instincts with some Barrage of Expendables. 4 mana Slave of Bolas with ping is good from what I've heard.

[LP, of the Fires]

Yeah, while at states, all the other red mages where telling me how much more powerful instinct was and you really only cast it as a finisher. It's VERY sweet.

And yeah, I have the hammer main.

[Helios]

Thanks LP, that's a great observation.

[LP, of the Fires]

Not only am I playing annihilating fire, I'm ENJOYING it.

It is confirmed. I enjoy putting niche bad cards in my red decks. To bad barrage of expendables is less powerful then everything else I'm playing. I love unique powerful affects.