[Primer] RDW

[Helios]

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Artifacts
1 Hammer of Purphoros


Burn
2 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault


Sideboard
3 Act of Treason
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Frostburn Weird
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

The sideboard is bad largely because of card availability; I wasn’t able to acquire Mortars, Loyalists, or Burning Earths so I just used what I had.

26 person FNM at my LGS; 5 rounds, prize-out top 8.

Round 1: Joshua playing Esper

G1: I had a decent opener, but he was able to kill/Dsphere everything and then resolve an elspeth on turn 6.

G2: He durdled, I attacked, the end. Standard plan of play two threats, swing, the die, repeat until dead.

G3: I
mulled all the way to 5 without seeing a land, kept a no-land triple Firedrinker hand. It did not end well.

0-1


Round 2: Allen playing Gruul

G1: I had a Firedrinker and Mutavault to his double Caryatid, and he then proceeded to resolve threat after threat. I couldn’t keep up.

Sideboard: Took out one-drops, brought in Reckoners, 4th Chandra, Mutavault, Act of Treasons

G2: He only had one Caryatid, so we fought a little bit until he gleefully resolved a Stormbreath on turn 6. I pretended to be very sad, and took 4. He was low enough on life that he left it untapped to block the next turn, but Monstrous’d it to ping me for one. That one card was Act of Treason, so next turn I took his dragon.

G3: This was a nail-biter. He ended up with 3 Caryatid on the field after mulling to a 5 card, 1 land hand and drawing land for 5 consecutive turns. Unfortunately for him, I can count to 20 so I was able to swing for lethal into a board of 3 Caryatid, 2 Stormbreaths, and a 7/7 Ooze.

1-1


Round 3:
Nathan with UW Master of Waves

G1: I had the nuts. Only cards I saw from him were a Hallowed Fountain, Guildgate, and Mutavault. Assumed UW control.

G2: This was an excellent game. He played Blind Obedience on turn 2, so my hand of double Ash Zealot and Phoenix got much worse. He was able to Verdict/Dsphere each threat I played, though eventually I got him to 7 life. I tried too hard to bait counterspells when he was at 7; instead of burning to the face to make it 1, I played two creatures. In retrospect, that was the wrong play because a burn spell off the top would have sealed the deal and forced him to deal with my creatures immediately or die. He got me to 4 between Blind Obedience and Mutavaults (they did work in his deck), and then swung with an unblockable Thassa for lethal.

G3: He curved Frostburn -> Frostburn -> Master of Waves, and then I died.

1-2

Round 4: Jacob with Dega

G1: Curved out and was able to play through Anger for the win.

G2: I got him to 13 before he landed
a reckoner, and I had no burn in hand so I could only swing through with Phoenix. That eventually forced him to Anger, after which he landed a blood baron to my double Reckoner. He Angered again, but I was able to Strike his baron to take it out as well. He then resolved an Elspeth on an empty field and rode her to victory.

G3: Sided my one-drops back in and nutdrew him. Their mana is just soooo bad that he wouldn’t have been able to cast anger until turn 4 at the earliest, and I took advantage of his opening play of Temple or Silence -> Godless shrine to over commit to the board and race. Then he played Sacred Foundry. Then Temple of Triumph, and he died.

2-2

Round 5: Phillip with RUG.

Philip was playing such all-stars as Goblin test pilot and Ordeal of Nylea. While chatting during the game, I discovered that he was there to pick up dudes. Don’t know if he seriously wanted to play magic or not, but I tried to give what pointers I could. The main one being “Don’t play Goblin Test Pilot.”

3-
2

Several of the other 3-2s colluded to screw up the tie-breaks, and my buddy who was 4-1 ended up in 5th (There was only one “undefeated” person…his opponent scooped to him for 12 packs). My tie-breaks put me in 9th, so no prizes.


Overall, the deck performed admirably. Note that I never played against any of the 13 Fanatic decks that were present. Flames was probably the “worst” card in the deck. Young Pyromancer didn’t do a whole lot, but again, that was probably the matchups more than anything. He got D-sphered/burned on sight most games I played him, which probably means he is good. Act of Treason did a lot of work, and I’d even hazard that if Barrage makes it to the main deck we add the fourth Act to the board. I won one of the Dega games by taking Blood Baron, though that wasn’t in my notes so something went wrong in the description above.

Question, comments, concerns, or angry outbursts will be taken at this time.

[DarthStabber]

Yeah, peak eruptions are okay tech against aotg, but not against mirrors, or even mono red. In those matchups it's stonerain+lava spike, which isn' great (it might manascrew AIR with their low land count, and against BAI I can hit their sacred foundries which is viscious, it's still golden against big red, but against more tradition sligh style RDWs it just ). The real reason for the peak eruptions is patriot decks, especially those with chained to the rocks.

As far as mutavaults I think two is sufficient for devotion based rdw, any more and you will occasionally have issues hitting zealot, freak, or frosty on turn 2.

[DarthStabber]

My deck really needs those.
Also god, my deck is so techy as it's filled with shitty cards like Barrage of Expendables, Goblin Diplomats and Shocks. I love it. I just love it so much. I feel that my inner MTG hipster is just happy.
And what's the worst - those cards just work.

Don't be too proud of this techy terror you have created. The ability to destroy specific matchups is insignificant next to the power of consistency.

[zemanjaski]

Only Yarpus would be 1 week into the season and posting a "finished deck".

Don't ever change redbro.

[Khaospawn]

My deck really needs those.
Also god, my deck is so techy as it's filled with shitty cards like Barrage of Expendables, Goblin Diplomats and Shocks. I love it. I just love it so much. I feel that my inner MTG hipster is just happy.
And what's the worst - those cards just work.

Don't be too proud of this techy terror you have created. The ability to destroy specific matchups is insignificant next to the power of consistency.

Everything you say is awesome.

[Gigex]

I noticed some of you guys opted to drop the Firefist Striker from the pyrored version of the deck. It seems that the striker is the only real way to remove big blockers we can't burn, like smiter, frostburn weird etc, or at least one of the more reliable ways. My question is ........why? Is this a meta call? Do you find battalion too difficult to set up? Do you need more burn for pyromancer? I don't think the ability to effectively tap down a blocker against midrange should be overlooked

[Helios]

I found my hand getting too cloggy with him., though with Naya apparently being a thing he gets better.

[Khaospawn]

The deck focuses more on Controlling a game than going "ALL-IN. " FFS is suited more for BTE builds, which allows you to flood the board. Z's deck wants to maximize pure card advantage to win games, something that Red rarely gets a chanc to do. In fact, Red has never had it this good.

We have a Red Mind Sculptor.

I'll let that sink in.

Granted, she's good. It's just hard to make allowances for FFS to be her best.

[zemanjaski]

I noticed some of you guys opted to drop the Firefist Striker from the pyrored version of the deck. It seems that the striker is the only real way to remove big blockers we can't burn, like smiter, frostburn weird etc, or at least one of the more reliable ways. My question is ........why? Is this a meta call? Do you find battalion too difficult to set up? Do you need more burn for pyromancer? I don't think the ability to effectively tap down a blocker against midrange should be overlooked

I'm mostly facing red mirrors and UW control and FFS is horrible there. If we start seeing base green decks again ill want him though.

[Gigex]

aahhhhhh kk I hear you man, the lists make more sense now

[Zooligan]

I went to FNM tonight and went 4-0-1, drawing out for first. Heres the deck i ran.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandras Pheonx
4 Fanatic of Mogis

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

2 Chandra, Pyromasncer
1 Hammer of Purp

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

Maybe ill switch back to 4 shredfreaks again. Having 10 burn spells felt really relevent every game as well. helped me finish them off.

What would come out for the freaks? The Reckoners?

[DarthStabber]

I'm mostly facing red mirrors and UW control and FFS is horrible there.

That's probably explains the difference in what you are using compared to what's been working for me. The only red mirror i've tested against with any frequency is big red midrange usually with (m)ember swallower, the most common matchups are esper control, MBC, patriot control, gruul midrange, selesnya aggro and naya aggro. I'm already out running everything but seles and naya, so I tend to keep the control pieces in the board, and just tune the main for speed.

[Khaospawn]

I went to FNM tonight and went 4-0-1, drawing out for first. Heres the deck i ran.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandras Pheonx
4 Fanatic of Mogis

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

2 Chandra, Pyromasncer
1 Hammer of Purp

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

Maybe ill switch back to 4 shredfreaks again. Having 10 burn spells felt really relevent every game as well. helped me finish them off.

What would come out for the freaks? The Reckoners?

-2 Chandra, -1 Hammer, -2 Mutavault, +4 Rakdos
Shred-Freak, +1 Mountain

[Narcasus]

This is correct

[Haiiro Sedai]

I went to FNM tonight and went 4-0-1, drawing out for first. Heres the deck i ran.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandras Pheonx
4 Fanatic of Mogis

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

2 Chandra, Pyromasncer
1 Hammer of Purp

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

Maybe ill switch back to 4 shredfreaks again. Having 10 burn spells felt really relevent every game as well.
helped me finish them off.

What would come out for the freaks? The Reckoners?

-2 Chandra, -1 Hammer, -2 Mutavault, +4 Rakdos Shred-Freak, +1 Mountain

So you want him to just fold to U/W or midrange decks? Speed is nice and all But playing 0 chandra/muta/hammer can't be right.

[Khaospawn]

I went to FNM tonight and went 4-0-1, drawing out for first. Heres the deck i ran.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandras Pheonx
4 Fanatic of Mogis

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

2 Chandra,
Pyromasncer
1 Hammer of Purp

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

Maybe ill switch back to 4 shredfreaks again. Having 10 burn spells felt really relevent every game as well. helped me finish them off.

What would come out for the freaks? The Reckoners?

-2 Chandra, -1 Hammer, -2 Mutavault, +4 Rakdos Shred-Freak, +1 Mountain

So you want him to just fold to U/W or midrange decks? Speed is nice and all But playing 0 chandra/muta/hammer can't be right.

How is he going to "fold" to U/W or midrange? He'll be playing more hasty guys, which is very, very good against U/W. Second, is midrange even a deck right now? Regardless, speed is what will help beat the midrange decks.

A Mogis deck is not PyroRed. It wins differently. It has different objectives. It can play without Mutavaults, without maindeck Hammer, and without maindeck Chandras. I'm not advocating removing
Chandra and Hammer from the 75, just relocating them to the board.

In my games, I found Shred-Freak to be very good against a lot of decks. Obviously it comes out in the Aggro match-ups.

For some more insight, read the Devotion Red Primer.

[Gigex]

This may seem greedy, but do you guys think pyromancer's gauntlet has a place here? Just as a 1 of. There is enough burn in the pyrored lists and there is also chandra. Maybe if we drop a shock and a chandra for the gauntlet and a land?

[deck]
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
2 Flames of the Firebrand

2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet

3 Mutavault
20 Mountain[/deck]

[NorthRaptor]

Here is the version I have been testing to good success on MTGO. The only matchup I have difficulty with (usually lose 1-2) is to GW, and I mostly concede that it is our closest matchup to an auto-loss.

Some of my thoughts first: I am running the hasty version of the deck. I have not found firefist strike to be as relevent as I like. I have included him in all of my decklists, but am currently playtesting without it with ok results. I am not running Chandra, although it is a decent card, I just can't seem to want to drop $40 to playtest 2 cards that may not even make the 75. I am currently running 4 satyr but I think 2 may be the right number.

[deck]
Land
20 Mountain
1 Mutavault

Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells
3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet

SB
3 Act of
Treason
3 Burning Earth
1 Electrickery
2 Goblin Shortcutter
2 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wild Ricochet[/deck]

[photodyer]

I'm porting this over here from the clan thread discussion. James (no surprise) is up and jamming on MODO and these are his comments from this morning:

---------------------------------------

by zemanjaski 10/6/13, in response to the following comment by dejection:

"I tested PyroRed against devotion red today, and it felt 60-40 pre-board with the maindeck flames, 50-50 otherwise. Every time I got a 2-for-1 with flames it was an auto win. But post-board after he boarded out all his x/1s the matchup felt 20-80. When I'm trying to grind him out with removal and a hammer, the combination of phoenix, reckoner, and stormbreath dragon means that almost every game we both end up in topdeck mode, where maybe I have a left over mutavault hitting him. Except he's
at 16 life and I'm at 3. And I die to every single top deck ever. It doesn't feel realistic to fight reckoners without your own reckoners."


Yeah. I agree. Reckoner is BY FAR the best card in the matchup. Here's my current 75:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Legendary Artifacts
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Sorceries
1 Flames of the Firebrand[/b]

Lands
20 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard
2 Act of Treason
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Skullcrack
[/deck]

Now, the Skullcracks are overkill. However, half my matches were UWx control, so I want it to be 80%+. You won't see that in paper,
so you have room for other stuff instead.

Now, honestly, YP is feeling very slightly underpowered. There are certainly games YP just completely takes over; but there are also games where it's just a 2/1. I think that without 16 spells, there just isn't quite enough to justify the card ~ I want something more consistent.

I'm open to -4 YP, -1 Flames of the Firebrand, +4 Boros Reckoner, +1 Mutavault. I don't know how this effects the control matchup (a 2/1 for 2 is probably slightly worse than a 3/3 for 3 there) and it would probably help the matchup with green and red decks.

So, with that in mind, maybe the Mogis deck is just better right now? Still, I did cash in two events and went 70%+ for wins; there are some ideas I want to try out before changing anything dramatically.

I do think RTs list with 24 land, Phoenix, Reckoner and Dragons is probably very good right now. The card advantage engineß in standard are awful, so just top decking really good cards is probably enough.

--------------
---------------
[/channelingzeman]

[Helios]

The only matchup I have difficulty with (usually lose 1-2) is to GW, and I mostly concede that it is our closest matchup to an auto-loss.

GW is by no means an auto-loss, or even close to that. Consider playing more burn so that you can hit their creatures. Less than 4 Magma Jet seems like a mistake.

[zemanjaski]

After ~8 hours of play yesterday

[deck]PyroRed Sligh v1.3[/deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Legendary Artifact
1 Hammer of Purphorous

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Sorceries
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Lands
20 Mountain
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
2 Act of Treason
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Hammer of Purphorous
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Skullcrack
[/deck]

Went 3-1 and 4-0 in two events.

Notable Changes:
Maindeck: -1 Mutavault, +1 Mountain
While 19 + 3 is mathematically correct, and I think in a slightly slower meta optimal, that Rx seems to be ~40% of the online meta
means I want an even lower stumble rate (RR on 3 is very important in this deck). This hurts my control matchup very slightly, but that's already really good. The 20th red source also makes the new Boros Reckoners in my sideboard better.

Sideboard: -1 Act of Treason, -1 Barrage of the Expendables, -3 Burning Earth, -2 Flames of the Firebrand, -1 Mizzium Mortars; +4 Boros Reckoner, +4 Skullcrack
Huge changes here, as after some serious testing (I played 20 matches yesterday, for 15-5 inc. two punts, sigh) I really got to grips with what cards really matter. Basically, Burning Earth was underwhelming, mostly because even three colour decks are running 6-7 basics now and tapping out turn 4 or 5 to not affect the board isn't as strong then. Skullcrack is cheap enough that I can play a threat and keep mana up for it. It also plays better with Phoenix and Young Pyromancer. My aggro sideboard package gave way to the realisation that all you want in the mirror and against green decks is Boros Reckoner.
Everything that failed the 'would I rather just draw a Reckoner?' test went to make space.

Quick and nasty sideboard guide:

Revelation Control decks
Out: 4 Shock, 2 Flames of the Firebrand
IN: 1 Hammer of Purphorous, 1 Mutavault, 4 Skullcrack

Notes: taking out low impact burn is correct, but it weakens Phoenix and Young Pyromancer. I was finding the Burning Earth package a little underwhelming, especially with UW being more popular than Esper online. Skullcrack helps here, powering up your creatures and acting as a blowout against their best spell. Even the threat of it forces them to play differently.

Red or Green Aggro decks
OUT: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler
IN: 4 Boros Reckoner, 3 Mizzium Mortars, 1 Mutavault

Notes: as has been the hallmark of the clan for a whole, we've got the transformational sideboard package in place. Reckoner is just the best card against these decks, so we've got the full four. Mortars supplements
your strategy nicely with either spot removal early or a win-condition late. The Mutavault may seem like an odd choice, but I find that it's SO important to hit your land drops early; stumbling is frequently fatal. Manlands are often how you'll win after aggressively 1-for-1 trading with your opponent. Try to hold Young Pyromancer until you can pair it with a spell.

Vs. other decks is more of a play by ear approach. For example, you'll want Mortars and Act of Treason against Dega (for their Demons and Barons). Ill give more detailed advice when I can get another day of heavy testing in; you say see how much one day changed things!

[NorthRaptor]

The only matchup I have difficulty with (usually lose 1-2) is to GW, and I mostly concede that it is our closest matchup to an auto-loss.

GW is by no means an auto-loss, or even close to that. Consider playing more burn so that you can hit their creatures. Less than 4 Magma Jet seems like a mistake.

I'm mostly having trouble after sideboard vs unflinching courage.

I like the Young Pyromaster included in the build Z.

[Link]

id be interested in your plan for the G/W aggro decks. I know you've posted them before, but unflinching courage is such a beating since it seems harder to kill them with pyro red fast compared to devotion red, so they can afford to play a 1 or 2 drop then just wait for advent+courage. Just consider that a nut draw and be more consistent is the plan? Would you even bother with skullcracks?

[zemanjaski]

My plan for green aggro decks is listed.

You just need to 1-for-1 aggressively and find a hammer or Chandra. Strategically it's very easy. Playing it out is much harder since all they need to do is turn sideways. You're the control deck, so it doesn't actually matter how much life they gain ~ once you're ahead you kill them super fast. Just aggressively trade down, this makes their enchants and Boon Satyr way worse (if they can't suit up a guy it just trades with everything).

[Zooligan]

You just need to 1-for-1 aggressively and find a hammer or Chandra. Strategically it's very easy. Playing it out is much harder since all they need to do is turn sideways. You're the control deck, so it doesn't actually matter how much life they gain ~ once you're ahead you kill them super fast. Just aggressively trade down, this makes their enchants and Boon Satyr way worse (if they can't suit up a guy it just trades with everything).

All they need to do is suit up their Hexproof 1-drop Gladecover Scout. Can't remove it until you can overload Mortars. With Boon Satyr and Unflinching Courage on there you'll be toast by then. Until they get it suited up they'll keep you busy with Voice and that new lion.

[zemanjaski]

We're not talking about GW Hexproof, which isn't a real deck.

[Zooligan]

Oh. Sorry. Seemed real when it crushed me last week.

Maybe it's just not a real deck yet...

[Link]

it might seem powerful against you, but when he means "not a real deck" he means that in a diverse field or huge tournament, its not powerful enough to put up decent results.

Gladecover scout itself is pretty embarassing in standard

[zemanjaski]

Yeah. Like if you run into it and get wrecked by their nutdraw, that doesn't say anything about your deck. You just have to shrug and move on.

Did my notes on GW make sense Fate?

[Link]

Yeah, its been going better in testing now that you said "you're the control player" I used to think their late game was inevitable, but they have no ways to generate cards or CA besides dumb tricks

[zemanjaski]

Yeah. If you focus on inevitability, than their gaining 10+ life doesn't matter; eventually your horde of angry 3/3s deals a million damage. They have exactly 0 CA effects, outside of their guys being big. Yay for that.

[Zooligan]

Yeah. Like if you run into it and get wrecked by their nutdraw, that doesn't say anything about your deck. You just have to shrug and move on.

Yeah, I guess I don't really have that competition frame-of-reference. That's why byes are so important I suppose, the wonky get-lucky nut draw decks have been weeded out.

[Jack]

I'm assuming that, against Dega (which seems to be one of the more popular midrange variants), you want to pull your shocks and flames for Hammer, Threatens and Mutavault. Am I on the right track here?

Hammer also seems good in many matchups. I'm not really sure when it's appropriate to cut it from the mb (I rarely do this), when to bring in a second, or when to just leave it as a 1-off for game 2.

[dpaine88]

I'm not a big fan of it against a red aggro mirror usually as I want creature board position. Vs other aggro like GW, I like it as the games can go longer

[Valdarith]

I'm assuming that, against Dega (which seems to be one of the more popular midrange variants), you want to pull your shocks and flames for Hammer, Threatens and Mutavault. Am I on the right track here?

Hammer also seems good in many matchups. I'm not really sure when it's appropriate to cut it from the mb (I rarely do this), when to bring in a second, or when to just leave it as a 1-off for game 2.

Yep.

You definitely want Hammer in all control matchups to increase your threat density. Midrange depends on what your sideboard has.

[zemanjaski]

Hammer is effectively game if they can't immediately answer it.

[Valdarith]

Of course if you're playing any of my opponents he'll have three Detention Spheres in his hand to answer all your stuff.

[Zooligan]

Of course if you're playing any of my opponents he'll have three Detention Spheres in his hand to answer all your stuff.

See, that's what i said about Burning Earth in the Devotion Red thread. Esper D-Sphered all my good non-creature shit!

[Jack]

Hammer is effectively game if they can't immediately answer it.

So are there any matchups where you just leave one in, or is it a card where you really want to see it in the matchups where it's relevant?

[zemanjaski]

I usually only have the single vs. other aggro decks since:
- if you draw it early you can sculpt a game plan around it
- drawing two is death in such an aggressive matchup
- it's an overwhelming win-con going late; it's better than a 4th Chandra would be.

I have two vs. any midrange or control deck since it murks them.