[Primer] RDW

[Str1fe5]

So after hearing everyone's thoughts, including Zem's and Alex's livestream (at leas the first 30 minutes of which the recorded video would play for me), I've come up with the following list to try a Red Devotion Wins style build:

[deck]Red Devotion Wins[/deck]

Thoughts?

I may steal this for FNM. Seeing the burning earth made me think about the fact the 3 color decks had a tendency to just die because their mana made them too slow. What decks do you believe you will be using seismic stomp in? midrange only? or maybe control as well to finish them after they tap out for elspeth.

Yeah the big reason is Elspeth. But I'm also thinking it could have some utility against midrange strategies as well. B/W/R and Monster Mash are probably going to be taking a beating the first 3-4 turns and then stabilize with a big dude. Particularly against Monster Mash, Seismic Stomp could alpha strike through their entire ground force.

I'm not exactly sure what to board out yet, but I'm thinking:

Against other weenie strategies:
+ 4 Frostburn Weird
+ 2 Mizzium Mortars
+ 2 Chandra, Pyromaster *MAYBE*

Against mid-range creature
strategies (G/R Monsters, Nayas, Junds, G/W builds with accelerators instead of 2/1s on their curve)
+ 2 Mizzium Mortars
+ 2 Chandra, Pyromaster
+ 3 Act of Treason
+ 2 Seismic Stomp *MAYBE*

Against Tap-Out Control strategies:
+ 2 Chandra, Pyromaster
+ 2 Seismic Stomp
+ 1 Hammer of Purphoros
+ 1 Mutavault

[Narcasus]

I could see siding in the additional mutavault against any midrange that runs red for more threats after a boardwipe. Otherwise i think i would agree with everything else. I think chandra against other weenies would be right as well, since we are basically switching to more control.

[toddulent]

I wish I had Chandras and Mutavaults. Not having them is seriously limiting my ability to play what I want.

[Narcasus]

Yea, i ended up buying most possible cards for red, knowing that is what i wanted to play early. Turned out to be a good idea with these price jumps.

[Elricity]

With this much devotion, I really think having a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a better plan if you're boarding it alongside Chandra. Being able to have the chance to have enough mana to use her 0 the turn you play her and then being able to easily play both cards you draw the following turns would just be more crushing to midrange/control than a chance of seeing "creature" # 32 1/4.

I see the temptation of bringing in Chandra against weenie but I think it's too slow and unnecessary since your other cards crush them later game already. You might just want to leave some number of cacklers in to trade with their x/1's. Alternatively, you could pull a couple Mogis since you're probably forced to trade with them for a little while which makes him less impressive.

Although, it begs the question that if you're bringing Chandra in on all matches, why isn't she mainboard?

[Str1fe5]

With this much devotion, I really think having a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a better plan if you're boarding it alongside Chandra. Being able to have the chance to have enough mana to use her 0 the turn you play her and then being able to easily play both cards you draw the following turns would just be more crushing to midrange/control than a chance of seeing "creature" # 32 1/4.

I see the temptation of bringing in Chandra against weenie but I think it's too slow and unnecessary since your other cards crush them later game already. You might just want to leave some number of cacklers in to trade with their x/1's. Alternatively, you could pull a couple Mogis since you're probably forced to trade with them for a little while
which makes him less impressive.

Although, it begs the question that if you're bringing Chandra in on all matches, why isn't she mainboard?

you know that's a fair point. I think the 75 is right but it might be correct to switch the main board Hammer for the Chandra. The other option is cutting the God but I want to try it as a singleton for a little while as I like the idea of having that kind of reach. He may just end up being a win more card in the long run though.

[Valdarith]

So after hearing everyone's thoughts, including Zem's and Alex's livestream (at leas the first 30 minutes of which the recorded video would play for me), I've come up with the following list to try a Red Devotion Wins style build:

[deck]Red Devotion Wins[/deck]

Thoughts?

It looks really good. A little
heavy in the 3 slot, but good.

[Elricity]

Thinking about Chandra, I suppose the answer could be that although you know she's better than some card in your deck every game, if the card you "board" out before game one is more powerful than the difference of Chandra and your bad card, then it might not be worth the risk.

If any deck is going to make Purphoros work, it's this one. Keep the hammer though. Hasting reckoners, fanatics, and gods are a bit intimidating no matter the deck.

[Kyarie]

Okay, first post here. I have been playing aggro red variants for the last season and since Fanatic of Mogis was spoiled I've been wanting to do a red devotion list maximizing his potential.

I like what Str1fe5 has put together but I don't have all that yet and was looking through my cards and came across Rageblood Shaman. This is a three drop that gives 2 red devotion and all minotaurs get +1/+1 and trample. Since we are playing with 4 Boros Reckoners and 4 Fanatic of Mogis - both minotaurs, if 4 are played in the three slot, each shaman has 11 creatures it can buff. Buffing the Reckoners seems like it would have decent utility as they are already awesome and trample on the fanatic may let you get damage through after the etb trigger instead of dying to a 1 or 2 drop chump.

Is it worth losing some amount of Chandra's Phoenixes for this? Is it too slow? Has the good idea faery infected me?

[zemanjaski]

Hey redbro.

I think Phoenix is better in the matchups where you can have problems (control); Rageblood will be better in matchups you're already good in; so depending on your expected opposition you can make an informed decision. Right now though, the metagame is esper and red aggro:
- Phoenix is better against esper
- devotion red with phoenix is hugely favoured against AIR and even to very slightly favoured against PyroRed
So I think the Phoenix version is better; but if card availability is a problem, play what you've got available. You've identified a very good choice!

[Lightning_Dolt]

Wow, lots of action since last night...

@ ACM Without Firedrinkers, you can either try Foundry Street Denizen, or omit them until they arrive.

@ Yarpus I firmly believe it is correct to put the more aggressive creature in the main to punish bad G1 keeps against people who don't put you on red.

@ Strife Shred-Freak acted as Ash Zealot 5-8 when we tested it last year. It isn't great, but the haste is nice and we want things with RR. In RDW mirrors, I usually side FFS out vs the mirror anyway. Your version of the deck looks very good. I'm still not a fan of Purphoros yet, but we'll have to see if that changes.

@ Toddulent I don't like 4x Loyalist in the main. It's a 1/1, that you realistically want to drop on T3.

@ Narcassus Thanks for the feedback. Deck is still raw and will need adjustment. Please help us!

@ Elricity The Shrine is interesting, however, if any of your T1 or T2 plays dies, you can't use
it for T3 Reckoner, which makes me worry. We also don't have mana dumps, so I'm not sure what to use the mana on.


At the risk of losing all credibility... is anyone willing to test Mindsparker over Boros Reckoner so we can get out Mutavaults back?

Also, deck names?

Red Bulls
Mad Cows
Cowboys
Bullshit
Sacred Cows

Ideas?

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd rather play mutavault and reckoner in the same deck and just deal with it.

But you can keep your credibility. It's not the worst idea ever and it at least shows your thinking creatively.

I welcome going deep when searching for innovative solutions to niche quandaries.

[Yarpus]

I'd probably play Frostburns main as they are much better against Aggro while still being decent in control games.
Shred Freaks are awesome against Control but suck against Aggggro.
Also, I'd try to sqeueeze in 2 Chandras. They give you non-creature devotion after all.

[amcfvieira]

Test this afternoon with a friend and I'm very impressed with Fanatic of Mogis. In a long battle against Esper he made 2x Crypt Incursion for a total of 48 life gain and in a fewer turns I could recover and win the game. I Had forgotten how fun is playing Chandra's Phoenix
Magma Jet is nice in Standard - Approved

[deck]Creatures (28)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak

Lands (22)
22 Mountain

Spells (10)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Sideboard (15)
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Burning Earth
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4
Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

[DarthStabber]

So I have been poking around with this list for a while, trying to keep my deck more consistent by focusing on haste, as opposed to BTE who's explosive but has risks with over extension and anti-synergy with ash zealot, and young pyromancer who demands more instants and sorceries than I want to run (there aren't enough good ones in comparison to good creatures). So basically I am forgoing some of explosivity for reliability. I do realize that BTE is a good card, but he's been uncomfortably swingy for me, and I would rather not have him dictate the other cards I run. Between advice from others and testing I am starting to get it honed, but as a new member here, I thought you guys might have some good input.
[deck]
creatures
4 [card]rakdos cackler
4 [card]firedrinker satyr
4 [card]ash zealot
4 [card]rakdos shred-freak
4 [card]firefist striker
4 [card]chandra's phoenix
3 [card]fanatic of mogis

artifacts
2
hammer of purphoros

instants
4 magma jet
4 lighting strike

lands
2 mutavault
21 mountain

sideboard
3 boros reckoner
3 flames of the firebrand
3 peak eruption
3 mizzium mortars
3 mindsparker
[/deck]

[Elricity]

@ Elricity The Shrine is interesting, however, if any of your T1 or T2 plays dies, you can't use it for T3 Reckoner, which makes me worry. We also don't have mana dumps, so I'm not sure what to use the mana on.

I'm only suggesting Nykthos as a replacement for the 2nd mutavault which can't cast T3 reckoner at all, although the possibility of using it to cast Reckoner isn't why I suggested it.

His deck actually has several mana dumps. It has Satyr, Frostburn and Purphoros directly, Hammer indirectly, and both Chandra and her phoenix set up scenarios where you have the opportunity of casting multiple spells a turn without card disadvantage. Devotion is only realistically going to net you an extra 1-4 mana at best in a real game so it's
not like you want to stuff volcanic geyser in to take advantage of it. But it does change Nykthos into "tap, play a RDW spell or activated ability: play a second one without paying its mana cost".

You don't need it but I think it does more than an additional mutavault in a 29 creature list. I tend to think multiple mutavault in play is kind of clunky though so take that for what it's worth.

[Alex]

Also, deck names?

Red Bulls
Mad Cows
Cowboys
Bullshit
Sacred Cows

Ideas?

After years of playing Diablo II, I could only ever consider "Secret Cow Level" as a deck name. I would register this deck name at any large event for maximum lulz.

[Khaospawn]

So after hearing everyone's thoughts, including Zem's and Alex's livestream (at leas the first 30 minutes of which the recorded video would play for me), I've come up with the following list to try a Red Devotion Wins style build:

[deck]Red Devotion Wins[/deck]

Thoughts?

I really like
your deck.

This is what I've been kicking around myself:

[deck=Khaos' Devotion Wins]

Creatures 21
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis

Good Stuff 4
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Burn 12
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

Land 23
3 Mutavault
20 Mountain

Sideboard 15
3 Burning Earth
1 Mutavault
3 Act of Treason
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Frostburn Weird[/deck]

I think your deck could probably be good without Purphoros and just ride out with a Chandra. Maybe even 2.

Which is something I considered myself - going to 2x Chandra. What I like about the deck is that it can apply early pressure to Control decks and decks that are stumbling. It can be fast, delivering a turn 4 kill. It can also play the long game by brickwalling Aggro decks and dealing lethal with a Mogis. It can outdraw with Chandra and it can sling Mountains with the Hammer, which also turns Mogis
into a quasi-Hellrider. I've upped my mana to support Chandras, but I think 2 may just be the best number.

The deck is also capable of turning into a "control deck" with the sideboard. There is a lot of room for Mortars and Act of Treason. I love it. I cram Frostburn weird into mine because I sub it in for some fo the 1-Drops when boarding so I can "play control." In a control match, I'd probably use them to replace Reckoner, since they come out faster and can attack into a Yoked Ox or kill a Blood Baron. As it is now, I replace the Shocks with the 3x Burning Earth and the 1X mutavault for the control match. But I like Frostburn in a lot matches anyway...

I'm rambling, but I find the sideboard capable of helping your deck morph into something better but overall, the main strategy is intact:

1)Build a presence.

2)Play Mogis.

3)Was damage lethal? Can you win with an attack? If not, repeat step 2. If yes, move on to step 4.

4) Win.

I like your tech with Seismic
Stomp. Who the fuck plays flying creatures anyway, besides Desecration Demon? Yea, that's what I thought.

[Khaospawn]

Sure are a lot of guests in this Primer.

[zemanjaski]

I updated my sig on mtgs

[Narcasus]

I can see a purpose for every card in there but the 4th mutavault. At 23 lands, you dont need more i would think. When do you bring that one in? While testing so far, being able to consistently swing for 4 on turn 2 with both zealots and shred-freak has been huge in creating pressure they have to answer or just die. Of course, the shocks are probably much better in opposing aggro decks. That may be more of a meta call.

[zemanjaski]

Shock is ALWAYS a meta call. It's a bad card unless its good haha.

The Mutavault comes in with his Burning Earth package.

[Khaospawn]

After some tinkering, I have this list:

[deck]

Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Fantic of Mogis

Good Stuff 3
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Burn 11
3 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

Land 22
1 Mutavault
21 Mountain
[/deck]

Dat Weird...so fucking good.

[zemanjaski]

If probably go 4 Mogis, 1 Chandra so you can never draw 2. Great deck.

[zemanjaski]

Do you even need Shock? You could have 4 Reckoner, 4 Weird/Phoenix and a 23rd land?

[Khaospawn]

Do you even need Shock? You could have 4 Reckoner, 4 Weird/Phoenix and a 23rd land?

I see what you're saying. And you're probably right. For FNM, I'd run 3 Shock in my deck because I know right now that my field is mainly in the 1-drop aggro camp. If I was going into an unknown meta, I'd probably pack just 2.

Reason why I like Shock so much is stupid. It's because of Blood Baron. Worst case scenario, I have to block it with an Ash Zealot or a First Striked-Reckoner. The cool thing is that I can Shock the Baron before First Strike damage so I can defeat that fucker. Shock can also kill those Precinct Captains that W/x players are forcing.

One cool thing is that Weird can kill a Baron, so he's my
ultimate back-up plan.

[dpaine88]

Oh my fuckin god...

Just got back from absolutely tearing my playtest group a new asshole. Chandra is a bitch.

Took the Devotion list Khaos posted(great job!) with my small tweaks and just went to town.... Naya Midrange, UW Control, RG Monster and some Mono-Red. Went like 18-3 on the night.

Deck is just insaaaaaaaaaane. Attacks from so many angles, topdecks well, defends well, attacks well.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandras Pheonix
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Fanatic of Mogis

3 Chandra

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

1 Hammer of Purph

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

[Khaospawn]

Oh my fuckin god...

Just got back from absolutely tearing my playtest group a new asshole. Chandra is a bitch.

Took the Devotion list Khaos posted(great job!) with my small tweaks and just went to town.... Naya Midrange, UW Control, RG Monster and some Mono-Red. Went like 18-3 on the night.

Deck is just insaaaaaaaaaane. Attacks from so many angles, topdecks well, defends well, attacks well.

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandras Pheonix
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Fanatic of Mogis

3 Chandra

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock

1 Hammer of Purph

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/DECK]

Guys, I think we have something here!

[Sasky]

I am bringing Zem's list down to fnm tonight, card for card. Any updates on it?

[deck]Creatures:20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:18
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:22
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard:15
1 Mutavault
2 Legion Loyalist
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Burning Earth[/deck]

[DerWille]

Nuwen's list and my experiences with a weaker red mirror match up got me thinking about a possible variant on Zman's Ashley the Pyromancer list with a black splash.

[deck]
Creatures (23)
Rakdos Cackler x4
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Ash Zealotx4
Young Pyromancer x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] x4
Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch x3

Spells (13)
Magma Jet x4
Lightning Strike x4
Dreadborex3
Hammer of Purphoros x2

Planeswalkers (2)
Chandra, Pyromaster x2

Land (22)
Blood Crypt x4
Rakdos Guildgate x4
[card]Swamp[/card:
1gdx12gt]x2
Mountainx10
Mutavaultx2
[/deck]

I'm just thinking out loud with this. The black splash is mainly for Dreadborewhich should hopefully help get rid of Boros Reckoners in red mirror while also killing Jace, Elspeth, and Ashiok against control decks. Dreadborealso synergizes with Young Pyromancer and gives a token out. Exava seems like a solid curve topper or even as a top deck. A 4/4 first strike with haste seems solid enough.

Is the mana too greedy? It's 18 [mana]R[/mana] and 10 [mana]B[/mana] sources. I felt that cutting too many Mutavaults might make the control match up significantly weaker. Also, 2 lolhammers is my preference, I can see someone running 1.

Another variant for this is to replace [card]Young Pyromancer[/
card] with Rakdos Shred-Freak and have a strong haste element to the list.

Sideboard wise, hell if I know.

[Khaospawn]

Blah blah blah Brad Nelson.

I'd tap dat.

For realz.

[Khaospawn]

The bloody hell, Sasky? You edited that decklist??

[zemanjaski]

I don't get Precinct Captain. They're fucking giving you a way to get full value from Shock. That's so dumb. Gerry Thompson is an idiot.

[Sasky]

Yeah cos super gay alex was going "stop posting decklists!"

[Khaospawn]

Now that post looks like I want to hump Brad Nelson.

Bad form, man. Bad form.

[Sasky]

It's the original post now that Alex moved it.

[Khaospawn]

I don't get Precinct Captain. They're fucking giving you a way to get full value from Shock. That's so dumb. Gerry Thompson is an idiot.

Lolz. I know!

[Sasky]

Now that post looks like I want to hump Brad Nelson.

Bad form, man. Bad form.

Humping Brad Nelson is perfectly fine when done safely.

[Sasky]

But seriously if there was an update to the list lemme know! I have not touched sligh at all this standard. I am giving Zem my 100% trust.

[Khaospawn]

It's the original post now that Alex moved it.

Dammit, Sasky. You're lucky you're cool.