[Primer] RDW

[warwizard87]

Question for you all, when you know they are running anger in big boros and assuming you are playing the red devotion deck listen above, how many creatures do you put out? i normally am happy if i have 4 damage a turn threatening, but thats obviously giving him a 2 for 1. early game i feel this is okay if i can get 2 swings from each before the anger.

.

I feel most comfortable with 4-6 damage if I know they have sweepers, 4 sometimes dosnt feel like a fast enough clock though.

[Elricity]

Question for you all, when you know they are running anger in big boros and assuming you are playing the red devotion deck listen above, how many creatures do you put out? i normally am happy if i have 4 damage a turn threatening, but thats obviously giving him a 2 for 1. early game i feel this is okay if i can get 2 swings from each before the anger..

You are going to get 2 for 1'd with any deck with sweepers so you just plan around it. You should immediately have hammers (and possibly mutavault but I suspect it your mana can't support it) against any deck with sweepers so you can threaten attacking for 6 right after a sweep.

Other than that, your life total doesn't matter so don't block if they're leaving themselves open to attack.

[Verseau]

What do you guys think about this deck ? Help me please, thanks

[DECK] RDW
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Fanatic of Mogis

2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Lightning Strikes
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet

22 Mountain [/DECK]

[Alex]

Curve seems too high for only 22 lands. You want 24 in a list like that, ESPECIALLY since you're playing Hammer of Purphoros.

[warwizard87]

What do you guys think about this deck ? Help me please, thanks

[DECK] RDW
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Fanatic of Mogis

2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Lightning Strikes
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet

22 Mountain [/DECK]

lose the god, its bad. no lies. go to full 4 fanatic and 4 magma jet cutting a combo of Chandra and mortars. also I don't like YP in this deck.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Curve seems too high for only 22 lands. You want 24 in a list like that, ESPECIALLY since you're playing Hammer of Purphoros.

I think 22 land is fine with 6 4 drops, especially since he doesn't have vault, which I can only assume is for budgetary reasons.

Can you explain what you are trying to do with this deck (ex why do you have no 1cc cards?) so we can better help you?

[warwizard87]

I was assuming with all the 2 drops and reckoner that devotion red is the most likely rout to go.

[Verseau]

Curve seems too high for only 22 lands. You want 24 in a list like that, ESPECIALLY since you're playing Hammer of Purphoros.

I think 22 land is fine with 6 4 drops, especially since he doesn't have vault, which I can only assume is for budgetary reasons.

Can you explain what you are trying to do with this deck (ex why do you have no 1cc cards?) so we can better help you?

i want to make a deck with lot of good CA,
and actually have mutavault playsets.
but because i like ash zealot and boros reckoner, i exclude mutavault

ash zealot = first strike, haste
nboros reckoner = don't need more to say, very good
young pyromancer = to get amazing CA with instant and sorcery
chandra's phoenix = same like young pyromancer
chandra pyromaster = CA engine definitely
hammer of purphoros = to convert flood into hasty golem
purphoros god = lot of devotion going on, profit from 2 damage per creature etb
fanatic of mogis = only 2, hopefully got a lof of devotion to finish game

well that's my reasoning

[Lightning_Dolt]

Curve seems too high for only 22 lands. You want 24 in a list like that, ESPECIALLY since you're playing Hammer of Purphoros.

I think 22 land is fine with 6 4 drops, especially since he doesn't have vault, which I can only assume is for budgetary reasons.

Can you explain what you are trying to do with this deck (ex why do you have no 1cc cards?) so we can better help you?

i want to make a
deck with lot of good CA,
and actually have mutavault playsets.
but because i like ash zealot and boros reckoner, i exclude mutavault

ash zealot = first strike, haste
boros reckoner = don't need more to say, very good
young pyromancer = to get amazing CA with instant and sorcery
chandra's phoenix = same like young pyromancer
chandra pyromaster = CA engine definitely
hammer of purphoros = to convert flood into hasty golem
purphoros god = lot of devotion going on, profit from 2 damage per creature etb
fanatic of mogis = only 2, hopefully got a lof of devotion to finish game

well that's my reasoning

Here's my opinion / advice.

If those are your goals, just play Z's Pyromancer Red. Devotion Red and Pyromancer Red are opposing ideas. Devotion wants you to have a lot of permanents, Young Pyro wants you to have a lot of spells. A hybrid of the two will be a bad version of both.

If you have a unknown meta, or a control heavy meta, Pyro Red is better. If you have a meta
where you expect a lot of aggro / red mirrors, Devotion Red is probably better. Everyone at my LGS is playing aggro right now, so I'm going to be playing Devotion Red tomorrow at FNM. The list is based on the SCGO list, but is cleaned up and has the embarrassing non-bos removed and has a much more consistent curve. That guys was seriously lucky to go all the way with a list that poorly constructed. I wish my opponents would mulligan to 4 in every match of the top 8...

The list is a few pages back (or in my sig if you're a clan member) if you are interested.

[warwizard87]

I'm stumped...what's non bos mean lol.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm stumped...what's non bos mean lol.

Non-combos. Anti-synergy.

Example: Playing Burning-Tree Emissary and Ash Zealot in the same deck with only 5 BTE targets, when it is accepted that 8+ is standard.

[zemanjaski]

JS also has a real manabase.

[Lightning_Dolt]

JS also has a real manabase.

Yeah, 21 lands with that curve was super greedy. Guy was a luck sack. Any of the other red decks in the top 16 were better constructed.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I would still like to squeeze 2 mutavaults in... I'm going to put two foil mountains in for research purposes tomorrow, try to get an idea.

[zemanjaski]

I kinda think the winners deck was the best deck to run well with, since it has the most powerful interactions. But yeah, must be wicked nice to have no issue casting your spells.

[warwizard87]

I'm stumped...what's non bos mean lol.

Non-combos. Anti-synergy.

Example: Playing Burning-Tree Emissary and Ash Zealot in the same deck with only 5 BTE targets, when it is accepted that 8+ is standard.

Duh I herped when I should of derped.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm stumped...what's non bos mean lol.

Non-combos. Anti-synergy.

Example: Playing Burning-Tree Emissary and Ash Zealot in the same deck with only 5 BTE targets, when it is accepted that 8+ is standard.

Duh I herped when I should of derped.

No worries.

[Valdarith]

JS also has a real manabase.

Yeah, 21 lands with that curve was super greedy. Guy was a luck sack. Any of the other red decks in the top 16 were better constructed.

I wouldn't say SUPER greedy. I mean it's not like he was on the 20-land Hellrider list that was so popular last season. Plus he was running four Magma Jet which really helps dig for that fourth land.

[Yarpus]

Trying out new Red Devotion Wins brew at the moment and hell is it strong.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Planeswalkers:
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Lands:
1 Mutavault
22 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
1 Hammer of Purphoros[/deck]

I think I am overdoing maindeck Chandras in here - aggro matchup might get hurt because of that a bit. I was thinking -2 Chandra, +2 Shock?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Trying out new Red Devotion Wins brew at the moment and hell is it strong.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Planeswalkers:
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Lands:
1 Mutavault
22 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
1 Hammer of Purphoros[/deck]

I think I am overdoing maindeck Chandras in here - aggro matchup might get hurt because of that a bit. I was thinking -2 Chandra, +2 Shock?

WAAAYY too many Chandra's. 3 Max, I don't like more than two. They probably belong in the board. So does [card]
Frostburn Weird[/card]. I feel like everyone forgot Rakdos Shred-Freak existed. I did, but someone was goodly enough to remind me. It should be in the MB and FBW in the side.

[amcfvieira]

Hi, to everyone. I'm new here in this forum. I think I will play all this season Red decks and Zemanjaski told me that is the forum to be

I need a little help to configure my deck for tomorrow FNM. I'm thinking playing a sort of deck like "Johnny_Spike post in his post #460 (page 12), some improve of the list that win last SCG. My problem is that my Satyr's don't arrive yet. I want at least 8x drop one. I have almost the cards for mono red, only satyr's and the new dragon are missing and have only 2 Chandra's Pyromaster. Johnny, Zemanjaski or anyone can help me to construct a list on the curve and consistent. Thanks in advance.

I suggest the following
changes to make this deck less of a mess:


[deck]Creatures (28)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak

Lands (22)
22 Mountain

Spells (10)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Sideboard (15)
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Burning Earth
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

[Yarpus]

WAAAYY too many Chandra's. 3 Max, I don't like more than two. They probably belong in the board. So does Frostburn Weird. I feel like everyone forgot Rakdos Shred-Freak existed. I did, but someone was goodly enough to remind me. It should be in the MB and FBW in the side.

I thought so in terms of Chandras. I disagree about putting Weirds in SB. They are far more versatile, being able to both serve as strong defense against Aggro and swing for 4 against Control.
I do have 4 Shred Freaks in SB though.

[Khaospawn]

Yarpus, um...Chandra's Phoenix?

Edit : nevermind, its in there

[Str1fe5]

@JS:

I noticed the list you posted earlier included Rakdos Shred-Freak instead of either Burning-Tree Emissary or Firefist Striker. I understand that with the experiences of the players on this board BTE is only "worth" playing when you have at least 8 other 2 drops that can be cast off it. My experience has been a bit different, as I've found there to be a lot of utility pairing the BTE with just a Striker. Obviously your Devotion Red list is geared toward maximizing the utility of Fanatic of Mogis, but is a 2/1 haste for 2 really better than at least Striker right now? I can't imagine that extra red mana in the casting cost for devotion outweighs the versatility of the card. But then I haven't tested the Shred-Freak either.

Also, for the sideboard, I really haven't been getting a lot out of [card]Mizzium
Mortars[/card]. At the same time, I haven't seen anyone run the 0/4 Ox either, and I can see that being an important card to get rid of. What do we think of a split of Mortars and Acts of Treason in the board? Something like:

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

[toddulent]

I tested this last night against a Jund deck and it killed him on T6. I just need to get some feedback to make it as efficient as possible. I'm trying to decide if this or a BTE build would be better.

[deck]
Creatures (28)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Spells (10)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Land (23)
23 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Peak Eruption
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

My roommate has 1 Stormbreath Dragon that I can borrow. I really want to jam that in the side, but I also want to make sure I have a good toolbox for the meta.

[Link]

I tested this last night against a Jund deck and it killed him on T6. I just need to get some feedback to make it as efficient as possible. I'm trying to decide if this or a BTE build would be better.

[deck]
Creatures (28)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Spells (10)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Land (23)
23 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Peak Eruption
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

My roommate has 1 Stormbreath Dragon that I can borrow. I really want to jam that in the side, but I also want to make sure I have a good
toolbox for the meta.

I'd jam it in there. U/W is probably still going to be a big part of the metagame, especially early on when people are having trouble rounding up their cards (a few UW players I knew are scrounging up Watery Graves to make the switch to Esper).

You could cut a mountain and move a Hammer over to the main. Increases your T3 Hammer-> T4 Fanatic plays which is pretty huge for space.

You probably wont cast it on curve with 22 mountains, but just having it as an option that most U/W decks can't answer (and as a literal trump to the entire GW archetype) is worth it imo

Edit:
Wow I didnt check out the rest of your list >_>
Do you have access to Boros Reckoner? Hes the reason you can get away with not playing mutavaults in sligh atm. Gore-House chainwalker is also much better with hammer than legion loyalist, whose clock isnt that imposing and battalion is very narrow (and requires 3-cards on the table to get online).

Shred-Freak is fine over BTE. You
cant play BTE->Mogis in your list for some sweet damages or BTE->Hammer for hasty plays, but he's decent and his 1 toughness isnt that much of a liability yet.

so Id cut at least:
-4 Loyalist
+4 Gore-House Chainwalker

[toddulent]

I don't have access to Boros Reckoner at the moment. I'm working on it, though. I value your advice highly, so I'm going to make those changes. Plus, I miss GHC in there quite a bit. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Narcasus]

I've played quite a few games with Johnny's list and my agro and control matchups have been amazing, but my midrange have been dead 50% constantly. It always seems if i with the roll i win, if i lose, i lose. I feel changing the sideboard with 2 or 3 act of treason will let me take their turn 4 creature and kill them with it instead of it stalling me enough to stabilize. I'm not sure what to cut in place of it though.

I am thinking a mortar and cutting a shock while placing a hammer in the main to fit in 2 acts. Have you guys had the same issue with midrange?

[toddulent]

I played against Jund last night with the list I posted above. I didn't have a problem with it. If I had Hammers in the main he would have been toast a lot quicker.

[Str1fe5]

I've constantly had this problem with midrange which was why I moved on to Kibler once it came out. I really think Act of Treason is the superior card to Mortars for that reason. I don't know, we're going to be playing with the sideboards and tinkering pretty much weekly for a while here until we each figure it out. But to me I'd rather just steal your guy and kill you with him than remove him and still technically be a turn behind doing lethal anyway.

[Narcasus]

I've constantly had this problem with midrange which was why I moved on to Kibler once it came out. I really think Act of Treason is the superior card to Mortars for that reason. I don't know, we're going to be playing with the sideboards and tinkering pretty much weekly for a while here until we each figure it out. But to me I'd rather just steal your guy and kill you with him than remove him and still technically be a turn behind doing lethal anyway.

What kibler list are you referring to if i may ask?

[Elricity]

Shouldn't you run both?

Act doesn't belong mainboard yet since control is pushing on midrange pretty hard.

[Narcasus]

Shouldn't you run both?

Act doesn't belong mainboard yet since control is pushing on midrange pretty hard.

that what i was leaning towards, 3/2 split, im not sure which way is correct. or maybe find a way to get both to 3

[Str1fe5]

What kibler list are you referring to if i may ask?

The G/R list with mana accelerants and Hellrider and Thundermaw Hellkite. Then everyone started playing Desecration Demon and I boarded Deadly Recluse because I really didn't feel like getting cards to change right before the format ended...

Shouldn't you run both?

Act doesn't belong mainboard yet since control is pushing on midrange pretty hard.

I wouldn't run either mainboard. I'm personally leaning towards a 2/2 split in the sideboard but I don't like how that gives you less bullets against different
decks. That's why I'm also considering jamming 3 or 4 Acts in the board and eschewing Mortars entirely. My experience has been there are few situations against mid range when I want Mortars instead of Act anyway. So what else do you bring it in for? killing Barons vs Esper and Oxes for those that run it? I don't know I think in that situation I'd rather attack the control player from a different angle.

Of course, it's dilemma's like this which are why I'm dabbling with splashing black for Dreadbore and Thoughtseize and possibly even [card]Rakdos's Return[/card] (although that's probably off topic to discuss any further here).

[Str1fe5]

Also what are people thinking on the Shock vs. Magma Jet? My thinking is in a 22 land deck it helps avoid flooding, and that with fewer turn 1 plays you have to kill from different decks, I like the Jet more. But I've heard a lot of commentary the other way. Thoughts?

[Elricity]

You put mortars in the side to shore up the mirror match on the draw and have it be still somewhat useful in your other matches. If you didn't have to face the mirror, then sure, you would slam in 4 acts and call it a day.

That said, the split between them really depends on what your main deck looks like. If you're already running shock, you probably don't need sb mortars vs the mirror and you can straight swap shock for act against anything else. If you have 23-24 lands, mortars gets more tempting.

RDW probably wants 2 mortar/3 acts because it has other ways of defeating midrange in longer games. AIR wants 0 mortar, 4 acts because it really wants one in its opening hand to end the game by turn 4-5.

Edit:

Magma jet needs a couple turns to be good and belongs in a deck that is digging towards a curve. Shock wants to be in a deck that cares very little about crafting it's turn 3/4 draws because their deck is built
to already have lethal in its hand by then.

[zemanjaski]

Also what are people thinking on the Shock vs. Magma Jet? My thinking is in a 22 land deck it helps avoid flooding, and that with fewer turn 1 plays you have to kill from different decks, I like the Jet more. But I've heard a lot of commentary the other way. Thoughts?

If you're playing a variant that just wants to turn 4 or 5 someone, play Shock. If your deck plays a longer game, such that the cost of an extra 1 mana is not as pressing and so that you can actually start to see the benefit of scry 2; play magma jet.

[Str1fe5]

So after hearing everyone's thoughts, including Zem's and Alex's livestream (at leas the first 30 minutes of which the recorded video would play for me), I've come up with the following list to try a Red Devotion Wins style build:

[deck]Red Devotion Wins[/deck]

Thoughts?

[zemanjaski]

10/10 from me. I think that's the best Devotion Red list I've seen.

Also, brad Nelson, I know you read these forums. See how he gave me credit for helping? That's how you don't scumbag someone.

[Narcasus]

So after hearing everyone's thoughts, including Zem's and Alex's livestream (at leas the first 30 minutes of which the recorded video would play for me), I've come up with the following list to try a Red Devotion Wins style build:

[deck]Red Devotion Wins[/deck]

Thoughts?

I may steal this for FNM.
Seeing the burning earth gone made me think about the fact the 3 color decks had a tendency to just die because their mana made them too slow. What decks do you believe you will be using seismic stomp in? midrange only? or maybe control as well to finish them after they tap out for elspeth.

Edit: added a word.